From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #246 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, August 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 246 Today's Subjects: ----------------- liz content here...............just kidding. ["May Queen" ] BOB ["M.L. Magdalene" ] Bashing [moe@lac2.gulliver.fr] and the loser is... ["Morrise, Jason" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #245 [AMCFLND1@aol.com] Liz postcards ["Henry, Gregory" ] Alanis (I know, I know...) ["steve kisko" ] lyrics vs. music [Dave Bodamer ] Re: Alanis (I know, I know...) [MLevine171@aol.com] Another recipe? [Katie Lynne ] The Spawning [tommyk7@excite.com] meeting liz ["Jenny St. Onge" ] Need help locating song title [AGsPackage@aol.com] Hurricane Cindy ["Henry, Gregory" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] she's a maneater... ["Nicole W." ] original wcse [Kaufmann@IPFW.EDU (Kaufmann,Mike)] johnny may feel good but ray feels bad [raymond lew ] daria [siobha5@ibm.net] regarding the supposed informer infatuated bitch ["tarleton walmsley" Subject: liz content here...............just kidding. well...i everytime i go to wal-mart i see TNMClub by Ms. CROW. and the have the globe sessions. if they heted her so much...how come they are still promoting her products. and i have seen them even when the "controvery was going on"! the curse of sheryl crow......creepy! they actually did that topic on a paranormal show last year or sumthing. oh and can sumone post the final price for those liz tapes? it won't show it anymore. and i feel like having a good faint. or sum wine.....im gonna have some wine. bye mq _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 01:55:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: re: Re: Alan-ass and other fun controversies On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 MLevine171@aol.com wrote: > > All immaturity aside, Alan-ass deserves to be bashed. Maybe not like > > persoanlly, but mus ically. > No one deserves to be bashed unless they are harming you or others..So what? > u dont like Alanis' music..well u don't have to listen to it. Turn it off! > She's not telling u that u have to listen to it..she's expressing herself to > those who want to listen. If u don;t wanna listen, then don't! It's called... shopping. Unless I lived on a farm, which I don't, and provided for myself, I inevitably must shop. In many shops and public places, there are PA systems which blast music. I have not the power to turn off these sounds, nor the money for a pair of earplugs which are powerful enough to stifle the noise. Nor do I feel like lugging around my own headphones everywhere. Even if I did, I would have to turn up the volume on my system enough to drown out the b ackground noise, and the decibel levels required to do this are damaging to my hearing. Hence, there are times when I am forced to listen to Alan-ass and other such "performers." > > >Hey man, the only person I need to respect as a member of the > >support-system digest is Liz Phair, IMHO. Let me get thsi straight: not > >only do you want me to respect another recordign "artist", but you want me > >to mind other members of this list? It's geurilla warfare on here, man! > >(warphair? hahahaha!!!!ugh) It's flame city! (grain of salt) > Well..that IS kinda the idea of respect..I mean I'm a liz phan too, so it's > not like I'm coming onto this list saying LIZ SUX! ALANIS ROX! I used to HATE > hanson for example, and I GREW UP enough to say "U know what? They express > themselves..they are artists..maybe I don't like their music, but u know > what? I shouldn't say I hate them, or make fun of them" it's called MATURITY! > The point of life isn't to go around bashing other people's beliefs, art, > etc..it's the opposite..it's to connect, and be nice with people, even if u > don't share their beliefs. I'm glad you have found the point of life, because I have been going around for 20-odd years wondering just what the hell I am here for. And on the topic of maturity, I think umm... tommyk7@excite.com, a.k.a. TMK would agree with me (although I didn't think I agreed with him, but I do-- with exceptions) that umm... the way one spells certain words would reflect upon one's maturity level. For example: "u" (which besides being annoying in general happens to really get on my nerves), "sux", "rox", and even (but this is a personal pet peeve) "phan". These intentional misspellings lead me to imagine a person of naivete and immaturity and (umm... how should I put this? Oh I just won't put it.), in other words: a person whose ramblings are meaningless because they come from an unlearned mind. Once you learn th ways of the world, reality will cover you like a blanket, you will start to use quasi-conventional spelling (you are still allowed to write "cuz" and certain other words that I can't think of but if you'd like a list, I can try to compile it over time) as opposed to "Tiger Beat"/YM/TRL spelling, and umm... well you might go to India and get enlightened, but that's optional. > >Maybe you're mad because Alanis got more credit, and Liz came out before > >her, etc, > >>>Nah that's not it. > > But see..? if she didn't get any credit, and u never heard about her before, > then u couldn't say anything about her, because u wouldn't know who she is.. > > >Only Alan-ass didn't write alot of that stuff, and therein lies alot of > >the difference between an artist like Liz and Alan-ass. But not all the > >difference, or even the majority. Just alot. > No...see...ur VERY misinformed.. Alanis wrote ALL of that stuff..Maybe not > all the music, but she wrote all the lyrics, and to me the lyrics count the > most, because without lyrics that u can relate to, the album is pretty much > shit! You said it better than I could have ("the album is pretty much shit") I have to disagree, though, tha tlyrics can hold an album in spite of crappy music. It just don't work. Even if it did, "thank u india, thank u royalties, thank u vh1" hardly qualifies as meaningful and intelligent. Oh but I'm forgetting, she had that lovely song... One Hand in My Pocket, in which she just lists off a bunch of opposites... now those lyrics took alot of thought. As did "Ironic," in which Alan-ass redefines the word "ironic" to fit a bunch of situations that are merely sucky, but not conventioanlly ironic. > > >But I think ALan-ass did. She seems so pre-fab. > aha! She SEEMS! well maybe she seems it, but u don't have proof. If alanis > was prefabricated she'd be up there with the rest of the teenybopper crew > singers, and sell tons of stuff in stores, etc.. You fell for my bait... I knew you'd love that "seems" line. I knew you'd twist it 'round. I may not have proof that she's prefabricated (except for that someone else wrote her music and gave her that "angrier than thou" sound), but you do. "If alanis was prefab. she'd be up there with the rest of the teenybopper crew singers, and sell tons of stuff in stores, etc.." I don't know where you've been, but uhh... she DOES sell tons of records. > U don't see singers that r > prefabricated respecting great bands and singers that alanis likes, because > they can't recognize real art..she does. She likes it because she understands > their music.. You seem to know Alan-ass so well, I'm going to stop argueing with you. I'm glad you are in her head and know sh eunderstands what she's listening to, and I'm glad you know that she listens to "great bands and singers" (who qualifies for that label, anyway? isn't this whole debate happening because you think alan-ass belongs in that category and I don't? SO how do I know that she listens to anything worthwhile anyway?) I'm also glad you're hip to what the boy bands listen to, because there are too many of them fo rme to keep track of, butas long as someone else out there is doing it, I can just ask for the info instead of memorizing it. Opinionatedly yours, Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 02:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Subject: A list complaint for everyone Josh wrote: >To top off the fact that the >ending was given away and continued to be spoken about >even after I and many others asked for everyone to >stop, instead of receiving apologies in my inbox, I >received a couple of emails taunting me. I used to >look forward to reading the digest. I now scroll and >maybe read a post or two. Well, I'm sure this gives >those assholes more fodder, so flame away. Back to >the basement, looking for a new mailing list, This is horrible. It really bites..I can remember when this channel used to have a bit of class when it came to things like this. There was a time when people wouldn't even POST Liz Phair lyrics for fear of ruining a song for someone. The fact that people taunted this guy's email bites. I always figured Phair fans had a bit more class. I'm just damned glad the movie wasn't ruined for me - that was a pretty low thing to do though, I have to agree. Ruining movies, especially one like Blair WItch is worthy of a gutting. Or at least a scalping. I don't know..sorry to sound all scolding..it's not my channel..and i know jase does more than his best to keep it under control..but I am sure it goes without my saying that if we want to discuss something in DEPTH and in FULL DETAIL, and it involves perhaps SPOILING and ruining something for someone else..especially something non-Liz..we should keep it to private email. I can remember a time when i looked forward to reading digests too...now i lITERALLY just skim passed all the immature bullshit and get to the Liz content. And sad to say..there have been MANY lists that were just basically BORING talk about blair witch/alanis/personal weed experiences..all of which are immature..but man..comparing this list TODAY to the former 6'1 Digest..it seems we've had a lobotomy. oh well..sorry..just pointing out the digression. Which was once my favorite list, (and there is nothing wrong with being intelligently off topic) it has now become a sess pool of immaturity complete with name calling and pretentions, which is worthy of a quick skim through. SOrry to bitch. just missing the good ole days. It's no one's fault. It's just the times I guess. Sadly, Dan. (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) I'd rather stay here, with all the madmen, cuz I'm quite content, they're all as sane as me. -David Bowie. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 23:54:47 PDT From: "M.L. Magdalene" Subject: BOB >When the hell will Daria kiss Trent?? I dunno--but i think she should do it soon. Trent would be hot if he wasn't like..you know..animated... >I really don't think it gets any better than this, vanilla smile and >a >gorgeous strawberry kiss!! >-- Robert Smith [The Cure] YAY! Do you have any flippin idea about the new album as to when it's coming? >Maybe you're mad because Alanis got more credit, and Liz came out >before >her, etc, I'm still pretty pissed that she felt the need to run around naked. >kay so like M.L. Magdalene, I am the bitch you love to hate. The >OTHER >bitch you lov e to hate. :) Although I don't think most >people on this >list really disagree with my post, eh? Um..what? Are you trying to tel me you're a bigger bitch than ME?!=-) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:29:22 +0200 From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Bashing Nicole: > All immaturity aside, Alan-ass deserves to be bashed. This sentence does not make sense. If calling her Alan-ass is not immmature, then what is? I don't care about Alanis Morissette but what kind of universal law makes Liz Phair better than her? (This also goes for the Kurt Cobain or Britney Spears arguments that go on these days). In what way are you better than an Alanis fan and how would your opinion have more value than theirs? One of the aspects of maturity to me is to realize that there are opinons and tastes and one is not better than another, they are just different. And as Steve said, if you don't like someone, then don't listen to them instead of going around saying how bad they are. I'd like for once that someone explain to me how if makes them feel better to bash an artist? I'm serious, I have never understood this. Moe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:46:27 -0500 From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: and the loser is... just for reference, I'm 23, a college graduate, a several-month subscriber to the digest, and a fan of music, period. that said... here we go again. one week it's kurdt (yeah, that's how he spelled it on bleach), next week it's alanis (or should that be alan-ass, nicole?), and who will be next? it's your own personal choice if you feel you must attack artists (personally, musically, does it really matter?), but in the end, you're expending an awful lot of energy into blind hatred. does alanis annoy me? yeah, her voice gets on my nerves, but I think that she has a few songs where the lyrics are close to brilliant. will the backstreet boys (or britney spears or any of the others) be referred to in 20 years as a major influence on some new band? very doubtful. but I enjoy turning up the radio when the teeny-bopper music comes on. it's FUN music. it isn't meant to change your life. I would never give them critical acclaim, but why do so many people feel that it is so important to point that out? I guess there isn't always enough else to talk about on this list, so everyone likes to get hot and bothered over whether or not anyone who still listens to nirvana is "a loser stuck in the grunge era" to paraphrase. I'd love to list off all the music I like to listen to, because it pretty much includes everything under the sun, and guess what? I'd probably get flames on everything except for liz. or maybe the beatles. I wonder if people would attack elvis presley, because he wrote very little of his own music, he is now dead (drugs), most of the lyrics are cheesier than a backstreet boys song, and he was very much idolized by the "teeny-boppers" of his time. sounds bash-worthy to me, even if he is possibly the most famous artist the world over and countless artists today refer to him as an influence. but go ahead, continue to flame and I will continue to laugh at how ridiculous most of it gets to be. it's a "free list" after all. I nominate ricky martin and jennifer lopez for this weeks bash-a-thon, because how can they get credit for reviving latin music? santana is much more talented, and he doesn't receive enough credit or airplay. just because he's all old and stuff, and they are young and beautiful, it isn't fair. just my thoughts. jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:21:28 EDT From: AMCFLND1@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #245 In a message dated 8/23/99 1:20:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << Actually, I remember the whole ban of Sheryl Crow's 1996 album by Wal-Mart. Do you wanna know why they banned it? It's because she mentioned "Wal-Mart" in a song and didn't receive permission from the store to use their name. >> Also, it was the way she used it. "Watch our sisters watch our brothers watch our children as they kill each other w/ a gun they bought at walmart discount stores." That may not be exactly how it goes, but it's something like that. And then she played the song on Saturday Night Live. ~Sara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:18:49 -0400 From: "Henry, Gregory" Subject: Liz postcards I grabbed a bunch of Liz Phair postcards from a bar I was in over the weekend. They're the Calvin Klein postcards, with her reclining and pulling her t-shirt up a little. If anybody wants one, please send an sase to: Gregory Henry Lehman Brothers 3 World Financial Center, 17th Floor New York, NY 10285 Bye, bye. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:40:06 PDT From: "steve kisko" Subject: Alanis (I know, I know...) Steve wrote: >u dont like Alanis' music..well u don't have to listen to it. Turn it off! >She's not telling u that u have to listen to it..she's expressing herself >to >those who want to listen. If u don;t wanna listen, then don't! I think I fall in the "don't wanna listen" category. I don't actually HATE Alanis... I just choose not to listen, but I have in the past (she was kind of unavoidable a few years ago, you know... we DIDN'T have much of a choice), so I have a few things to say -- hopefully without starting an Alanis thread (oh boy). > >Maybe you're mad because Alanis got more credit, and Liz came out before > >her, etc, > >>>Nah that's not it. > >But see..? if she didn't get any credit, and u never heard about her >before, >then u couldn't say anything about her, because u wouldn't know who she >is.. There is a big difference between credit (credibility) and popularity. Alanis did not get more credit than Liz, she just sold more records. She's got popularity *without* credibility. Which is not the worst thing in the world, but just be aware of the difference. > >But I think ALan-ass did. She seems so pre-fab. >aha! She SEEMS! well maybe she seems it, but u don't have proof. If alanis >was prefabricated she'd be up there with the rest of the teenybopper crew >singers, and sell tons of stuff in stores, etc.. _Isn't_ she "up there"? _Doesn't_ she "sell tons of stuff"? I realize you're talking about quickie unauthorized biographies and posters and keychains and the like, but just because Alanis' 2nd record isn't selling as fast as _Jagged Little Pill_ doesn't mean that she's somehow gained credibility. Alanis' target audience isn't at the age where they'd be likely to go out & buy such merchandise, so that's why you don't see the same volume of Hanson/Backstreet Boys/Britney Spears merch featuring Alanis' likeness. That's all. U don't see singers that r >prefabricated respecting great bands and singers that alanis likes, because >they can't recognize real art..she does. She likes it because she >understands >their music.. So you're saying because Alanis respects certain artists (Liz?) who are generally held in high regard by the arbiters of good taste, it means she's not prefabricated? Hmph. Case closed! :) TMK, you are quickly becoming one of my heroes. Really. NP: Jen Trynin, _Gun Shy Trigger Happy_ ("But who am I? Okay, I resign.") "I got a feeling I'm gonna get a lot of grief..." -- Elvis Costello _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:53:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bodamer Subject: lyrics vs. music > .see...ur VERY misinformed.. Alanis wrote ALL of that > stuff..Maybe not all the music, but she wrote all the > lyrics, and to me the lyrics count the most, because > without lyrics that u can relate to, the album is > pretty much shit! I think you'll find a lot of people, including myself, who heartily disagree with this statement. I have much more respect for musicians who write their own music. This is one of the main reasons I have such high esteem for Liz. I think she excels at both writing music and composing lyrics. But what drew me in first was the music. I didn't really listen to the lyrics until after I had digested the albums for a while. z. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:52:43 EDT From: MLevine171@aol.com Subject: Re: Alanis (I know, I know...) In a message dated 08/23/1999 11:42:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, biglongcar77@hotmail.com writes: > I think I fall in the "don't wanna listen" category. I don't actually HATE > Alanis... I just choose not to listen, but I have in the past (she was kind > of unavoidable a few years ago, you know... we DIDN'T have much of a > choice), so I have a few things to say -- hopefully without starting an > Alanis thread (oh boy). but at least you're mature about it. I don't mind someone not relating to her, or liking her, but when I hate is when people bash other's tastes. and I find calling alanis "Alan-ass" disrespectful. I personally like Alanis, and it's not right to bash her, just because you don't like her (NICOLE!) steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:01:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Another recipe? Someone suggested to me of coming up with another Liz-influenced recipe. Sounds cool, even though I can't think of what to come up with. Soo...I changed the quizlet on my page for everyone to vote if they think it's a good idea for me to start thinking of another recipe. http://zap.to/spaceegg Guess that's it, except I could mention I had a really cool dream last nite where Liz was opening for Tom Petty and I met both of them before the show. Yeehaw. 10-13. Ten days till my b-day and 13 days till my Blondie concert! Katie ();) === ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "I believe you believe in the myth of yourself." -Luscious Jackson ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:53:28 PDT From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: The Spawning On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:52:43 EDT, MLevine171@aol.com wrote: "...but when I hate is when people bash other's tastes. and I find calling alanis "Alan-ass" disrespectful. I personally like Alanis, and it's not right to bash her, just because you don't like her (NICOLE!)" Uh, I'm partly to blame for this...I didn't come up with any of the monikers (which are great), but for those relatively new to the list: I unwittingly started a horrible Alanis-hate thread many months ago with one ill-placed sardonic remark in regard to her total nude appearance in her then-newest video, "Thank You." The backlash to that post was swift and severe, although some people wrote in to express their concurrence with my views. I really don't care what is written here about Alanis - and I must confess that I enjoy the posts laden with ridicule - but creating another Alanis thread is exactly what I think many of us would like to avoid...I'd just like to ask that if you're posting about Alanis, please do it with some degree of finality - as I'm trying to do here. TMK NP: Pearl Jam, _No Code_ Peut-être à la fin du siècle vous m'aimerez ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:45:38 PDT From: "Jenny St. Onge" Subject: meeting liz Hello, I used to be on this list a few years back, at least I think it was this list. But it used to be about Liz, you know, not just about how much Alanis sucks. I mean, I hate Alanis too, a lot, but I'd much rather hear about Liz. So, along those lines, here is my lovely Liz story. On Saturday, August 14, I went to Lilith Fair at Pine Knob in Clarkston, MI. It was my second time seeing Liz. It was really great, cause it was LIZ, you know! And although there wasn't much of a big crowd reaction, a few people had a really kick ass time. At concerts, you should stand up and get into it, at least that is how I feel. I guess none of the people there that day did, but whatever. My friend and I showed our Liz support as did two dudes over a few rows. Those guys ended up right behind us in line for the Liz autograph signing. That was so super-cool. I've wanted to meet Liz ever since I got into her music, which was about five years ago. After the first show I went to, she came outside, then got into a car and waved goodbye. I was really depressed. But I got my chance at Lilith Fair. I was the second person in line to meet her. And I was all like, in awe of her or something, cause I just couldn't say anything. So, anyway, she signed my Juvenalia CD, and I was just like, Thanks! and she said "You're welcome!" And she seemed all surprised by my having Juvenalia/ilia there, probably since all the Tower records was selling was EIG and wcse. And so, after I left her, I looked at my CD, and it said, "Hi-yah! Liz Phair" I was so totally excited, cause everyone else just got "Liz Phair" So then I started acting like a total retard, jumping around, and almost sorta crying. And saying stuff, like "I just met Liz Phair" "She wrote special stuff!" And it just recently occurred to me that I was right near her, and she probably heard me. Which, I've decided is okay, cause at least she knows I'm a big fan... So, that's my story... Yep.. So, rock on... Umm... Yeah. jenny ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:50:43 EDT From: AGsPackage@aol.com Subject: Need help locating song title The only lyrics I have are "I have heard that before" and the song has been called "If there's a GOD up in heaven". Im to tired to look through lyric sites so if any of you can tell me what song this is, I will appreciate it. Thanks, -Tim - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:30:26 -0400 From: "Henry, Gregory" Subject: Hurricane Cindy Hey, did you all know that there is a real Hurricane Cindy currently moving across the Atlantic? I think it's been downgraded to a tropical storm, though. Bye ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:55:23 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: MLevine171@aol.com Subject: Re: Alan-ass and other fun controversies I'm sorry but u just seem to have some issues to work out, because to put it "nicely," take that stick from out of your ass! I am just about to give up with u, because the comments u are making sound so ridiculous and immature. You are a very childish person, who just sounds like they want to fight. > It's called... shopping. Unless I lived on a farm, which I don't, and > provided for myself, I inevitably must shop. In many shops and public > places, there are PA systems which blast music. I have not the power to > turn off these sounds, nor the money for a pair of earplugs which are > powerful enough to stifle the noise. Nor do I feel like lugging around my > own headphones everywhere. Even if I did, I would have to turn up the > volume on my system enough to drown out the b ackground noise, and the > decibel levels required to do this are damaging to my hearing. Hence, > there are times when I am forced to listen to Alan-ass and other such > "performers." Ok..this just sounds to me like you're beginning to bullshit, just to not make an ass of yourself, which you're doing anyway..I go into stores all the time, and hardly EVER hear Alanis. Ok...but if u do, there's a thing u can do...COVER YOUR EARS. It's not very hard. U take one hand and put it over one ear, and the other hand and stick it over your other ear. Now that wasn't very hard was it? I didn't think so. Maybe it is for u though...or if u r REALLY having a hard time, go out and come back. I mean the most her songs play is 5 or 6 mins, so what's the big deal!? You're not the only one shopping. There are other people too, so stop being so selfish. Oh...for your VERY shallow comment about how using words like u on emails is immature. That's just ridiculous. Maybe when I'm typing an email, I like to type fast, and use informal language. I'm not writing a damn essay! I'm writing an email. One of the tons I write everyday. I don't have time to go through and analyze my typing. Who ever made these standards for writing anyway? I like to deviate. If I don't want to type "you" I will type "u" or for you are "UR", etc. I don't like to be forced down to have to write words for example, just because someone years back made that. That's what language is. That's why there are so many languages and forms of speaking. It's partly because people make languages, and differentiate them. I don't plan on making a language formed of my versions. All I'm saying is language isn't something that should be completely formed and shaped 100%. It's also much like an art. I like to be creative with writing. If I want to write U in emails, what's the big deal? >You said it better than I could have ("the album is pretty much >shit") I have to disagree, though, tha tlyrics can hold an album in spite >of crappy music. It just don't work. Even if it did, "thank u india, >thank u royalties, thank u vh1" hardly qualifies as meaningful and >intelligent. Oh but I'm forgetting, she had that lovely song... One Hand >in My Pocket, in which she just lists off a bunch of opposites... now >those lyrics took alot of thought. As did "Ironic," in which Alan-ass >redefines the word "ironic" to fit a bunch of situations that are merely >sucky, but not conventioanlly ironic. No..read clearly! I never said that her album was shit. I said that albums that have really bad lyrics, and just good music can't hold themselves. Alanis has both. Good lyrics and good music, but I said if she had bad lyrics, the album wouldn't be able to hold itself, but since her lyrics are great, even if as u say the music is bad, than the album would surely hold itself anyway. Ok..and your comments about her songs show me you ARE immature. > You said it better than I could have ("the album is pretty much >shit") I have to disagree, though, tha tlyrics can hold an album in spite >of crappy music. It just don't work. Even if it did, "thank u india, >thank u royalties, thank u vh1" hardly qualifies as meaningful and >intelligent. Oh but I'm forgetting, she had that lovely song... One Hand >in My Pocket, in which she just lists off a bunch of opposites... now >those lyrics took alot of thought. As did "Ironic," in which Alan-ass >redefines the word "ironic" to fit a bunch of situations that are merely >sucky, but not conventioanlly ironic. You interpret music like Liz's, and yet u can't intepret Alanis' lyrics. That seems very strange to me. "Hand In My pocket" isn't about opposites. It's about all sides of a personality, and being able to see that at the same time you're happy, u can be sad in a way. It's a song about being happy with all parts of your personality, and being confused with it sometimes, and learning to love it. I will admit for ironic that the lyrics aren't good for that one. I mean they are in a way, but I will give that to you, because she admits she was playing around with a song, and that song came out, and she didn't realize they weren't ironic, until after. Oh and I think "Thank U" is a brilliant song. It's a very metaphorical song. For example, "how bout them transparent dangling carrots?" It means all the things that are held before us that we constantly are in pursuit of, and want, that are supposed to bring happiness, but as we get close to them, or grasp them, we realize they are "transparent," they don't bring real happiness. >thou" sound), but you do. "If alanis was prefab. she'd be up there with >the rest of the teenybopper crew singers, and sell tons of stuff in >stores, etc.." I don't know where you've been, but uhh... she DOES sell >tons of records. I didn't mean selling records..I meant selling commercialized items in stores, like backstreet boy keychains, or nsync hats, or whatever the hell they have out there that they have mass produced. If Alanis was really in it for the money, she would be doing the same as all of them. True..maybe she didn't go indie like Liz, but she was broke in L.A., depressed, and needed to vent, and Maverick records bought her album. Some guy recently put some paintings that Alanis did for him on ebay a month or 2 ago. He said that back in 95, he was her fitness trainer, and he was getting her in shape to tour for her album, and she didn't have enough money to pay him, and felt very bad, and painted him 2 paintings, and a card. The guy ended up selling the paintings because now he's broke.. She didn't have anywhere CLOSE to enough money to start up her own independent label. I read in an interview, where she said she was about to release it on some independent label, but thought that they'd tag her as completely copying off of ani difranco or liz phair, and she said she wanted people to not pre-judge her, but then she thought she'd put it on their anyway, but by the time she was about to give it to an independent label, glenn ballard brought the demo tape to maverick records, guy oseary heard "perfect" on the album, and immediately fell in love with the album, put out "You Oughta Know" on the radio, and RIGHT after it played, people were ringing up the phone lines asking who it was. She once said "if I can get across to 1 person and sell 1 album, or get across to 1,000,000 albums and connect with them, I can't control that. No one can control that." A lot of the promotion that goes on is because of the label. She said that she doesn't care about the record sales. She puts out poems and polaroids on her website, and doesn't get money for that. You don't see commercial singers like Britney spears sticking poems she writes (because she doesn';t write her lyrics) on her website. Alanis just likes to connect and relate. I've stuck with her from the end of 95. It doesn't sound like a very long time, but I've seen her grow as an artist, and I have seen her interviews on videos I have from all over the world, enough to know what she really cares about. I have also read numerous biographies, and I happen to know a friend of hers, and my friends know her very well. She even knows them by name at her concerts, and they told me that she is one of the sweetest people they've ever met, and she's true to herself. I've met Jay from "Jay and Silent bob" (kevin smith) that's in the movie DOGMA coming out with her in it, and he also said she is true to herself and she is sweet. Everyone that knows her says the same thing. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:56:08 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Sarah M. Scott" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #244 looking for raymond....I need your address.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: she's a maneater... >I'm sorry but u just seem to have some issues to work out, because to >put it "nicely," take that stick from out of your ass! I am just about to >give up with u, because the comments u are making sound so ridiculous and >immature. >You are a very childish person, who just sounds like they want to fight. [cough cough]potcallingthekettleblack[cough cough] You know what, I'm not even goign to reply to your most recent post, because you're right about everything. All your points about Alan-ass and me are so well put, intelligible, and unmuddled, and obviously come from a very learned mind, and your speech is so eloquent that I know I'm dealing with a quite scholarly person, so I'm not going to reckon with you anymore . Plus it's a waste of my time. Fun at first, but gets old. Onto Liz content: I have just received an IM from someone who says they are a new fan of Liz (who discovered her on VH1 during that 100 greatest women thing or whatever), but this is what he/she says about what htey heard about Liz before they heard her for themselves: "i had heard of her before that, but they usually make her sound like a lilith-fair-wishy-washy-indigo-girl-feminist kind of person " I didn't know that! That's awful! Ugh I wouldn't listen to Liz if I had heard of her under that sort of description. No wonder people ar so reluctant to listen to her. Ick. Okay I'm going now. Ouch! Oh sorry, I just fell off the soapbox. Later, Nicole * * * * * * * * * * * * "Perfect is a fault, and fault lines change." -R.E.M. "Push me and I will resist/ This behavior's not unique" -Pearl Jam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:46:34 -0500 From: Kaufmann@IPFW.EDU (Kaufmann,Mike) Subject: original wcse Having just gotten my wcse sessions tape from the one and only ken lee (all hail ken!), I am struck by how much better liz's version of wcse is and how much better it would have served her than the one eventually released. I think capitol messed her up, and with the long hiatus she couldn't really fight for herself. But the whole order seems muchh more even and coherent--much better flow than the actual release. The sound is also much more open and lo-fi quality, even in the more "produced" numbers like what makes you happy. Maybe one day they'll put out this disc in a wcse special cut, like those dvds. All those little touches like liz's coughing on baby got going and the spoken/sung first line on Ride, just so much more like what people were expecting--and wanted. Damn their oily hides at capitol!!! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: raymond lew Subject: johnny may feel good but ray feels bad ok, i haven't spoken in a while...well, my computer was busted for a week or so and i've been kinda lazy as of late. anyways, tab for johnny feelgood is posted. sorry for being blunt. i'm in a shitty mood...unfortunately, liz isn't helping much. i'll probably feel better in the morning and punch myself for sending such a lame post. =[ ...ray **************************************************************************** "I'm a wreck, I'm obsessed, I'm insane. Isn't that what you want me to say?" --Liz Phair the writings on the wall >> www-scf.usc.edu/~rlew beginning to see the light >> www-scf.usc.edu/~rlew/liz_phair **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:41:08 -0400 From: siobha5@ibm.net Subject: daria >When the hell will Daria kiss Trent?? i know, right? trent is my dream man. he and daria are made for eachother. ~siobhan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:23:41 PDT From: "tarleton walmsley" Subject: regarding the supposed informer infatuated bitch I have really not bothered reading all that stuff written about Alanis. But I'll just give my opinion on the matter. She Sucks. Her forehead is too big. And I do not like the way she's always shaking her head around when she sings. As for her music, it lacks in quality. However, I did enjoy watching green slime being poured over her head while she pursued her acting career on Nickelodeon. I wonder why she hasn't been categorized with Britney Spears and the Mickey Mouse Club Gang yet as teens who try to act, can't, and therefore have to annoy the rest of the world with their crummy music just to make themselves happy with the fact they didn't make it big on their crummy television shows.Hmm, well. That being said, I'll move right along to the next topic. For those of you who enjoy the cure: the new issue of Jane magazine contains an article written by robert smith about his doc marten boots. Quite enjoyable. That's all for now. - -tarl _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #246 ************************************