From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #116 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, May 2 2000 Volume 03 : Number 116 Today's Subjects: ----------------- why can't we all get along..... ["Robert Hart" ] Cat Powerless, the worst Liz ever and sexy covers [Jorge Cooper ] caught in the act [Melissa Leigh ] Geez [Jason Long ] OFF: all this lame HOLE shit ["Chris Camboni" ] I promise that this is my last word on the "hole" subject. [Greg Bishop <] [none] ["Molly Magdalene" ] Leaving On A Jet Plain ["Molly Magdalene" ] RE: Leaving On A Jet Plain ["andy" ] new albums [Mike Marlatt ] RE: new albums ["andy" ] Re: new albums [AWeiss4338@aol.com] RE: new albums [Gerardo ] here's an idea... [Tunik21@aol.com] The Pentium III song [Gerardo ] Re: [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] (no subject) [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: new albums [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: new albums [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] HOLEPARTS [Gerardo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:08:33 PDT From: "Robert Hart" Subject: why can't we all get along..... OK, this whole Courtney Love squabble is harshing my buzz. I feel as if I'm in the midst of a lovers quarrel. Too much melodramatics. I suppose it might be entertaining, in a really black sense, but I think we've all had our share. That's my 33 cents...... Rob ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:09:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jorge Cooper Subject: Cat Powerless, the worst Liz ever and sexy covers 1)Have you ever felt that you were somewhere you shouldn't be? Well, that's how I felt at Thursday's Cat Power show. I like her Moon Pix CD and her music. But her live performances are neither live nor performances. The whole time I felt uncomortable, like I had stumbled into her closet, or worse, opened her underwear drawer. Why did I feel this way? She made me feel that way. She barely looked at the audience, sang with her body sideways. She also found a novel way to solve our discussion on do looks matter? Cat Power doesn't let you see what she looks like. She had her long hair draped over her face. She looked like Cousin It or Joey Ramone. This ultra-shy approach made the who experience unenjoyable. Because she had no command of the stage, people started talking and walking outsided. Chan seems like a nice person and she has a lot of talent. But she needs a manager to teach her some showmanship. 2) I couldn't help thinking, "Is this what Liz was like years ago?" Hey New Yorkers, did any of you see Cat Power open for Liz years ago at CBGB. Anyway, now that Liz is a confident performer, I thought it might be fun to look back. Who out there has seen the worst Liz show. And what did she do: voice crack, no eye contact, hide in her hair like Cat Power? 3) I had a dream in which Liz was staying at my mom's house for the weekend. What would Freud say? Anyway, I told Liz I hated WCSE cover because it looked "staged." She pondered my opinion and said okay. I did however get a long prolonged hug in the dream. Cool. But back to my non-existent question. What is the sexiest, most rock-n-roll album cover for a female and a male artist? I vote Exile in Guyville and London Calling from the Clash. Everytime I see those covers, it gives me a tingly feeling. 4) Let's hear from some of the Liz dinosaurs: Steve Kisko, Katie Brown, Hurricane Cindy, Janet, and what ever happened to Jill in Chicago? Jorge in Dallas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online and get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:34:12 PDT From: "steve kisko" Subject: "fear" Ken Lee says: >Steve Kisko brought this up, and since he doesn't >post due to fear of what other list members think >of him, I will do so in his place. I don't post because this stupid mailing list isn't something I feel like taking an active participation in anymore. What's the guyville address again? Seriously, I did the regrettable (actually, looking back, it's more like 'mortifying') obsessive-fandom thing for a few years, but now I've joined the ranks of the truly hip and gone underground. But while I'm here, can I just say that the Magdalene/HOLEPARTS back-and-forth is getting slightly tiresome? The only valid points concerning Courtney Love were made a week ago by Emma (thumbs-up on the 'pseudo-intellectual' observation) -- why drag it out? Dan, the poster you got for $6 usually goes for around $20 on Ebay. There was a Guyville one that must have ended at over $30 just the other day. You're a lucky guy. Anyone else going to see Elliott Smith in Philly May 13? Steve ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 03:20:56 -0400 From: Melissa Leigh Subject: caught in the act HA! HA! We made steve participate! ;) About the Chicago Nov96 article - kinda neat to have liz on the other side of the interview, but a bit unsatisfying since I have no interest in opera. Of special interest "LP: In one of my songs ["Dance of the Seven Veils"], I turn it into this thing about the music industry. Jochanaan is the authority figure, and I am going to move beyond him because of my ability or talent musically, which is a parallel of her dancing. Salome dances to move beyond her obstacle and get what she wants; I too, use what I know how to use, which is a little bit exploitative, to get what I want. I have always seen Salome as a metaphor for what women do, often, to get what they want -- seduce the man of power and use him against himself." For me this brings into question what part is the music Liz wants to use and what part is the seduction. In the past Liz flaunted her sexuality and I would view that as part of it, but now I speculate about the recent studio sounds of WCSE and the statement about the "third album being for everybody." I wonder what that makes the fourth album. - ---melissa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 03:29:50 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Geez I really hate to have to ask this, but could everyone lighten up a little? I just finished reading the messages from the past day or so and got a headache in the process. I know I did contribute to the Courtney Love thread myself, but it's now wandering further and further from constructive discussion and debate to something much less pleasant. I don't mind if people continue to respond to this thread, but do try to be a little more respectful when doing so. Also, please do not send posts typed in all caps to the list. Online, all caps is considered the equivalent of shouting and constitutes poor netiquette. Also, it's just a pain in the ass to read. Do try to be a little more considerate, please. If you can't make a point without shouting it, chances are you don't have much of a point anyway. On the bright side, I was very happy to see both Melissa and Jorge post. Always good to hear from you two! Does anyone know where Ruthie's been? She's been MIA for quite a while now and I've been wondering how she's doing. It was also good to hear from Steve Kisko, although I wish he felt differently about this list than he now does.... Bedtime, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:24:02 EDT From: "Chris Camboni" Subject: OFF: all this lame HOLE shit >all she has had done is her nose and her breasts. and then she has had face >peels, but those are very common with all celebs. it isnt a form of plastic >surgery Alright, first off I think this should move to the Hole mailing list. I love Hole (not so much Celebrity Skin, but I've honestly never sat down and listened to it), but this isn't Hole's nor Courtney's mailing list... so drop it. Oh, and I don't care how common that shit is- you're still fake if you get a boob job, a nose job and face peels. It just shows how fucking fixated our society is on looks. Chris ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:07:32 -0500 From: "Jaimee Kudrle" Subject: "Malibu" barbie If you want to label someone as a really great artist, then you are going to look at their life, what made them "great." I understand, to a degree, the idea that actions really don't have anything to do with music. But they do. Her life experiences influenced what she writes about. The same is true for any type artist in history (painter, poet, writer, musician). i.e. Liz Phair. I don't have to explain how different WCSE is from EIG and the changes in her life which brought about the change in her music. I have a certain respect for Liz. So...if she was going around wearing PETA t-shirts and singing about vegetarianism, then a year or two later she ditched it all and we were seeing pictures of her biting into a big red steak, I'd be like hmm...what the hell is she doing? She loses credibility I guess. Maybe it shouldn't have an impact on her music, but it does to me. EVEN IF SHE WAS ON WHAT EVER SORT OF DRUG, that doesn't automatically excuse anyone's behavior. You don't go shoot up, get drunk, or high or whatever, and then murder/rape/beat/what have you/ someone and say "well, I don't remember that, so can we just let it slide?" - -Jaimee np: "Blood Keeper" PS. If anyone cares...on www.nbci.com, there was a link that said 'All's Phair in Love and War', with a picture of WCSE and a link to watch the Polyester Bride video. I think it's gone now, but I thought it was kinda cool, even though I was disappointed there was no article or new album info. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 06:52:27 -0700 From: Greg Bishop Subject: I promise that this is my last word on the "hole" subject. >exactly. the guy from smashing pumpkins said this. too bad the guy from >smashing pumkins is a credit whore. Sort of like Courtney Love. Once again, I repeat that she rocks, but she should stick to music. >his album bombed, and hole's didnt, Compared to the last one it did. >course he had to take credit for that. truth is, he was only present during >12 days of the 4 years it took hole to write celebrity skin. and the best >songs have nothing to do with him. and the girl that courtney punched >deserved it. i was at this show. she was wearing a courtney killed kurt >t-shirt, and was yelling obscenities at courtney. when courtney went into the >crowd she was attacked, SO, she attacked back. everyone was cheering her on >btw, cus everyone knows how much the CKK bitch deserved it. You can tell a lot about a person by the heroes they pick. Greg. PS Who has the godlike omnipotence to determine which songs are the "best" ones? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 11:08:07 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: [none] >wanna quiz me? it was at Q101's Jamboree '99, and Hole was just one of >the >bands of the lineup. I was at this show. It took place on May 22 >of last >year. I wouldnt have missed it for the world Oh just quit, you didn't prove anything with that. >she never endorsed shit full-minded. she was high on HEROIN the entire > >time. Why does that not seem like a logical excuse. I mean it's not like a give a fuck anymore. It's not like i lived my life about what the junkie whore was singing about,i just think it's bullshit that's all. >Did you get it this time? do you need any further explanations, >because im >here to help! No, Charter is here to help, you're here to show people what an unimaginably dumb bitch you can be. M "I'm just a pretty boy - I'm not supposed to fuck a girl." ~Jonathan Davis~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:02:44 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: Leaving On A Jet Plain Okay this is really annoying me. Who originally did "Leaving On A Jet Plain"? And also did Liz cover a Police song or was i dreaming? M "I'm just a pretty boy - I'm not supposed to fuck a girl." ~Jonathan Davis~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 14:29:20 -0400 From: "andy" Subject: RE: Leaving On A Jet Plain > > Okay this is really annoying me. Who originally did "Leaving On A Jet > Plain"? > Leaving on a Jet Plane was written and performed by John Denver and then Peter, Paul and Mary covered it. andy np stereolab - perversion ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:07:48 -0400 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: new albums #1. Bought the new Tracy Bonham album in Toronto last week. Finally got to listen to it last night and let me say, HOLY SHIT! Best new album I've bought in a while that would fall into the "liz-like' genre. I was a little worried that a sophmore jinx might set in as the breakout album was amazing. This new is really good, if not even a little better and refined than "Burdens..". GET IT! #2 Veruca Salt. I was meaning to comment on this. I saw the new video on MTV2 a couple of weeks ago. It think it's pretty fair to say that Nina Gordon was the brains behind Veruca Salt lyrics. If I recall correctly, the chorus went something like this, "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.......Yeah, Yeah, Yeah". Way to go Louise!!!!!!! 3 years of writing and all you can come up with is "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah". It's like she went to the Lenny Kravitz school of useless lyrics for your latest album. Louise also had some other ripped off lines and rifts to go with it. I considered myself a very big Veruca fan. I'd seen them live, front row, new every album inside out and still listen to American Thighs. I'm not even going to bother buying this one. I'll wait for Nina Gordon. "Later y'all. We'll see you again, no doubt" D.J. Matthews. Mike Marlatt Investment Advisor NESBITT BURNS Tel: 443-1622 Fax:443-1524 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:22:13 -0400 From: "andy" Subject: RE: new albums > I considered myself a very big Veruca fan. I'd seen them live, > front row, new > every album inside out and still listen to American Thighs. I'm not even > going to bother buying this one. I'll wait for Nina Gordon. any word on the Nina Gordon solo album? I have been waiting for this one to come out for a while now. When I first saw those Magnolia previews a while back I mistook Aimee Mann for Nina Gordon and I thought maybe Nina's solo album was finally coming out........but it wasn't andy np - stereolab - mellotron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:47:08 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: new albums It sounds like Louise Post takes herself a little too seriously on the single Born Entertainer, if she's writing lines like "yeah yeah yeah, way to go Louise". I hope I'm worng, still want to buy the album, but oh boy, that song . Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:23:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: RE: new albums <> Go to http://ninagordon.virtualave.net/ man, you're going to be suprised. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:24:48 EDT From: Tunik21@aol.com Subject: here's an idea... So I cannot say this is an original idea, but I thought it might be fun. So this band I like guster just made their 1st music video and is planning a bug Carson daily day ion the near future to get the video on MTV's total request life. What if we did that with some Liz videos just for fun. Her birthday would have been a good day but any day is a good day. Who knows if we publicize it enough it may work. Let me know what you all think Erica ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 17:29:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: The Pentium III song I found this weird song in napster Liz Phair - The Peintium III song, i couldn't get it due to a disconnection, but this guy had this song along with other unreleased songs like Russian Girl, You have no idea, etc. We know when is nina's new album coming out, now, where is evan dando?!! Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:05:05 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: In a message dated 5/1/00 11:10:52 AM Central Daylight Time, m_l_magdalene@hotmail.com writes: << Oh just quit, you didn't prove anything with that. >> ok fine. I have pictueres of this show. would you like for me to scan them for you? im more than willing. You can compare my pictures with the backgrounds from the show that you are talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:57:12 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: (no subject) - --part1_13.4ab18ef.263fac18_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_13.4ab18ef.263fac18_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Full-name: HOLEPARTS Message-ID: <65.3af60ee.263fabdb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:56:11 EDT Subject: Re: To: m_l_magdalene@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 In a message dated 5/1/00 11:10:52 AM Central Daylight Time, m_l_magdalene@hotmail.com writes: << No, Charter is here to help, you're here to show people what an unimaginably dumb bitch you can be. >> im a bitch because hole is my favorite band? im sorry, but im only defending a band that pretty much saved my life from a really, really bad ordeal that i had to go thru, ok? i dont like it when people have crap to say about courtney, when they really dont have anything to base any of it on. some people just hear things secondhandedly, do no check ups on it, and assume its true. besides the whole courtney thing- just listen to the music. It really is great. I never tried to start a fight with you, maybe things are interpretted as harsh online, bus seriously, i have nothing against you. Im just defending a band who's music has really done a lot for me. We have more in common (with liz and all) than we uncommon. i dont think (im hoping) that anyone else on the list has taken my liking for hole personally, so maybe its just you, but nevertheless, i really dont want people i dont know hating me for really stupid things. - --part1_13.4ab18ef.263fac18_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:02:06 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: new albums In a message dated 5/1/00 2:09:44 PM Central Daylight Time, Mike.Marlatt@nbpcd.com writes: << #2 Veruca Salt. I was meaning to comment on this. I saw the new video on MTV2 a couple of weeks ago. It think it's pretty fair to say that Nina Gordon was the brains behind Veruca Salt lyrics. If I recall correctly, the chorus went something like this, "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah.......Yeah, Yeah, Yeah". Way to go Louise!!!!!!! 3 years of writing and all you can come up with is "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah". It's like she went to the Lenny Kravitz school of useless lyrics for your latest album. Louise also had some other ripped off lines and rifts to go with it. I considered myself a very big Veruca fan. I'd seen them live, front row, new every album inside out and still listen to American Thighs. I'm not even going to bother buying this one. I'll wait for Nina Gordon. >> if u r a really big vs fan i think you should buy this album. the new single is really bad, but it was one of those "required" record company songs, ya know? im not the biggest VS fan, but im on a VS list and everyone there talks about how the single sucks but how the rest of the album (it has been released on vinyl) is really, really good, and close to the best veruca has ever released. ive heard that the new VS is actually better than the old, and that the lyrics are really great and truthful. the new nina is supposed to be really good too, but it is pop. i guess there are some sorta rock inspired songs, but from what ive heard, its Jewel type pop. Seriously. Its really polished tho, so if you like that kind of music go buy the nina album. if you like rock go buy VS. or if ure like me go buy both. lol ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:02:43 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: new albums In a message dated 5/1/00 2:23:21 PM Central Daylight Time, adhooker@syr.edu writes: << any word on the Nina Gordon solo album? I have been waiting for this one to come out for a while now. When I first saw those Magnolia previews a while back I mistook Aimee Mann for Nina Gordon and I thought maybe Nina's solo album was finally coming out........but it wasn't >> its coming out on june 27th ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:57:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: HOLEPARTS hello HOLEPARTS, how are you? Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #116 ************************************