From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #17 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 03 : Number 017 Today's Subjects: ----------------- if i tell you, you'd have to delete this. . . [Exile217@aol.com] so, whatever, yeah... [tommyk7@excite.com] [none] [Riot Poof ] Wouldn't a smarter Mann simply walk away? [Jason Long ] A possible new thread.... [Easter ] EIG Rerelease? [Liz Gould ] re: snow (from brian not katie) ["Roper, Catherine E" ] Re: Phil's post, pix disks, and other stuff [JLD4125269@aol.com] WE DID IT!!/RADIOHEAD? [Dan ] liz phair ["pat flynn" ] brain teaser [Mark McKee ] aimee mann, aimee mann, aimee mann (and some liz phair, too) [jake ] Re: EIG Rerelease? [Jason Long ] Re: why staying off-topic sux ["Kristi!" ] Re: why staying off-topic sux [Jason Long ] Re: Liz at Popfolio.com [BobDsn@aol.com] Bounced message [Jason Long ] emotional rescue ["Dana Polachowski" ] quips [Mike Marlatt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 02:38:30 EST From: Exile217@aol.com Subject: if i tell you, you'd have to delete this. . . i've tried to resist, but i just had to share my thoughts on the aimee mann/off topic discussion the aimee postings don't bother me in the least. it's the dragged out discussions of whether or not it was ok that i could do without. of course i could be accused of doing the same thing now. have mercy otherwise neutral liz b ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:52:52 -0800 (PST) From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: so, whatever, yeah... So Iv'e been cooped up in my house because of this FUCKING BITTER COLD AND FUCKING SNOW but it's all cool because we've been strapped with plenty of SICK herb and well we've rented some cool movies (Dr. Strangelove, Miami Blues) and we're pretty much chilling and having fun and we actually went out...and we actually found a bar and at this bar they served ANY drink you could ever desire for the paltry sum of $2 and yes $2...this is not a joke so ok so booze is $2 and I drink like 6 Red Stripes because like it's like my favourite beer and like I've never paid less than like $6.99 for a six-pack of the stuff so anyway at this point I'm buzzed from the brew but STILL baked not to put it mildly but *still* ... it's a good time and I played "Speed Racer" for a friend of mine and it was the first time she ever heard Liz and she actually, like, liked it, and that is the crux of this post sorry for the rambling. Sheesh. Don't you hate me now? TMK Look around Do you see anyone for themselves Like you see yourself? So why do you still feel so all alone? - -ECP _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 02:59:33 -0500 (EST) From: Riot Poof Subject: [none] I just want to make it clear that i was *NOT* bitching about off-topic discussion. You see, Jase, it isnt off-topic discussion that irritates me. it is the fact that every single small bit of aimee mann NEWS has been posted to this list, comprising more than half of each digest. that isnt even discussion. I like Lords of Acid. *A LOT*. since they are embarking on a new tour, and liz isnt doing much of anything at all right now, i think i will go ahead and post every little piece of LOA news i can find to this list, becuase i am sure SOMEONE must be interested! sounds annoying, doesnt it? steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 03:39:28 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Wouldn't a smarter Mann simply walk away? >I just want to make it clear that i was *NOT* bitching about off-topic >discussion. You see, Jase, it isnt off-topic discussion that irritates >me. it is the fact that every single small bit of aimee mann NEWS has been >posted to this list, comprising more than half of each digest. that isnt >even discussion. > >I like Lords of Acid. *A LOT*. since they are embarking on a new tour, >and liz isnt doing much of anything at all right now, i think i will go >ahead and post every little piece of LOA news i can find to this list, >becuase i am sure SOMEONE must be interested! The difference here is that not just SOMEONE is interested, but MANY PEOPLE. I'd say at least 25% of the members of this list listen to Aimee's music. There are very few artists who probably have that high of a percentage of fans among support-system subscribers, especially given what a diverse group we are. And obviously the subject of Aimee Mann must be of interest to many or there wouldn't be quite as many responses to the Aimee-related postings. I doubt you'd see half as many, if any at all, responses to anything you post about Lords of Acid. Also, it hasn't all been news that has been posted about Aimee; there has been discussion as well. Go back and do a bit of reading before you generalize. And hell, it doesn't take much for anything to be half of a digest seeing as how little is getting posted these days. Anyway, I received a message of support earlier this evening from another list subscriber that I'd like to quote here, as it says a lot of what I'd like to, but I haven't been brave enough to do so. I hope the writer doesn't mind me quoting this on the list; just in case, I've deleted his name and e-mail address: "It seems quite funny to me that people would complain about the list discussing Aimee Mann when you, the list admin, was involved in some of the threads... :-) And you did make it very clear, on several occasions... off topic discussion is allowed. I'm sure if the digest started being issued 4 times a day, you'd consider some restriction... but until then... :-) What would annoy me most isn't the off topic posts... but the fact that someone's complaining about something you already ruled on. It's almost a challenge to your authority.... grr.. heh Yeah, you can probably tell I run a list... heh And when my instructions or authority are openly defied... nothing pisses me off more. heheh Speaking if which... doesn't your intro email say something along the lines of "problems and complaints? email me at ..... " The most annoying thing about any list isn't the off-topic posts.. but all the bitching and whining that goes on after... hehe It's stupid when for every off-topic posts, there's a half dozen complaints, and a dozen replies to the complaint.. heh" If anyone doesn't like the rules as I've established them, feel free to unsubscribe. This list just isn't very much fun for me anymore when I see myself and others having to defend what we wish to discuss. As such, I don't care as much about whether others are enjoying the list either. A number of us were discussing the list this evening on #wcse and we all agreed that it was much better in its earlier days. Everyone was a lot more easy-going and no one got as bent out of shape about things such as off-topic posting. Also, I know of one list member who has a lot to say but adamantly refuses to post because everytime he does, someone jumps all over everything he says because they don't recognize his tongue-in-cheek humor for what it is. I don't remember things always being this way. In the past, I doubt we had people who felt uncomfortable posting. Oh, and you know, I hope Aimee wins the Golden Globe award tonight that she's nominated for. I hope she becomes huge, so that those who are complaining will have her shoved down their throats at every turn, not just on this list. :P Also, are you guys new to mailing lists? As it is, support-system is *far* more on topic than most lists I've ever been on. I'd like to see how you'd all survive on the Loud Family and Joni Mitchell lists that I'm on, which, for the record, would be far less interesting without their off-topic threads. At least I'm not asking to see photos of Liz nude, Jase (who probably isn't very popular right now, but oh well, whatever, nevermind.... Hmmm, maybe I should start an off-topic thread about Nirvana... ;) ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:27:14 -0800 (PST) From: Easter Subject: A possible new thread.... Jase wrote: "And also, another thing I've noticed is that most of the people complaining are lurkers. Not that I have a problem with people lurking, but come on, the lurkers never contribute to the list -- never start a thread, never reply to one" Whoa..I've never thought I'd ever be a lurker, but there really hasn't been anything interesting to talk about. Soo...is it ohk to start a Liz related topic? Which song do you think is the most personal by Liz? The kind of song where you get to see what's she's really like and her feelings? For some reason, the only song that always come into mind is Only Son, since it talks about her relationship with her husband. Throw in What Makes You Happy as well. I'm pretty sure there's more, but hey...I'm open to anyone's ideas. Ohh...another note, I think people need to quit posting to the list, complaining about how things are at the moment. It's better to keep your opinions to yourself and instead of having a flame war going on. Just skip the posts that don't interest you cuz I'm pretty sure Jase is getting tired of his posting of how it's ohk to go off topic once in a while when Liz isn't doing a thing at the moment. Katie ();) ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "You waste your time with hate and regret," - Madonna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:04:42 -0800 (PST) From: Liz Gould Subject: EIG Rerelease? Okay-- I was wondering if the EIG rerelease came out already... I was at Tower Records last week and they had a huge supply of EIG on sale... And they all had like a little sticker on them saying how Miss Liz like opened the way for artists such as Alanis and such... And there was no Matador pic on the album at all... I was wondering if this was the rerelease or what... Liz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:12:58 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Roper, Catherine E" Subject: re: snow (from brian not katie) we got a lot of snow up in pa where i live by the way, i gotta say that play tennessee used to beat the bills with was bullshit. there is no way a guy can be behind the 25, and throw to a guy in front of the 25, and it's NOT a fwd pass!!!! man those guys are in trouble when hey get to buffalo next year. actually, i think i might get season tickets to the bills just so i can make sure i can see it personally. brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:16:28 EST From: JLD4125269@aol.com Subject: Re: Phil's post, pix disks, and other stuff In a message dated 1/23/00 1:17:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << Not so much for sales, but for magazine covers and critical acknowledgment >> Help me understand this...Liz was everywhere for WCSE. Do you mean similar coverage again? <> I agree that would be nice. <> Me too! In regard to An Evening With... I'm really surprised that no one's heard about the progress (a producer? how are the tracks coming?) or a release date or anything. We're a large obsessive group (well, most of us appear to be, anyway) does this mean that none of us have any connections any more? Or are they just not talking this time? Just pondering... ______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ Question: I know Liz put out 2 colorful vinyl singles, but has she ever put out a picture disk? {I only ask because I dreamt I was in a contest and I won a complete set of Liz's recordings (even the boots) all on Liz picture discs. They were really cool. I know that they don't really exist, but a girl can hope, can't she? Maybe if/when she releases GS?} ______________________________________________________________________________ ____________________ In other news... Here's my two cents. I get the impression that it's almost like some people are involved in a "relationship" with this digest. I know that sounds crazy, but think about it. It would appear that some people treat the list as they might a person they are involved with. Take for example, Jase's lurker theory -- you don't put much effort in, but you expect it to give back to you what you want (only Liz news) and then get upset when it doesn't. Or maybe you're not a lurker, but still it's not giving you what you want exactly when you want, so you get mad at it and lash out. (Or walk away, take a break from reading the digests, or just delete them. Whatever.) I don't know if I am verbally expressing this as well as I am understanding it in my head. Oh well. Do you know what I mean? This is just an e-mail guys. We all enjoy it when there is Liz news to read about (that's why we joined and read this thing every day, right?) But like Jase said, unfortunately there's not always a lot to talk about. I've heard it from others and I would agree that I've discovered lots of other interesting music, artists, etc., from these off-topic discussions. And I know for some folks on the list who don't live in Big City America discussions about the BWP or other off-topic stuff exposes folks who live in Small Town America (or other countries, for that matter), to things that they might not otherwise have even heard of. Honestly, as long as no one is personally attacking someone else on this list I don't really care what everyone talks about (off-topic). Whether I agree with what's said or not, it's usually interesting and sometimes even thought-provoking! =) OK, enough said. Off to put my soap box away, Janet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:53:04 -0500 From: Dan Subject: WE DID IT!!/RADIOHEAD? I could not stop laughing while reading the last digest.... Everyone was complaining about Aimee Mann - and how we are constantly off topic... and the whole time - we unknowingly created an ENTIRE new topic! That being: Staying off topic. I had this big ole grin on my face the more I scrolled down, seeing all these subjects of "Why staying off topic sux" and "Who needs a topic" and "Staying On Topic" and "Things to do when avoiding the topic". I thought it was hilarious!! Nearly an entire digest about NOTHING (not even Aimee) but staying off topic!!!! I myself, just now, contributed to it. SHIT! But, i'm not complaining.I'm Just observing and being honest and loving. QUESTION - I'm ultra-hooked on Radiohead lately. I have re-discovered the album OK COMPUTER and I just cannot bring myself to take it out of my CD player. I know Radiohead is coming up with something new fairly soon - just wondering if ANYONE knows anything about it... title/release date etc.... I'm really hooked on them lately...never realized how much i love this band. I have their 3 major releases...but haven't given them much of a listen for about a year or so.... it's like i gained 3 new CDs!!!! i also re-discovered Whip-Smart... i think many of us are doing that right now..coincidence???? Phair minds think alike. at any rate, My stereo gives good radiohead. Dan. NP - "OK COMPUTER." %&%&%&%&%%%%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&% "So take a deep breath, and count back from ten, and maybe you'll be alright...." -Liz Phair. *******************************^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:10:10 GMT From: "pat flynn" Subject: liz phair i was listening to liz last night and then i had this dream that i met her and she was all like i love you pat and then we danced and she sang to me then we layed down and i put my head in her lap and we talked about music and she made up this song for me, but i dont remember it at all. she wore that cowboy hat and she told me her next album was going to be her best one and it was dedicated to me, so when i buy it i am going to look on the inside cover-just to make sure that was a dream last nite i think thats all the exciting things that happened. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:13:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: brain teaser Would you say you think more from the right or left side of your brain...or maybe from neither side at all? mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:07:20 -0800 (PST) From: jake Subject: aimee mann, aimee mann, aimee mann (and some liz phair, too) it never stops, does it? nicole, how would you like it if someone told you they were so sick of hearing you talk about liz phair that they were not going to give her a chance? just a thought. I was at mp3.com and I did a search for liz phair and it turned up a song entitled "liz phair" by a band named weston. anyone heard it? it does kind of have a blink 182 feel to it, but I'm also reminded of the "david duchovny" song by bree sharp (due to the content). ben lee even gets a mention. if you want to check it out, here's the address: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/weston.html jake __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:26:01 EST From: Nach1120@aol.com Subject: liz at the top! i was just looking through the top songs that people voted on at my local radio station..Q101 in chicago....liz showed up a suprising number of times.... 856. "6'1"" - Liz Phair 674. "Whip Smart" - Liz Phair 599. "Stratford On Guy" - Liz Phair 592. "Polyester Bride" - Liz Phair This just suprised me because i had never heard Liz played on this station...some others that made the list and suprised the hell out of me were the eels, lisa loeb, belly, and a bunch of others i though no one but myself would have voted for.... Christine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:52:35 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: Man, Aimee Rulez! Nah, just kidding. Its gotten boring again so ta ta til Tuesday. Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:55:28 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: EIG Rerelease? Liz wrote: >I was wondering if the EIG rerelease came out >already... I was at Tower Records last week and they >had a huge supply of EIG on sale... And they all had >like a little sticker on them saying how Miss Liz like >opened the way for artists such as Alanis and such... >And there was no Matador pic on the album at all... I >was wondering if this was the rerelease or what... The EIG rerelease was originally scheduled for January 11, then, at least according to Amazon.com, was moved to January 25. Perhaps Tower got their stock early, wasn't aware of the date change, and started selling it before the new release date. The later pressings of EIG on Matador contained a sticker like the one you describe on the front, quoting from the write-up about the album that appeared in Rolling Stone's '200 Essential Albums' issue. The way to tell for sure whether the copies at Tower are remaining Matador stock or the new rerelease is to check the catalogue number on the spine of the CDs. If it reads "OLE 051-2," it's a Matador pressing; any other number would indicate that it's one issued by Capitol. Hope this helps, Jase (writing a non-Aimee post and a non-defending-off-topic-messages post -- who'd've thought? ;) ) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:27:20 -0500 From: "Kristi!" Subject: Re: why staying off-topic sux - ----- Original Message ----- From: support-system-digest To: Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: support-system-digest V3 #16 > And also, another thing I've noticed is that most of the people complaining > are lurkers. Not that I have a problem with people lurking, but come on, the > lurkers never contribute to the list -- never start a thread, never reply to > one -- and yet they want to dictate the content of what gets posted to the > list? I mean, I liken this to people who never vote yet feel they have the > write to bitch about who's in office. > > And you know what -- you may find posts about Aimee Mann annoying, but I > find posts bitching about the Aimee content even more annoying. And you're > only serving to let this drag on even further -- once there's less Aimee > stuff to talk about, the discussion would have died down to casual mentions > here and there. But this debate could drag on forever, at this rate. > > > Jase Oh my. Even though I have grown tired of the Aimee Mann posts, I've kinda secretly stood behind you as you made good points..... until now. There is no need to attack people. I deeply find the "lurker" comments offensive. If there is nothing to talk about, no need to bring up crap that is irrelevant. I have no doubt it will pick up when Liz picks up. People who talk and talk and talk (and talk) aren't any better than those who know when to do so. But, what you wish you shall get.... I *just* recently received word that Jeff Buckley estate will be releasing a live concert album in May. For all who love Jeff, please, go to www.jeffbuckley.com/livealbum/ for the latest. And, I suggest that all of us "people who never vote yet feel they have the write to bitch about who's in office" write at least one message to the list. Discuss anything you want for it seems that the people "in office" don't care about topics. Kristi, the proud lurker ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:46:51 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: why staying off-topic sux Kristi wrote: >Oh my. Even though I have grown tired of the Aimee Mann >posts, I've kinda secretly stood behind you as you made good >points..... until now. There is no need to attack people. >I deeply find the "lurker" comments offensive. If there is >nothing to talk about, no need to bring up crap that is >irrelevant. I have no doubt it will pick up when Liz picks >up. People who talk and talk and talk (and talk) aren't any >better than those who know when to do so. I didn't mean "lurker" in a derogatory manner. It just bugs me that people who never or seldom contribute to the list -- Liz content or not -- all of a sudden decide to post, only to criticize what other people are posting about. These people never speak up otherwise, yet when they finally do, it's to complain. What would have been more productive is for people, if they finally want to speak up, to post about something they want to see discussed rather than complain about what other people enjoy talking about when they've never contributed much before. You know, if you don't like the current topic and want something Liz-related, post something that will start such a thread -- that's what will get the pendulum to swing back the other way, not speaking up for the first time to attack others. And these aren't necessarily "those who know when to" talk; these people, for the most part, don't talk at all. There's a difference. Wishing this would drop already, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:03:42 EST From: BobDsn@aol.com Subject: Re: Liz at Popfolio.com Michael Worrell wrote: >Someone asked where the site was; I didn't make it clear in the actual text >of the message. Therefore: > >The URL for the Jeffery photographs is www.popfolio.com >From there, scroll down the right-hand menu and find "Liz Phair" Thanks much Michael! Nice pix of "la Phairest one!" - -Bob K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:18:57 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Nicole W." Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #16 Grrr. I wasn't going to post, but I have to because I forgot to put something in my post from yesterday, and of course the one thing I didn't remember to include (but intended to...) gets picked upon. What I was going to write in my post was: The reason I don't just unsub is cuz on those off chances that there IS pertinent Liz related information, SS is like the best and first place to get it. And I just have that secret hope that sometimes there will be something to be read about Liz. I mean that there will be Liz happenings to read about. So I keep reading my SS in the hopes of finding something worth my while... which there OCCASIONALLY is. Tha'ts why I can't comepletely exercise the power of my delete key. Now if there was a website, say, or alternative way to get thsi info as fast and whatever as SS, I would unsub. Sad, cuz I used to like SS a whole lot. Bleh. Well nothing's ever as it seems, I guess. Bleh'd out, - -Nicole * * * * * * * * * * * * "Perfect is a fault, and fault lines change." -R.E.M. "Push me and I will resist/ This behavior's not unique" -Pearl Jam "Insanity is super sanity." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:56:13 -0800 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: emotional rescue > Liz is a goddess, but I don't ever get too emotional when I hear her songs. > I think she is somewhat scared to let her emotions out on a record. This is > not to say she isn't heartbreakingly honest in her lyrics, cause she is. > With the exception of "Perfect World", "Go On Ahead", and "Strange Loop", and > "Stuck On An Island", I don't hear too much coming out of her gut > emotions...... Does anyone know what I'm talking about????? It's kinda like > a quote Courtney Love said about Ms. Phair, "Liz, can you just have a bad day > for once?" But I think Liz has realized that and is writing some dark stuff, > just like she said in that earlier interview. I'd love to know of her past > heartbreaks and family troubles. She's very ellusive about those subjects, > especially on "Only Son". i know what'cher talkin' about... a while ago i wondered to this list if anyone knew any specifics about liz's brother, 'cause she sorta makes it sound like *perhaps* he might be a fuck-up ("only son"). i dunno--she could just be makin' it up.... in a review of WCSE robert christgau said, ''... does anyone else notice how *detached* she is?...." which is, of course, right on. i've also read reviews where they point out that she obviously hones her songs to suit her voice and delivery--another good point. if you think about it, it plugs right in to the early stage-fright stuff. she's just not naturally "expressive" like that. she's not a "rager"; not a typical rock-and-roll personality at all. oh well. and that's one reason i totally dig her. *i* do get really emotional when i hear her stuff because, lyrically, she just nails it with laserlike precision. everything she talks about is emotional, everything. it's just that her delivery is a bit aloof sometimes, and, again, that's all part of it. courtney, tori, and sarah can get all sloppy and slushy all they want; i'll take liz and her "peppermint patty" delivery any day--it's a nice change. so, i'm not disagreeing with you at all, phil, i'm just sayin'.... plus, it really seems like she's sort of "opening up" a bit; you know, really getting into the singing and stuff.... it's all good. anyway, dp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:02:23 -0500 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: quips I'm on Nicole's side as far as not getting into this Mann chick. Anything I've heard sounds like a bunch of Ani DiFranco meets Paula Cole chick music. Does she play an electric guitar and talk about getting high, fucking (as opposed to sex) and pointless stories about incidents ( like Stuck on an Island -- "Aloha, Dr. Phair"!!!!)???? Probably not. As far as Liz "selling out". In the words of Juliana Hatfield: "It's not a sell-out if nobody buys it" ___________________ From the office of Elizabeth Petticrew and Michael Marlatt NESBITT BURNS INC. Tel: (604) 443-1471; (604) 443-1622 Toll Free: 1-888-345-4645 Fax: (604) 443-1524 NESBITT BURNS INC. ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #17 ***********************************