From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #358 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, December 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 358 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Y2K - are you OK? [Brian Cooper ] Base 10 [moe@lac2.gulliver.fr] replies & comments [valerieb@mindspring.com] Re: support-system-digest V2 #355 [Mike Connolly ] RE: millenium [Jen Oliver ] Capitol= capital [mikey c at yehaw ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #357 [Nach1120@aol.com] Love/Hate??? [RocketBoyD@aol.com] what's wrong with this? [Craig King ] Hello again and some queries [Peter Washington ] An Evening with Jenny ["Jennifer Sayler" ] Chicago trip - suggestions needed! ["Henry, Gregory" ] 930 club [Mark McKee ] mary timony's solo album [jimmy ] EIG at No. 5 for '90s ["April Haitsuka" ] Re: EIG at No. 5 for '90s [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V2 #357 ["Dr Hugo Z Hackenbush" Subject: Y2K - are you OK? Ok, so it's not really relevant to Liz, but it's timely advice to you net heads. If you use a Macintosh, don't bother reading this, though some bad Mac applications can have Y2K problems. Just not any of the biggies. So you're probably all sick of hearing about Y2K already. I know I am. It's not too late to do something about it if you haven't already. If you're using a PC at work, your company should have done something about this by now. If your PC is older than 2 years, you could well have problems with your system BIOS and name brand PCs can be just as guilty as generic PCs. There are free programs which will check your BIOS for compliance and some will even provide a software patch to keep you going. These programs can be found just about anywhere on the net, but the best place to look is on computer magazine websites, like this one... http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/ Click on the Y2K link and you will see a list of utilities. Norton 2000 BIOS Test/Fix looks OK, so does BugFix_NT v1.2 and a couple of others. There are other programs there which will check some of your applications as well for compliance. Check also with the manufacturer of your PC, as they might supply a fix for your model. Go to their website and look up your model in their Y2K section. The larger PC companies are good for this. If you can't find one for your model, then stick with the utilities I mentioned above. You can also buy software that will do the same thing if you wish. To check up on any Microsoft products you have, go to... http://microsoft.com/year2000/ Windows 95 isn't compliant, but can be fixed with an update which is freely downloadable. You'll also find information on other MS products there, like Office 97 which requires an update. Internet Explorer 4 may need an update as well. There is also a free program on the Microsoft site that will tell you the status of their programs you might be using. Here's the link... http://www.microsoft.com/technet/year2k/pca/pca.htm Just about everything you need to know about Y2K and Microsoft products is there, so knock yourselves out reading up on it. For any other programs you may be using, check the websites of the manufacturer and look through their Y2K section. Disclaimer: If your PC screws up, don't bug me. heh. There is also something you can do right now. Double click on "My Computer". Double click on " Control Panel". Double click on "Regional Settings" icon. Click on the "Date" tab at the top of the page. Click on the button across from "Short Date Style" and select the option that shows, mm/dd/yyyy. (You can enter the extra two 'y's manually, just be sure your selection has four Y's showing, not two.) Then click on "Apply" and then click "OK" at the bottom. One more thing, if you are using virus scanning software, update your virus definition files as there have been a couple of nasty new ones in the last week and news is out that it will just get worse as the year draws to a close. If you're not using a virus scanner, why not? This has been a community service announcement in the name of making sure you're all with us next year. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:17:05 +0100 From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Base 10 madLucas: >i recently thought why 10 years birthday is more important than 11? >it is definitely still unknown for me. Because we count in base ten I guess. If for example we counted in base 16 (hexadecimal), then the multiples of 16 would seem more important. It's all artificial. Moe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:32:14 -0500 From: valerieb@mindspring.com Subject: replies & comments shelley said: > Katie--I want to have Beck's baby. *grin* Call it geek-love, call >it just plain weird, but I too love Beck in all his oddness & >glory... ...i see that geek-love and raise you two! don't know what it is *sigh*...and i, too, love "so i married an axe murderer"...hard-hearted harbinger of haggis, indeed! dsotm reared his head and critiqued: >the capital of grunge has deteriorated into a place where djs put >korn, rage, kid rock, the beastie boys and NIN in the cd player, hit >random, and go out for a few drinks and this would be bad because?...... ...ummm...lack of variety and creativity (i actually like all of those bands/artists, but i like a lot of other things too, and i like them all less after hearing them *constantly*), the fact that there is also a hell of a lot of limp bizkit in the mix (although i kinda like that "think about it" song they have that sounds a little stone-roses-ish), and hey, no liz... random list-related thoughts...glad to see that most people have a cool, non-pretentious attitude about the 'sell-out' issue. and, i for one have enjoyed reading this list more lately...comments have been smart, totally meaningless postings have been at a minimum, and we all seem to be playing nice. perhaps it's the joyous holiday spirit *wink*? but dana p., where are you? i saw a guitar i wanted to buy last week (it was pretty, kinda sage green colored) and thought of you! don't really care about the new album title, she could call it 'manila envelope' for all i care. i just want some new tunes to learn and sing, and more importantly, a new tour including at least one show i can actually *go to*!!! easily amused and relieving a headache...valerie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:34:26 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Connolly Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #355 > From: Miz Phair > I always say no Alanis without Liz. Well, maybe no Alanis _Jagged LIttle Pill_ without Liz: taht's exactly what Ira Robbins says in the fifth edition of the Trouser Press Guide. Morrissette did release two albums before her big one, although they were more along the lines of dance\pop than angry young woman. > Well no Liz without Joni and Janis... Possibly. Although I'm more inclined to agree more with the Joni than Janis idea. > From: "Michael Worrell" > Well, as two of the list Mikes noted, Juliana > Hatfield and Company are reuniting. Well, it seems to me that they are more colloborating on this next album, not reuniting. But who knows; stranger things have happened (and are usually documented on MrE's daily trip to the bizarre.) ===== Mikey C Va Beach "Define irony: a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash." Steve Buscemi, Con Air __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:09:53 -0500 From: Jen Oliver Subject: RE: millenium Just thought you guys might want to know: Liz is listed among the artists in CDNOW's lits of Top 10 Best Feminist Moments of the Millennium. You can find the article here: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/pagename=/RP/GENRES/cms_genres.html/fid =22125/rfname=Millennium:+Today's+Top+10+List If you want to see any of the other lists, just click on "Past Top 10 Lists" on the left-hand side of the page. Jen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:19:49 -0800 (PST) From: mikey c at yehaw Subject: Capitol= capital I really hate to say this (well, maybe not, or else I wouldn't), but I gotta disagree with all the optimists out here. If the next release doesn't get airplay and generate a significant amount of money for the record company on the first single, Capitol will dump Ms Phair faster than you can blink. Big corporate record companies are in the business of making money in the short term. Period. They don't develop artists, they don't like 'artsy' or 'indie' acts anymore, they don't even like the idea that in a couple of years, they _may_ get their investment back. And I predict they won't even go nuts with advertising for _An Evening With..._ . It will have to take a grass-roots effort by her fans (us, SSD members leading the charge) to get even a second single from this album. And another prediction: if she should get dumped, the catalog currently owned by Capitol will stay with Capitol. That way, some money will be returned to the coffers for this 'failed' deal. Mikey C in an asbestos room now somewhere in Va Beach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 11:11:52 EST From: Nach1120@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #357 << Where would zero fall . . . there is no in between when he was here or not here. Trust me . . . the people who created our calendars did not create a zero year. >> they didn't create a year zero because there was no zero in Roman numbers. think of Roman numerals....they have symbols for 1, 5,10, etc...but not for zero. no one had thought of that concept yet. christine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:49:13 EST From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: Love/Hate??? I am so jealous of all y'all who have access to these new songs.......How do you get them??? Are they on the boots of her past tour........I would love to be able to post whether or not I like Love/Hate Transmition, but I've never heard it before......But if it sounds anything like "What Makes......." then I'll love it......."Happy" was my favorite song on WCSE...................... let me know how I can hear this song, or any others....... thanks, PHIL (aka RocketBoy) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 10:49:58 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: what's wrong with this? valerie wrote: >>the capital of grunge has deteriorated into a place where djs put korn, rage, kid rock, the beastie boys and NIN in the cd player, hit random, and go out for a few drinks<< Exactly how is this a bad thing? I would love a radio station that played all of that stuff. You just named 4 of my favorite bands (not including NIN). I'm going to see Korn in March and then I'm going to see Kid Rock in January when he and Sevendust open for Metallica. I'm going to the Metallica concert more to see Kid Rock than anyone else, because I've heard he's such an amazing live performer. I absolutely can't wait! If you want to bash radio stations, try bashing the ones who play Shittney Spears and the Backseat Boys. Craig "AdRock" NP: Kid Rock - "Devil Without A Cause" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 11:40:15 -0500 From: Peter Washington Subject: Hello again and some queries Not that anyone should care, but I am back from a summer in exile (I know, summer's long gone). Looks like there isn't much substantial news other than that there's an album in the works (I'll be checking the record stores in 2002). But I was wondering, did anyone ever manage to find a recording of that show in Boston, 11/30/98, when she sang Alison? People who have been around here a while remember what I'm talking about. Also, there are a few other shows I'm looking to find tapes of. If you have any of the following, email me: 8/5/98 in Chicago 10/19/98 in Pontiac, MI 8/14/99 in Clarkston, MI 8/17/99 in Cleveland Thanks, and hello again. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:40:54 -0500 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: An Evening with Jenny Hey, coming out of lurking to express a few thoughts on the title of Liz's new album. I know this has been oh so controversial. Anyways, I myself like the title. I think its corny because it sounds like it could be An Evening With John Tesh or something like that, which reminds me of Songs for the Vacuuming Housewife (which I know is not a real title, but just go with it, ok?). It seems to go along with the transition Liz has gone through from Guyville to the new Mommy Liz. Its a more sophisticated title I think. Jase mentioned something about Liz poking fun at images of herself with this title and I agree with that. I think she is definitely poking fun at herself by picking this like more mainstream, adult contemporary title for a song, one that a big record label like Capitol might "approve" of. Now that Liz is on a major label, she has more responsibilities I think as far as promotion and selling records goes. To recap: I like title because title is corny. Thanks! Jenny *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ He does dress better than I do, what would I bring to the relationship? - -Cher (Clueless) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* Cool, Tall, Vulnerable and Luscious - http://www.liz-phair.com Vampyr - http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/vampyr.htm *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:53:22 -0500 From: "Henry, Gregory" Subject: Chicago trip - suggestions needed! Okay all you Chicago listers! I'm going to be in your town December 12 and 13. Is there anything exciting going on there at that time, or any places of interest I should check out? Maybe I should let you know my interests: mainly listening to music, getting drunk and picking up sailors. But let me have ALL your suggestions, please! I currently have nothing on my agenda, no travel companions and a MasterCard with (practically) no money owed. And if you provide me with suggestions, I'll return the favor when you visit New York. What a deal! (Footnote: I'm really scheduling this trip on the off chance that I happen to see Liz Phair or Edith Frost strolling around, stalker, stalker. But I might as well do something fun while skulking in the shadows ... ) Gregory Henry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:18:00 -0800 (PST) From: Mark McKee Subject: 930 club Does anyone have a tape of the complete 4/27/99 show at the 930 Club? I'll gladly send postage and a blank. I've heard snipets and thats an amazing performance. Thanks in advance, Mark (mhk_77@yahoo.com) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:38:00 -0600 From: jimmy Subject: mary timony's solo album is called Mountains and is delayed till 3/00 ...for those who wondered/care ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:42:54 -0800 From: "April Haitsuka" Subject: EIG at No. 5 for '90s From the Orange County Register (CA): Phair-ness doctrine: gut feeling Best albums of the '90s -- This week No. 5 December 3, 1999 I'll be honest: I never got how it was a response to the Stones, perhaps because I never really tried to figure it out. I think I did play them one after the other once, but as soon as I realized that Liz was veering into unexpected pop structures while Mick and Keith were busy refashioning the blues, I lost interest. It was all just a ruse anyway, the one gimmick the suits (well, nice shirts, at least) at Matador Records thought to unleash when Liz Phair's "Exile on Guyville" dropped like an H-bomb in 1993. To be fair, the woman herself had said it was something of a song-by-song retort to the Stones' "Exile on Main Street," then later backpedaled, saying she only used that classic as a launching pad for her own critical look at the Chicago underground. It was a scene reputed to be so sexist and heavily populated with all-male bands that it had earned the nickname Guyville. Of course, there's a Guyville in every state, which is why Phair's stunning debut was so resonant. Women everywhere (men, too) know its denizens all too well. They never really have faces in Phair's world, except for perhaps "Soap Star Joe" ("he's just a hero in a long line of heroes") and the Johnny of "Dance of the Seven Veils," though he's dead, either literally or figuratively. But it wasn't just that Phair skewered cads along with social norms or pushed worn-out buttons the way society had told women not to. Hey, Chrissie Hynde had done that a decade earlier, and even Alanis has a way with twisting givens in the battle of the sexes. Still, where Alanis gave scorned women everywhere the vengeance anthem they so richly (and sadly) deserved, Phair gave them an entire portrait of modern womanhood. We don't see the men who have made her feel this way so much as we see the aftermath. The jaded, defensive skeptic of "Never Said." The helpless child of "Explain It to Me." The Everygirl victims of "Divorce Song" and "Canary." The confused misfit of "Stratford-on-Guy." Or the hopeful seductress of "Mesmerizing" countered with the robotic dominatrix of "Flower," still the album's most controversial moment. To think that we've gone from Phair saying how she wants to be — oh, how to put this delicately? — an expert at oral sex to Monica Lewinsky being, well, Monica Lewinsky. The beauty of Phair, though, was that she sounded real, even if rumors still persist that it was all a put-on, that she really isn't so outspoken and sexually frank, that she's just a quiet, motherly type. What does it matter? "You said things I would not say straight to my face," she snidely remarks to an ex-lover here. Then she turned around and said them to us. Rock hasn't been the same. The impact of "Exile" was every bit as strong as "Nevermind," if not greater. It marked the beginning of what has been an endless string of Year-of-the-Woman hosannas. It opened the door for Alanis and Jewel and Sarah McLachlan and, yes, Meredith Brooks — who, in turn, helped give us adult album alternative radio. And though I doubt that Lil' Kim or Foxy Brown ever heard Liz's sad reflection on always being left cold and alone after doing the deed, you can bet their brazenness is a reaction to the same painful emotions that Phair tapped into. (Hear the line "Whatever happened to a boyfriend / the kind of guy who makes love 'cause he's in it," then think of the female rebelliousness that follows, and it makes a great deal of sense.) More than what Phair was saying, however, it was the way she said it — almost offhandedly, as if she really didn't think anything would change. Like this: "I sing like a good canary / I come when called." Or her conclusion in "Strange Loop": "Baby, I'm tired of fighting / I always wanted you / I only wanted more than I knew." That was the big first, the nihilism of punk poured into one woman's soul without the results being overtly aggressive. (By contrast, when it was poured into one man's soul at around the same time, we got Nirvana.) Here, we get songs that so go against the grain of verse-chorus-verse that it's hard to imagine how they were ever heard in circles nearing the mainstream. There are a few obvious hits — or, at least, "Never Said" should have been a hit. But mostly Phair stitches together thoughts any way they'll fit — whispering in "Glory," clattering in "Flower," charging like Voice of the Beehive in "Johnny Sunshine," disappearing into ambient noodling in "Shatter," letting her piano echo ridiculously on "Canary." Nothing has matched it. "Exile in Guyville" is one of those rare moments in pop when all the forces that shouldn't ever align somehow sync up perfectly and show us a whole new set of stars. "Check out America," Phair goads midway through her masterpiece. "You're looking at it, babe." And collectively, I think, we're still trying to figure out what to make of it. THE TOP 20 SO FAR 6. R.E.M., "Automatic for the People" 7. Bjork, "Post" 8. DJ Shadow, "Endtroducing ..." 9. Dr. Dre, "The Chronic" 10. Pet Shop Boys, "Very" 11. Beck, "Odelay" 12. Massive Attack, "Blue Lines" 13. Soundgarden, "Superunknown" 14. The La's, "The La's" 15. Moby, "Everything Is Wrong" 16. Sinead O'Connor, "I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got" 17. Los Lobos, "Kiko" 18. Jeff Buckley, "Grace" 19. My Bloody Valentine, "Loveless" 20. Basehead, "Play With Toys" - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- The Best of the '90s is counted down every Friday in Hear! Ben Wener can be reached at (714) 796-2248, or send e-mail to bwener@notes.freedom.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 20:03:50 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: EIG at No. 5 for '90s I agree with what this article says about Liz and sexism. But even before Liz, and after Chrisse, you had Tori and Aimee Mann writitng stuff like this, just diffrently. But Liz took all that and did more with it. Even though the others caught up with Liz, and in Alanis's case made it a big hit, there is still the crater that EIG made when it detonated. I love Tori, Crissie and Aimee, and Alanis, but Liz in this way is special. And there's a backlash to all of this now, to women challenging sexism in rock, whether it be Lilith Fair or whatever, but you have cock rock like Blink 182, and rape inspriers like Limp Biscut, Korn and Kid Rock. I do remeber Woodstock 99 all too well. It's disgusting and it should be stopped, rock shouldn't be a place for sexism, not to mention homophobia and racism (and if you think that's PC, all being PC is is respecting people). Where are all the women speaking up about this? Are they too busy adoring Mike Durst, Johnthan Davis and Blink 182 to think about all of this. And how about all the crap that Eddie, Trent, Adam D, and Cris C, ect dishes out, I hate people who feel sorry for themselves. I said some of this in a letter to the NY Times a few months ago, about a brillent article that was written about Woodstock 99, which was called "an orgy of Lewidness and Hate." It was printed. And I wrote a book about the overthrow of the people/bands mentioned by openly gay and lesbian rockers, so that a real alterntive could be provided. It could be published, I'll know at the end of the month. Don't flame me if you a fan, just think about all this. Andrea aweiss4338@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:35:23 +1100 From: "Dr Hugo Z Hackenbush" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #357 >Chris wrote: >>Favorite Liz talk show appearance: Not really a talk show, but the MuchMusic >>interview was excellent > >Do you (or anyone else, for that matter) have a copy of this? Since the only Canadian television we get is "Degrassi" reruns, I downloaded it from lizphair.com Kudos to Daniel & Sean for putting up plenty of TV appearances on the site chris ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #358 ************************************