From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #297 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, October 7 1999 Volume 02 : Number 297 Today's Subjects: ----------------- nothing a pick axe couldn't handle [Momus ] Cheery mornings, lack of coffee & Liz... [Shelly & John ] setting the record(ing) straight [Mike Marlatt ] music man ["Dana Polachowski" ] Morrissey traders? My ditty speech [Easter ] how do I get off this list? [Josh Woo ] a little late .... [Meow Grrl ] random retaliations [Meow Grrl ] Last time I mention Eve's Plum [Dan ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #296 [Biggerd000@aol.com] my usual ramblings [LULU428@aol.com] Vitamin C / Guided By Voices [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] tonite on, deceive inveigle obfuscate ... [Ascending to the Stars Subject: nothing a pick axe couldn't handle morgan admonishes: >AAH!!!!! Wishful thinking!!!! None of that allowed here. ...wishful or otherwise! don't even think about it! >It boggles the mind. Any takers??? ...for a boggled mind? no thanks, got my own...but its kind of you to offer yours. the delightful and effervescent Jaime sends warm regards: >Attack from MrE: >>listen... that's exactly what i was saying! ...ouch...slapped again...hey...'i liked it...i liked it yeah...i liked it'...but i swear i do swear, that if ever see another commercial with shania twain in a top hat...no, that's not it...there was, uh...i'll get back to ya...'listen...i'm about ready to take my elbows off this table...when i say your name...' had some liz news...but its about a year old now...don't suppose its...nevermind...whatever...oh well...which makes me wonder...kurt did two and a half bites and a shell...michael h strapped himself to a door jam...and celine the boat lady has a new release forthcoming...don't tell me you have no opinion. so...how about that red delicious. inevitably MrE - -- "Living and dying...we feed the flame" - Clive Barker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 05:19:55 -0700 From: Shelly & John Subject: Cheery mornings, lack of coffee & Liz... From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: Re: The wait "My annoying secretary always has to be extra-cheery in the morning...today I started wearing headphones through the lobby to dissuade her from chatting...to no avail - she asked me what I was listening to! ..." *secretly giving an evil giggle* On my door at work, I have a sign that flips over. One side says "Warning, I've not had any form of caffeine yet, enter at your own risk." The other is blank. I love the idea of shocking someone into silence...try throwing file filled manilla folders around while saying wickedly half-under your breath..."The next person to..." Usually works for me. I'm more or less the trouble-shooter at work, lately I've had a quote post-it noted to my monitor: "Don't have time for all of your problems... Why don't you solve them? ~~Liz Phair" Between that and my singing "Batmobile" to myself on the way to our lunch cruise...maybe they get the hint? ~gunshy~ Shelly NP: Indigo Girls, Shaming the Sun ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:51:58 EDT From: NappyZoe@aol.com Subject: me too Jaime said: << by the way... i realized i hate beth orton. i dont understand the fact that i hear her on the radio and not liz. >> And I say: PRAISE THE LORD!! You have NO IDEA how happy I am to find out that someone BESIDES ME can't STAND Beth Orton!! I am sooooooooooo on your side about this, Jaime. I used to work at Tower Records and we had her latest CD as in-store play FOREVER and they totally wore it out. I couldn't stand her then and I can't stand her to this day. Liz deserves SOOOOOO much more radio play than she does. 'Nuff said. Hate me now if you must, but at least that's off my chest. Stacy, tjb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 08:11:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: another Liz converter Looks like we have another Liz phan on our hands! I made one of my friends 2 Liz compilation CD's for his birthday a few months ago, and he says he loves them! He also said he wants to see Liz live the next time she tours. In fact we were in a used CD shop over the weekend and he was taking a hard look at Exile, but didn't buy it at that moment because he was running low on $$$$. Another sign he's converted is that a little while ago, I was at his house and saw that he had a piano in his house (turns out it was his sisters piano). So I sat down at it and started figuring out Liz's version of "Chopsticks". Immediately he said "Hey! That's the Liz Phair version right?!". Ok, so you had to be there, but it was pretty cool. I'm just glad that finally one of my friends is into Liz. All of my other friends hate Liz, so this is a welcome change. Craig "AdRock" NP: Rage Against The Machine - Evil Empire ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:28:21 -0400 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: setting the record(ing) straight I've held off on throwing my opinion into the ring about bootlegging and tape trading because it looked like the list was going to get to some near correct conclusion on their own. Unfortunately the gentleman who posted yesterday about it all being illegal took it on a bit of an incorrect tangent. So not to preach like an authority, because I'm sure I don't know it all, but I trade an average of 5 or 6 discs worth or live music a week and here's what other people like me recognize the policies to be: 1) Only certain bands allow taping at their shows. Some even set up taper sections. In all cases the band allows taping for personal use or trading only. Phish has set out some of the best trading guidelines and they have served as a standard for traders of other bands. The gist of it is: *NO 2 blanks for 1 disc trades (It's about sharing an interest, not about being compensated for time. And when you think about it, giving someone a disc is really not much different than giving them cash. The bands are intending for the music to be shared among friends, and that includes new friends they meet online. They are not intending for some guy to use the music as a means to not have to buy more blanks) *NO selling *NO posting your list of shows on a website with banner ads (only Phish and the Grateful Dead really enforce this one). Others bands that endorse taping and trading for personal use: Dave Matthews Band, Grateful Dead, Blues Traveller, Pat McGee Band, Vertical Horizon, Widespread Panic, Ben Folds Five, Soul Coughing. In these cases the trading of the recordings is not "illegal", it's endorsed. The best way to find out if it's OK to record a show is to ask the soundguy. Some of the nice ones may even let you plug your DAT into their soundboard (hence there are so many perfect older DMBand and Phish recordings around). A "B&P" is the expression for sending someone blanks and postage to burn or spin a show for them. Look at what Ken Lee did for the people of this list. All he asked for was enough to cover the costs involved (maybe not even that much). That's how trading or B&Ping is meant to be done. 2 for 1's don't fit into that philosophy. P.s.to ken. I'll get that cash out to you ASAP. thx MIKE MARLATT Investment Advisor NESBITT BURNS INC. Work Tel: 604-443-1622 Fax: 604-443-1490 Toll Free: 1-888-346-3133 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:04:55 -0700 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: music man > My belief has always been that part of the point of > going in to the studio is to try things that you can't > necessarily do live. Of coarse, there is a fine line > between experimentation and overproduction. I don't > think Liz and family (esp. Buddy, isn't that a great > rock'n'roll name? Buddy Judge) will let us down. > True, I doubt the magnificence and magic of the lo-fi > "Exile" could ever be topped or reproduced with all > the production in the world, but a growing Liz suits > me better than a stagnant one trying to recapture a > past moment. > So I suppose sometime early next year we'll all find > out. Until then, let's keep it interesting... > i agree with this, especially about tryin' to do stuff in the studio that you can't do with just two guitars and a drum kit. but there's always a danger of "dumbing down" the whole message because, hey, you're just makin' a pop song... i guess my fave artist with regard to the whole lo-fi vs technology thing is beck. he's a master at both. and with "mutations" he went *back* to a more lo-fi approach, and *damn* if that isn't some of the best stuff he's ever done.... regarding this whole tape-trading thing or whatever it's called, keep in mind these people *are* doing you a FAVOR as well; this is stuff you can't buy in a store, where you'd pay $18 anyway.... *of course* you have to agree to terms you can live with--duh!!--but i have no problem sending a bunch of blanks to get something i'd otherwise have NO CHANCE of obtaining--mailed right to my doorstep. plus, i'm sorry, there IS the person's time involved. we all have busy lives and they are offering to take time out to do this for you--and they probably had to hunt the stuff down, which takes time.... i really don't think the whole scenario is solely about "ripping people off." i mean, PLEASE. either you want something or you don't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Easter Subject: Morrissey traders? My ditty speech Does anyone trade for Morrissey? My brother is looking for some good quality boots from his current tour, preferably on cds if possible. I have a lot to trade. Please email me privately if anyone can help us out. Thanks! Anyhoo...I delivered my speech on Monday. Can't comment on how well I did, since I haven't watched the video yet. *bleh* I got a response from one guy when I tested the VCR to see if it worked. "oooooh, she's hot." Well, yeah, I know. Then when I was finished, he asked more about Liz, so I dunno if my purpose of the speech was successful. :) Katie ();) NP: Traveling Wilburys_Volume_One (Thanks Craig!) ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "You don't know what it's like to listen to your fears. You can talk to me." -John Lennon ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Josh Woo Subject: how do I get off this list? ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:39:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Meow Grrl Subject: a little late .... I realize I am rather late in joining this discussion …. Ok, so Love/Hate Transmission. I wish I could say I had a love/hate relationship with it. Unfortunately, I think I just hate it. Hello keyboards! I feel sort of like I am listening to Saga’s On the Loose … any oldies remember that song? Doubtful. Anyways, I have this weird feeling that … well, you know how Liz named the album whitechocolatespaceegg b/c the name came to her in a dream? I almost have this feeling that she had a dream where she had to sing lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-u-u-uh-un. I mean, why else would she do it? WHY ELSE?? I think someone made a Hole reference at some point. OK, maybe it sounds a little like Courtney might sound …. But Courtney does it better. Do I like it? Not yet. I’ve listened to it about five times. Perhaps if I knew the lyrics I wouldn’t be so easily pulled into the 80s where this song seems to have come from. (And don’t get me wrong, the 80s were great; let’s just keep them there, shall we?) But Liz lyrics have a way of saving songs. Can I take a stab at the lyrics? Let’s see. [no idea about the first line] I’m on the run and doing it on my own My body’s really naked It’s just a real ???? And it’s lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un And it’s lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un They tried to ??? my own desire My own desire is itching?? me out of my mind It always seems so wasteful To make love ????? When it’s lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un Love/hate transmission. Yeah, yeah, yeah-ee-yeah Love/hate transmission Yi-yi-yi-ee-yah. I am on a mission?? but I need a motor I wanted my mother to get it but she wouldn’t do it I only asked a question But she just can’t ?????? And it’s lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un Lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un Love/hate transmission. Oiy-iy-iy-yi! Love/hate transmission Yi-yi-yi-yi-ah! [weird wailing … I think someone already made a cranberries reference, so I won’t bother.] [weird my-voice-is-imitating-the-keyboard-really-badly hooting] [no idea what this line is] Every direction I went in was stupid My ????????????? But you were baking bread (I know this isn’t it, but it really sounds like it) And it’s lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un Lo-o-o-ove hay-ay-ate trans-mi-i-i-i-shu-uh-uh-uh-un Love/hate transmission. Oiy-iy-iy-yi! Love/hate transmission Yi-yi-yi-yi-ah! Wow, the more I listen to it the less I like it. This disturbs me. Obviously, she must love this song … she just wrote it, and she was performing it live for the first time at these Lilith shows. I just don’t get it. Hopefully a recorded version will shed some more light on it? Maybe? Of course, I have learned to hate overproduction … first with Tori … then Ani … now Liz? I’m sure tons of you will disagree with me … believe me, I am sad that I can’t like this song. However, it’s entirely true that I have been singing it to myself all damn day in the office! o well. sandra np: bring the noise, anthrax and PE ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Meow Grrl Subject: random retaliations Jake, is Boston on that Ani tour list? I always miss her, or she plays all these god-awful huge venues that I won't set foot in ... MrE, I once got together with a guy simply because he said "come over here" exactly when Michael Hutchence did when "Need You Tonight" was playing .. it was at a party sometime pre-1990 ... blame it on youth ... (ah, memories of > my younger years...*laugh*), Shelly, so funny, reading this, I think "Oh, thinking about our younger years," from our very own Bryan Adams' "Heaven" circa 1984 ... > > hey... listen. i agree about the bad-bootlegging > deal, but seriously...i am > a bad speller-- worse since the spell checker was > invented, (i dont even try > now) and it really isnt something you should bitch > about... who's bitching? he asked a question ... the dj said ...'next the lovely jennifer tryin, > ' never heard her called > jennifer before... in Boston, where she's from, I've almost always heard her referred to as Jennifer. > > My annoying secretary always has to be extra-cheery > in the morning...today I > started wearing headphones through the lobby to > dissuade her from > chatting...to no avail - she asked me what I was > listening to! Right then, > a new song began, "I keep a close watch on this twat > of mine..." So I > truthfully said, (under my breath) "Fuck or Die," > and kept walking. I > didn't look back to see what she thought I said, but > I'm not expecting any > chitchat from her tomorrow... Glad I don't work with you. and Jason Tedford, I really appreciate your take on Love/Hate ... hopefully it will help me like it more. (see previous post) feeling feisty, sandra [who's usually not so ... so ... whatever it is I am in these double posts today] ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:15:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Subject: Last time I mention Eve's Plum You know, I finally heard that song *Smile* by Colleen...er..um..fucken Vitamin C or whatever. Anyway - I realized that I already knew the song!! When it first came out - it was kind of like...my secret song that I liked. Even though it was bubble-gumish...I'd kinda always be happy when it came on..I never told any of my friends this..and I NEVER knew it was COlleen. Didn't even know who sang it at the time.. But..I don't know..I think I might pick up the album..it might work as a "make me happy" kinda album..like "put me in a dumb-good mood." Probably be a good album to listen to REALLY drunk - when every song you hear sounds genius and amazing. I swear, I listened to POE one night (who i normally, soberly detest) and I fell in love with it. I'm sober now though. You know, in regards to her (Colleen's) "selling out" - i don't know if I think selling out is all that bad. I mean, think about it - she did the whole "indie-scene" for a looooooong time. 2 great albums with Eve's Plum, she did the whole John Waters movie - other little movie appearances (Higher Learning ect) maybe she just got sick of it and decided to get a little more famous and make a little more money. Hell - she's getting more attention than ever before, this new Vitamin C thing might even open up a few eyes to the glory that was Eve's Plum, and even if she dyes her hair pink and changes her name to Barbie Doll - it still doesn't take away from her documented talent on "Envy" and "Cherry Alive". She still rocks in every aspect on those albums - she's just doing something a little more popular now. A little less..chunky. I don't really see anything wrong with that at all..mind you, it is kind of disapointing..but - selling out? Hmmm..I think she just decided to do something mainstream for a change..turn some heads - and it's working. She's becoming famous. I know there is more to life than fame - but hell - if she wanted it - she met her goal. She's established in my book. Dan (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) "She's still alive, but I am sure, that all the stars belong to her." -HOLE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:41:25 EDT From: Biggerd000@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #296 i was wonderin if the 96 shelved demos have the same songs as the white chocolate space egg demos have and i was wonder where to find bootleg album covers i mean i could make my own and i have but i find that the ones that are already made are way cooler lookin then what i make so if anyonehas anyidea where to get the cover of 96 shelved demos or anyothers please let me know dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 22:10:57 EDT From: LULU428@aol.com Subject: my usual ramblings not to dwell on the same topic but whenever discussion leads to colleen fitzpatrick i always have to put in my 2 cents about her- (i always mention this every few months, sorry!) she went to my high school and was 2 yrs ahead of me and was freinds with my best friends sister. she was considered a drama geek- i remember seeing her in shows from 7th grade on- everyone knew her because she was in every play- and then was in hairspray and we all thought that was so cool. i loved eve's plum- saw them live in boston a few times- she has a presence- for sure- but its too bad to hear that she's gone the pop route- her agent or record co must have suggested she do this drastic transformation- she was so funky and seemed so anti top 40ish - oh well, what can we do except listen to our old eve's plum cd's. i couldnt believe it was her on all those signs plastered around the city. people mag even had a thing on "vitamin c". weird... i finally saw the liz billboard for myself- its unbelievably huge- i'll try to take a pic and then scan it in - she's way too made up for my tastes, but seeing her there so gigantic is really pretty awesome. so far the only rock star i've liked so far in those ck ads is foxy brown- melissa auf de mar looks kinda cute too. the rest are not too flattering, it seems they are trying to make them as unflattering as possible- i just got a new kitten yesterday and he is precious- i just havent named him yet- my other 2 cats are chumby and go go girl (she's actually my friends cat and i have been watching her for the last 6 months) - i need a good name- if anyone has any suggestions... he's a beautiful gray color, furry with green eyes, just to die for! chumby and gogo have been hissing at him all day though. he's been pretty tough, not getting too freaked out at all- i will be boogying down the next few nights at phish - i can't wait- kb- i cant wait to see you!!!!! peace :) Lani can someone please make me a tape of a show with the love/hate song on it? i will send you a blank or just do a trade- pretty please!!! i used to trade with people and make them tapes all the time, i've just gotten so lazy about it..someone please offer... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 22:14:13 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Vitamin C / Guided By Voices I haven't really had much time lately to read all of the list postings, and while catching up earlier this evening I noticed that there has been a lot of discussion about Colleen Fitzpatrick's new Vitamin C project. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled upon a fairly detailed review of the album, a good part of which focuses on the "sell out" issue. In case anyone's interested in checking it out, you can find the review at . Also reviewed in that issue is the latest album by Guided By Voices, another band that either has or hasn't sold out, depending on what your definition of the term is, as they've gradually embraced greater production values and have moved away from their lo-fi roots over their last few releases. Honestly, to me, I don't care either way; all I know is that they've never produced an album as consistent or engaging as _Do the Collapse_, which is easily one of my favorite records this year. If anyone gets the chance to, go see the band on their current tour. I recently saw them in Toronto with fellow list member Steve Kisko, and they are easily one of the best live bands I have seen. I went into the show liking the band; by the time it was over, I loved them. They played a great mix of material, including all but a couple of songs I wanted to hear, during their 100-minute set and three subsequent encores. Their show ended up lasting around two-and-a-half hours after all of the encores, and not once did the energy level let up. We hung around outside the Opera House long enough after the show to catch Jim MacPherson, the drummer (some of you might remember him from the Breeders), come out to load his gear into their van while the rest of the band were still inside. I got him to sign my copy of _Do the Collapse_, and Steve had his picture taken with him. After that, our luck got even better. A girl who was somehow with the band had also come outside and we started talking to her. I don't really remember what was said, but I think we asked her when the rest of the band would be coming out; security had been getting on our case saying we couldn't stand around there all night, so we were hoping it would be soon. Much to our surprise, when she went to go back inside, she told us to come with her. In one incredibly surreal moment, we found ourselves backstage, walking downstairs to a rather crowded room where the band, manager and crew were gathered. After taking everything in and trying to get over my disbelief that this was actually happening, I managed to get two more autographs: one from touring guitarist Nate Farley, the other from Bob Pollard himself. Everyone in the band was really cool and friendly, and although it was over all too soon, when the band left shortly after, Steve and I got our picture taken with Bob outside their van. I have no idea why I'm entitled to so much good luck, but it truly was an amazing night. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:19:46 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Allison" Subject: Origin of WCSE sessions I have a question: Who first got their hands/recording devices on the WCSE sessions? How did they do it? An insider/spy in the studio? Don't get me wrong - I am very appreciative and I own two different versions. I am just curious. If it's a secret give me hint. Thanks, Allison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:46:44 -0400 From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: tonite on, deceive inveigle obfuscate ... we (in the royal sense) played: dub narcotic sounds system Out of your mind rocketship i'm lost without you here vehicle flips honeywell round thermostat ash A life less ordinary kostars jolene on the freeway robyn hitchcock sally was a legend ben lee away with the pixies rainer maria feeling neglected cat power you may know him syrup usa queen of the beach the tentacles the touch cadallaca cadallaca theme/o chenilla the spinanes noel, jonah and me ac acoustics like ribbons gene sick sober and sorry wedding present corduroy REM country feedback (live in stockholm, 11/98) clem snide better kristin hersh cathedral heat the spells the age of backwards marine research (ie the new incarnation of heavenly) parallel horizontal Bis action and drama sleater kinney burn, dont' freeze (my fav cut on the "the hot rock") kid sampson (cool amherst band!) power trip talking heads (nothing but) flowers difference engine pretzel belle and sebastian mary jo madder rose liked you more (when you were high) smiths half a person wilco i'm always in love jeff buckley lover, you should've come over liz phair if i ever pay you back (live, shank hall, 3/11/94??) comments, inquiries, etc most welcome. (:ruthie:) - -- *******Deceive*******Inveigle*******Obfuscate******* "Wild and unwise, I wanna be mesmerizing, too" "So I hope you all will see, there just isn't a place here for me" --Liz Phair "With you here with me I could be happy ... I miss who I used to be" --Jen Trynin "What's the matter with the truth, did I offend your ears?" --Aimee Mann ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #297 ************************************