From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #263 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, September 4 1999 Volume 02 : Number 263 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Liz in Playboy ["S. Adams" ] David Mead ["Ginz" ] Playboy Thingy [Mariam K Hamou ] liz postcards ["Henry, Gregory" ] Liz & Playboy ["Mike Boucher" ] Slides [tommyk7@excite.com] Boys For Pele ["M.L. Magdalene" ] I'm new but not virgin [NappyZoe@aol.com] Liz postcards ["Dennis J. Kim" ] Kristin Hersh/Liz cover ["Allison" ] tori stuff [LULU428@aol.com] Tori, Camille & Liz... [Shelly ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:53:53 +1000 From: "S. Adams" Subject: Re: Liz in Playboy Grr, bugger, tried to send this in for last SuSy (#262) but the damn mail server wasn't up :-( >On Wed, 01 Sep 1999 03:46:09 -0700, Sally Mae wrote: > >"I really hope Liz doesn't pose in Playboy because I think it is really >degrading to pose naked in a national, possibly international magazine just >so males (and some females too I suppose) can perve at her. That's really >bad that posing naked gets women somewhere today, men don't have to pose >naked to get anywhere, bloody sexism. Anyway, I would kinda lose respect for >her if she did pose in Playboy..." Personally it doesn't seem likely that Liz would (as was noted in past SuSys she's changed a lil bit) maybe a few years ago she would have, and frankly I couldn't see an individual like Liz doing some pictorial that was 'degrading'. It would be seen as a promotional tool. Just like having herself on a poster.. except showing a bit more. And like TMK said some stars pose in semi nude, or with cunningly placed limbs to hide bits... hey it could even be to give her an ego boost....bugger, I'm sure there was a good Mae West quote to use somewhere in there I most definitely wouldn't lose respect for her, it wouldn't raise or lower my respect for a wonderful musician. >men don't have to pose naked to get anywhere, bloody sexism I'd say that neither do women, but it'd probably help to promote both sexes, IF that exposure was what they desired, and if it were sensational. Feel free to label me a 'typical guy' but I've never quite understood the idea that it was exploitation of women for them to CHOOSE to pose nude,.. I mean if Heff was forcing someone, then thats another matter. As I understand it, the models are offered a sum of money, they then accept or decline to pose - its their choice . IMHO the exploitation is of peoples voyueristic nature, its why half of those womens magazines survive, grainy pictures of Jennifer Aniston or whoever topless on the beach, and she doesn't even get paid for having her chest flashed around. Oops, starting to ramble. >it's probably just a rumor most probably >Anyone out there with the BALLS to admit they're a subscriber? umm, nope, never subscribed, but I my have purchased a few copies of this particular publication during my younger days... american playboy may be a bit raunchier, but over here its the tamest of any of the nudie mags,.. hmm, an old one had an EIG review in it, so hey it can't be totally bad .. hmm, geez, I've written to much, finshing now - less for someone else to flame me for. Steven NP: Jebediah - Harpoon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 04:02:27 -0400 From: "Ginz" Subject: David Mead ...and I completely forgot..... David Mead will be playing in Philadelphia on Sept 16. Here is the info according to the 88.5 WXPN website. (www.xpn.org) THURSDAY 9/16/99 XPN WELCOMES DAVID MEAD TO THE "XPN STAGE" AT THE UCD 3RD THURSDAYS GO WEST FESTIVAL @ SANSOM COMMON (36TH AND SANSOM STREET), 7 P.M. For those not familiar with Philadelphia, this show is in 'University City', near the Univ. of Pennsylvania and Drexel campuses. For those not familiar with David Mead, he and his band opened on Liz's recent college tour. Philly's local , non-commercial radio station WXPN, has been playing many songs off his new album 'The Luxury of Time'. 'The World Cafe' national radio show, recorded here in Philly lists the album in their top ten. As soon as it's available......I suggest picking up a copy. From what I've heard of the album.... it's quite good. It's funny, because the first time I heard one of the songs on the radio, I said, "Haven't I hearad this before?" Of course I had heard the song...... when David opened for Liz at Crowbar. Funny how your memory works.... ...and it appears there is absolutely no truth to the rumors of Morrissey and Johnny Marr playing together at the Cochella Festval in October. There are three sure-things in life...... death, taxes, and The Smiths will never, ever, ever get back together. That's all the piece of mind a person needs. Hopin' Morrissey comes near Philly this time around.......and still lookin for more posters of Liz..... if you got 'em, and you want to trade 'em, speak up. Ginz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:18:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Mariam K Hamou Subject: Playboy Thingy Hi all, Okay, I'm done. Congratulate me. I'm done my Masters Degree. WOOOHOOOOOO. Now, I have to find a job. ANYHOW, okay, listen - so people are saying what kind of man reads playboy? Well, most men do. This is their source for sex information to see if what they are doing is right. It's like a male cosmo. Now as much as I hate Cosmo and the message it portrays, I enjoy reading their sex columns because it is informative and it's easier than going and asking your doctor. My boyfriend reads playboy and I think it's fine, I have no problems with it and if he wants me to I'll go to the store and pick it up. Come on people - it's the nineties. If the women in the magazine would like to pose nude, it's their business - whether it's to objectify themselves or whether it's to display themselves artistically. My two cents in the morning. Love, Mariam Sometimes a dream is what makes you a slave. Liz Phair ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:24:19 -0400 From: "Henry, Gregory" Subject: liz postcards Hello all: I'm the guy who was sending out liz phair calvin klein postcards. But I honestly was unprepared for the amount of sase's people would send me! I have already mailed out all the postcards I have. Please e-mail me if you sent me an sase and don't receive the postcard in the mail within a week. I'll either "return to sender" your letter to me or keep your sase in case I run into another batch of postcards at one of the local bars. I apologize if the wording of this e-mail is confusing -- I'm too tired today to form complete thoughts, let alone sentences. Thanks. Gregory Henry 5-3199 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:24:37 -0400 From: "Mike Boucher" Subject: Liz & Playboy Had a comment about the whole Liz posing nude thing. Surprised no one has brought this up yet. I'm sure many of you saw Liz on her WCSE tour. When I saw her in NYC she showed a bunch of slides before she came on. The slides were personal pictures of her and family, friends, and included were some were stunning nude/topless pictures of her. Did anyone else these slides? Ever since I saw those pictures I've been dying to get my hands on them but from what I understand they are her own personal pictures and can't be obtained anywhere. Anyone know anything more on that? Anyone film that show, or any shows on that tour? Anyone else see them, or know what I'm talking about? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:10:43 PDT From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: Slides On Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:24:37 -0400, Mike Boucher wrote: "When I saw her in NYC she showed a bunch of slides before she came on. The slides were personal pictures of her and family, friends, and included were some were stunning nude/topless pictures of her. Did anyone else these slides?" I remember the slides - there was a thread here during the time of the tour suggesting that the nudes had been faked - that Liz's face was superimposed on the slides. I didn't believe it; they looked real enough to me - and faking something like that seems so un-Liz-like. Anyway, Liz was a lot younger in the slides, and she had a goofy smile on her face in a lot of them - like she was really baked. They were all black and white, and I didn't recognize any of the other people in them. They were interesting, to say the least. TMK Tool, _Undertow_ Don't freestyle much but I write 'em like such - -Chuck D ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:09:13 PDT From: "M.L. Magdalene" Subject: Boys For Pele >How does everyone else feel about Tori on the list? I really hope >that >this doesn't turn into a huge bashing session, I've never really seen Tori bashed on the list--but anyhow--i love Tori--as far as fave Tori songs go--that's to hard..but i think my fave album is probably Boys For Pele Iggggggggg........ Timmy just doesn't know what to do Tabitha!!!!!!!!!! lMnop ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:41:54 EDT From: NappyZoe@aol.com Subject: I'm new but not virgin Hi. My name is Stacy and I"m a new member on the list, I'm on the digest version. I've been a Liz fan for a long time but recently decided to get my ass on a list. So here I am. I was able to see Liz at Detroit's Lilith Fair this year (yes, I'm in Michigan) and she was AWESOME!!! I worked at the Tower Records booth and she did some signings there, and Liz signed my shirt!! It was so cool. About this whole Playboy issue at hand ...... well, when I worked at Tower Records I was the magazine manager and that means I handled ALL SORTS of magazines, including porn. And let me just say that although I personally would never buy any sort of porn because of my own morals and stuff, Playboy, along with Penthouse, are actually the two most "tasteful" porn magazines I carried. I don't really see much wrong with anyone buying Playboy, but what mostly disgusted me was the dirty minded old men that bought the skanky pornos that featured girls young enough to be their daughters and/or granddaughters. I mean, there are magazines entitled "Live Young Girls," "Barely Legal," "Finally Legal," "Panty Play" ... I could go on. I have looked at these magazines and they have absolutely DISGUSTED me. Playboy, on the other hand, is one of those magazines that you say, "Ok, yeah, it's a porno, but at least they've got class." I actually HAVE read the magazine and yes, they actually DO have good articles. So for Liz to pose in Playboy, well,, it IS her life and she can do whatever she wants, but I don't think she really NEEDS to. If she or anyone else thinks it's a publicity for her or something, well, I don't know, I'd at least respect her enough for choosing Playboy and not some nasty skanky magazine. Just my $.02. Stacy, tjb Oh, and btw.... I like Tori, too. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:44:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dennis J. Kim" Subject: Liz postcards Well, that's it, i'm out of postcards and stickers. If i get anymore, i'll send one to you guys that didn't quite email in time. - --- "Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good." -Samuel Johnson "A'nta baka?" -Asuka d. www4.ncsu.edu/~djkim2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:32:49 -0500 From: "Allison" Subject: Kristin Hersh/Liz cover For you Kristin Hersh fans: I saw her last night at the Double Door in Chicago. It was a great show, just Kristin and her guitar. She talked a good bit between songs and was very funny. The set list was very heavy on Strange Angels material, which was okay with me, but I wish she had played Spring from the new album 'cause that's my favorite song right now. She did play Cathedral Heat which is my second favorite. She said that playing that song by herself, live, is like trying to juggle her ass and her eyebrows. Liz content: My friend who attended the show with me told me that an artist he likes, Robbie Fulks, has been performing a cover of Liz's Help Me Mary in his recent shows. I am not familiar with his music, but he is considered alt-country, and I know he had some really positive reviews for his most recent album. Bye, Allison ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:25:04 EDT From: LULU428@aol.com Subject: tori stuff I know some of you are Tori fans so I thought I'd share- I saw Tori and Alanis the other night at Jones Beach- Tori was just wonderful as usual, but without her usual banter. Liz, Tori and Courtney are 3 women whom I just love to hear banter onstage. Anyway, she forgot the lyrics to leather and sang that in the song- it was pretty funny. She didn't seem to be in a good mood- she stopped a song to yell at the security to move out of the way and then never spoke again. Anyway, it seemed most of the people there were to see Alanis, which I was shocked at! She was fun to watch- but the lyrics of her songs really sound like she is singing journal entries. I liked her first album alot, and enjoyed hearing those songs live, but I absolutely hate her second album. Her diehard fans just ate up those stupid cliched lyrics. I swear she said in one of her songs "I feel fat when I wake up in the morning" my friend and I laughed out loud in hysterics throughout this stupid song that she said she left off her album. We were like -well then why the hell are you singing it? it was terrible- I do have to give her credit for being a really great performer. Although we all thought she looks autistic when she is singing. She just has to fall somewhere on the PDD/Autistic spectrum! Oh, and I love Playboy- my parents have subscribed as long as I can remember. I used to sneak issues into my room as a little girl and look at them out of curiousity. I love to read it now- the most fabulous articles and interviews. The pictures aren't bad to look at either. 6 more days and counting...(til I have 22 new first graders staring back at me!) Lani ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 17:58:07 -0700 From: Shelly Subject: Tori, Camille & Liz... Cynthia Weaver~ Hi! Yeppers, I like Tori...sometimes I find her soothing, other times disturbing, just depends upon the song & my mood. I think my all~time favorite of hers is probably a toss between "God", "Talula" and "Crucify". She's a near catharsis for many, perhaps? John Johnson~ "...Thank goodness there are enough sane feminists out there like Camille Paglia..." YAY Paglia!! Sorry, just had to get that out...Hmmm, I'd love to hear a review of Liz Phair by Camille Paglia. Anyone know of such an animal?? And Playboy...my husband has a subscription, and I read the aritcles. One of my favorites was something like "Why 'Bitch' is a Good Thing." From about three years ago...anyone out there know what I'm talking about or have a copy of this article? I'd love to read it again...(I want to say it was in the issue that had Farah rolling around in paint...) Katie~ Happy Birthday to you! ~gunshy~ Shelly (recuperating from a flippin' rear-end to my car this afternoon, grumble grumble) ~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~** "Sex is a far darker power than feminism has admitted." ~Camille Paglia ~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~**~~** ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #263 ************************************