From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #303 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, October 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 303 Today's Subjects: ----------------- B&P.................4ME? ["a b" ] Thou shalt not sell out. [Dan ] Re: liz's restaurant [dbickin@ibm.net] "Selling out" [Craig King ] Re: "Selling out" [tommyk7@excite.com] Where Do You Get The Fuck Off Thinking... ["M.L. Magdalene" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:20:52 PDT From: "a b" Subject: B&P.................4ME? Hellooo, Could someone please make me a CDR of Pharities ? Maybe we could do a B & S.A.S.E. :) It would really make me happy if I could get a copy. Thanks, JFB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:58:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Subject: Thou shalt not sell out. Pseudo-dan um...wrote..i guess, the following: >i thought damn liz rules listen to >those vocals, they rock! but i was blinded by how cool she was now what >i was blinded by was how commercial it was i know this is >stupid but i prefer the 96 demos to this maybe cause i like 4 track >recordings so what i mean is that liz is goin sooooo fargin >commercial it bugs me im glad she is makin some money but damn > matador was a perfect label for her but noooo she went to that >main stream bull shit so i have been thinkin that i am so eager to >hear the new album but is it gonna be too fuckin commercial trite and >contrived i hope not Dan, be honest..did you really think Whitechocolatespaceegg was a *bad* album? I mean, do you consider "selling out" and "going soo fargin commercial" widening musical range? I mean, how did she sell out? Did her lyric-writing ability go down the toilet? No. She still has amazing lyrics. The songs are catchy - but not annoyingly popp-ish. There is just a bit more to them. She can't be the "girl and her guitar with a 4-track in her room" forever. But hell - in a way, with songs like "Girl's Room" and "Perfect World" - she still manages to pull that off amazingly well. I doubt there was much of a budget for either of those songs. It's not like she has a rap segment in any of the songs or anything..and about Matador - I think Matador was a perfect *starting out* label for Liz. In all honesty, I think they have some great artists signed, they have a pretty funny sense of humor - but all in all - I think they are just too small a label for Liz now. God that sounds rude..but they've been bugging me lately. And from a few of their comments that I've read in the past - they seem a little too pretentious and snobby for Liz. I mean, I think Liz Phair (along with Pavement and a few others) really helped put Matador on the map. I think I read somewhere that Liz is Matador's biggest seller...if not she has to be close - but hell - hopefully Capitol can give her more exposure, and make her albums a bit more accessable. Sorry..the whole sell-out thing lately just really bothers me. Maybe I just don't get it. If an artist is established and truly talented, I can't see the record label getting in the way of creativity. I mean, for Liz, she was established with Matador. She has a following, she will sell...even if only to her immediate fans. We gave her 2 gold albums. (is WCSE gold yet?) I don't know..I can't even see Liz *allowing* someone to mess with her music that much. If someone is going to tamper with it..I could only see liz releasing it if she thought it helped the song become something more. (This post was both a response to "dan" and to clarify the fact that *this* Dan can spell..dan - those spaces are REALLY annoying. Wait at least half an hour after you smoke the joint to send a post...) ****The Vitamin C album was sad to listen to. There are 2 songs I like...I don't know...I tried to like it..I'm listening to it right now..but lyrics like "Imagine a world where girls, girls ruled the earth, imagine a world where boys, boys could give birth..would Xena be queen would..oh blah bla bla.." It kind of shocked me more than i thought. I'm not going to say she sold out (ha!) but...I will definetely say that her song writing ability got flushed down the toilet...in a big way. I was hoping it would be a bit more intelligent..like, it would sound popp-ish and teeny bopper, but it would have cool ass lyrics. I don't know. I was hoping deep down it would sound more like Garbage..(that kind of techno-ish). God..it's so tough. I mean, I guess for that kind of album, it's a good one..but, it is in the same market with Britney Spears and all them..she's even opening for that "boy-band" 98 Degrees. Nothing wrong with completely changing one's style..as long as the talent still remains. But this album..I mean, if Eve's Plum never existed, and Vitamin C just came out - without a past - I'd think.."wow..catchy single..but I bet they totally suck.Just another Britney Spears." oh ya - and she raps now. cranking it up and crying, Literate Dan. (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) "She's still alive, but I am sure, that all the stars belong to her." -HOLE. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 99 11:16:50 -0400 From: dbickin@ibm.net Subject: Re: liz's restaurant >From: Valerie Barry >i never knew it was called "alice's >restaurant massacre", just thought it was "alice's restaurant". learn >something new every day. From what I was told there was a series of Alice's Restaurant themed songs. The only other one I heard was Alice's Restaurant and the Magic Mushroom, or something like that about a giant mushroom that for some reason the army wanted to get. It wasn't very good; neither the utter charm of the "twenty-seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures to be used as evidence against us" or the direct force of the anti-war message "I walked up to the shrink and I said, 'Shrink, I want to kill... I mean, I mean, I want to kill....' and the sergeant walked over and pinned a medal on me and said, 'you're our boy.'" (And I can certainly freak people out by being able to deliver the entire rant with a glow in my eyes.) >ummm..liz content...just waiting for new stuff, >rediscovering whip-smart (again) in the meantime. i've discovered that WS >is a better album than EIG to convert people. sending my blank cds at >lunch tomorrow, i promise! I find Whip-smart ot be better too. I have to worry less about offending anyone with the language and Exile seems to take longer to deliver its message. Whip-smart seems to give the full range of Liz's work in a single-length record, while Exile takes two. WCSE starts off with relatively slow songs, not bad songs, just not I think representative of Liz's songs in general. I tell people to start with song three, then play the first two at the end of the album. Mind you, Exile, is, IMHO, the better record cause its message is more striking, and the best songs from Exile are better than the best songs from WS or WCSE. Am I wrong in thinking that it would be a bad sign if we end up having another shelved/demo tape circulating, as that would mean that Liz is changing direction again, and the wait will be longer rather than shorter for the final album? Later, David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:54:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: "Selling out" Dan wrote: >Sorry..the whole sell-out thing lately just really bothers me. Maybe I just don't get it.<< Dan - I couldn't have said it better myself. I really enjoyed your response and I agree 100%. I have never understood the whole concept of selling out. It just makes no sense to me. I mean, the whole reason someone is in the music industry is to sell albums right? I personally don't have a whole lot of respect for artists who stay in the same musical pattern for their entire careers. If they do that their music gets boring and predictable. What Liz has been doing with each successive album is streching the musical boudaries, while still keeping that "Liz Phair sound". Can anyone honestly tell me that they would have liked it if every single Liz album sounded like Exile? I know I wouldn't. I want to hear something different. I want to hear something that suprises me, and that's exactly what Liz has been doing. What she is doing is keeping the music fresh, which keeps her interested, keeps the audience interested and keeps her motivated her to write new material. I think Liz said it best when she said "I like the songs best that suprise me in their writing". I couldn't agree more. Liz suprises me with each album she puts out. Each album sounds different, and has it's own personality. Liz doesn't want to be stuck in the past, musically. She wants to move forward and I think that we (the fans) should support that. I know I do. Craig Phair Territory http://phairterritory.freeservers.com Stone Temple Pilots - "No. 4": released on October 26! P.S. Can't wait for Tom Petty live tonight here in Madison, WI!!!!!!!!!!! ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:01:37 PDT From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: Re: "Selling out" On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:54:47 -0700 (PDT), Craig King wrote: > Dan wrote: > > > >Sorry..the whole sell-out thing lately just really > >bothers me. Maybe I just don't get it. > > Dan - I couldn't have said it better myself. I really > enjoyed your response and I agree 100%. I have never > understood the whole concept of selling out. It just > makes no sense to me. Selling out = Vanilla Ice (not that I really cared, mind you) TMK NP: Nine Inch Nails, _The Fragile_ (Best release of 1999 - agree/disagree?) Blood in the streets in the town of New Haven Blood stains the roofs and the palm trees of Venice Blood in my love in the terrible summer Bloody red sun of fantastic L.A. - -The Doors ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:11:06 PDT From: "M.L. Magdalene" Subject: Where Do You Get The Fuck Off Thinking... >I'm new to this group, so please please please don't flame me when I > >request any boot CDs anybody might want to sell/trade Yeah now you're in trouble. Where do you get the fuck off thinking that we're the type of people that would want to do anything like that?! I'm just kidding...((i hope you realize that))and welcome to this little game.... Hopeless..but not Dopeless.... M "And everythings ok this side of town, It's better now that you are not arounc, Without the time to bother or to prove, You know that all my prayers are for you" ((Charles S. McVey)) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:19:26 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: beth and aimee >I'm new to this group, so please please please don't flame me when I >request any boot CDs anybody might want to sell/trade. damn, what music groups have you been hanging out on? so, add me to the group of people who DO like beth orton and aimee mann both. with beth, I like the celtic sound and the lilt in her voice, at least on trailer park, I haven't heard the new one yet. and I finally picked up whatever, and I really like it a lot. so my thanks goes out to those on the list who have raved about these and other artists. along with liz phair info and trading, I think exposure to new artists is one of the best things about this list. and as for that homophobia thread, blanket hatred should burn in hell where those guilty of it will be force fed gallons of viscous demented liquor and subjected to an endless torture of mamba no. 5...a song I once enjoyed until every soho in town started singing it. wait, does that count as blanket hatred?? eh, it's the greek system, whatever, I'm knocking the system, not the individual, assuming there are many individuals in it. jake "I insist we barter with the moon to sell the patient's cohesive lyrical maps in exchange for a vision of the future." - low-fi all stars ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #303 ************************************