From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #365 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, December 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 365 Today's Subjects: ----------------- correction [jake ] correction [jake ] whatever... [Momus ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #364 [Peter Washington ] the next big thing in wassailing [valerieb@mindspring.com] RE: support-system-digest V2 #364 [Kelly Warner ] Re: Melrose Place [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: Name Change? [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: Name Change? [Jason Long ] Matrix/Old Songs/New Album/An Evening.. [Dan ] girlson.com and cd burning [Meow Grrl ] Re: Name Change? [Mark McKee ] Re: Name Change? [Jason Long ] A Random Question [Liz Gould ] Joy Luck Club [Shelly ] i love it! [MangoHula@aol.com] new scans at Mesmerizing [Kenneth Lee ] wcse sessions [Kenneth Lee ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: jake Subject: correction thanks to "no one" for catching my fuck up. he/she was right in telling me shitloads of money is an update of money, not combo platter. I was half-listening to girlysounds for only the third time, and one comes after the other, and basically, I spoke too soon. and I must disagree on your matrix bashing nicole. not only has it drawn rave reviews from several critics, but the special effects fit prefectly into the movie, something that cannot be said of most action packed special effects extravganzas. you say you didn't watch the movie, so how would you know that all of the action takes place in a virtual world, where of course it won't seem realistic. if you want bad special effects that look really fake, try watching escape from new york or escape from l.a. by john carpenter. and I'm not bashing him, the effects are purposefully bad, just like the acting and the lines. jake __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:21:32 -0800 (PST) From: jake Subject: correction thanks to "no one" for catching my fuck up. he/she was right in telling me shitloads of money is an update of money, not combo platter. I was half-listening to girlysounds for only the third time, and one comes after the other, and basically, I spoke too soon. and I must disagree on your matrix bashing nicole. not only has it drawn rave reviews from several critics, but the special effects fit perfectly into the movie, something that cannot be said of most action packed special effects extravganzas. you say you didn't watch the movie, so how would you know that all of the action takes place in a virtual world, where of course it won't seem realistic. if you want bad special effects that look really fake, try watching escape from new york or escape from l.a. by john carpenter. and I'm not bashing him, the effects are purposefully bad, just like the acting and the lines. jake __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 22:46:22 -0800 From: Momus Subject: whatever... >The Matrix is the best movie I've ever seen. ...god help us...we got this in stereo... >Maybe that's just me. ...and god help me 'cause i'm feeling a wee bit caustic tonight...but i'm just gonna let you off with a warning here that the thugs are coming out to play... and hey, was that seano that said something about crack whores? seems the only crack my good friend seano would know about is the ice during spring thaw. YEH, I KNOW HE DIDN'T SAY IT! GODAMMIT, IT WAS THE VERY LEAST VITRIOLIC REMARK I COULD COME UP WITH! SO SUE ME!! I'M TRYING AGAINST THIS EVENING'S ODDS TO BE CIVIL! AND BESIDES, SEANO OWES ME FOR HAVING SENT THAT NINE HUNDRED PAGE DOCUMENT TO ME VIA E-MAIL!! >I was looking through a music instrument shop catalogue >today and all the models with guitars were male! ...i was looking through a publication of higher learning today and all the models with instruments were female...sorry... >and I got FIRST CLASS HONOURS for my course ...wasn't perchance for spelling was it? velocity girl... could someone please tell me the titles of a few of the newer aimee mann tunes that stick out as being exceptional. i have just been burned so badly with music purchases this year that i refuse to buy without first taking a test drive...other titles by other artists are welcome also...unless you're gonna bash metallica...or buttney... mild and god help me unspiced MrE - -- "Suck my dick!" - Cameron Diaz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:53:29 -0500 From: Peter Washington Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #364 Straight down to business. Someone who didn't feel like telling us his or her name wrote: > What is the title of the song the contains "Tidings of comfort and > joy"? God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen. In a highly inauspicious (or auspicious, depending on your sense of humor) spacing coincidence, Phairweather (what is it with all the anonymous types?) wrote: > Liz is a crack-whore. thank you. the end. Thanks for the info, PW (those are my initials too!) Now I'm really into Liz, what with my deep love of both crack and whores. Sweet. Nancy Ferguson (finally, a name) wrote: > hello liz phair people! ok, this is the funniest thing since > sqeeze-cheese.............. First of all, the link went nowhere. Secondly, uh, what? Peter Today's Word of the Day, direct from Webster's Third New International Oil Platform and Dictionary: cliffless: (adj) lacking cliffs. Also, a new and likely to be short-lived feature, the fake word of the day: reintarnation: (n) coming back to life as a hillbilly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:37:59 -0500 From: valerieb@mindspring.com Subject: the next big thing in wassailing a few thoughts (sans other digests in front of me, so all apologies for omissions): saw aimee mann on 120 minutes last night - i know jase doesn't think that was the 'most accessible' song, but having no knowledge of the rest, i thought it was phenomonal! the last aimee mann song i'd heard was the one from a few years ago (the name of which is escaping me right now) that got quite a bit of airplay on college radio...i could defintiely become a mann fann... >What is the title of the song the contains "Tidings of comfort and >joy"? ...i think its called "here we come a'wassailing"...i assume a 'wassail' is a christmas carol? chuckling to myself about all the discussion of the 'manila envelope' title (and yes, i sniffed fresh 'dittos' too!)...when i suggested it, i just looked on my desk to find something random to call the album, indicating i didn't give a shit what it was called. since then, i've decided it is indeed a cool title (kinda like a plain brown wrapper). vasant - thanks for explaining, everyone is happy now! welcome back to my favorite smartass, dsotm... you're right, i don't think i really dig the new 'cock rock' (rap metal) in more than small doses. you're a music guy, i'm a lyric gal, and it just doesn't speak to me. i mean, it's fun to sing along to sometimes, but i'd never spend my money on it. like any genre (hair metal, grunge, whatever), there are a couple great bands/originators, and then everyone else has to jump on the bandwagon, saturating our once pure (in my mind, anyway) airwaves until we scream "enough already!" and move on to The Next Big Thing. is rap metal a backlash to the recent mainstream trend toward recognizing female artists? is it a millenium thing? who knows, but its here for a while, so we might as well suck it up. liz content...i'll admit that in the past, when i would read about people having liz dreams, i would roll my eyes a little and wonder if you all had lives (sorry, just being honest). i've been humbled, and apologize for my silent mockery. yes, i had a liz dream. no big whoop, but she was putting on a concert in the backyard of the house i grew up in, and i was young in my dream, and we hung out. no major details. weird ,b/c i seldom even dream about people i know well, and i've *never* dreamt about a famous person... oh...quick note to beck fans...a cassette he put out before *he* was a Big Thing, called 'golden feelings' has been released on CD. it is available at www.parasol.com for $15 (i just ordered one for an x-mas gift). off to serve The Man (and don't you wish you were him?)... valerie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:05:17 -0600 From: Kelly Warner Subject: RE: support-system-digest V2 #364 Sally, in response to your question about whether Joy Luck Club is worth reading after you've seen the movie...ABSOLUTELY! Although the movie was excellent, it naturally did not cover the whole scope of the book. The book is of course much more in-depth & detail-oriented. But having seen the movie first will give you an interesting perspective–you'll notice what parts the movie left out, and also see which parts they saw fit to embellish. It was a beautiful movie adapted from a breathtaking book. Enjoy! Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:03:47 EST From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: Melrose Place Can anyone remember when Aimee's song, "That's Just What You Are" was on the credits for Melrose Place back in the mid 90's?...........I was a huge fan of the show, and they did a great job of exposing me to Aimee's music..............I think they showed clips of the video as well.......they would also play Letters to Cleo's Here and Now, which I also liked a lot........ just starting conversation, PHIL - --- "someone's got to break the ice and it might as well be me, I mean I'm used to be being a hostess as part of my husband's work and it's always difficult, when a group of friends meet for the first time to get acquainted, so I'm perfectly prepared to start the ball rolling....I mean, I have absolutely no idea what we're doing here, or what I'm doing here or what this place is about, but I'm determined to enjoy myself, and I'm very intrigued, and oh my the soup's delicious isn't it?..." -Mrs. Peacock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:00:02 EST From: Pocee@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #364 In a message dated 12/13/1999 1:10:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << What is the title of the song the contains "Tidings of comfort and joy"? >> Hi Bad Dreams, It is from what is perhaps my favorite Christmas Hymm, "God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman". It has been a favorite since it was used at the end of the Royal Shakespere Company's production of Dickens, "Nicolas Nickelby" to represent our need to lift up the poor to a better life. Merry Christmas. Pat O'Connor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:45:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: Name Change? Are we going to change this to the Aimee Mann mailing list? Lately that's all the information I have been receiving. It's alright if you like her and all, but I saw her video last night and thought she was kind of boring. Why not start another mailing list exclusively for her? Mark - --- RocketBoyD@aol.com wrote: > Can anyone remember when Aimee's song, "That's > Just What You Are" was on > the credits for Melrose Place back in the mid > 90's?...........I was a huge > fan of the show, and they did a great job of > exposing me to Aimee's > music..............I think they showed clips of the > video as well.......they > would also play Letters to Cleo's Here and Now, > which I also liked a > lot........ > > > just starting conversation, > > PHIL > > --- "someone's got to break the ice and it might > as well be me, I mean > I'm used to be being a hostess as part of my > husband's work and it's always > difficult, when a group of friends meet for the > first time to get acquainted, > so I'm perfectly prepared to start the ball > rolling....I mean, I have > absolutely no idea what we're doing here, or what > I'm doing here or what this > place is about, but I'm determined to enjoy myself, > and I'm very intrigued, > and oh my the soup's delicious isn't it?..." -Mrs. > Peacock > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:47:30 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: Melrose Place The video for That's Just What You Are was very good, I liked the roller skates in it. Never saw Cleo's video, but I love the band, Here And Now was my first exposure to them. They do some of their best work for comps. Like Let's Get High from the hemplation 2 comp, a benfit for Normal, the pot leagalzation people. Another was Safe And Sound, a benfit for Boston pro choice groups, issued in the wake of the Bookline shootings of two women who worked at women's health clinics by pro life terrorist John Salvi. There was a series of concerts of the same name in that city for the same purpose. it's a Boston sampler, every one from Cleo, who do Skruffy the Cat's You Dirty Rat, to Aimee Mann with Driving With One Hand On The Wheel to Julianna Hatfield who does Waves. Andrea aweiss4338@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:51:19 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: Name Change? Some of us already are :). it's the Mannlist, anyone whose enjoying the Aimee discussion can sign on. Go to aimeemann.com for more information/subscription. Andrea aweiss4338@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:06:48 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Name Change? Mark wrote: >Are we going to change this to the Aimee Mann mailing >list? Lately that's all the information I have been >receiving. It's alright if you like her and all, but >I saw her video last night and thought she was kind of >boring. Why not start another mailing list exclusively >for her? First of all, everyone who subscribes to this list receives a welcome message that states that we are not an exclusively on-topic list. Discussions of other artists or any number of other subjects are welcome. You can always skip over any posts that are not of interest to you. Secondly, Liz simply isn't doing much right now, so there's not a lot to discuss that's directly related to her. We do know that she's working on a new album, we have heard the proposed title for the record and a potential release period, and some of us have heard some of the new material at shows or on live tapes, but other than that, we know very few details. It doesn't give us a lot to discuss. Also, we have long threads about other artists on this list all the time, some even less related to Liz than Aimee is. For example, I'm not really a fan of Tori Amos, but during the discussions about her a while ago, I didn't complain. I simply skipped those posts and read only those that were of more interest to me. (Sorry, Tori fans, it's nothing personal.) Aimee and Liz do seem to share a lot of the same fan base; when _I'm With Stupid_ was released in 1996, I recall a fair amount of discussion of the album on the Guyville list. Also, Aimee and Liz are fans of each other's work. When Liz met Aimee backstage at a show a few years ago, she bowed down at her feet (there's a mention of this in an article that I believe can be found on Ken's site). As for Aimee, she has said in interviews that Liz's music, _Exile in Guyville_ in particular, was a big influence on _I'm With Stupid_. If we further want to link the two artists, they do share a guitarist, Buddy Judge, and Ric Menck, the drummer in Liz's touring band, also plays on Aimee's "Nothing Is Good Enough." Okay, so maybe I'm trying a little too hard to qualify the discussions of Aimee, but still.... There must be some level of interest, or people wouldn't be responding. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy Aimee's video and feel that she was "boring," but keep in mind that the song does come from a soundtrack and was written specifically for the film. Obviously, it has to suit the tone of the movie; it can't be something totally inappropriate, having nothing to do with the plot. I already did state that this was the least accessible song on the soundtrack, and I must also say that it's not entirely representive of Aimee's music. For the most part, the _Magnolia_ soundtrack is made up of ballads and mid-tempo songs that suit the film, but Aimee does have a wider range than that, as evidenced by her previous albums. Before completely condemning her, give _I'm With Stupid_ a try -- you might be surprised. There is a mailing list for Aimee already, called Mannlist. While there are a lot of fans of Aimee on this list, perhaps not everyone is a big enough fan to join Mannlist but still would enjoy talking about her. There are plenty of bands that I really like, but for one reason or another, would not join their mailing lists (mostly due to the fact that I'm already on more lists than I can keep up with). Ultimately, rather than complain about what other people are discussing, post about something you'd like to see talked about. I think almost everything posted to this list does generate some level of reply, and who knows, you could end up starting some great threads. And hey, it beats having me respond to you like this. ;) Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Subject: Matrix/Old Songs/New Album/An Evening.. Nicole! I'm soo shocked! Didn't like the Matrix? I was totally ready to hate this movie..but I ended up loving it. I was really impressed...if nothing else, it DOES make me wonder what the hell De JaVous really is.(shit.. Day-JA-VOUS?? how do you spell that?) God..i know how to spell it, I'm just having a brain freeze right now...anyway, I thought it was much smarter than I thought it would be, and I didn't even mind Keanu in it...I liked how they kept his lines down...I thought it was interesting..and I agree...DOGMA rocked too. But, to each his own.. ********** Also - for "An Evening with..." - I too, think that the album will ultimately say "An Evening with Liz Phair" on the front cover.. I don't know...I don't think it is a bad thing..I like the idea of a conceptual album. Regardless, I have my faith in her.. As for GIRLYSOUND songs which could possibly be brought back from the dead for this album..I am crossing my fingers for "Sometimes A Dream..." and "If I Ever Pay You Back." I really wouldn't mind a nice rockin version of "DeadShark" either...you never know... And ...be kinda cool if she put "Tell Me You Like Me" or better yet - "I'm Like That." I think "I"m Like That" is such a great song..she just needs to shape it up a tiny bit..it could be brilliant.. Either way, if she doesn't release the album in the next week, I'm no longer going to be a fan, and that's final. I want it NOW, DAMMIT!!! Dan. (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) "Maybe I'm born right out of my time." -David Bowie. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:29:19 -0800 (PST) From: Meow Grrl Subject: girlson.com and cd burning To the girl who referenced girlson.com (sorry I forget who) and the "Jealousy" reference, I want you to know that I forwarded your kudos to my colleague, because his wife (they’re newly married) founded that site in her bedroom. It has since been sold to Oxygen. Speaking of Jealousy ... no wait, I need to formulate this. I plan on asking the girls about this song in the future. Oh, OK, the guys too ... In the meantime, I’ve got a question for the list: I’m buying a CD-RW an am doing my pre-buying research right now. Any suggestions for the best ones out there? Any tips or tricks the average buyer wouldn’t know? Feel free to email me privately. Thanks. - -sandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:40:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: Re: Name Change? Jase wrote: ..you could end up starting some great threads.. I think I already did. I also don't care who else thinks Aimee Man is good/great, including Liz. To me, she resembles Liz's style but in a third rate imitation kind of way - I find Liz's music far more interesting. Mann's music seems to be the same prototypical, hum-drum pop songs that will probably take rise as the ever ominous "next big thing". Also, Tori Amos, to my best recollection, wasn't really discussed to the degree at which Aimee Mann is begininng to be. Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:44:19 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Name Change? Mark wrote: >I think I already did. I also don't care who else >thinks Aimee Man is good/great, including Liz. To me, >she resembles Liz's style but in a third rate >imitation kind of way - I find Liz's music far more >interesting. Mann's music seems to be the same >prototypical, hum-drum pop songs that will probably >take rise as the ever ominous "next big thing". Also, >Tori Amos, to my best recollection, wasn't really >discussed to the degree at which Aimee Mann is >begininng to be. Aimee a third-rate imitation of Liz? How funny you base this on having heard ONE song, which isn't even representative of her work. And how ironic that Aimee has been around a whole lot longer than Liz has.... Hum-drum pop songs? Hardly. And I don't see Aimee or music like hers as being the "next big thing." If that were to happen, it would be nothing more than a brilliant accident, much like how people latched on to R.E.M. when _Out of Time_ and _Automatic for the People_ were released. Generally, I think Aimee's music is a little too quirky, sophisticated and intelligent to really catch on with the masses, much like Liz's. Funny also how you recall the Tori Amos discussions when you haven't even been on the list for very long. As the list maintainer, it's very easy for me to get a list of everyone who's subscribed to the list. The list is in chronological order and you're rather close to the bottom. Hmmm. Besides, I was only using Tori as an example. There have been even longer threads about other artists (some of which I like, others who I do not) that I could have cited instead. That's just the first that came to mind. The key thing is that on a list this big with a diverse group of subscribers, if you do not like one topic of discussion, don't bitch about it -- just skip over it and find something that interests you. By complaining, you're only dragging it out further and adding more fuel to the fire. If I like an artist, I'm not going to stop defending them when they're criticized anytime soon, and I think most other music fans are the same way. Oh, and for the record, bitching about an artist is not exactly starting a great thread. So, no, you haven't already. Cheers, Jase "It's not going to stop 'til you wise up." - Aimee Mann ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:49:40 -0800 (PST) From: Liz Gould Subject: A Random Question I was reading the digest a few days ago where someone was sarcastically discussing subliminal messages on albums or whatever, and I was thinking if Liz could put a submliminal message what do you think it would be? And then what message would you put if you could make an album and do that? It just randomly came to me... Liz "I act like I have faith, and like that faith never ends, but I really just have friends" --Dar Williams __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:59:41 -0800 From: Shelly Subject: Joy Luck Club Sally--I've not read "100 Secret Senses", nor have I watched the movie "Joy Luck Club". I always was going to, but never did...hmmm, I wonder why? Another favorite is "During the Reign of the Queen of Persia" by Joan Chase...try it, you might like it! *grin* ~gunshy~ *Embarrassingly void of Liz content--"Oh where, oh where, Are You tonight?"* Shelly NP: Tony Bennett -the Christmas one. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:44:18 EST From: MangoHula@aol.com Subject: i love it! In a message dated 12/13/1999 4:10:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << "...I don't want to sell anything, buy anything or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed or buy anything sold or processed or repair anything sold, bought or processed as a career. I don't want to do that." --"Say Anything" >> meredith you rock!! john cusack is my god next to dean wareham. i feel like a stranger and a slacker since i haven't been keeping up w/ the list.......... =( somebody needs to put me in my place. and if anyone cares i AM still alive...............write me if you feel the need. love!!!!!!!! ~lynda ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:54:35 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: new scans at Mesmerizing Hi everyone, Finally, I've finally scanned the pics and artwork(!) of Liz from Cake #23. Take a look at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/page581.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/page582.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/page583.html http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/page584.html According to our beloved list manager Jase, these scans are "definitely worth checking out". His words, not mine. Thanks again to Alison T. for the photocopies! :) I've also updated some other things, but I can't think of them at the moment. Enjoy! - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:00:09 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: wcse sessions Hi again, Update regarding the wcse sessions project: As of December 13, I have filled everyone's request for copies! I am officially caught up! So for those who want copies of the fabled wcse sessions, just send me a contribution of $10, and in return, I'll send you a lovely two-CD set of Liz goodies. Send payment to: Ken Lee P.O. Box 1972 Union City, CA 94587-6972 If you want to know the song titles and/or the history behind them, let me know, and I'll post a long-winded story. ;) - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #365 ************************************