From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #315 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, October 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Really, I am entirely satisfied with the list.  Really. ["Timothy Wro] Melissa Auf Der Maur ["Sally Mae" ] Liz' music change [Moe ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #314 [Easter ] Re: Melissa Auf Der Maur (OT) [Soul Full ] wilco? wilco? wilco? wilco? [Meow Grrl ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:57:43 EDT From: "Timothy Wrobel" Subject: Re: Really, I am entirely satisfied with the list.  Really. I've got all 4 of Liz's High School yearbooks. Still having a hard time coming across those Oberlin yearbooks though. Maybe I'll get lucky within the new year. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:05:36 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Melissa Auf Der Maur Melissa has offically left Hole and Hole's going to announce it on MTV sometime soon according to a Hole website. Isn't is sad?........Sally *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:17:22 +0300 From: Moe Subject: Liz' music change Steve: >It's not just you, Al. Tiffany Wilson and Moe from France both said a >few months ago that change is good but if the change starts to erode the >'traits' that first attracted you to the artist, it's probably not cool. >In this case, the traits are Liz's guitar sound and unconventionality of >the songs themselves -- studio gloss notwithstanding. *nodding* Moe - Impressed that someone remembers what he said several months ago :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Easter Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #314 Whoa, #314 was really quiet. Liz has never played Carnivore live that we know of. Oh well... Steve wrote: >The only problem I have with Liz's shows is that she >seems to think she's playing for a new audience each >night Good point. There's so many songs I'd love to hear of course. Alice Springs, Canary, X-Ray Man, Help Me Mary......stuff she performed at her earlier shows. How about another thread? List five albums you remember your parents playing when you were growing up as a child. Desire - Bob Dylan Tango in the Night - Fleetwood Mac The Other Side of the Mirror - Stevie Nicks The John Lennon Collection Let It Be - The Beatles Yeah, I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record with the artists I enjoy listening to. Katie ();) NP: Sweetwater_Cycles ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "You don't know what it's like to listen to your fears. You can talk to me." -John Lennon ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:54:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Soul Full Subject: Re: Melissa Auf Der Maur (OT) - --- Sally Mae wrote: > Melissa has offically left Hole and Hole's going to > announce it on MTV sometime soon according to a Hole > website. Isn't is sad?........Sally That sucks. I hope she gets a great deal and becomes rich and famous, cause she rocks!!!! paige- ===== "Who do I gotta shag to get outta here?" Tori Amos-"Glory of the '80s" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:08:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Meow Grrl Subject: wilco? wilco? wilco? wilco? Calling all Wilco fans! Thanks to everyone for their country-ish recommendations from way back .... I'm the owner of 2 new Wilco albums (summerteeth and being there, both fantastic) as well as tickets to see them in Boston next week. Likin it a lot! Woo-hoo! If anyone has any further Wilco info to help me, like set lists or boots, I'd love to hear from you. dp, nice to see you posting ... I am taking your guitar info seriously of late ... I'll tellya, I always skip over people's Liz dreams (what's the point?) so I won't be offended if you do the same regarding this paragraph ... ok here goes ... I dreamed I was in the audience of a show and was hanging with Liz. The chick onstage was covering "Mesmerizing" and Liz and I were arm in arm, having a grand old time in the pit and getting into it, singing along ...so I was singing along with Liz to "Mesmerizing" and we were both singing along to someone who was doing a COVER of "Mesmerizing" ... it was one of those picture-within-a-picture things .... like the Land O Lakes girl holding a Land O Lakes box in her hands ... this neverending cyclical thing ... I bet no one gets what I'm talking about. ok, done with the dream ... hmmm, Jase, you said you are going thru one of the happiest times in your life right now ... I'm right there withya ... anyone out there just beginning to date someone that you reeeeaaaalllyy like? I am in that new, highschoolish, getting-to-know you place that is so much fucking fun ... it's worth bottling, this feeling is ... can't tell you the last time I spent an evening just KISSING someone ... anyway, one night a friend of his asked me "What kind of music do you listen to?" and I hesitated, thinking, trying to decide what to say, and my sort-of guy broke in with: "She likes Liz Phair." Don't that say it all! oh yeah ... my roommate emailed me this Liz-related thing from Billboard.com, and it's so lame I can't even comment (except to say it sounds TOTALLY staged), but I thought I'd share it anyway: Has Chart Success Eluded Liz Phair? Dear Fred, It goes without saying that I read your column every week and am always very interested in its content, even if I'm not a fan of the subject of every question. My question has to do with Liz Phair. I know that she has received critical acclaim for her music, especially her 1993 debut, "Exile In Guyville." I don't think this album sold enough copies to make it onto the album charts; I'm wondering how well her two follow-up albums fared. I was expecting great things from her latest effort, "whitechocolatespaceegg," and if I remember correctly, it debuted on the album chart in the top 40, but I'm not sure of its success after that. Has Liz ever broken into the Hot 100? And if so, what were the singles to do it for her? I think her music is wonderfully catchy and complex, sometimes more ear candy than the current top slate of pop tunes. Why hasn't the public latched onto her? I think she'll be around for a long time, though. Thank you very much, Brad Fielder Los Angeles Dear Brad, Liz Phair has been a critical favorite, but her chart performance hasn't equalled that acclaim yet. Her only Hot 100 appearance was with "Supernova," which peaked at No. 78 the week of Nov. 26, 1994. She's had three albums appear on The Billboard 200: "Exile In Guyville" (No. 196, 1994), "Whip-Smart" (No. 27, 1994), and "whitechocolatespaceegg," which did debut in the top 40, as you remember, at No. 35. That was also its peak position, the week of Aug. 29, 1998. Next millennium, Liz? Thinking of mountain biking, Sandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:15:34 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Julia Rios" Subject: why i like wcse Hello to everyone, some of you may remember me from digests past and i expect that many of you don't. i haven't posted in ages and admittedly i haven't been too hot about reading the digest very much of late. there have been times when i thought, why not just stop the subscription instead of deleting it everyday or maybe skimming it first? but i didn't unsub, i couldn't bring myself to and finally in a bout of brooding about life in general i relaized why. this list isn't always entertaining (nicole has the right of it) it isn't always fun, it doesn't always tell me important information or keep up a variety of topics. But all the same it does something for me. it has given me a lot of tools to get around in the last year and a half. I have received tapes and videos and posters and most of all friends. even if i don't keep in touch and even if i can't seem to make irc work anymore, i value the people i have met through this list. i admire jason to a great extent for all the work he puts into this so we can all have a free place to vent and gossip and share bits of news. no one pays him for his time and effort. Thank you jase. you're one in a million. in the past year i have changed dramatically, i think the fall of 1998 was my season of liz. my love of liz got me into all sorts of good times. i met some wonderful friends... steve k, nicole, nora, meredith, ken, jase just to name a few and the rest of you please don't feel left out too many names would bore the crowd. I met liz herself in person not once but twice that fall. i found a very valuable friend (who i hope i will always keep) in liz's back up singer, janet rains. I lost my car in delware after a philly show, but i gained a whole lot of new experiences and stories and i found out i was capable of being a lot more open minded even though i already thought of myself as an openminded person. the petty arguments on the list made me think about a lot of things. i won't deny myself the liking of anything now until i have given it a thorough chance without judging on the surface. i refuse to feel ashamed of liking non-deep or unintelligent things like the spice girls. and i have learned to not judge other people for liking those things (alanis, brittney spears etc). i have made a lot of new friends outside the list because i have become more open. and i have to give the list some credit for making see some of the truths that are out there. i can differentiate between intelligent and not, and i will always consider liz to be my favorite artist because she does something that is near impossible. she throws out truths whether they are nice or not, with just a phrase and it hits home and it always manages to seem beautiful even if it is a harsh truth. she shows the truth instead of telling. she does it with her words and then she creates a musical atmosphere that emphasizes this truth in question. i can listen to her music on any level and be happy and i find that i never tire of it. i go through phases where i listen to one of the albums more than the rest but overall they all get equal play. so as it generally seems to happen, i noticed that people are grumbling about wcse again. i know this is a rather lengthy post for a person who has for all intents and purposes been in hiding for months, but i felt the need to defend the album. or at least i need to say what i think makes it worthwhile. I fell in love with the music when i heard exile back in '93. it was so true, it was not all happiness and light, but it wasn't bitter dark death and despair. it was perfect for the depressed high school sophomore that i was. it was the angry and sad but at the same time we're going to get through this music that kept me going in the bad times and kept my spirits up in the good times. then i found whipsmart and it was more laid back, less angry, but no less true. the best thing about liz in all her albums is that it is never all black or all white. it is always "this is what i see right now... it's good sometimes and bad sometimes, but it's all a beautiful picture with many different angles." no, liz didn't really say that, but i can imagine her saying something like that (just probably in better words than i can come up with). the mark of an artist is that they can make others see their visions. i always feel like i am in on a sort of secret when i hear her songs. she's allowed me and whoever else cares to listen to see her visions. so i never denounced whipsmart either. then there came wcse, the long awaited much anticipated album (i am leaving out juvenilia and all unreleased things in this post in order that maybe everyone won't kill me for the length). on august 11th as soon as i could i ran out to the tower records on sunset in LA because that was the place where i was that day and my heart kind of pounded and skipped especially when i saw the liz posters up in the window. how long had i been waiting for new stuff? surely forever. finally the moment was here. i bought the cd rushed to my cousin's house, commandeered her stereo and listened... bewildered. this wasn't liz i thought. this was much too glossy and poppy. what happened to MY liz? the raw and rough truth speaking woman i admired so much? where was she? that was my first impression. and then i sat back and listened again. really listened. and i realized that this was still liz. but she is older... more mature and with more of a budget to make it all sound glossy. she's got more experience and is not so angry and not so sad and more polished and confident now. so it all sounds different. but the truths are still there. if you listen. we are still getting to see the pictures in her head and they have changed and are ever changing, but she is still icredibly intelligent and creative. listen to the sounds, listen to the words... a sampling of imagery that i treasure follows. i write the lyrics but mean for the music that accompanies it to be considered here too: "Yes I'm winning, spinning, i feel energy being pulled on from all sides..." "and who the fuck am i to criticize..." "just sitting next to a mortal makes their skin crawl," "You've got to pick up the little pieces every day," "it's hard to believe you were once a beautiful dancer.. better just to shake it off" "you hold me and i can't feel you, we hurt but we smile..." "louis says he's got a headache, i look in his eyes and i believe him..." i could put so many more quotes in here, but i won't because i have wasted enough of your time. i hope somebody liked at least one thing that i said in this post because then it woudn't have been a waste of time. Julia :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:17:18 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Alice Hartzog" Subject: lori phamos (again) sorry, but i know what the name of the album would be (and then i'll really shut up): Whipping Boys for Pele! alice - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- "You know, taken out of context I must seem so strange--" Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:16:35 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Alice Hartzog" Subject: lori phamos oh my god i LOVE LORI PHAMOS!! heh. how about "me and a gunshy" as a hidden track? ok that doesn't make sense but neither does "cloud on my dick" maybe it's about not making sense sort of like the talking heads okay i'll shut up now. alice - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- "You know, taken out of context I must seem so strange--" Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #315 ************************************