From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #327 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, November 6 1999 Volume 02 : Number 327 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Nashville ["Allison" ] Nashville talk... [Shelly ] Re: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) [Mike Connolly ] Articles [moe@lac2.gulliver.fr] Cat Power and Liz Phair [Catherine Lewis ] Cat Power and Liz Phair, PART 2 [Catherine Lewis ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Oh, disappointment! [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] I'm back [Msmrizing2@aol.com] Re: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) [Soul Full ] Liz email - no joke [Kenneth Lee ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 00:57:48 -0600 From: "Allison" Subject: Nashville >the lyric is "I can't imagine it in better terms." ok, I stand corrected. Thanks for all the analysis and info about the song too. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 04:59:04 -0800 From: Shelly Subject: Nashville talk... *stretching my fingers a bit after my mini-vacation* After all the talk about the song "Nashville", I decided to give it a thorough listening to...and I'm glad that I did. For some reason, when I bought "Whip-Smart", it went almost directly into my car, which in turn lent itself to fall--unfortunately so--into a category of which I've termed "Car Songs". Now, don't get me wrong...and since we've had the discussion here before of what songs are purportedly the "best car songs", I know that you all *or most* know what I mean. Car songs to me, are usually a bit more upbeat and rhytmically steady that other songs...with that fitting "driving beat", and on "Whip Smart", the songs that fit into that category for me are the title song, "Jealousy", "Supernova", "Cinco de Mayo"...that sort of more quicker paced tune. So I did myself a great justice and brought "Whip-Smart" into the house and consciously listened to the "slower" songs; "Shane", "Nashville", "Crater Lake" and "Alice Springs"...I've loved "Go West" from the start, so no need to rehash that one...but I fell in love with them...especially "Nashville" and "Crater Lake". So, I guess amongst all my babbling, I'm really trying to say "Thank You" to those of you on this list that have broadened even my wide music enjoyment, especially Robbie. Thank you!! Oh yeah...Hi Valerie! ~gunshy~ Shelly NP: Sophie B. Hawkins "Timbre" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:00:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Connolly Subject: Re: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) > When you saw Liz live for the first time, what were > your reactions? I Both impressed and disappointed. While it was such a thrill to see her play live, and be within a dozen rows of the stage, I was a little disappointed that there wasn't much more than her singing at the mic. No stage show to speak of. But I don't regret driving to Richmond for the show. > When reading or seeing Liz interviewed, have you > ever gotten the feeling that > Liz is a different person each time? Not any more than any other person's changes from day to day. And sometimes, you realize, people who are constantly interviewed get bored with the same questions over and over again, and feel the need to shake things up. > Regarding wcse, (I know this is a touchy subject, > but try to remain > open-minded ;)) what in particular made you > like/dislike this album? Why? Not the first album of hers, but it has become my favorite. I think that it was a natural progression from towards being more commercially successful, and it was done in a manner that was not out of character from her first two. The songs were more accessable, more listenable for the general public. Hope the next one brings in even more fans and sales. ("I know that most of the [fans] that I have/Don't really don't see it that way...") > Would Liz make a certain album just because that's what she thinks the fans want? I hope not. If she makes an album she likes, the fans, for the most part, will follow. Writing to a specific portion of the public for the express purpose of making money is called 'advertising.' Mikey C Va Beach NP: Rich Creamy Paint, _Rich Creamy Paint_ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Liz questions These are some great questions. Here goes: >>When you saw Liz live for the first time, what were your reactions?<< Well, the first I saw Liz live was at the infamous Lounge Ax show in March of this year. I left that show thinking she was a guitar goddess. Yeah, she had Buddy with her, but Liz covered 90% of the guitar parts that night. I guess the only thing that suprised (not the right word) me/made me happy was how personable Liz was. She was nothing but corgial and gracious to her fans. No signs of ego whatsoever, which was great to see. There were really no disappointments at all. She more that fullfilled my expectations. >>When reading or seeing Liz interviewed, have you ever gotten the feeling that Liz is a different person each time?<< I can't really say that she seems like a different person. The only time it may seem that way is when you compare interviews from the WCSE era to the Exile or WS era. She's not the same person now that she was 6 years ago, and neither is anyone else. It's called growth, both as a person and as a songwriter. >>Do you think Liz is sincere outside of her music?<< Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but if the two times I have met her are any indication, then I can honestly give you a hell yes. She has been totally sincere/nice/sweet/gracious when I have met her. From my experiences and from the experiences of others, it seems Liz will go out of her way to accomodate her fans. I think that says alot about her. >>Regarding wcse, (I know this is a touchy subject, but try to remain open-minded ;)) what in particular made you like/dislike this album?<< Like someone else said, I think I'm one of the only people that really likes WCSE, and I've been a fan since WS. I think WCSE is very underappreciated. I'm not saying it's my favorite album, but songwriting wise, it's just as good as the other two. Being a guitar player myself, my only dissapointment was that there was not as much of Liz playing guitar on the album. >>Do you think that the feedback that Liz received during the tour might have an influence on the next album?<< I think it may play into the next album, but only to a certain extent. She's said before that she is going to make the kind of albums that SHE wants to make. If that wasn't the case, I don't think she would have made WCSE. I think she's going to continue to make the kind of albums she wants to make, and that she's going to stay true to herself like she always has. I think the new album is going to be more rock oriented. From the new songs that I've heard it seems to me that Liz's 4th album is going to sound like a combination of her previous 3 albums. I mean look at the new songs, and look how they compare to her previous albums: Conversation = Exile/Girlysound Firewalker = WS/WCSE sessions Don't Apologize = WS/WCSE sessions Love/Hate Transmission = WCSE Plus, the possible inclusion of Hello Stranger (Sailor) and Can't Get Out Of What I'm Into, both off of Girlysounds. I think Liz's next album could possibly be her best yet. I guess time will tell, and time is hell. Craig "As I get behind the wheel again, I pray to live a million years" - Scott Weiland NP: Stone Temple Pilots - No. 4 ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:44:19 +0100 From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Articles Jason: >Sure, this sounds good to me. I've noticed that this is something you've >done quite often on HLL, and it seems to work quite well there. Perhaps if >people are to do this, when they post the first part, they can include the >URL for the full article so that those who want to read the rest right away >are able to, provided the article hasn't already been moved to another location. On HLL it depends on the digest size. For example if it's already at 40K, I'll only put a small part of the article. But obviously on other lists like here, I have no idea how big the digest is going to be :) And your idea of posting several parts *and* the URL is great. I'll do that from now on. Moe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:00:46 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Lewis Subject: Cat Power and Liz Phair Okay, so I'm going to go see Cat Power next week, and I thought I'd do my homework on the show -- yeah, I knew she was on Matador, as Liz Phair used to be, but I didn't realize how closely connected the two are.... apparently Liz is the reason that Chan Marshall (of Cat Power) is on Matador! Read this, from an interview at http://people.enternet.com.au/~acarew/ggcatpwr.html "My friends kept saying they wanted me to play by myself, and I thought they were out of their minds, there was no way that I could do it. Through the year they kept saying 'blah, blah, blah', and I just kept saying 'no way'. So then, one night, they phoned up and said: 'we've booked a show for you. If you show up, you show up. If you don't you don't.' And I thought that was funny, I thought 'no fucking way', and I didn't call them back. And then I looked at the paper, and at CBGB it said 'Cat Power'." After that first show, Marshall came home to find a message from a guy that she knew called Gerard, who she hadn't realised was actually Gerard Cosloy, co-boss of Matador Records. He offered her a show opening for Liz Phair. Chan did it so she could earn $200. - - Catherine ps. okay, the world is getting smaller and smaller, as I look at the URL and realize that that's actually a friend of mine.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 11:08:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine Lewis Subject: Cat Power and Liz Phair, PART 2 Okay, that'll teach me to send a post before I finish reading the interview. The story continues: After she played her set that night, at a gig in which she wasn't even billed on, Marshall went outside to look for a friend of hers. "I go outside, and all these boys come up and are like 'can I please get an interview with you?', 'can I please get your autograph?', 'can I get my picture taken with you?', and I was looking at them just totally amazed. And one of them had a little microphone, like a Tandy microphone up to my mouth. They were really young, nice; just young guys, whatever. And I look at them, and then I realised; and I said.. 'I'm not Liz Phair'. And they looked at me, and then they just totally walked away. It was then I realised that these people had never even heard Liz Phair. You know what I mean? They were just blown out of proportion because of the expectations of Liz Phair, that they thought that I was Liz Phair. So then I felt like shit! It was like the encore didn't mean anything." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:24:44 -0800 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: "tennessee...t-tennesse...." like many others, i'm really glad to be hearing about "nashville," which used to practically make me bawl when i first got "whipsmart".... i'm telling you, that is one of the best songs written by ANYONE EVER. that beautiful, plaintive guitar--and i love the way that guy on this list mentioned the "crazy yearning" in her voice.... and just that line "i won't decorate my love" and how she splits it all up with the harmonies. oh my god.... the subtext of it being "about" the biz really adds to it; i would have never picked that up, but it really fits. the first time i saw liz was, wow, just over a year ago now, on her WCSE tour. and, this is so stupid, i can't even believe i'm saying this, but when she was just about to come on i really seriously thought i was gonna start crying. i'm not even kidding. and i'm 35 years old. so, i really had to laugh at myself on that one.... i could barely see her--i should have pushed my way up there, 'cause we're both tiny people--but i did still notice her smooth and effortless playing. jealousy!! i'd love to go on and on about all those other questions, but i gotta get my booty up to smel-L. A. and see "hedwig and the angry inch." that guy in the dress is HOT!!! lurv, dp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 12:35:45 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Wood, Luke" Subject: Hi, it's me Hi, it's me. Just thought I'd drop in. I'm sitting in my friends office at DreamWorks and thought I would check out wha's going on on the net.Luke just wrote that part. Now it's really me. That faker. MIND FUCK MIND FUCK. I did not know all this stuff was on here. Do you wanna hear some new lyrics? I'm making demos in L.A. Here's a section from My Mistake: I saw John, he looked so sad I want you to know that I feel bad for not making our dreams come true. we had so many dreams, me and you. I want you to know I love you. You're my favorite thing from the past, and all of those nights we spent together, I never had such a blast.... Anyone could tell you were my instrument, he said, I understand you. You want to play me. my mistake was thinking I'd already made it. I wanna make a leap of innocence to you. Please don't reply to this address 'cause I'm just borrowing someone else's computer. Till next time, Liz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 12:37:47 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "sea of brine" Subject: New lyrics for "My Mistake"?? (i like it!) Anyone still subscribe to (or unable to unsubscribe from) the Guyville list? I received a couple messages from there this morning. I thought I'd pass this one along to you all. If nothing else, the lyrics are interesting. sean ... Delivered-To: guyville@blackbox.pobox.com Received: from www.dreamworksrecords.com (dreamworksrecords.com [216.4.64.3]) by blackbox.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C68298BC3 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from dreamworksrecords.com ([216.4.65.85]) by www.dreamworksrecords.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31916 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:42:15 -0800 Message-ID: <38225207.DAF3C856@dreamworksrecords.com> Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 19:41:59 -0800 From: Luke Wood X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: guyville@blackbox.pobox.com Subject: [Guyville] Hi, it's me. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: guyville-admin@fdemocracy.org List-Id: Errors-To: guyville-admin@fdemocracy.org X-BeenThere: guyville@fdemocracy.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0b7 X-UIDL: 100a3c5f309482fccbd6644be045975e Hi, it's me. Just thought I'd drop in. I'm sitting in my friends office at DreamWorks and thought I would check out wha's going on on the net.Luke just wrote that part. Now it's really me. That faker. MIND FUCK MIND FUCK. I did not know all this stuff was on here. Do you wanna hear some new lyrics? I'm making demos in L.A. Here's a section from My Mistake: I saw John, he looked so sad I want you to know that I feel bad for not making our dreams come true. we had so many dreams, me and you. I want you to know I love you. You're my favorite thing from the past, and all of those nights we spent together, I never had such a blast.... Anyone could tell you were my instrument, he said, I understand you. You want to play me. my mistake was thinking I'd already made it. I wanna make a leap of innocence to you. Good bye. Liz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 12:44:20 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Momus Subject: apple jacks >Fiona Apple. ...godammit i needed a good laugh! thanks michael... - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:39:33 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Oh, disappointment! Long-ass post here. Please, don't bother reading it. <> The question is what's the 2nd industry song? "Alice Springs" or "Crater Lake"? I'd include "Dogs of L.a." but Liz said once that it's about a "day of metaphor" in L.A. that just seemed like it should be a song. This is what I loved about WS and EIG -- I was never sure what Liz meant half the time because, as she says in that Calvin Klein interview, she writes "in code." That's one thing that I don't like about spaceegg: even though the press release said Liz's lyrics were less literal this time around (yikes), I think the lyrics are actually more direct, if not dumbed-down. I can't think of a song other than "Headache" on the record that has me befuddled the way songs like "Gunshy," "Dogs of L.A.," "Nashville," "Alice Springs," "Shane," "Dance of the 7 Veils" etc. did way back when. So to answer Nora's questions... <> Lyrically, I wonder why there aren't phrases on _wcse_ like "bridges blown away keep floating up," "you are shining some glory on me," or "so many opals..."? I really notice a change in Liz's lyrical style this time around, and I'm not too fond of it, but then, I understand she's got diapers to change -- she can't sit around trying to think of cool phrases. There isn't much about wcse that doesn't disappoint me, actually. The inclusion of the lyrics does dispel the mystery (thank you, Mr. McGhee), and the production is excessive. I can feel another "hey, man, change is good, you gotta GROW as an artist!" post coming in response to this, but I just don't think Liz grew. It ain't evolution, it's devolution. My aversion to the "sonic sheen" doesn't spring from any deep-seeded hatred for hi-fi, either. If I ever gave the impression that I'm some lo-fi/indie die-hard, I apologize. I'm a big phony, really. I just don't think hi-fi worked for Liz this time, and apparently, Liz likes the songs that she can hear herself in best (she cited "Headache," "Girls Room," and "Go On Ahead"). So maybe the big production wasn't something Liz wanted badly, but just something appropriate for this do-or-die thing. Who knows. <> The first show I saw was a solo electric video boot from '95, and everything Greg Henry said is true. I couldn't believe what a great guitarist Liz is, and I know many people won't realize this or care until they see a solo electric show on videotape (or unless Liz really gets back to her roots). So when I went to see Liz last fall, I was expecting more of the same, but instead I ended up asking myself "Who are these imposters?" (no offense to any bandmembers who may be lurking...;)). As excited as I was to be that close, I couldn't help but feel ripped off. Liz only played the most accessible of her songs, she definitely simplified her guitar playing (believe me, I noticed!) or didn't play at all on some songs, and I felt like without Brad, Casey, and Leroy, it just wasn't a Liz Phair show. I know they were never supposed to be "the Liz Phair band," but they kind of ended up being it by appearing in her videos & liner notes, and contributing so much to her first 2 records. Anyway, if she makes an album for her fans this time around, I hope she knows what I want. I don't care if it's compromising her artistic integrity, I don't care if it's made-up bullshit (like Guyville reportedly was), just so long as she rocks the way the Liz Phair I grew to love used to. (How selfish of me! -- I'm a Taurus, you understand). In an old article from Chicago magazine, I think, John Henderson said he thought Liz betrayed her talent with the leap from Girlysound to Guyville. I think she betrayed her talent further with _wcse_, and I can't understand why some people -- including Liz -- can't see it. Lastly, I've got tabs for "help me mary" and "if i ever pay you back," and I'm working on "Strange Loop". Anyone care to help? Pretend you never saw this post, please. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:58:08 EST From: Msmrizing2@aol.com Subject: I'm back Hey listers, I was a member of support system and even the 6'1" mailing list for a long time. But then I went to college and had to terminate my account until I got a new one. So here I am again. The list seems a little different form before. Spaceeggy Katie are you still out there? What about Katie Brown? Well, if anyone is in the Iowa City area, I have a radio show on KRUI 89.7fm on Tuesday mornings 7-10 and Wednesday mornings 1-4am. And I ALWAYS play Liz because she is my favorite. So if anyone is around there email me and let me know youre listening. Long live Liz. It's good to be back! Katie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:34:10 -0800 (PST) From: Soul Full Subject: Re: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) Hello... > When you saw Liz live for the first time, what were > your reactions? I > understand the excitement and awe, but was there > anything that disappointed > you? that surprised you? that made you feel > differently towards Liz as an > artist? I'm tempted to not count Lilith, because > it's a whole different > atmosphere. Wah! I STILL haven't seen her live. Will she ever come to Florida? She didn't even come for the Liliths I went to. > > When reading or seeing Liz interviewed, have you > ever gotten the feeling that > Liz is a different person each time? And by this, I > don't mean whether or > not she has grown or that she is having a good/bad > day, etc... What I mean > is, do you ever notice contridictions or.. well, > things that just don't add > up? Do you think Liz is sincere outside of her > music? I think sometimes she gets a kick out of the media attention and sometimes she couldn't be less bothered. (Just like anyone of us her will.) The variety of her articles makes her seem as much as one of us as her musical style does. > > Regarding wcse, (I know this is a touchy subject, > but try to remain > open-minded ;)) what in particular made you > like/dislike this album? Why? I like spaceegg. I like the WCSE sessions even more. I think all of the albums have been huge jumps in different directions. This one does have sort of a pop appeal to it and also some real happiness in Liz's life. I can't hate it for that. She went from almost without hope in EIG to happiness - albeit with strings attached in WCSE. There's hope for me yet. > Especially, if this isn't the first Liz album that > you heard. Do you think > that it is a natural progression? Do you think that > the feedback that Liz > received during the tour might have an influence on > the next album? Would > Liz make a certain album just because that's what > she thinks the fans want? I don't think she'll make an album based on press or fans at all. And I hope she makes music true to her. It wouldn't be the same otherwise. paige- ===== "Every day I crucify myself And my heart is sick of being in chains" Tori Amos - "Crucify" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:57:42 -0800 (PST) From: Easter Subject: [none] Nora asked really good questions. =) As for seeing Liz live, I saw her at Univ. of Chicago on her b-day this year. The only reaction I can remember very well is saying how beautiful she is in person. I have this thing with pictures for some reason, especially when it doesn't look like the real them. Guess I could say I was a little bit disappointed cuz time flew by too quickly and I wanted the concert to last forever. I obviously was having too much fun. I also didn't want to leave Chicago either, knowing she'll probably won't swing down to Florida to play. It's too hard for me to even watch the videos I have or else I'm bawling my eyes out, thinking about the memories. I like WCSE, it has very catchy tunes to sing along to. The album's great, just too much stuff floating around with the keyboards, but I've learned to get use to it. With the new album, I do hope Liz will tone it down a little bit with the keyboards. I love piano and stuff, but that's not what I know Liz for. I think that's all for now. I must be the only idiot who doesn't like the song "Nashville," compared to what I've read so far. Oh yes, waiting to see if Whip-Smart will do its magical wonder on my sister for her b-day this weekend. I know she likes Liz, especially when she can sing "Girls! Girls! Girls!" off the back of her head. Chewbach chewa, Katie ();) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 20:01:29 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: Liz email - no joke Hey everyone, I've come out of lurking to mention that Liz has emailed a mailing list or two. It's on my updates page, but here it is in its entirety: - ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 19:41:59 -0800 From: Luke Wood To: guyville@blackbox.pobox.com Subject: [Guyville] Hi, it's me. Hi, it's me. Just thought I'd drop in. I'm sitting in my friends office at DreamWorks and thought I would check out wha's going on on the net.Luke just wrote that part. Now it's really me. That faker. MIND FUCK MIND FUCK. I did not know all this stuff was on here. Do you wanna hear some new lyrics? I'm making demos in L.A. Here's a section from My Mistake: I saw John, he looked so sad I want you to know that I feel bad for not making our dreams come true. we had so many dreams, me and you. I want you to know I love you. You're my favorite thing from the past, and all of those nights we spent together, I never had such a blast.... Anyone could tell you were my instrument, he said, I understand you. You want to play me. my mistake was thinking I'd already made it. I wanna make a leap of innocence to you. Good bye. Liz _______________________________________________ Guyville maillist - Guyville@fdemocracy.org http://mailman.pobox.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/guyville - ---------------------------------------------------------- This should generate some interesting discussions on this mailing list. ;) Back to lurking... - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #327 ************************************