From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #62 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Liz Phair on 120 Minutes w/ Lewis Largent ["Dennis J. Kim" ] 32 "musical" flavors ["Morrise, Jason" ] it's cold out there...and rough ["Dana Polachowski" ] Re: Liz producer [Miz Phair ] Lyricist vs. songwriter (me confused) [Easter ] me first! [Miz Phair ] strange loop loop [Miz Phair ] The Poll is Still Open! [Miz Phair ] guess what? another Mesmerizing update! [Kenneth Lee ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 01:54:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Dennis J. Kim" Subject: Liz Phair on 120 Minutes w/ Lewis Largent Here's a transcription of Liz Phair talking to Lewis Largent right after Exile in Guyville got the Village Voice album of the year award. I didn't get the first bit of the interview, the tape cut off: LL: ...village voice album of the year. you know the breeders and hole. is that even an issue for you or do you?... LP: i honestly, i don't think about it that much, i really don't. i don't think that it...i spent, that was mostly a decision a long time ago, i would read my press, and it was just, i was developing this enormous superego, you know like a panel of critics and judges sitting over my shoulder which made it almost impossible to really write anything new or you know write a song that wasn't industry based, you know like [singing] oh it's so hard to be here. you know and so i just stopped...i...i think i feel it most when i come in contact with people that are so aware of it and they freak out on me and they get that flush in their face and their eyes are popping out they're like "what's it like what's it like?" [pantomiming shaking] LL: You must get like pretty intense fan mail. LP: [eyes wide]...don't read it much! [laughing] i don't, i don't even i have to get...i have to write my grandmothers before i start writing fans. LL: but you read it? LP: sometimes i do...if it gets to me, i always read it. i keep a stack of it and i start reading through it. LL: if i was a 17 year old girl, i would be like "oh my god! you said everything that i wanted to say and couldn't say!" you would just be like, IT for me, and i would imagine we would have sort of that...or maybe... LP: that happens to me in like donut shops or something...people would come up and this one girl i remember she couldn't even speak to me, she was like shaking...[pantomiming] you know you just wanna be like "i'm you i'm you! you know it's like the same thing. that division between celebrity and human is so...that's funny. we create that and then we bitch about it. welcome to america. LL: Yeah i know. stick around for more conversation with liz and a live performance from her and her band as 120 minutes continues. [Commercials, for MTV's "Catwalk" (haha!) Soloflex, Totally 80s! (40 awesome songs on two cds or cassettes)] Bob Nastanovich and Stephen Malkmus: [looking incredulous] Hey i'm stephen malkmus and i'm bob nastanovich and we're pavement and you're watching a hundred and twenty minutes on mtv. Then they go on to talk about how she got started with Matador. Except the audio on the tape keeps dropping out. I'll try again later on. - --- dennis www4.ncsu.edu/~djkim2 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 02:27:25 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Liz Article in Inkblot Magazine I was reading the magazine in the subject line, www.inkblotmagazine.com, a review of Aimee Mann's Bachlor#2. At the bottom of the review they say 'if you like this..' EIG was one of the selections. So I went to it. It is very good, worth checking out. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 02:51:48 EST From: Bdhowell21@aol.com Subject: (no subject) 1.) The Liz album you'd play to convert someone? depends... if they were one of my friends thats more into emo/punk/indie type music, id go with exile. if it was someone with more mainstream music tastes itd be white chocolate... 2.) Does your answer change if the person is your mom? i dont think my mom would be a liz fan, regardless of what i played. 3.) What Liz song should be on your answering machine? i wouldnt put a liz song on my answering machine. 4.) What Liz song would you ask for if allowed to pick see the light. 5.) What one Liz song do you not need to hear again? the dogs of l.a. 6.) Who's your favorite movie actor of all-time? i dont really have one... deniro? 7.) Who's your fave movie actress of all-time? again, i dont know... 8.) Who's your fave songwriter? rivers cuomo and lennon/mccartney 9.) Favorite musician? oh man, i dont know... the lenon/mccartney team 10.) Favorite singer? well, i feel obligated to mention frank sinatra, but id probably go with rivers cuomo again. brian d. i am done with perfection. chasing her leaves me with nothing but pain. weezer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 02:53:10 EST From: Bdhowell21@aol.com Subject: on the topic of decent guys i happen to know for a fact that they exist. most of them are just busy getting screwed over by girls who dont deserve their time. admittedly, this is often their own fault for associating with such girls, but, even when their aim is true, chances are a girl has rendered them useless. brian d. i am done with perfection. chasing her leaves me with nothing but pain. weezer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:41:10 EST From: JLD4125269@aol.com Subject: Liz in NY If anyone would know.... When / why/how long did Liz live in New York for? I know she lived out west, but I just recently realized that she mentions "when I lived in New York..." in one of her interviews. I didn't realize she lived in NY..ever. Does anyone know about this? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 08:52:38 EST From: "Morgan Hartsell" Subject: Ooh!!!! Ooh!!!! Potential kick-ass New Thread!!!!! Hey ya'll- - What with all the talk concerning Liz looking for a producer, I would like ta hear who ya'll think would be good for Liz. My first choice would of course be.... Brad Wood!!!!!! But in lieu of that (let's say Liz is be interested in working with someone new), I wouldn't mind seeing her work with someone like Jon Brion or (*gasp*) Steve Albini. And on that note, amid all the talk of Liz "working without a producer", did anyone consider that maybe it was LIZ HERSELF in the producer's chair?!?!?!? That would be fine wit' me. Latuh!!!! Morgan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:28:55 -0500 From: valerieb@mindspring.com Subject: simple perhaps i'm simplistic, but why all this effort into judging other people for what they like? i enjoyed robert's analogy, and jase, i see where you took it personally, but i didn't feel he meant it that way. the reason there are so many different types of music is that there are different types of people who buy music. i like what i like, if you like it, that makes me happy since i can play what i like when you're around w/o you complaining. i know that most of us are here both for a love of liz (content!) and a passion for music, but i'm certainly not going to waste my time arguing with you about how your music sucks and mine is fabulous. if you dig christina ag-whatever, have fun. it's great to expose people to new music and broaden their horizons, but please respect individual tastes, whether they lean toward indie snob or whatever corporate radio feeds them. then again, if i went out on a date with a guy who told me he collected michael bolton bootlegs, i may have to reconsider! :) and chipko...standing people up is evil. if i had three wishes, i'd use one of them to send you a fabulous woman! voting in my primary today...strategically against george w., of course! you all get your asses out there and vote, too! valerie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Liz not at Phest JFB wrote: >>Im sorry to ask this again but, Will Liz Phair be attending this PhairFest. Like a guest speaker or such ?<< No Liz will not be there. This is just an informal gathering to honor Liz so-to-speak. It's a chance for us Liz phans to hang out for a weekend. That's all. Craig __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:06:54 -0600 From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: 32 "musical" flavors jase wrote: >Then why are you criticizing people and not just letting them enjoy what >they enjoy, sans comments like "thank goodness there are others on this list >who listen to a broad variety of musical flavors?" Just let people like what >they want to like, and feel free to do your own thing. There's no need to be >so critical. and robert defended: >jake isn't criticizing people's listening tastes, he's criticizing their lack of >manners. i think that all jake and myself are asking for is the same coutesy >that is extended when an artist like aimee mann or bic runga or whoever is >discussed. for the most part it is thoughtful and respectful. imagine that. > >Just my own opinion but sometimes the list just devolves into a "too hip for >the room contest". thanks, robert. I was and wasn't criticizing people's manners. what I wanted to get at is what robert has gotten into here, and this is something I figured jase would agree with considering his posts haranguing people for a) the alanis bashing episode, and b) the off-topic bashing episode. a lot of people on this list DO NOT fit into the category of what I would call a music snob, and lest you take this wrong, I would define that as someone who feels the need to complain about (read: bash) music that they don't like (typically popular music). however, there seem to be enough people who do, and they tend to be the ones who speak up. the rest of us are sitting back "[letting] people like what they want to like." I was not criticizing people for lacking a broad taste in music so much as I was criticizing people for not wanting "their" music to co-exist with the rest of the music. I sat back and peacefully read the drawn out discussions on aimee mann. I do kinda like her, but I have a hard time really getting into her. I had nothing to say about alanis. I don't feel it is necessary to attack an artist. and that is why I said "thank goodness there are others on this list who listen to a broad variety of musical flavors." sometimes I feel like I'm all alone out here (except maybe for craig and robert), scared to admit to any of my fellow liz fans that indeed, I enjoy listening to britney spears, backstreet boys, tool, metallica, nirvana, smashing pumpkins, dwight yoakam, shania twain, and our precious liz, among others. I know that someone who doesn't like them will speak up and tell me "they suck, god, how can you like liz AND britney spears?" my response: in 10 years, I will not remember the chorus to a single britney spears song, but I will be able to sing every lyric from start to finish on exile in guyville. fads come and fads go, but my few true loves will stay forever. I have many flings in my quest for true love, and some don't even last that long. sometimes, all my friends like them, sometimes none of them do, but what is important: I like them. so, to wrap up this sometimes wandering post, I just want to make it clear that it doesn't really matter to me what you like to listen to. I might laugh at it, be inspired by it, become interested in it, agree with it, but I can't take people who judge you by it. I like hearing people share their opinions, but I really don't enjoy reading their snotty comments. and, no, that is not aimed at any one person in particular, so cool off. jake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:40:51 -0800 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: it's cold out there...and rough re: this dissing-on-music thing.... i have to say that i don't really get the impression that people think their "too cool for the room." actually, i'm happy to hear about music i ordinarily wouldn't have a chance to hear about--keeping up with the latest is *hard work*!! this list makes it so much easier.... and it seems to me that most people who post have pretty wide-ranging tastes, which include *plenty* of more "mainstream" music. actually, i'd really like to hear more about obscure stuff.... i really love that bubblegum/pop distinction--that's just perfect. all great pop is actually pretty "smart." and it's *fun*--and there certainly isn't anything wrong with that. most people who can't stand top-40, and i am one of them, do so because it's just so f**ing STOOPID. and to further elaborate on jason's point, not only is there an incredible range of styles and sounds in "indie," but generally it's just as fun and groovy and joyful as any madonna dance tune. i don't know about you, but my brain can trip on an especially clever lyric while i'm shakin' my can. and i know i'm not the only one. and it's not about elitism. so, i don't think people are dissing on other people or even on their taste. it's just a matter of venting disgust with stupid music--and i honestly don't think there's anything wrong with that, either. moreover, i think most know the difference between popular-and-meritous and just plain bad and dumb. sorry, i know this comes off as elitist and snobby, but....life isn't very fair. (ba-dum-bump) dp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 12:47:20 EST From: KiTkAtE907@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #61 >> Besides, the indie/alternative/college/whatever genre is pretty wide-ranging<< I completely agree. Althought the genre of all the music i listen to is basically the same, each artist is totally different in their own way. Of couse I love Liz, but she has different qualities than lets say Juliana Hatfield, who I love so much. Same with Pavement, Yo La Tengo, Wilco etc. They're all different and it just happens to be that they're all great song-writers and muscians. I'm not completely against the whole pop scene, its just happens that most of the music I like isn't played on the radio. If a like a song, I like it and that is regardless of its label, genre or radio frequency. ~Kate~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:56:22 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: here's to variety Robert wrote: >What i made was an observation about the listening >habits of the list. I don't believe my musical tastes >are any more valid than yours or anyone else on the >list. i would say that my viewpoint is one that is >under-represented on the list. I don't look down on >others for not being the same way. i look down on >people when they totally margininalize one particular >type music of music and say that is of no value >whatsoever, be it top 40, indy, rap/metal. The only >value in a particular genre is what is placed there by >the listener. just because a particular type of music > doesn't float my boat doesn't mean it, to borrow a >term from most of the alanis debate, "sucks". I'm sorry to have misread both you and Jake, but to me, your posts came across as being as critical of people's taste as those who post about artists "sucking." And while I have little tolerance for that, such as the aforementioned Alanis debate, I also have next-to-none for those who appear to be bashing those whose taste isn't as wide-ranging as their own. As I said, let people like what they want to like -- either way -- and be respectful of it. There's no need for people to bash artists or each other's taste on this list. >i think that about says it. pretty much anytime any >artist with a modicum of commercial radio success is >mentioned on the list it is usually in a negative >context. jake isn't criticizing people's listening >tastes, he's criticizing their lack of manners. i >think that all jake and myself are asking for is the >same coutesy that is extended when an artist like >aimee mann or bic runga or whoever is discussed. for >the most part it is thoughtful and respectful. >imagine that. I have no problem with commercial success whatsoever -- to me, that in itself is no reason to dislike an artist. Hell, I'd be ecstatic if some of my favorites were able to crack the top 40, and I wouldn't think any less of them for it. I, myself, just don't find what's in the top 40 right now to be all that interesting. However, I'm not saying that those artists automatically suck -- there's a difference between not being able to appeciate an artist's work and talking about it honestly as opposed to knocking someone who happens to enjoy it or the artists themselves. For example, just because Tori Amos' music does little for me doesn't mean that it sucks or that her fans have lousy taste. I respect the fact that her music means a lot to them, although she doesn't do much for me personally; similarly, while I can't get enough of Michael Penn's new album, I do realize it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. Another example is the recent thread about Tracy Bonham. While I did say that I regretted buying her album, I did not intend to be dismissive of the taste of those who do enjoy it. I had bought it on the assumption that I would enjoy it because it was said to share some stylistic qualities with Liz's work -- a good sign that I would probably like it -- only to find that no real similarities existed, and what was there instead just didn't connect with me. I didn't, however, say that Tracy Bonham sucks or mean to trash her work. Also, I don't feel like there's anything wrong with expressing a negative opinion about an artist or band, as long as it's a serious argument and not just a means of bashing the artist or saying they or their fans suck. It's not impossible to be critical and respectful at the same time. Jake wrote: >I was and wasn't criticizing people's manners. what I wanted to get at >is what robert has gotten into here, and this is something I figured jase >would agree with considering his posts haranguing people for a) the alanis >bashing episode, and b) the off-topic bashing episode. a lot of people on >this list DO NOT fit into the category of what I would call a music snob, and >lest you take this wrong, I would define that as someone who feels the need to >complain about (read: bash) music that they don't like (typically popular >music). however, there seem to be enough people who do, and they tend to be >the ones who speak up. the rest of us are sitting back "[letting] people like >what they want to like." I was not criticizing people for lacking a broad >taste in music so much as I was criticizing people for not wanting "their" >music to co-exist with the rest of the music. Okay, now that I see we're really of the same view here, I absolutely do agree. I definitely have a problem with those who go out of their way to bash an artist, although I don't have any problems with people giving honest opinions or impressions when responding to a thread about an artist. I wish I hadn't misread your post in the first place, but to me, it came across as being somewhat critical. And I will admit, I felt that the part about not having a broad taste in music was at least somewhat aimed at me, because I do tend to discuss only a handful of artists who are all mostly of a certain type. I just wanted to feel like I could like what I want to without being criticized for not having enough variety. Although I still buy a fair amount of new music, I am purchasing less CDs that I used to, so I am fairly careful to buy things that I can be sure I will like. As a result, I'm a little less adventurous in my choices and stick mostly to artists I already know, rather than try to discover too many new ones. Maybe I'm not broadening my horizons as much as I should, but still, is there really anything all that wrong with that? Anyway, sorry if I haven't really explained this very well -- I feel I probably haven't. I may elaborate on this later, although probably not. For now, however, I'm back to struggling to meet deadlines.... Cheers, Jase NP: Kristin Hersh, _Sky Motel_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:06:19 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: Re: Liz producer > And on that note, amid all the talk of Liz "working > without a producer", did > anyone consider that maybe it was LIZ HERSELF in the > producer's chair?!?!?!? > That would be fine wit' me. > Me too. I don't think anyone gets a hold of Liz's vision quite like Liz. And judging from some stories I've read about her, she feels that way too. That's what makes Girlysounds so charming. Do it Liz!!! But I am intrigued by the Jon Brion talk... paige- ===== "I'm obsessed, I'm a wreck, I'm insane. Isn't that what you want me to say?" Liz Phair, "Blood Keeper" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:13:21 -0800 (PST) From: Easter Subject: Lyricist vs. songwriter (me confused) Craig responded in his poll: 8.) Who's your fave songwriter? This is kind of a two parter for me. Fav. lyricist = Jim Morrison and Scott Weiland, Fav songwriter = Liz and Tom Petty (there IS a difference) Sooo..help me Rhonda, I've always stumbled as to what's the difference between the two, then felt like a retard when I actually looked up the words in the dictionary. =\ lyricist = a writer of lyrics songwriter = a person who composes words or music or both esp. for popular songs This could make an interesting discussion, I dunno which way it could go when I'm still scratching my head. I've thought of myself as a songwriter once, but have never written music before in my life, so I guess I qualify as a lyricist, but that doesn't sound too good - to me at least. So fire away with your ideas/opinions/ramblings/etc. Katie ();) NP: Chantal Kreviazuk "Colour Moving and Still" ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "You've got a lucky face." - John Lennon __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:55:34 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: me first! Top 10 Liz songs: 1. Gunshy (A first for me... but I'm always rediscovering Exile) 2. Blood Keeper 3. Whip-Smart 4. Strange Loop 5. Supernova 6. Carnivore 7. Flower 8. Stratford-on-Guy 9. Don't Apologize 10. Baby Got Going Can't wait to see you alls. ===== "Seems like the small things are the only things I'll fight." Liz Phair, "Gunshy" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 18:48:55 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: strange loop loop Does anyone else think there's some kind of subliminal message at the end of Strange Loop? I always feel like I have to start the album over again after hearing the last chords of Strange Loop. I think there's a SPECIAL reason why that song has that name. It's, well, strange... :) I just feel like returning to the beginning. Anyone else feel this way or is it the usual Miz Phair head case syndrome? paige- NP: Never Said ===== "Seems like the small things are the only things I'll fight." Liz Phair, "Gunshy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 17:52:20 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: The Poll is Still Open! Hi all- Seeing it's Super Tuesday and all, I thought that we might actually have the day live up to its name by starting another rockin' poll! This one dedicated to Miz Liz. So, list your current Top 10 Liz songs. I, along with the firm of Price/Waterhouse, will assign points to each song - your No. 1 choice gets 10, the No. 10 choice gets 1 - and at the end o' the week, I'll tell you what our favorite songs are (if anyone still cares...) Ready, set, cast your vote for something that really matters... paige- ===== "Seems like the small things are the only things I'll fight." Liz Phair, "Gunshy" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:45:32 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: guess what? another Mesmerizing update! Hello everyone, I've added a few more articles that I have acquired, thanks to Paige: Details, July 1994, and Press & Sun Bulletin, August 27, 1998. I've also added a scan of Liz from "hUH" magazine (I believe), from the same photo shoot as the pictures in page023 and page055. For those who hate to search for the picture, it's sitting on the index page of my site (temporarily - i'll be returning the recent favorite in a few days). Enjoy! - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:03:27 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Katie Derdoski" Subject: Re: Fiona @ 9:30 She didn't do Angel????? At the Tidal concert she said that she was going to do that song at *every* show to prove her longevity in music. Plus, it''s a great song, I will be really disappointed if she doesn't sing it here - --Katie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:05:35 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Jorge Cooper Subject: Lurkers are sexy !! 1) I have enjoyed reading the digest the last week. Good stuff. 2) I have a few questions for anyone/fellow Lounge Axers at the Liz show a year ago. Do you remeber the talented opening singer, Sally Timms. I know she was with the Mekons. Is that band still around? Anyway, I picked up a 1999 CD called Sally's Twilight Laments For Lost Buckaroos. Sally has a powerful, angelic voice and she blew me away at the Lounge Ax that night. Her set included a couple of country-tinged ballads. Well, this CD is a collection of twangy Texas tunes and ballroom ballads. She pulls it off even though she's a Brit. How does she do that, Chipko? She even sings a song in Spanish ! Does anyone know what she's up to now? I met her at the show and she was so nice. And she and Liz both had glitter eye shadow that was very sexy. I think all girls should go glitter. 3) Speaking of Liz, I would love to see her cover the Replacements' Swingin' Party and the Smiths' This Charming Man. I like Craig's and Katie's Neil Young suggestions. I think Liz has a lot in common with Neil because they both do things their own unusual way and they don't let anyone tell them what to do, even us. 4) The misheard lyrics posts made me laugh but I have the all-time worst. For YEARS, I thought Mick and the Stones were singing the letters INJ instead of... duh...Angie. 5) I'm getting excited about going to Lizphest. I love Chicago. Thanks to Craig and Allison for setting it up. Katie Brown, are you going? I think we should give a prize to the person who comes up with the best Lizphest fantasy involving meeting Liz. I think mine would be hanging out with her at a small club as she works out the kinks for her new songs. And then we all get pizza. Does anyone have a meeting-Liz fantasy that you can...uh....print ?? 6) Speaking of dreams come true, Pollstar Paige, how about Liz in a Disney live action musical. I would vote for Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast. 7) All this talk of the Smiths, English Beat and Pixies makes me wish they were still around. 8) I used to be a big Springsteen fan. He's here in Texas next week. Does he still have it? I think someone on the list just saw him. How was he? Jorge in Dallas ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #62 ***********************************