From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #23 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, January 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 023 Today's Subjects: ----------------- aimee does liz! [Miz Phair ] Off-topicness and actual Liz Phair content [moe@lac2.gulliver.fr] First Post ["Aoife" ] just mirc-ing around [mikey c at yehaw ] Poll ["Jen Lott" ] liz in concert [tim bean ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #22 [KT072180@aol.com] Off Topic [jgay@nhpri.org] RE: help! need answers! does anyone know? ["Brian P. Falk" ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #22 [Ciel00@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V3 #22 [Mykayela@aol.com] Need sequencing help [Emil Breton ] this is not a topic ["overpavement" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:25:10 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: aimee does liz! As proof of the mutual admiration society between the two singer/songwriters so prevalent on this list, I present this link: http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/sonicnet.mtv/radio_sonicnet;sz=468x60;ord=607474924? Aimee has included Liz in the list of artists on her VH-1 radio station... paige- ===== Wanna hear Aimee and other cool people while you tool around the Net?
Listen to my LAUNCHcast station! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:31:50 +0100 From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Off-topicness and actual Liz Phair content I never understand people who complain about a particular subject being discussed. How hard is it to scroll down? About the title An Evening..., it's not bad imo. At least it's not "self-titled" or "volume 4". ;) Anyway I care much more about the songs than about the album's title. Jason: >Another thought, though: Is anyone else as concerned about all of these >mergers? We will have went from six major music corporations down to four, >who would virtually have total control over the market. This kind of >overconsolidation unsettles me somewhat.... Bah, they will end up with only people who sell like Britney Spears. It's probably selfish to think that as it means that bands have less money but I prefer bands who stay with small labels like KRS or start their own and stay free to do what they want. I like Sleater-Kinney for that. Robin: >My only hope is that the more consolidation that >happens (and it's inevitable) the more people involved with the music scenes >will begin DIY labels and not get caught up with the Big 6, er, 5, damn, 4 I agree. If I could listen to only one Liz Phair song, it would be Shattered. No question about that. One last thing: Jase, major props for the way you run this list. And to those who accuse you of being a dictator, I suggest they read again what you wrote on that which defines perfectly the difference between dictatorship and democracy: "What annoys me most is how some people -- mostly through private e-mail -- have accused me of being a dictator. That's not the case. I'm not the one telling people not to talk about certain things; I'm telling people not to tell people not to talk about certain things. There's a difference. I'm not trying to silence anyone, just to keep people from trying to silence others and taking away their right to talk about whatever they want to talk about." Moe "If the Goddess had not wanted us to scroll down, She would not have invented the PageDown key" Me ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 4:23:41 -0600 From: "Aoife" Subject: First Post Hi, This is my first post, and I may as well start off with my ten favourite albums, although, it looks like I won't be over lapping with many of you good folk...I have never heard of Aimee Mann, for starters. 1. "Desire" Bob Dylan, "Blonde on Blonde" Bob Dylan, "Bringing it all back home" Bob Dylan, and any other Dylan album, especially if recorded in the 60's or 70's 2. "WhiteChocolateSpaceEgg" Liz Phair ( and the other two, but especially this one...) 3. "Library of Congress recordings" Woody Guthrie 4. "Midnite Vultures" Beck (and anything else by him, especially "One Foot in the Grave". 5. "Best of Leonard Cohen" Leonard Cohen 6. "Whatever and ever" Ben Folds Five (and everything else by them, especially their self-titled) 7. "International Velvet" Catatonia 8. "Without You I'm Nothing" Placebo 9. "Trailer Park" Beth Orton 10. "Tin Planet" Space 11. "The Black Album" and "Reload", by Metallica, and I will not even offer an excuse for this one, as I have big brothers, and have learned over the years, to accept their musicality and James' GREAT voice. The above is liable to change from time to time, except for the Dylan and for Liz. Apart from Dylan, Liz is about the only other artist that I could not bear to be without. Looking forward to chatting with ye all, :) Eefaa _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:35:40 -0800 (PST) From: mikey c at yehaw Subject: just mirc-ing around > From: Biggerd000@aol.com > just thought i should tell everyone that there is a channel for liz > phair on mirc its called #liz_phair So this makes at least two on there now, right? #wcse has been active for quite some time now (although I've never been able to get mirc working on my rig.) ===== Mikey C Va Beach "I'd rather cut Mitch Easter's lawn than play in a band like Journey." -- Robert Plant (ca. 1987) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:18:37 EST From: "Jen Lott" Subject: Poll Hi, I keep seeing everyone else's list of favorite albums, so here's my list: 1. Automatic for the People - REM 2. Little Earthquakes - Tori Amos 3. Exile in Guyville - Liz Phair 4. When the Pawn...- Fiona Apple 5. soundtrack to Reality Bites 6. Version 2.0 - Garbage 7. Ten - Pearl Jam 8. Live Through This - Hole 9. Pinkerton - Weezer 10. Everybody Else Is doing it so why can't we - Cranberries Jen "I don't know how you walk around with those things!" - Elaine Benes (Juila Louie Dryfuss), SEINFELD ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:12:48 -0500 From: tim bean Subject: liz in concert Well, this is just a rumor, but my friend who goes to Vassar knows a kid who's like a head honcho on the student events committee, and the guy says that liz will be playing at vassar for their spring concert..it seems kind of weird timing for her to do any sort of tour, but perhaps she's just trying out her new material. Does anyone else know of any other potential dates? tim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:11:00 EST From: KT072180@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #22 Answering to the poll questions: Top ten albums: 1) Liz Phair - Exile in Guyville 2) Tori Amos - Boys For Pele 3) Sarah McLachlan - Fumbling Towards Ecstasy 4) Lisa Germano - Excerpts From A Love Circus 5) Hole - Live Through This 6) Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes 7) Juliana Hatfield - Become What You Are 8) PJ Harvey - To Bring You My Love 9) Sleater- Kinney - self-titled 10) Ani Difranco - Dilate Favorite Liz song to lsiten to for eternity: "Divorce Song" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:02:54 -0500 From: jgay@nhpri.org Subject: Off Topic Ok, dont kill me, but I have a non-Liz related question. Someone here on the list refered me to the Spinanes. Well, I got a CD, and I think they are awesome. But, I can't find out any info about them on the 'net. If anyone has any info, I'd love an email. Also, a few digests back someone showed a link to new-ish Liz concert photos. I downloaded one which takes my breathe away everytime I look at it, but I lost the link. Can anyone help. Have a good weekend guys Jeff :-) (NP: Ramona Silver-- Ultrasound) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:34:08 -0500 From: "Brian P. Falk" Subject: RE: help! need answers! does anyone know? how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:19:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Dennis J. Kim" Subject: Re: Japanese Releases In reply to the question asking why Japanese releases sometimes get a bonus track from "Sally Mae": This was discussed on the Belly/Tanya Donelly list a while back. According to that discussion, record companies don't see a market for that sort of thing in the United States. The U.S. is primarily single-driven and not artist-driven. This is why U.S. pressings of "singles" often contain only the single and a remix, whereas U.K./European and Japanese pressings are more EP-like and have actual B-sides and unreleased tracks. Same goes for albums. On the other hand, the bonus track you find on Japanese albums may just be due to licensing issues? I can't say. Other things that are different include different track orders (Japanese "Siamese Dream," Smashing Pumpkins). Sometimes there are foreign releases of B-side compilations ("Baby Silvertooth," Belly) and special vinyl, bonus discs, special packaging, and other stuff. All this means that listeners who actually appreciate the music of an artist have to pay US$11 for an EP/single from the UK that only costs 2 pounds over there, or $27 for a B-side comp. Top 40 must die. The funny thing is, in Japan, you can *rent* music albums, like videos. Also, MiniDisc and CDR technology is fairly widespread there. And the record labels are concerned about silly mp3s? *** Dennis realizes there may be inaccuracies in the previous email, but he's just repeating information gleaned from another list from people who seemed to know what they were talking about. d. www4.ncsu.edu/~djkim2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:50:38 EST From: Ciel00@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #22 ok...i've been on this list for a while...but i've never written. this top ten poll is exciting me though, so here i go... these are in no order... weezer...pinkerton liz phair...exile in guyville juliana hatfield...become what you are sleater kinney...call the doctor or dig me out helium...the dirt of luck belly...star ben lee...grandpaw would cat power...moon pics the breeders...pod that dog...retreat from the sun ok...thanks maggie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:26:00 EST From: Mykayela@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #22 Couldn't resist. In no particular order, but depending on my oh so volatile mood.... PJ Harvey Dry Fiona Apple When The pawn.... Bob Dylan The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan Liz Phair Exile in Guyville PJ Harvey Is this Desire? Fleetwood Mac Rumours Pearl Jam Ten Lauryn Hill The Miseducation of... Ben Harper Fight For Your Mind Pink Floyd The Dark Side of the Moon Now that just doesn't shout out White college kid to you...nothing will. :) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:25:02 -0800 (PST) From: Emil Breton Subject: Need sequencing help Help! I'm making a Liz sampler for a friend of mine and I have no idea how to sequence it. Would any of you listmembers who feel you have sequencing powers care to help? Here's what it looks like (in random order, of course): Stratford-on-Guy Love Is nothing 6'1" Carnivore Freak of nature F & R Divorce Song Blood Keeper Flower Supernova Don't have Time Mesmerizing (live, from F&R boot) Dance of the 7 Veils (live, 10/17/98) Headache Speed Racer Can't Get out of What I'm into Stuck on an Island May Queen X-Ray Man Wild Thing Polyester Bride (live from the Vic) Johnny Feelgood Seriously, I have no clue what to do. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe since the tracks are from various sources and are all so diverse in sound quality/theme/production that it would be pointless to try to put them in some meaningful order. But I just feel like I should try to put them in a meaningful order. Also, if anyone knows where I could download an mp3 of "Blood Keeper," please tell. I've tried ripping an mp3 of it, but it comes out as nothing but 'white noise'. And don't tell me 'Phairy Tales,' because that site is down and it ain't never comin' back up. Thanks, Emil __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:17:23 -0500 From: "overpavement" Subject: this is not a topic mhk_77@yahoo.com wrote: >Any one like the Queers, Modern Lovers, Television, or >new or old Flaming Lips? television and modern lovers are essential, tremendously influential bands, while the other two are...not. tv's 'marquee moon' is just something everyone should own. and the modern lovers were crucial influences on television, talking heads, sex pistols, and so many others from 1973 - 1990). the lovers' leader, jonathan richman, is an acquired taste, but still essential. someone else wrote: >>I was wondering if all of ya could post like your 2 favorite cds (excluding Ms. Phair) and the reasons why they are so good...<< the request for 2 seems have grown to 10, so: 1) roxy music / roxy music: their first. i suspect most people on this list have never heard (or heard of) roxy music, but it's been written with a straight face that the only true works of art in rock music were roxy's first 2 albums. it's not true, but this is probably the bravest, most self-assured first album i've ever heard. and any roxy music album would do, except maybe 'manifesto'. 2) the the / dusk: i've always thought this was THE great overlooked disc of the 90's. complex, romantic, serious, fun, and a rewarding challenge for the listener. i could almost describe it as van morrison's 'astral weeks', updated by 25 years. 3) pavement / crooked rain crooked rain: people who think 'terror twilight' is even a mildly good recording need to stop giving these guys credit for past glories. 'brighten the corners' was brilliant, so i don't know why 'TT' was so dismal, but CRCR is a high water mark for them and for rock music in general. the village voice described this as 'a concept album about turning 28'. 4) sam phillips / martinis & bikinis: i loved her first post-leslie disc (the indescribable wow), but then i almost always love psychedelic music. but m&b is as good as anything else on this list, and it sounds so effortless. much better than aimee mann's best. 5) antenna / sway: when the blake babies broke up, most people followed juliana's career and never heard a peep out of john or freda. well, this disc is outstanding, and when compared to the relatively lame output JH has managed since the blakes' demise it makes you realize the blakes were a real Band. hard to find, highly recommended (at one time everything i bought was released on matador or mammoth). 6) various artists / where the pyramid meets the eye: a tribute to america's greatest acid casualty, roky erickson. REM, julian cope, bongwater, zz top, richard lloyd (from tv), poi dog pondering, and others all contribute excellent versions of roky's psychedelic classics. again, hard to find. again, highly recommended. 7) lucinda williams / car wheels on a gravel road: duh! 8) various artists / return of the grievous angel: released in 1999, this is a tribute to the great gram parsons, featuring lucinda williams, wilco, evan dando/juliana hatfield, elvis costello, chrissie hynde, the mavericks, sheryl crow, and others (including that dumb-ass beck, but nothing's perfect). a great compilation. 9) hank williams / the complete recordings (10 discs): don't go buy this. it's $150. but i have it, and it's AMAZING that he wrote all these songs, with so much feeling, serving as the roots for so much of the music that followed, and he died at 29. even if i didn't own this, i'd feel good just knowing it existed. this and the louis armstrong collection are my favorite box-sets. 10) pere ubu / the modern dance: i put pere ubu and (pre-'TT') pavement above all other bands. and this is my favorite pere ubu. and someone ELSE wrote: >Is anyone else as concerned about all of these >mergers? We will have went from six major music corporations down to four, >who would virtually have total control over the market. This kind of >overconsolidation unsettles me somewhat.... yes, but you need to get over it. things change. and just when you think you understand how something works, it changes. people who want to live under the sheltering sky of the old 'big 6' will have to learn to live in a world where music can be downloaded or edited or sped up or slowed down or whatever. sheryl crow observed that mp3's will mean the downfall of the 'album', because people won't listen to a whole 'album' anymore. they'll just download and listen to the hits. i'm afraid that's true. and it's just as dangerous to our concepts of 'serious' music as the consolidation is. what makes me nervous in liz's case is a comment in her alleged posting to this list (i'm not saying it wasn't her). it read something like, 'i didn't even know all this stuff was out here.' maybe she just meant this list specifically, but i'm afraid she meant that she hasn't really embraced the net in general, or begun exploiting its possibilities. but for a serious musician, songwriter, or artist, you *need* to be aware of the channels you can use to get your music and/or message in front of people. if you're not aware, you're going to get passed by. liz should be making sure capitol keeps her web pages up to date. and she should be trying to figure out how to use this medium just as she's used the visual arts, lyric-writing, and music in her career. i'm certain she could bring something new to the medium, and i'm also sure that as these consolidations continue artists like her will need to look for new ways to get their work into the hands of their audiences. ignoring the inevitable is often fatal. i understand why she went with capitol instead of matador. it's the smart move. but she also needs to be preparing for the day when the smart thing will be to get away from capitol. things change. as the boy scouts say, 'be prepared'. lastly, is there anyone else out there who thinks 'russian girl' sounds an awful lot like half the songs on belly's second disc, 'king'? ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #23 ***********************************