From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #326 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, November 5 1999 Volume 02 : Number 326 Today's Subjects: ----------------- i can imagine THIS in better terms... :) [bee ] Sending big articles [moe@lac2.gulliver.fr] break the lull with some trading? [Soul Full ] Elizabeth [Mark Henninger ] Re: Nashville [Aaron Hunter ] Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) [DeadShark@aol.com] Re: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) [Spaceeggy@aol.com] liz live impressions ["Henry, Gregory" ] Re: Nashville [Jason Long ] Nashville ["Nicole W." ] Blair Witch Hoax Revealed! ["Michael Worrell" ] Chicago ["Jennifer R Rupe" ] Re: Nashville [robert joyner ] Re: Sending big articles [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 01:28:12 -0500 From: bee Subject: i can imagine THIS in better terms... :) hey, i'm going to not lurk for a second to chime in on this nashville thread because, it's one of my most favoritest liz songs. my theory on this song isn't the most coherant, and i have to say that i don't *really* know what i make of the verses, but i always kind of took it as liz singing about HER lover, as opposed to her lover singing about her. it seems to me that the whole thing's kind of about that part of the relationship where you're past the initial crazy stage where everything seems perfect and kind of idealized. the part where you really care about someone (and not because they do great stuff or are perfect all the time) to the point where you just feel like you love them mostly when they're at they're most natural, doing something as mundane as shaving and getting ready for work. i always kind of likened it to watching someone sleep. you know, they're not doing anything, but UHHHH! ohmigod you're just overwhelmed because you love them so much. "i won't decorate my love," to me always kind of meant, it's *love*, and that's it, no pretentions or...well some other word i can't think of right now. :) i know i'm not really explaining this well at ALL, but, hey, i just got out of a 5 hour "hair" rehearsal and now have to start a paper...so hopefully someone will understand even part of what i'm saying. i think i'll go back to lurking now after that jumbled mess! b ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:49:40 +0100 From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Sending big articles Jason: >I can, however, foresee a problem with such long articles being posted if >list activity increases to the point where we start having multiple digests >per day again. At that time, some sort of guideline may have to be set Like cutting the articles in small parts but that could also take place now when the digests are small. I know the feeling of starting to read an article and then ending up scrolling because it's too big. So maybe we could only send a couple of paragraphs per digest. Moe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:03:10 -0800 (PST) From: Soul Full Subject: break the lull with some trading? Hi all- Was wondering if anyone would like to break the lull with some trading. I'm currently in the midst of one of my restructuring things. Right now, I'd like to get Liz shows on CD and video (and other people too) that I don't have and trade off some of my memorabilia. Things I have to trade: 2 different WCSE posters (from the gorgeous outdoor photo sessions) in excellent condition WCSE postcards WCSE/Polyester Bride trade ads Rolling Stone with Liz on cover Pulse magazine with Liz on cover CMJ magazine with Liz on cover A scrapbook chock full of only Liz cover to cover - about 100 pages. (Also has Rolling Stone, Pulse and many rare articles). Anyone interested? Please respond privately. Thanks for your time. paige- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:44:14 -0500 From: Mark Henninger Subject: Elizabeth Al wrote in SSD#325: "This is one of my all-time favorite Liz songs so I like to listen to it over and over when I can. The lyrics are so awesome. As for the Elizabeth part? Well, this may sound kinda bizarre but I always wondered who she was calling out to and came to the conclusion that it was the wife of Fred G. Sanford of the 70s tv show "Sanford and Son". Liz Phair is the same age as I am and I grew up as a kid watching this TV program and she probably watched it also. Anyone remember the "Elizabeth, honey, I'm coming to join you!" line Redd Fox used to use all the time as he faked a heart attack? Anyway, I came to this conclusion because of the context of the lyrics. It's all about death and dying and waiting for your time to come and since Elizabeth Sanford is dead, well, I'm probably way off on this but I think it is cool. Liz also uses a lot of humor in her music and I just thought that if this "theory" of mine concerning this Elizabeth part in the song were so, that that is too funny and too cool of her." I am so glad that someone else had the same idea I did about this. I don't think that I would have ever had the nerve to share it with anyone... NP: the Sanford & Son theme song in my head... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:39:40 -0500 From: Aaron Hunter Subject: Re: Nashville Allison writes: "I have thought that Liz was possibly singing this song in the voice of her partner, as the male, talking about her fame: "They don't know what they like so much about it, they just go for any shining bauble, but nobody sparkles like you" and their relationship. This would explain the shaving part, unless Liz herself likes to shave every morning." That is an interesting way to think about it that I haven't considered before. I always thought it was just an example of the cool way she uses impressionistic lyrics sometimes . . . she's lying in bed, naked, half-awake, while he's up getting shaved and ready for work . . . that makes it seem nice and cozy to me. Those personal morning scenes that happen between lovers that are pretty mundane on the surface, but actually say a lot about the intimacy involved. But I think it could be a song from his perspective as well. She obviously likes to experiment with taking on different voices and personas. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:23:23 EST From: DeadShark@aol.com Subject: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) Hello folks, A few listmembers and myself were discussing the dynamics of Liz's public persona last night. I thought it would be interesting to put some of the things that we talked about on the Support System table, and see what you all think about it. I'll be asking a few questions, but this is by no means a survey. ;) When you saw Liz live for the first time, what were your reactions? I understand the excitement and awe, but was there anything that disappointed you? that surprised you? that made you feel differently towards Liz as an artist? I'm tempted to not count Lilith, because it's a whole different atmosphere. When reading or seeing Liz interviewed, have you ever gotten the feeling that Liz is a different person each time? And by this, I don't mean whether or not she has grown or that she is having a good/bad day, etc... What I mean is, do you ever notice contridictions or.. well, things that just don't add up? Do you think Liz is sincere outside of her music? Regarding wcse, (I know this is a touchy subject, but try to remain open-minded ;)) what in particular made you like/dislike this album? Why? Especially, if this isn't the first Liz album that you heard. Do you think that it is a natural progression? Do you think that the feedback that Liz received during the tour might have an influence on the next album? Would Liz make a certain album just because that's what she thinks the fans want? I'm looking forward to hearing all of your opinions on these subjects. :) Nora NP: "Chips From the Chocolate Fireball" --The Dukes of Stratosphear {for Jase: "You're A Good Man Uncle Alverez (Curse You White Chocolate Space Egg" ;)} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:38:11 EST From: Spaceeggy@aol.com Subject: Re: Paper and Iron (Is What Makes You A Slave) This is my first post, so I'd like to say hi to everyone out there in Liz-land! My name is Alexandra and I'm from Lawn-Giland NY. I love Liz much so here goes... << When you saw Liz live for the first time, what were your reactions? I understand the excitement and awe, but was there anything that disappointed you? that surprised you? that made you feel differently towards Liz as an artist? I'm tempted to not count Lilith, because it's a whole different atmosphere. >> The first and only time I have seen Liz live was at the Roseland Ballroom in NYC last October. I was struck by her gracefulness. I thought she played her guitar with the grace of a ballerina. I also noticed that when she did some of the songs off of Exile, it was almost like she was laughing or smirking at them, reflecting on how much she has changed. When she did "Flower" she slinked around the stage as if to say, "Remember me when I MEANT this? I still have some of that naughty girl in me!" I thought she was adorably confident and beautiful. That is all for now...have a fun day everyone! - --Alex "If I abstain from fun and such I'll probably amount to much; but I shall stay the way I am because I do not give a damn." --Dorothy Parker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:01:20 -0500 From: "Henry, Gregory" Subject: liz live impressions the first time I saw Liz was on the solo electric tour, and I left thinking she was a guitar god. It was an amazing show, and her range of songwriting was genius-level. I mean, I'd only heard EIG and WS then, and was unprepared for the amazing Girlysound stuff. Plus, the songs she was writing at that period (I'll get you high, Hurricane Cindy) were so lovably addled and pot-influenced. She just stood stock still and rocked out on the guitar - totally cool. The second time I saw her was at the Roseland show last year, and I was very under-impressed. She had, in my opinion, a generic-sounding band. I mean, a keyboardist and backup singer? That's like a Sarah Maclachlan band. No offense. She didn't play the guitar for the whole show, either. And she seemed more ... eager to please, in a way I didn't like. The only spontaneous move I caught was when she flubbed the beginning of Polyester Bride (because she'd kind of gotten caught up in the drum intro), looked out at the audience and doubled over with laughter. I may be in the minority, but I liked WCSE from the start, and I still listen to it, especially Fantasize and What makes you happy. Her songwriting is great on the record, and I think she's making the move towards pop without losing her quirkiness and intelligence. Gregory Henry 5-4012 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 15:01:08 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Nashville At 03:03 PM 11/3/1999 -0600, Allison wrote: >"I can't imagine any better times than naked, half awake, about to shave and go to work...." According to the lyric sheet issued by Atlantic, the lyric is "I can't imagine it in better terms." Sorry, minor quibble. :) >That has to be my favorite line of hers, and she sings it with such passion. >Anyone have any info about this song, i.e. a mention of >it in an interview? I have thought that Liz was possibly singing this song in >the voice of her partner, as the male, talking about >her fame: "They don't know what they like so much about it, they just go for >any shining bauble, but nobody sparkles like you" and >their relationship. This would explain the shaving part, unless Liz herself >likes to shave every morning.... I'm curious about the >significance of the title of the song too. >Anyone? I've heard that the title is supposed to refer to Nash Kato of Urge Overkill, a band that Liz was good friends with at that time (the "Supernova" video was shot in The Bank, their rehearsal space). Liz has said that after the surprise success of _Exile in Guyville_, she ended up writing a lot of songs about the music industry, but she only allowed two slots out of 14 on the album for them. Although Liz has never outright said which two songs on _Whip-Smart_ are about the business, I always thought this to be one of them. After _Guyville_, Liz spent a lot of time talking to the guys in Urge Overkill about the success that she had and how she would be able to follow it up because they'd already had some renown of their own. Blackie O. shared with her his theory about the first album being for "Your People," the second being for "The People," and the third being for "Everybody," which Liz really took to and started quoting in interviews. I think she really did envision herself following the same path they did, and it always struck me that the line "I'm starting to think it could happen to me like it did to you" reflects that. For me, the lyrics "They don't know what they like so much about it / They just go for any shiny old bauble, and nobody sparkles like you" seem to be about how people, especially in music scenes, always align themselves with whatever's starting to draw attention at any given moment, to be part of it. I'm sure Liz felt a lot of this when _Guyville_ happened; a lot of the guys in that scene who had previously dismissed her in her "band wife" days were likely starting to give her attention and she all of a sudden had to deal with all these hangers-on. "But I can't imagine it in better terms than naked, half-awake, about to shave and go to work" probably denotes the detachment she likely felt at the time; sort of like when you're still waking, your senses are dulled, and you're not really feeling anything. There were times when she was probably on the outside looking in at what was happening to her and felt like it was happening to someone else, a sense of being removed from it all. Perhaps this is why she now says in interviews that she can't remember what all that attention felt like at the time, that she can't remember how she felt four years ago. Anyway, I'm glad to see so much discussion of this song. It's long been one of my favorites on _Whip-Smart_, but I always felt it was underappreciated since it never gets mentioned here that much. Still sort of only half-awake himself, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:35:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Nicole W." Subject: Nashville I thought it was "but i can't imagine it in better terms..." not "any better times". In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Just so ya know, and you can like... sing it the right way now. :) Add that to my garden of ewoks page? Well for some reason, the NEW host of my website has been "upgrading" for four days now, and my site has been fucking DOWN. Grrrrrr... it's never coming back, is it? This is angelfire's sick joke to get back at me for leaving. I'm not giving up yet, tho, cuz it was a bitch and a half to move my site. ARGH! Hey... I'm not going to be an unemployed poor college student anymore. I'm goign to be an EMPLOYED poor college student. But I get to play with little babies! Yay! I also get to change stinky diapers and be spit up on. Hmm well it's give and take, I guess. Let's hope I can do it. I've only changed one diaper in my life. Well you gotta start somewhere. Hey I was watching some nature show the other day. Well I wasn't watching it cuz I LOATHE nature shows, but I was in someone's room and he was watching it, and suddenly there was a road sign that said "Alice Springs" and I was like "That's a Liz Phair song!" I know I know, it's some place in Australia that has opals or something... blah blah blah, but it was as close to seeing Liz on TV that one can get usually. Yee haw. It's also the bottom of my Liz content sandwich. See I had liz content in teh beginning, non-liz in the middle, and liz on the bottom. Cool. Later, Nicole * * * * * * * * * * * * "Perfect is a fault, and fault lines change." -R.E.M. "Push me and I will resist/ This behavior's not unique" -Pearl Jam "Insanity is super sanity." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:25:40 -0500 From: "Michael Worrell" Subject: Blair Witch Hoax Revealed! Hmm...everyone thinks that Heather Donahue perished in the woods near Burkittsville, Maryland in 1994. Well, after seeing a commercial on VH1 while watching "The List" (whatever the hell that is, it was stupid and inane), I have evidence that not only did Heather Donahue survive the ill-fated "Blair Witch Project", but thrived and prospered afterwards... Are you ready? Can you handle the revelation I am about to unveil? Stop the presses, call William Randolph Hearst--Heather Donahue is alive and well, working under an assumed name. This name is... Fiona Apple. I saw the commercial for Apple's new album, and it hit me--those messed-up, drug-addled eyes; that pathetic forlorn look--it's Heather Donahue. Plain and simple. Think about it: Donahue purportedly died in 1994. In 1995, Fiona Apple comes out of nowhere to record Tidal. It worked for Chris Gaines. It worked for Heather Donahue. Next up: We continue our investigation of the whereabouts of Michael Williams; Joshua Leonard may actually be dead. We don't know. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:34:41 -0600 From: "Jennifer R Rupe" Subject: Chicago Any cool places I should go see (Liz related or not) while I am there all by my lonesome during the day in Chicago?? Your suggestions would be much appreciated! Just e-mail me personally. Thanks!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:55:07 -0800 (PST) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: Nashville > Anyway, I'm glad to see so much discussion of this > song. It's long been one > of my favorites on _Whip-Smart_, but I always felt > it was underappreciated > since it never gets mentioned here that much. > > Jase > I think jase is right on the money with this observation. Nashville is a sleeper song that turns out to be a favorite of many liz fans. I had a poll on my website (Nashville - A Liz Phair Website) that asked the people their favorite liz songs. this was before WCSE and covered everything before then. About 200 people took the poll and Nashville was like the #5 song on the list, right up there with Divorce song, Fuck and Run, Etc. An interesting note: the lead single off of Ws, Supernova, was #9, behind Nashville. I was suprised that Nashville placed that high. It was my favorite song off of WS but I thought it was just me. Robert Joyner LOL at the Elizabeth I'm coming to join ya reference in Waiting for the Bird that Al mentioned. that was hilarious. ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 23:32:02 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Sending big articles Moe wrote: >Jason: >>I can, however, foresee a problem with such long articles being posted if >>list activity increases to the point where we start having multiple digests >>per day again. At that time, some sort of guideline may have to be set > >Like cutting the articles in small parts but that could also take place >now when the digests are small. I know the feeling of starting to >read an article and then ending up scrolling because it's too big. >So maybe we could only send a couple of paragraphs per digest. Sure, this sounds good to me. I've noticed that this is something you've done quite often on HLL, and it seems to work quite well there. Perhaps if people are to do this, when they post the first part, they can include the URL for the full article so that those who want to read the rest right away are able to, provided the article hasn't already been moved to another location. Jase NP: XTC, _English Settlement_ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #326 ************************************