From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #366 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, December 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 366 Today's Subjects: ----------------- nothin [Momus ] Melrose Place Soundtrack [Paradise79@aol.com] Aimee Mann and spelling [Peter Washington ] christmas carols [valerieb@mindspring.com] Female Liz Phans in Michigan? ["Timothy Wrobel" ] aimee mann puts subliminal messages on audio books ["Morrise, Jason" ] Here, have a review or 2 [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] petey [robert joyner ] geetar geek ? [Mark McKee ] WCSE DEMOS ["Bad Dreams" ] Mann vs. Man and can't resist poll [Miz Phair ] re: poll thingee [Mark McKee ] Peter! ["Jennifer R Rupe" ] Hi Nancy!!! ["Luu, Jennifer K" ] amy tan fan club ["mesmer izing" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:59:11 -0800 From: Momus Subject: nothin >off to serve The Man >(and don't you wish you were him?) ...hell...i thought i was ... >wassail? ...you made this up, right? c'mon now, fess up...you looked around your desk and there was this story that said something like 'i was sailing around the outback when i was suddenly accosted by elliot gordon and the alligator guy...' and you lifted it...wassail...almost as bad as my feeble attempt to make sense... >cock rock? ...isn't cock rock a cheesy porno sountrack? AND DON'T BOTHER TELLING ME YOU KNOW NOT OF WHAT I REFERENCE... >Are we going to change this to the Aimee Mann mailing >list? Lately that's all the information I have been >receiving. It's alright if you like her and all, but >I saw her video last night and thought she was kind of >boring. Why not start another mailing list exclusively >for her? ...one of life's tender little ironies...i'm just so sorry, but i really must have missed the liz content in your post...you do have some liz content, right? and yes mr. washington, you need to come on over to...yano the place... MrE - -- "Suck my dick!" - Cameron Diaz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 02:49:38 EST From: Paradise79@aol.com Subject: Melrose Place Soundtrack << Can anyone remember when Aimee's song, "That's Just What You Are" was on the credits for Melrose Place back in the mid 90's?...........I was a huge fan of the show, and they did a great job of exposing me to Aimee's music..............I think they showed clips of the video as well.......they would also play Letters to Cleo's Here and Now, which I also liked a lot........ >> I was never a fan of Melrose Place, but I bought the soundtrack because I was bound at the hip to BMG @ the time and it sounded interesting so I ordered it and I must admit it was surprisingly good. It wasn't @ all what I expected from a show of that sort. I was forced to endure a few minutes of some episode of 90210 while I was getting the oil changed and my car washed and I couldn't believe how ridiculous the music was. My husband made the comment that it must be a pretty old episode based on the music, but I told him that it was 90210, so you never know. I never realized Melrose Place actually ever played those songs on the air until someone @ my old school station mentioned that they played "Here and Now" over the credits. FYI: we played "That's Just What You Are" @ our wedding and I was shocked when one of Brad's (my husband's) friends (Keep in mind that most of his friends usually like music from the likes of Bush, the Goo Goo dolls, and that blasted City of Angels soundtrack) came over to me and said, "Hey, did I hear some Aimee Mann in there?" He even was able to recognize the album (although I had to blush and admit that I don't actually own any Aimee albums and I had just gotten that of the Melrose Soundtrack). He then proceeded to talk about "Voices Carry" and all that fun stuff. That was right after everyone on the list had just starting discussing Aimee's relation to the 80's (I seriously never knew that was her until someone mentioned it here). Okay, back to finishing up finals and avoiding that blasted Thursday virus that some genius decided to send around. Hyphen ____disclaimer: the nonsense below is a sig and isn't aimed towards any one person. It's just my attempt at creativity. Enjoy, but please do so responsibly. Thank you.___ This e-mail was brought to you by the infamous Hyphen, the number 4, and the letter X. "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do." Visit my home page: http://members.aol.com/Paradise79/dap.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:42:32 -0500 From: Peter Washington Subject: Aimee Mann and spelling Okay, first things first. I'm not gonna waste my time and yours trying to quote any of this ridiculous Aimee Mann debate schlock, but I think we all get the picture. Every couple months someone bitches about how the list is starting to focus too much on one non-Liz topic, and Jase responds defensively. Now I don't mean to bash our host here, but seriously, were two long-winded justificatory arguments really needed to say "okay, whatever, your opinion is your opinion but it's my list and we're gonna talk about whatever we damn well want to talk about"? You should offend more people, it's fun. I don't personally even know who Aimee Mann is, but if y'all want to talk about her fine. By the way Mr. Mark, if all we talked about was Liz Phair we'd get pretty bored; she doesn't do a whole lot. Sure, she's working on an album, but how long can we all raise our collective glass to that fact before we realize that it'll still be another year until we have anything too substantial to discuss re: our favorite rock musician? Now on to more light-hearted topics. Dan wrote: > Day-JA-VOUS?? how do you spell that?) Deja vu. It's French you stupid American. And MrE wrote: > >and I got FIRST CLASS HONOURS for my course > ...wasn't perchance for spelling was it? velocity girl... It's British you stupid American. Just another stupid American tortured by the emotional highs and lows of foreploy (see below), Peter Today's Word of the Day, direct from Webster's Third New International Emergency Brake and Dictionary: paik: (vt) to strike hard and repeatedly; PUMMEL. And the second installment of the critically acclaimed fake word of the day: foreploy: (n) anything done in an attempt to get someone into bed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:12:26 -0500 From: valerieb@mindspring.com Subject: christmas carols peter washington (welcome back!) answered: >>Someone who didn't feel like telling us his or her name wrote: > What is the title of the song the contains "Tidings of comfort and > joy"? God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen. which is definitely correct. and i had answered "here we come a'wassailing", and started to second-guess myself after reading your answer, but isn't that the song that's all upbeat and goes "love and joy come to you....(something something something)...and bring tidings of comfort and joy, comfort and joy"? GRYMG is cool though, 'cause its all somber... yay! ken lee (my vote for busiest man in 1999) for getting caught up on sending demos! >they would also play Letters to Cleo's Here and Now, which I also >liked a lot........ ...ya know, i can't remember how that song goes for the life of me... sandra, you tease...i'm looking forward to your 'jealousy' question! i really have nothing of interest to say, so i'll spare you all any more babbling... secretly barefoot under my desk and feeling naughty... valerie np: tori, 'pele' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:17:18 EST From: "Timothy Wrobel" Subject: Female Liz Phans in Michigan? Hi all, Just recently, the mother of my month old son left me and took him with her. She is refusing to let me see him which has brought up a big court battle. Then today, she comes while im at work and steals my stuff out of my home and the police say theres nothing I can do about it because shes concidered a resident here since she lived here more then a month. I'm really feeling down about the whole situation and would really like someone to talk to to take my mind off things. If any female Liz Phans from Michigan would like to hang out or talk on the phone/online that would be great. It would make me feel a lot better having a friend to talk to who shares the same interests in Liz as me. The worse part is I had all 4 of Liz's highschool yearbooks and she stole those as well :( Im a 20 year old male from Romulus. Thanks, Tim ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:42:31 -0600 From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: aimee mann puts subliminal messages on audio books mark wrote about not liking aimee mann and finding her boring after he saw one video. I know that jase has already jumped to her defense, but what I wanted to share was my experience as a new aimee mann listener. based on suggestions on this list, I have discovered several new artists. some I like a lot, some I don't care for. aimee was one that came highly recommended, and so I really want to like her. and I do, she has grown on me as I have listened to "whatever" and "I'm with stupid," her first two albums (I think, right?). anyway, what I'm getting at is that when I first bought eig and ws, I can't say I was immediately hooked. I bought them because I had heard supernova and rolling stone sure seemed to like liz, and I like finding new artists, but there was something there beyond the typical hoopla over the "next big thing." and that is what eventually hooked me on liz, and it will probably hook me on aimee as well. and what I was wondering is if you were hooked on liz the first time you heard one of her songs. and what about the opposite, when you think the first song you hear is great, and it turns out the rest of the album sucks? I guess all I'm getting at is that maybe people in general should give artists more than one listen before condemning them. speaking of books (a recent topic), has anyone here read "the last of the savages?" and I've started reading "the last rock star book" finally. and as for subliminal messages, I think you could probably go with a different kind for each album. eig might have some stuff about fucking your boyfriend over (for her) or to turn you into a miserable wreck (for him). but maybe I'm not creative enough. jake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:01:05 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Baby Got Going live Did anyone go to see Liz in New Orleans earlier this year when she opened for Alanis? The reason I ask is because it was the one and only time that Liz played "Baby Got Going" live, according to Janet Jains. I was just curious as to if it sounded good live? Anybody know? Craig "AdRock" NP: MTV 120 Minutes Live ****************************************************** Maybe I forgot all things I miss Oh somehow I know there's more to life than this - Kid Rock_'Only God Knows Why' ****************************************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:12:18 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Here, have a review or 2 Hi everybody, Website(zine?) Nude as the News has been ceremoniously (that is, slooowly) unveiling its 100 Most Compelling Albums of the 90s list, and wouldn't you know it, Exile made #6. Below is a link to a capsule review of the record, with a link at the bottom to the "full review" (click on that). I especially like the graphic they created using the liner notes photos. I want to print it out and make a t-shirt. (Anyone know if it can be done? E-mail me, PLEASE.) http://www.nudeasthenews.com/compelling/toptensplashes/06Exile.htm Thanks to groundbreaking luminary Meredith Robbins, I also feel comfortable posting an old review of _spaceegg_, which I feel is so on-the-money it just *has* to be passed on. Herein lie some of the most accurate descriptions of Liz Phair (or the "concept" of Liz Phair, if you will) I've come across. My favorite part is when the reviewer praises the always-underappreciated "Love Is Nothing". Enjoy! From _Puncture_ Liz Phair, "Whitechocolatespaceegg" by J Neo Marvin Amazing what rumors have been flying over why it took so long to make this album, as if it was some big mystery. Hey, you try taking care of a newborn infant and finishing your difficult third album at the same time and see how well you do. Maybe the marriage and kid were just what Liz Phair needed: an inescapable reason to slow down an exploding career and rediscover why she started making music in the first place. Liz Phair, more than any other rock star at her level of fame, has always seemed like someone who began with almost no ambitions beyond entertaining herself. If you listen to the bootlegged Girlysound tapes that created the initial buzz around her before she had ever even played in public, you hear a young woman for whom music appears to be nothing more than a fun hobby. The talent is there, and it's tremendous, but she genuinely does not seem to care. The same blithe, quizzical attitude seems to have stayed with Phair since Exile in Guyville became an indie cause celèbre, and I think this has a lot to do with what infuriates many people about her. Call her genius or fraud, feminist heroine or bimbo, it all rolls off her back. Unlike Kurt Cobain, who was stung by every twist of fame and took every "sellout" accusation to heart, Liz Phair shrugs her shoulders, admits she's just winging it, and never apologizes for her mistakes. Maybe it comes from a well of inner strength, or just a daughter of privilege's inherent sense of entitlement (or a bit of both), but there's something admirable in her unflappability. Even when she's singing the most flippant, silly lyrics, she has more important things on her mind than the banal career pressures that eventually kill off most famous people's muses. The time away has served her well; after the oddly strained Whip Smart, she sounds like she's having fun again. Culled from years of sessions with a posse of co-producers, whitechocolatespaceegg is a sprawling mess—the good kind, like a big mixed plate of Ethiopian food. The best thing to do is just grab your injera and dive right in; there's so much good stuff here that you can easily overlook the things you don't care for—someone else will undoubtedly go for those. We begin as perversely as possible, with two songs that sound like they wandered in from some other album. They're pretty decent in a late-Pixies-meet-a-far-less-annoying-Smashing-Pumpkins way, but they sure don't sound much like Liz Phair, except for that unmistakable Dry Voice on top. Then we're thrown another curve with "Perfect World," a finger-picked acoustic ballad with strings, followed by "Johnny Feelgood," which could almost be Phair-by-numbers if it weren't so damn catchy. At this point, the production is tossed around between Scott Litt (who brings in his main clients REM to help out on the otherwise unremarkable "Fantasize"), Phair's old sidekick Brad Wood (who's grown far more skillful and subtle in his use of electronic sounds), and the artist herself (on the album's two best songs… she does a fine job, too; maybe she should try producing the next one on her own). To my ears, the 16-song CD doesn't really get going until track 5, the cheesy but irresistible "Polyester Bride," which could be racing up the charts a short time from now. From that point onward, we are in prime Liz Phair territory as tricky, hooky tunes and sly lyrics tumble out one after another. (There's one more cheese-break on the Phair/Litt-credited "Baby Got Going," which sounds like Liz burst into the studio laughing, "Get a load of these ridiculous macho train/truck lyrics I just made up" and Scott replied "Cool, let's write a rockabilly song!") The arrangements are colorful and rich yet sparse, never stepping on Phair's low, conversational vocals, though the moving Stonesy ballad "Only Son" (Wilco should cover this one) is badly marred by some frankly pitiful drumming; how was that allowed to get by? Four songs in particular deserve to be called classic: "Love Is Nothing" offers three melodically distinct verses revolving around the contagious, wise chorus, "Love is nothing, nothing, nothing like they say"; the quietly anthemic "Uncle Alvarez" wryly tells the story of a family embarrassed by a rogue uncle, whose pathological lying haunts a descendant padding his résumé (I think); "What Makes You Happy" is a dialogue between mother and daughter that ingeniously uses jarring key changes (a Phair trademark) to illustrate two points of view that never quite connect (and rocks harder when it's Mom's turn to speak!). My own favorite is "Shitloads of Money," the set's one Girlysound remake (her first two albums had several apiece). What's done to this old song is astonishing. The original's jokey tone is replaced with sad resignation as Phair sings how even the most idealistic and non-materialistic among us still need money simply to function. (Imagine Madonna rerecording "Material Girl" as a sorrow-laden critique of capitalism!) Finding new resonance in one's most lightweight early material… that's a sign of artistic growth if anything is. —J Neo Marvin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 09:42:00 -0800 (PST) From: robert joyner Subject: petey peter washington wrote: Okay, first things first. I'm not gonna waste my time and yours trying to quote any of this ridiculous Aimee Mann debate schlock, gee, thanks there pete. better to waste my time by quoting these two gems. > Day-JA-VOUS?? how do you spell that?) > >and I got FIRST CLASS HONOURS for my course > ...wasn't perchance for spelling was it? velocity girl... Robert Joyner ===== I'm Only Happy When It's Rains http://www.geocities.com/janetrains2000/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:09:52 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: geetar geek ? Yall know what effect box makes that neat shimmering sound on Liz's guitar? Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:26:41 PST From: "Bad Dreams" Subject: WCSE DEMOS >If you want to know the song titles and/or the history >behind them, let me know, and I'll post a long-windedstory. ;)- -Ken Some of you might hate me for saying this, but, yeah let's hear it. Louis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:17:14 -0800 (PST) From: Miz Phair Subject: Mann vs. Man and can't resist poll Hi all- Just wanted to pipe in my opinion on the debate, which really has no relevance. (That'll keep you reading.) I personally love hearing about other artists - since all of you are so cool to not only love Liz, but also be on a mailing list for her! I'm batting about 50-50 in trying out Support System artists. So far, I like: 1. Beck (Didn't like "Loser," but I love the new album!) 2. Jen Trynin Didn't like: 1. Aimee Mann (I keep trying and will even test out the Magnolia soundtrack to try again - I just have a hellacious fear of anything sounding like Til Tuesday. I've heard her solo stuff, but haven't cottoned to her ... yet.) 2. Diane Izzo So keep telling us who you're listening to! And... since everyone else in the free world is doing it and I know we did top single of the decade, how about most important albums (to you personally of the decade)? Mine: 1. Liz Phair - Exile in Guyville 2. Jeff Buckley - Grace 3. Tori Amos - Boys for Pele 4. Nirvana - Nevermind 5. Liz Phair - Whip-Smart 6. Pearl Jam - Vs. 7. Garbage - Garbage 8. Ben Folds Five - Whatever and Ever, Amen 9. Liz Phair - whitechocolatespaceegg 10. Maria McKee - You Gotta Sin to Get Saved (Absolutely Barking Stars may be better, but I like this one more...) paige- ===== I'm obsessed, I'm a wreck, I'm insane. Isn't that what you want me to say? Don't you need to feel my blood on the tracks today? - --Liz Phair, "Blood Keeper" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:01:01 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: re: poll thingee no order: Smashing Pumpkins Mellon collie... Pavement Westing... Guided by Voices Alien Lanes Nirvana Nevermind Weezer S/T Liz Exile Nirvana In Utero Sebadoh Bakesale Raincoats S/T (reissue) My Bloody Valentine Loveless Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:25:23 -0600 From: "Jennifer R Rupe" Subject: Peter! Peter - You are such a sweet boy! Too bad we all can't be as perfect and as clever as you... >Straight down to business. > >Someone who didn't feel like telling us his or her name wrote: >> What is the title of the song the contains "Tidings of comfort and >> joy"? >God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen. > >In a highly inauspicious (or auspicious, depending on your sense of >humor) spacing coincidence, Phairweather (what is it with all the >anonymous types?) wrote: >> Liz is a crack-whore. thank you. the end. >Thanks for the info, PW (those are my initials too!) Now I'm really >into Liz, what with my deep love of both crack and whores. Sweet. > >Nancy Ferguson (finally, a name) wrote: >> hello liz phair people! ok, this is the funniest thing since >> sqeeze-cheese.............. >First of all, the link went nowhere. Secondly, uh, what? > >Peter > >Today's Word of the Day, direct from Webster's Third New International >Oil Platform and Dictionary: >cliffless: (adj) lacking cliffs. > >Also, a new and likely to be short-lived feature, the fake word of the >day: >reintarnation: (n) coming back to life as a hillbilly. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:17:36 -0500 From: "Luu, Jennifer K" Subject: Hi Nancy!!! Yo yo...with all this talk about "The Matrix" I just had to put in a plug for "American Beauty." I don't see movies too often, but it's the best one I've seen in a while... ...Now about Aimee Mann, I have been a fan of her since 'Til Tuesday and lemme just say, I LOVE IT when Jase talks about her so lovingly and articulately :)...so, just so you know, you rock my world, Jase. I did catch her on 120 Minutes the other night and I did think it was a brilliant song...I haven't purchased the soundtrack yet...but I'm working on it...and to the guy who mentioned how "That's Just What You Are" is on The Melrose Place Soundtrack..well, I think the show is nonsense, but I do totally remember that...I always liked the Melrose Place version better than the album version..I mean, I know the differences are miniscule..and I can't even remember all the differences right now, but..she didn't count off at the beginning and I think I thought the ending was cooler too..like, cooler organ or less organ or more organ, or SOMETHING w/ the organ that made me like the MP version better...and I like "Here and Now" by Letters to Cleo too...the first time I heard that, I thought Kay Hanley sounded exactly like Juliana Hatfield..sorry if someone's already said that or something... ...Whoever was talking about that "Joy Luck Club" stuff...OF COURSE you should read the book!! I haven't even read the book, but YOU SHOULD ALWAYS READ THE BOOK. THE BOOK IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN THE MOVIE... ...And one more Ode to Jason..I thoroughly enjoyed your justification for lack of a better word for all the Aimee Mann discussion...I was chuckling quite a bit..:) ... > << "...I don't want to sell anything, buy anything or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed or buy anything sold or processed or repair anything sold, bought or processed as a career. I don't want to do that." > > --"Say Anything" >> > > meredith you rock!! john cusack is my god next to dean wareham. ...HA!!! Just wanted to say I love that movie as well as John and Joan too... And last, but not least, THOSE LIZ PICS ARE AMAZING!!!!! THANK YOU KEN!!!! - -Jennifer - -- Luu, Jennifer K luujk@jmu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 03:49:44 GMT From: "mesmer izing" Subject: amy tan fan club i'm reading the joy luck club now. =) nathan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #366 ************************************