From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #15 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, January 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 015 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V3 #14 ["Kristin Arnold" ] Re: damn the mann! [Miz Phair ] Re: whip-smart [Joshua T Keir ] BIG NEWS for Mann Fans [RocketBoyD@aol.com] Re: whip-smart [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: Ben Lee Question (OT) [TaliaK@aol.com] RE: BIG NEWS for Mann Fans ["Henry, Gregory" ] WhipSmart/Selling Out [MAILER-DAEMON ] Re: URL for Liz concert pix? [BobDsn@aol.com] Re: When did this become an Aimee Mann list? [Jason Long ] Liz on Aimee Mann's "Top 5 Required Listening" list [Jason Long ] Selling Out [MAILER-DAEMON ] pretty boys and pretty girls ["Katie Brown" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:21:00 -0600 From: "Kristin Arnold" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #14 I will be out of the office beginning at 1:30 on Thursday, January 20. I will return to the office on Tuesday, January 25. I will not be checking my mail during this time. Please contact Jim Rollins at ext. 8877 if your concern needs immediate attention. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 01:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: Riot Poof Subject: whip smart / damn the mann! gabe, i had the same problem with whipsmart. it was actually my first liz album, and i really did not like it at all because of all the repetition at the end of most of the songs. so i tossed it, and dug it out a few months later when i was bored and fell in love. then i got Exile and that quickly became my favorite. to this day, i still get sorta irritated by the repetition at the end of half the whipsmart songs...but not as much as before. i second the "wtf is up w/ all the aimee mann crap" commentary. i dont understand why the people who keep posting about her don't just start an aimee mann list?? and if there already is one--why dont you JOIN IT? i know we always go astray on this list...but this aimee mann stuff has been going on wayyy longer than the blair witch thing did--now that's scary!;) oh well. i guess it could be worse. y'all could be talking about britney spears, like the veruca salt list is right now. ;) new subject: christina uglyhaira -- the next mariah? steve "i wont decorate my love x 6" -liz phair ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:45:28 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: Re: damn the mann! > i second the "wtf is up w/ all the aimee mann crap" > commentary. i dont > understand why the people who keep posting about her > don't just start an > aimee mann list?? and if there already is one--why > dont you JOIN IT? i > know we always go astray on this list...but this > aimee mann stuff has been > going on wayyy longer than the blair witch thing > did--now that's scary!;) > Well, as the person who brought her up THIS week, I'd like to say that I did so, because people HERE on this list helped me change my mind. So I think it IS relevant. And if you read my post, you'd see that I asked for the location of THAT list, so that I could join it and talk with people who are into her. And the only thing appearing more than Stop the Mann-ness on this list are questions about OT posts. And as Jase has said most kindly each time, there's not much to talk about re: Liz right now. And there is a lot to talk about re: Aimee. Sorry if I bothered you, but it was a bit of a revelation for me. I've been in Liz-obsessive mode lately, and barely giving anyone else a chance musically. I did this time and wanted to share. paige- ===== "And so, for the sake of momentum I'm condemning the future to death so it can match the past." - --Aimee Mann, "Momentum" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:34:17 -0500 (EST) From: Joshua T Keir Subject: Re: whip-smart hey everybody. Two of my favorite songs on Whip-smart are Shane and Nashville. I don't have it with me, but I believe they both have some of the repetition that is being discussed. For me, it reminds me of past days of the same old stuff, everyday. The whole monotony of the daily routine... Stuck in a rut, jumping through hoops, etc. I don't know, I just really like it. This is my first post in a long time. I stopped reading for a while, last year, when my semester got really busy. NP: www.spankradio.com (not as dirty as it sounds). You Gotta Have Fear..., Josh T. Keir Undergraduate, Computer Science, Penn State University keir@cse.psu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:44:53 EST From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: BIG NEWS for Mann Fans I truly didn't believe something like this could happen, but then again, I'm sure the cast of Magnolia didn't believe there could have been a plague of reptiles falling from the sky. Taking it's cue from those leaping frogs, the MAGNOLIA soundtrack is the Billboard greatest gainer in sales of the week!!!!!!!!!!!! Current Stats!!!!! MAGNOLIA SOUNDTRACK (greatest gainer/sales) Last Week:: #147 This Week::#81 Number 81, ladies and gentlemen. Easily Aimee's highest album chart since Til' Tuesday. If she keeps this up, who knows? I am so proud of her, she truly deserves to get some recognition. Could this be a breakthrough? I'm sure the stores are noticing the demand and will be stocking up. My Best Buy had only one copy when I bought it. WOW!!!!! maybe the golden globe???????? Move over Madonna, here comes Aimee!!!! PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 02:46:24 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: whip-smart My fave Whip Smart songs, Go East and Cinco De Mayo. Very cool. yeah it isn't her best all the way through but Robert Christgo's review for it comes to mind. He quotes her in his honerable mention collumn, reserved for good, but not great albums: "I didn't want to make it shitty but I didn't want it to be A+ either." Seriosuly that's the review. he's famious for his one liners. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 05:03:26 EST From: TaliaK@aol.com Subject: Re: Ben Lee Question (OT) That's screenwriter and director Harmony Korine (of Kids, Gummo, and Julien Donkey Boy fame). From what I've heard it's a message that he left on Ben's answering machine. Someone on the Ben Lee list got this as what is being said: "I was just, I had seen "Picnic At Hanging Rock", and uh, and then I was staying at these people's house,(...?...), they had like this baby there, and I drank a bottle of Absolut, and then when I looked at the baby, they had a piano by her so I sat down and um, I took off all my clothes, except for my uh, except for my boxers so that (...?...), I just wanted to say that it's called Drunken um Piano Man Concerto." Robin "You look like shit, and the smell is even better. And I feel like shit, and I want to go back to bed." ~Liz Phair ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:01:09 -0500 From: "Henry, Gregory" Subject: RE: BIG NEWS for Mann Fans Okay, this is for those of you who have already seen "Magnolia" and know about the little "twist" at the end. Don't give it away on the list for those who haven't seen it yet, please! Rock on, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:06:15 -0500 (EST) From: MAILER-DAEMON Subject: WhipSmart/Selling Out Whip Smart is still my favorite album of Liz's, and I wanted to comment on the repetition. Now, I can't speak for all the repetition, but as for the lines repeated seemingly forever at the end of Shane, it reminds me of when I'm just sitting around thinking deeply while the television is on, and I'm not really paying attention to the television. Then, I involuntarily start watching television, and when I try to get back to thinking, I realize that for the past five minutes I've just been repeating one phrase in my head over and over again. Maybe this is something only I do, but I hope it's not. As for Whip-Smart itself, it's supposed to sound like (in my opinion) something kids skip rope to. Lord knows that's just built on repetition. I also wanted to talk about selling out, because it's not just about money, it's about compromising your music abilities. For some music, you just have to ask yourself at what point does it stop being music and just start being a parlor trick. Joshua Patrick Kanary, Esquire vist my web page: http://www2.gvsu.edu/~kanaryj "Don't go mistakin' paradise for that home across the road." -Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:53:19 EST From: BobDsn@aol.com Subject: Re: URL for Liz concert pix? In a message dated 1/21/2000 1:18:42 AM, "Michael Worrell" wrote: >A site run by Jennifer Jeffery has some concert shots of Liz Phair and a >_bunch_ of other folks. The Phair shots are from 14 August 1999, at the Pine >Knob show in Clarkston, MI. Cool! Can you post the URL please? Thanks! - -Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:34:49 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: When did this become an Aimee Mann list? Bob wrote: >Hi all- > >I have loved Aimee Mann's music since the first 'Til Tuesday album. She's a >great artist and it's wonderful that she's getting some well-deserved >recognition for her work on the Magnolia soundtrack. > >But when did Support System become The Aimee Mann Digest? then Steve wrote: >i second the "wtf is up w/ all the aimee mann crap" commentary. i dont >understand why the people who keep posting about her don't just start an >aimee mann list?? and if there already is one--why dont you JOIN IT? i >know we always go astray on this list...but this aimee mann stuff has been >going on wayyy longer than the blair witch thing did--now that's scary!;) I think the key thing to remember is that this list has never been a completely on-topic one, and in a way, I hope it never is. I've always thought of this as a community where Liz fans can gather, but are not strictly limited to discussing her work, but other things that interest the list's subscribers as well -- things that are important to us. Some of the best threads we've had on this list are those that weren't completely on-topic, but allowed us to discover things about each other's taste or opinions. If we were limited to only posting about Liz, things would get boring rather quickly, simply because she just doesn't do that much between albums. At least during the wait for _whitechocolatespaceegg_, I had been leaked the Shelved Demos tape which lead to weeks, if not months, of discussion, and we were also able to speculate as to what was taking the record so long and why Liz had decided to switch producers more than once. Also, towards the end of the wait, we had Brad Wood on the list occasionally posting things relevant to Liz, and those of us with web sites were sent e-mails from someone on Matador's staff with any news of interest to Liz fans which one or more of us would then post to the list. With Liz's upcoming album, no one's really heard any demo material and none of us have been provided with any sort of updates. As well, the press hasn't written much on the sessions for the album, apart from the piece in Alternative Press. We simply don't know that much about what's going on. One thing I've noticed as well is that whenever I do post anything with Liz content to the list, it usually ends up getting ignored. Even when I offered my thoughts on what we might be able to expect from the new album, no one else said a word. I've noticed the same thing with a lot of other posts about Liz that people make. Very few are responding to the on-topic postings; at least with all of the Aimee messages, more people are posting and their posts are being responded to. Besides, one thing to remember is that the digests have been really short as of late. It makes it very easy for it to appear that the Aimee content is dominating the list, when really it's only two or three posts a day usually. My suggestion is that if anyone has a problem with anything that's being posted, rather than complain about what is being talked about, try starting a thread of your own about what you'd like to see discussed. Complaining isn't very productive and those who do appreciate the off-topic posts are going to get defensive (such as I am right now). Starting your own thread is probably the only way that a change is likely to happen. Just my two pennies. Pulling the pin on another grenade, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:33:05 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Liz on Aimee Mann's "Top 5 Required Listening" list Taken from an article in December 1999's issue of Performing Songwriter: Aimee's Top 5 Required Listening The Beatles, _Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_ Zombies, _Odessey and Oracle_ Liz Phair, _Exile in Guyville_ Loud Family, _Plants and Birds And Rocks and Things_ Sinatra/Jobim, _Francis Albert Sinatra and Antonio Carlos Jobim_ Well, at least it's *sort of* on-topic.... I mean, if no one complains about posts detailing Liz being slagged off by past and present Matador artists, why should a post about an artist praising Liz be deemed a bad thing? ;) Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:30:54 -0800 (PST) From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: BB+BK=SO Sell out you ask? "Burger King Signs Deal With Backstreet Boys" (recent headline) Maybe not, though - because I think you have to have some artistic integrity in the FIRST place... TMK Look around Do you see anyone for themselves Like you see yourself? So why do you still feel so all alone? - -ECP _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 10:56:15 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Schulz Subject: Selling out & Aimee Mann The last digest was short, but it finally brought up something that I'd been thinking about. 1. Aimee Mann fans, congratulations on her success with Magnolia and the like, but this is a LIZ PHAIR list. I don't want to read gigantic articles on Aimee Mann. Two of my favorite bands are REM and Wilco, but I'm not putting articles on them on this list. 2. The whole selling-out issue is a load of crap. Its kind of like the whole "its popular so it can't be any good" thing. Its all a matter of people being upset that their favorite band isn't their own little secret anymore. Bands change their sound -- from the Beatles to Led Zeppelin to REM to U2 to everyone in between. If you don't like where they're going, fine. You don't have to. But the idea of Liz selling out is just silly. Its not like she's Smashmouth or Lenny Kravitz, who sell hit songs to companies for commercials WHILE THEY'RE STILL CURRENTLY PLAYED ON THE RADIO. If you're worried about selling out, be angry at that type of thing, not your favorite band changing their sound. Anyway, sorry about venting. Just tired of these two threads and wanted to put my two cents in.... ===== Matt Schulz schulz52@yahoo.com - ----------- "I believe in the Church of Baseball" - -- Annie Savoy, Bull Durham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:10:02 -0500 (EST) From: MAILER-DAEMON Subject: Selling Out I've commented on this before, but I wanted to throw in one more thing. Well, two more things. A lot of people say selling out is crap, but most of the people who say that seem to only be saying because they know some guy who only likes "underground" music and claims everything else is selling out. Granted, this guy is a crack pot, but that doesn't necessarily mean the people don't sell out. Here's what I think is a good definition of selling out: When a song is just a three minute commercial for the album. Joshua Patrick Kanary, Esquire vist my web page: http://www2.gvsu.edu/~kanaryj "Don't go mistakin' paradise for that home across the road." -Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:24:34 PST From: "Katie Brown" Subject: pretty boys and pretty girls calling steve kiskoooo... LOL, he's probably like me, still subscribed, thinking about posting when he sees his name, yet still hasn't posted in the last six months... so, yeah. i read somebody's inquiry about Tubular Bells and Pretty Boys and Pretty Girls - this would be a group called Book of Love that i highly, and i mean highly <(:D ...recommend to any of you who may have experienced a techno phase during the 80s. Ted Otaviano ran in the same chicago indie circle as Jim Ellison (Material Issue) and, yes, oh my god here it comes, Ms. Elizabeth Clark Phair. coincidentally my cousin christopher ran with this crowd, help me mary please, adn i have made the final decision that he is an asshole and i don't care how hip he was in the 80s. but hey! check out the Liz content ^^ weak, i know. here's better liz content: MO on liz selling out. i do not think that liz has sold out. I really love WCSE, but i prefer her bitchy fuck-me phase to her you go on ahead honey, mom-with-a-baby-and-a-jeep phase. i like both her styles, i liked listening to her styles evolve, and i basically worship her as a rock goddess. did not sell out. AND i really like some of your opinions on selling out and what it means... its a term thrown around too often. later kittens take care katiebrown ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #15 ***********************************