From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #12 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, January 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V3 #11 [RocketBoyD@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V3 #11 [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Aimee Mann/'Til Tuesday [Jason Long ] CDNOW Editors' Top 10 Alternate/Indie Albums of the Decade ["Bob Lucier" ] selling out? ["Morrise, Jason" ] EIG re-issue [Andy Peters ] SELL OUT [Jessica1129@aol.com] from the depths of a saturn return [Meow Grrl ] Re: Subject: Aimee Mann (skip if you're not interested) ["Al" ] A Diffrent take On Selling Out [AWeiss4338@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:34:02 EST From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #11 I just want to say (and I know I've mentioned it time and time again) how good Aimee's Magnolia soundtrack is. I was a middle of the road Aimee fan before the soundtrack came out, and now I'm moving towards obsessed. "I'm With Stupid" and "Whatever" were good albums as well, but they don't have the focus and sharpness that the new one has (in my opinion). I just can't get over how good the tracks are. All of the songs are just flat out brilliant. Great car music as well!!! There's nothing like blasting "Momentum" while driving into a parking lot.... Question to readers: So is her next cd, Bachelor No. 2, still waiting to be released? Is it worth it to buy the preview EP? I'm in no rush to hear the new stuff, cause it's gonna take me awhile to digest the soundtrack. And, what all EP's and singles are worth searching for? I have Til Tuesday's first album, but I'm waiting on purchasing the other two. I'm scared they'll just be too retro for me. "Save me from the ranks, from the freaks who suspect they could never love anyone"--Aimee Mann "Save Me" thanks, PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 02:38:24 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #11 Buy the promo of Bachlor #2, it's worth it, even for the version of Nothing Is Good Enough with Aimee singing. And buy the fulllenght one too, when it comes out two weeks from now. Everythings Diffrent Now and Welcome Home really aren't retro, especially EDN. Aimee was moving away from Til Tuesday's original style on those albums and that was a good thing. EDN antisapates her solo work a lot. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 02:42:59 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Aimee Mann/'Til Tuesday Phil wrote: > Question to readers: So is her next cd, Bachelor No. 2, still waiting >to be released? Is it worth it to buy the preview EP? I'm in no rush to >hear the new stuff, cause it's gonna take me awhile to digest the soundtrack. According to Aimee's web site, _Bachelor No. 2_ is scheduled to be released later this month or in early February, although a recent article on Aimee stated that the release would happen in March. The web site doesn't always get updated right away, so the information on it could be out-of-date, but either way, the release of the album isn't very far off. The songs on the preview EP are as good -- and is some cases better -- as those on the _Magnolia_ soundtrack. I've had the EP since August or thereabouts, and I still listen to it almost daily. I guess whether or not it's worth getting depends on whether or not you can wait the few weeks for the album, since everything on the EP will be on it as well. At the same time, it'd almost be worth it to get it now just to be able to hear songs like "Red Vines" and the version of "Nothing Is Good Enough" with vocals that much sooner. Tough call. >And, what all EP's and singles are worth searching for? All of the singles are out-of-print now, unfortunately, but you might be able to find them used if you look around enough. A couple of b-sides have also appeared on compilations that are still available; the best of these is "Driving With One Hand On The Wheel," which originally appeared as a b-side on the "Long Shot" single and is one of Aimee's best songs, and can be found on the _Safe and Sound_ benefit compilation, which is also worth getting for the exclusive tracks from Juliana Hatfield, Mary Lou Lord and Jen Trynin. A b-side from the _Whatever_ era, "Jimmy Hoffa Jokes," can be found on the _Modern Day Storytellers_ compilation, which also features songs from Liz ("X-Ray Man"), Ani DiFranco, Matthew Sweet, and Fiona Apple. A cover of "Baby Blue" that appeared on the single for "I Should've Known" is also included on a Badfinger tribute album that I believe is still in print; if not, it shouldn't be too hard to find used or possibly in a cut-out bin. >I have Til >Tuesday's first album, but I'm waiting on purchasing the other two. I'm >scared they'll just be too retro for me. No need to worry; the first 'Til Tuesday album is by far the one that sounds the most dated. Unfortunately, it is also the one that people are most familiar with since the subsequent records didn't do as well, and as a result, many aren't aware that the later material did not sound anything like "Voices Carry." Starting with the second album, _Welcome Home_, Aimee started to take more control over the songwriting, writing much of the material on her own and starting to play not just bass but acoustic guitar on the records, moving the band slowly into more organic territory. Not everything on _Welcome Home_ works, and there are a couple of tracks that aren't that great of a departure, but it is a much better album than the first. Generally, the songs that Aimee wrote on her own, such as "Coming Up Close," are the better offerings, while the ones she wrote with other band members don't always work as well. The third album, _Everything's Different Now_, is by far 'Til Tuesday's best, although it was a band record in name only. One by one, the other members of the band (with the exception of drummer Michael Hausman) had left, and 'Til Tuesday pretty much meant just Aimee and whoever she was collaborating with at the moment. One of those collaborators just happened to be Elvis Costello, who admired her songwriting so much that he approached her with the idea of writing together. The result was "(The Other End of the) Telescope," which is one great song on an album filled with great songs. The album was a huge departure for Aimee, more folk-pop than synth-driven, and most of it still holds up well, even though there are a few production choices that seem very much of their time, although not as much as on the previous records. Call it the first step toward the path Aimee's travelled with her solo records; just don't dismiss it too soon because it bears the name 'Til Tuesday on it. "Build That Wall" on the _Magnolia_ soundtrack is a song that was recorded for a fourth 'Til Tuesday album, which never came to be. Think of it as an example of how far they came from their "Voices Carry" roots, although keep in mind that many of the songs on _Everything's Different Now_ are far superior to it. And since I'm already on the subject of Aimee, I thought I'd mention that the Golden Globe awards air next Sunday night, and she is nominated for Best Original Song for "Save Me." I don't know whether these awards are like the Oscars, where the nominated songs are performed, but in case they are, it might be worth tuning in to catch Aimee. Hell, even if she doesn't perform, I'll be watching just in the hopes that she'll win -- there has to be some justice in the world.... Cheers, Jase ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- "Oh, by the way, don't you know that I could make a dream that's barely half-awake come true?" - Aimee Mann, "Coming Up Close" ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 03:55:58 -0500 From: "Bob Lucier" Subject: CDNOW Editors' Top 10 Alternate/Indie Albums of the Decade CDNOW Editors' Top 10 Alternate/Indie Albums of the Decade: No. 1 -- Nirvana: Nevermind No. 2 -- Liz Phair: Exile in Guyville No. 3 -- Radiohead: OK Computer No. 4 -- Beck: Odelay No. 5 -- Nine Inch Nails: The Downward Spiral No. 6 -- Pavement: Slanted and Enchanted No. 7 -- Afghan Whigs: Gentlemen No. 8 -- Oasis: (What's the Story) Morning Glory No. 9 -- P.J. Harvey: To Bring You My Love No. 10 -- Hole: Live Through This CDNOW Editors' Top Alternative/Indie Albums of 1999: No. 1 -- XTC: Vol. 1 – Apple Venus No. 2 -- Beth Orton: Central Reservation No. 3 -- Built to Spill: Keep It Like a Secret No. 4 -- Flaming Lips: The Soft Bulletin No. 5 -- Fountains of Wayne: Utopia Parkway ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:11:01 -0600 From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: selling out? >SELLING OUT: from what i've read and/or skimmed, there's been alot of >talk of NIN, Filter, Liz, etc. "selling out" ...so i'd like to pose the >question: At what point do you think an artist sells out? yeah, no kidding, we do seem to get an awful lot of talk about artists selling out around here, be it liz last month, or filter this month, and I, for one, am sick of it. apparently, liz may have sold out with "polyester bride" and filter seems to have done so with their new single. the moment an artist who was once an underground original has a song on mtv, or gets major radio play, or more than one person you know has heard and likes the song, then suddenly, that artist has sold out. I guess britney and backstreet sold out from the moment they stepped into the studio, and yanni will never sell out because his music will never go mainstream. I think the term selling out was created by some schmuck who got pissed that his little band that he loved was suddenly discovered by someone other than himself and his group of loyal devotees. people run around bitching because no one appreciates their music, but the moment someone else does, the artist has sold out. no one ever stops to think that maybe this artist is happy with the songs they are writing. don't you think liz wants to write songs that lots of people will like? but I think she wants to do it her own way. that to me means she isn't selling out. you want a sell out? look at sugar ray, who made an album named 14:59, who admitted that they would gladly write the music people want to hear. they used to be some kind of hard-core metal band and then along came that single, "fly." but do I disrespect them? not at all. I willing to bet they're having fun and making money for it. so, all you people who are whining about your band selling out, stop and think about why you are saying that. is it because you don't like their new style, because more than ten people like them, what? and after you decide, then I want you to stop selling out yourself, doctor, lawyer, college student, corporate clone, mcdonald's employee that you are. go out and make an underground living for yourself. stay true to your art, or shut up about selling out. "I am joe's clenching bowels" jake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:07:25 -0800 (PST) From: Andy Peters Subject: EIG re-issue EMI/Capitol (Liz's new label) is re-releasing "Exile in Guyville" next week. This is sort of the 2nd-re-release of this record. About 2 years ago, Matador re-released the album at a price that was lower-than-average for retail, as part of a series of re-releases of Matador's "greatest hits" albums. Matador's re-release, however, could be viewed as simply clearing out their excess inventories, and therefor might not be considered a true re-release. As for the EMI/Capitol re-release next week, does this portend an accelerated release date for "An Evening With Liz Phair", or perhaps the release of a live album, or an album of studio outtakes and other previously unreleased songs? Perhaps the "EIG" re-release will have some previously unreleased tracks. All fodder for speculation. Andy Peters Decatur, Ga. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:31:34 EST From: Jessica1129@aol.com Subject: SELL OUT In response to Ray's question: At what point do you think an artist sells out? My personal opinion is that only certain musicians are capable of selling out, and those are the ones whos music and/or personal views start off as being a anti-music-industry or anti-establishment and then change to being pro any/all those things once they become famous.....i.e. Korn in the Calvin Klein adds. But I don't think an artist who simply becomes famous and has their songs played on major radio stations is a sell out, I think that's just succeeding in the music industry. Jessica ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:35:39 -0800 (PST) From: Meow Grrl Subject: from the depths of a saturn return So in a hotel room in Los Angeles this past weekend, I opened the door to a guy named Ted. I met him through this mailing list (Well, almost, but it WAS completely Liz and Internet-related – Hi Jaime, if you’re lurking!) – and this was the first time we saw each other in the flesh. I’ve met people via the net before (I did that personals thing), but this was the first time I’d met someone where our primary connection was a love of an artist – in this case, Liz. The first thing he did was hand me two Liz CDs he’d burned for me. The world is a pretty damn cool place, isn’t it? I’ve been speed-lurking for a while while waiting for my life to calm down (I’m almost ready to fulfill Phairplay requests), and with the lack of real Liz news on the digest, I have to say I really appreciate when the older (read: late 20s and above) folks write in. I’m so bad with names, and I don’t want to mention any for fear of leaving out the others, but you all know who you are. I just turned 29 two weeks ago and am feeling mighty old. I find myself judging people’s age by whether or not I can detect their laugh lines these days. And anyone else have a ton of friends get engaged over Y2K? Yikes! What the fuck? I thought I liked being single, but now I’m feeling like I’m behind … I never have before. Also, anyone else in the midst of their Saturn return? Every 28 years the stars return to the same position they were when you were born; according to many, ages 27 ½- 29 ½ is a time of great life changes. (Didn’t Liz get married when she was 28?) Any older folks feel like emailing me about this, please do -- I’m all over that these days. I hung out with an old squeeze over the weekend as well, a guitarist I long-distance dated for a couple of years. (Make him happy and tell me you remember his band -- anyone ever heard of They Eat Their Own?) Anyway, it occurred to me recently -- I can’t believe that I have exes that I dated as an ADULT that I met EIGHT years ago. I have never been so anti-age. I’m starting to scare myself!!! Sorry to rant, just thought I’d find some kindred spirits on the Lizst. Wallowing, Sandra NP: (appropriately) That 70s Show Soundtrack – Disc 2. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 00 10:02:07 -0800 From: "Al" Subject: Re: Subject: Aimee Mann (skip if you're not interested) Hey Jason thanks for the review of Magnolia. I was one of the lucky people to be able to see Aimee perform this past Saturday at Borders Bookstore in Santa Monica. Awesome! She was right there in front of me and my friend Mike. She's amazing. We also waited in line for her autograph and a picture. It was funny, we had someone take our picture as Aimee was signing our cd covers and there was a huge line behind us and the woman taking our picture didn't know that she had to hold down the lil black button for a few seconds so we held up the line for a good minute or two as I had to show her a couple of times what to do. I think Aimee saw our frustration and ended up standing up and posing with us. Very cool. I just kept saying, I'm sorry, thank you so much, I'm sorry and Mike kept saying just take the picture, picture, the picture! The woman finally figured it out and we thanked Aimee and as we began to walk away, I almost walked away without the camera. She musta thought we were freaks, it was kinda embarrassing but well worth it. Anyone else see this performance? Oh well, now I just have to see Liz perform live and get her autograph. Sixty Nine in the afternoon Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:54:25 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Sleater-Kinney I just found this blurb about the new Sleater-Kinney album on the Addicted to Noise site and thought it might be of interest to some: Sleater-Kinney CD Expected In May Punk trio Sleater-Kinney have penciled in an early May release for their fifth album, All Hands on the Bad One, manager Julie Butterfield said Thursday (Jan. 13). The album's track listing includes: "Ballad of a Ladyman," "Ironclad," "All Hands on the Bad One," "Youth Decay," "You're No Rock n Roll Fun," "#1 Must Have," "The Professional," "Was It a Lie," "Male Model," "Leave You Behind," "Milkshake n Honey," "Pompeii" and "The Swimmer." John Goodmanson, who also produced Sleater-Kinney's Dig Me Out (1997) and Call the Doctor (1996), manned the boards for the new disc. [Thurs., Jan 13, 2000 9:11 PM EST] Cheers, Jase NP: The Geraldine Fibbers, _Butch_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:26:03 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: A Diffrent take On Selling Out I've read the discussion on selling out with interst, perticurally in reguard to Filter, who I'm going to use as an example here. Filter did indeed sell out, but they were sell outs from the get go. No not because they're commerical, but a big cliche. In fact I would say all alterntive rock acts are sell outs under this definiation. There all negtive in all senses of the word, pretentious, and narcissistic. These cliche's started solidfying in the mid 80's, by the time Nirvana, STP, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam ect. came along in the early 90's they embodied all of this, so there was nothing for them to sell out to. After these bands petered out, they're came along Corn, Wimp Biscut, Kid Schlock, and Wink183, who added cock rock, one of the biggest chiche's in rock period, the backlash to women finally getting taken seriously in rock. That all culminated in the travisty that was Woodstock 99. 8 rapes, visious harrasment of women, rioting and looting, with the bands doing nothing to stop it, to the point that Zack De La Rocha basically said in an NY Times interview "well no rapes occured during Our set, so maybe none of that happened. And hey don't demonize the kids, they were only having good clean fun, rebeling agianst capitism by rioting and looting." So the next time you think some band is selling out, think about this. My thought is this-----Up Agianst the Wall Motherfucker! It's time for this shit to go, get rid of the cliche's, for a new type of rock that isn't like this. Will it happen, I sure hope so, by women, gay/lesbian people and all the other minorties that are shut out of rock. Like Tracy Chapman says, "talking about a revolution, sounds like a whisper---poor people are gonna rise up and get what's there's." Read my book Sheila Brown In Love and At Work to find out how this revolution takes place. Liz conternt, is she a sell out. No. Why not? Because she isn't a cliche, never was, never will be. There are many others I could use for examples but a few are, Aimee Mann, Michael Penn, Scott Miller, Dar Williams and the Nields. Andrea ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #12 ***********************************