From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #236 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, August 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 236 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Bliss ["M.L. Magdalene" ] the paperboy ["dana polachowski" ] liz label -- family guy -- Ebay bastards! ["Jaime" ] Liz tripped in Pittsburgh? [Katie Lynne ] Re: In the Company of Men [Emerald314@aol.com] saturday, saturday, saturday, saturday [Meow Grrl ] Re: jase what is going on here? [DiskoBoy23@aol.com] Cancellation [David Pittman ] Re: jase what is going on here? [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] WCSE Sessions CDs - where to get them [kenmlee@ix.netcom.com] Stratford-On-Nicole ["Nicole W." ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:43:45 PDT From: "M.L. Magdalene" Subject: Bliss |>>don't you remember why she makes them turn around??? >No, but does she like butter tarts??? I think this may have been the most ammusing thing ever sometimes.... Did everyone catch Tori on Letterman. It was good...except...i don't think Tori wanted to talk to Dave very much.. I can't believe that's all i have to say. Sometimes I'm Dreaming: M "When things get really empty for me, empty in my outer life, in my inner life, the music world, the songs just come across galaxies to find me." ((Tori Amos)) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:44:18 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: the paperboy >Twin Peaks references > too, and they've gotten me all excited too! Jason Morrise, here is another > hardcore TP fan. We'll have our own TP marathon one of these days, I > swear... GOD, I LOVE THAT SHOW!! i've forgotten so much of it though.... i can't believe it even made it to TV, you know? another of my very favorites of all time is a show that was running at the same time: "get a life." the one starring chris elliott as a 30-year-old paperboy. (remember "hansome boy modeling school"?) god, if anyone has any idea where i can get copies of that series, i would pay a million bucks, i swear.... sorry, no liz content; shameless... dp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:48:19 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: liz label -- family guy -- Ebay bastards! |>It's no wonder why Aimee Mann is now starting her own label to release her |>recordings. It seems to me that a lot of artists can do a much better job |>promoting themselves than the labels they are signed to. Well put, Jase. It's a wonder that more musicians are not starting their own labels. Seems to be the only way to get ahead and actually receive the money they deserve. Hopefully more artists will take the initiative, as Aimee Mann has, and take control of their careers. |>I agree, definitely. Very entertaining show. At first my roomates and I |>thought that they would run out of pop references just because of the |>enormous number of them that appear in each episode, but it hasn't |>happened yet, and we'll hope that it doesn't. I put this show in the same catagory as the simpsons. Funny as hell, and damn you miss some good jokes if you arent paying attention. I think 'Brian' the dog is my favorite. Watch that show stoned (as with the Norm show) and you are sure to laugh your ass off! |>And before you all start thinking I'm a bastard, I will try to post |>something with a little less negativity soon. I guess everyone knows by now |>what my pet peeves are, though: the sale of bootlegs and seeing artists get |>screwed over by their labels. The music fan in me just can't help but get |>pissed sometimes. :) |>Jase Sounds reasonable. These e-bay bastards need to be stopped. Cant people sit and enjoy life, instead of constantly trying to make a buck off someone else's idea... We also need to spread the word more... that if your a Liz fan and you want her music, and cant find girlysounds, etc. Just ask--- and you shall receive!! time for breakfast ~jaime* - - ------- - "I wont lie, then i can't deny, I did it all for the nookie..." --Limp Bizkit ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:25:58 -0400 From: "Wendy Alkins" Subject: Misc Stuff Three of the scariest/most disturbing movies I've seen are Seven, Boxing Helena, & Straw Dogs. But, then I'm not really into "Horror" flicks. But I've been thinking about the scariest movies I've seen for days now, since I read susy. Liz becoming more mainstream would be the kiss of death. Has anybody heard anything from or about Patti Rothberg(Between the 1 and the 9, 1995)? She's a great artist who put out 1 cd, which truly rocks, and hasn't been heard again. It just blows my mind that somebody this talented, who was able to get a cd made & distributed, hasn't been able to do anything else.She's also a BU alum, so I'm partial to her. But I think all you Liz Phans would love her. Thanks to those of you with LUNA info. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 06:49:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Liz tripped in Pittsburgh? Ohki...got the following from the FTE mailing list: "Liz Phair was the first act on the main stage and she was soooenergetic. She was wearing this really cute dress and jumping all around. She did Polyester Bride, the Divorce song and a couple new ones. I really likeher stuff. When she was about to get off the stage..she tripped over thewiring and almost fell..she then bowed to the audience :)" Not much else to say except I have a headache and feel like throwing up. Geez...I only had a sip of the stuff...not a whole entire a drink. Katie ();) NP: The Mamas and The Papas_Greatest_Hits === ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "I believe you believe in the myth of yourself." -Luscious Jackson ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 13:34:05 EDT From: Emerald314@aol.com Subject: Re: In the Company of Men I agree completely, M!! In the Company of Men is definitely one of the most unsettling, disturbing movies I have ever seen. The thing that made it so horrifying is that there were no witches or monsters or guys in masks with huge knives or anything like that...just the darkest parts of human nature. Freaky shit. ~Emily ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:20:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Meow Grrl Subject: saturday, saturday, saturday, saturday Warning: Longish post. Random topics. Near-nil Liz content. Scary movies … I was pretty scared by It, in fact. And Nightmare on Elm Street. Unfortunately, Blair Witch did not scare me, and I so hoped it would. Actually, I hear that Sixth Sense (“I see dead people,” says the kid to Bruce Willis) is pretty darn scary. LOVE the whole Blair Witch-Divorce song thing, Dan and sorry-I’ve-forgotten-who. Wish I’d thought of it myself. Funny stuff. Oh no, I mentioned Blair Witch twice in one post! I’m a big hypocrite! Well, as long as I’m here in the land of Hypocrisy, I’ll go all out. I went camping last weekend in the woods and was FINE. Until I hiked, that is. I’ve hiked some – not tons – and I was unaware that piles of rocks all around the summit was normal. The thing was, it was one of those double-peak mountains (hills?) … so when you go down, you actually have to go up again before you REALLY go down. So we got to the top, rested and ate, then went down. At every clearing there were piles of rocks all around … a little creepy to me. But then it got worse … we were going down, but then we had to go UP … then down again … then UP! … and piles of rocks were all over the place. It was a teeny bit trippy, at least in my nutty little head. (We’re going up again! There’s no way down! There’s another pile of rocks! Where’s the path? Why aren’t we going down? Oh no! TWO more piles of rocks! And one over there! And one over there!) To the person who wrote: “don't you remember why she makes them turn around???” Can you email me and explain this to me? When does she make them turn around? Re: Ben Lee … I first heard of Ben Lee circa 94 or so with the song “Pop Queen.” So catchy that was! “Well you’re real … PRETTY …” “Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. You’re my Pop Queen …” Wish I had a recording of this! Where can I get it? BTW, all you Morphine fans, I am sorry I didn’t post this the day I found out, but I live in Boston and heard about Mark Sandman’s death as soon as it happened. It didn’t occur to me that people from all over were Morphine fans, never mind on this list. I caught their show at the Middle East in Boston (small club)in April, and am SO glad I did now. Mark is a big-ass hero in these here parts. Oh no, I am just realizing that I sang “Flower” last night for a friend. Male. [just a friend] I was absolutely drunk, and he was less so. He knows Liz not at all. I belted the thing out. Oh, dear. Signature Liz song to expose people: I’d have to say 6’1”. (Even before I chose my cellphone number … it’s funny, all my non-Liz-listenin friends are like, “you’re crazy!” when I tell them the mneumonic for remembering my 6-1-5-2 cellphone number. But two days pass, and I say: “Do you remember my number?” And they roll their eyes and admit that, yes, in fact, they do, dammit.) Hurricane Cindy gushed: some of the coolest, most intelligent people I've ever known/met are on this list. It's obviously because of our appreciation of Liz Phair, and the wealth of knowledge and awesome discussions of her work here, but it's SO much more. It's a real community. my friend, I couldn’t agree more. I keep meaning to write regarding your nice words re: me and Dana P. You have no idea how much I appreciate that. It shows that some of what I write certainly does make people identify with me, and written words that don’t evoke reaction – IMHO -- are just like the tree that falls in the forest with no one around. Do any of you ever do this stupid thing I do? I take Liz songs and make up my own words, sometimes, for fun. Certain songs of hers are really lend themselves well to that, like Chopsticks or Polyester Bride, or Johnny Sunshine. Like on the way home from Providence in May, when we got locked out of the garage after the Liz show and almost had to spend the night in Providence: We took the car/ drove it to Providence/ went to see liz/ such an amazing show/ back to the garage/ we couldn’t get back in/ completely locked out/ stuck in another state. Or after a particularly gnarly male encounter: And I asked Nancy/ My lesbian friend/ If I should bother even trying to date men/ Goofy, fun stuff. Dana P, that bra-and-drinking story was hilarious. All hail smallish breasts! (at least we get to GO braless when we want!) Jase wrote: I guess everyone knows by now what my pet peeves are, though: the sale of bootlegs and seeing artists get screwed over by their labels. The music fan in me just can't help but get pissed sometimes. :) Jase, you’re opinionated, but you’re on the money. Even if I didn’t agree with you (which I do), I’d still read and consider your arguments, because they’re thought out and you present everything so well. I really respect your opinion. Wow, I can’t believe I am done writing. But I am. Why did I write so much? Perhaps b/c I am avoiding the one thing I have to do today, which is start packing to move … yuck … - -sandra NP: Alanis, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie. (YES, I like Alanis. A LOT, in fact. [I choose to forgive her for Ironic and other silly-ass songs.] AND I am a Liz phan. Who’da thought?) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 16:48:30 EDT From: DiskoBoy23@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #235 Someone wrote: > I love Liz more than anybody, but she has to do what she said > she would do. TOUR! Liz has been on TOUR! for a year. Liz has toured, but not for a year straight! She has played about 35 shows out of the 55 that were scheduled! That is not a year long tour! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:48:05 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: The touring thing -- again DiskoBoy23@aol.com wrote: >Liz has toured, but not for a year straight! She has played about 35 shows >out of the 55 that were scheduled! That is not a year long tour! No, she hasn't toured for a year straight -- and most bands don't. They do take time off here and there, they don't spend the entire stretch of time on the road. We need to remember that Liz has a husband and son now; maybe she likes having breaks now and then so she can spend time with them and actually watch her kid grow up. Forgive her for having a life outside of her music! And don't forget, Liz's time off from the road isn't always actually time off for her; last year, she was busy doing press for WCSE, and this year has been working on writing and recording new material. Also, for the record, Liz has played *a lot* more than 35 shows in the past year. Here's the breakdown: - - 16 dates on the 1998 Lilith Fair tour - - 18 shows on her own fall tour - - 2 shows sponsered by Boston radio stations (November 30 and December 1) - - 12 shows opening for Alanis earlier this year - - 17 dates on the college tour this spring - - 1 benefit show in New York - - another benefit at the Lounge Ax in March - - 7 shows on this year's Lilith tour by the time she finishes her dates next week By my count, that's 74 shows; more than double the number you stated. And if you want to count the taping of Sessions at West 54th as a show, that makes 75. Of the shows that were canceled, many of them were scheduled once, rescheduled, then finally canceled. I think a lot of people think of those dates as having been canceled twice, which would up the number of cancellations greatly, when really they were only outright canceled once, making the number much lower. Also, there were some dates that the Lilith website had Liz listed as playing last summer that she really wasn't scheduled to appear at. I don't think those can really be counted in the cancellation tally either, since that was a screw up on the Lilith organizers' behalf. And man, with all this bitching about Liz not doing enough touring, I have one thing to say: XTC. They haven't toured in 17 years and their fans don't spend so much time griping about it. Be glad that Liz's whole world isn't her music career. If that's all she had in her life, all she dealt with from day to day, she would miss out on a lot of the things that fuel her songs and wouldn't be writing the way she does. Personally, the last thing I want from Liz is an album of "life-on-the-road/it's-so-hard-to-be-famous" songs. Oh well, whatever, nevermind, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:58:00 EDT From: DiskoBoy23@aol.com Subject: Re: jase what is going on here? Before I start to rant I want everyone to know that I'm a huge Liz fan and love her more than any female artist, but let's get the facts straight! Jase you are CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jase since you know everything about the music business tell us all how Capitol should have worked the record more..... Would you have spent more money on videos that wouldn't get played anyway? Or would you spend more money on advertising a record that was not being played anywhere? or would you spend money supporting a tour that has been losing shows because Liz doesn't want to play them. Jase wrote: First of all, Liz did not cancel her tour three times. She did, however, cancel several dates at various times, but that was because they were her knowledge by her agent. #1 Liz did know about the shows her agent booked and if she didn't she would have found out before they went on sale, not a week before the show. Jase also wrote: Also, the notion that touring is going to bring in a lot of new fans is pretty much bullshit to some extent. Sure, it does generate some print, and in the case of opening for a more well-known artist or being on a tour like Lilith, it helps bring exposure to people who might not otherwise know her work, but on her own tours, she's pretty much just playing for her established fans. #2 Liz is doing 3 Lilith Fair shows not the tour #3 Touring does help a record sell more than you will ever know. When an artist tours you get the advertising from the promoter in papers, you can get radio programmers out to see Liz so they might play the record, you get people from record stores to see an artist they will help sell and support in their stores, you get the opportunity for fans to see and meet the artist which intern gets people talking about her (i.e. I met Liz Phair,I saw Liz Phair, Her new album is the best) Obviously all of Liz's fans didn't get to see her or buy the new record because she only sold 200,000 compared to 500,000 of the other two. When opening up for somebody established you are hitting a whole new audience, usually the audience that gets into the same style of music. That is why she decided to play Lilith fair last year. The outcome of that whole ordeal was that about 8% of the people there knew who she was and that it was a good idea for her to be there to promote herself as well as WCSE. Also, when you say that Liz is playing for her immediate fans you are correct in saying that most people there know her and have her music, but the whole idea is to probably sell out the first time around and then the next time she comes she could play in a bigger venue so more people can experience her and her brilliant music. Then those people will go and tell their friends. Jase also said Besides, lots of bands sell a lot of records without doing much touring. Case in point: Hole. _Celebrity Skin_ is nearing double platinum in sales, and they've played far fewer shows over the past year than Liz has. Also, there are artists who play a lot more shows than Liz does and still sell fewer records. Disko says that of course Hole sells 2,000,000 cds because #1 she was married to Kurt Cobain, #2 They have been touring for years and#3 most importantly RADIO & MTV! This works for established artists such as Hole and let's say Smashing Pumpkins. This does not work for non established artists such as LIZ PHAIR and BLUR. Also when I say established artist I mean that they are an American household name. Jase states" Most bands get more than one single, you look at artists who sell more, such as Garbage, Hole or Beck, they see three or four singles released off of each album. Disko states" Of course they do because the first one was successful! Why would a record company stop releasing them if they continue to be played? In the case of Liz however, Polyester Bride was not a radio smash by any means. What I was saying was that most bands that don't have success with their first single usually don't get a second chance these days. The case of Liz she did with Johnny Feelgood. Also singles that you see videos for and see import CD singles for are not always worked at radio. So when you say that Amiee Mann had 3 singles that doesn't mean they were all worked at radio. You also state that it is no wonder artists like Amiee Mann are starting their own record labels. Well, in a perfect world that would work, but here in America it hardly ever works because of the promotion issue. You need tons of money and a great promotions staff to get things rolling. If you have the best talent in the world it still will not sell unless you have an awesome staff that works for you doing promotions, sales, and marketing. LONG LIVE LIZ AND ALL HER MUSIC ! I HOPE ONE DAY SHE WILL BE AT THE TOP OF THE CHARTS! ......I'm done typing ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:35:54 -0500 From: David Pittman Subject: Cancellation Please stop sending this service to us. We no longer desire to be part of the mailing list. Thank you Dpittman@flash.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:03:15 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: jase what is going on here? At 05:58 PM 8/14/1999 EDT, DiskoBoy23@aol.com wrote: > Jase since you know everything about the music business tell us all how >Capitol should have worked the record more..... I don't know everything; just what I pick up from articles and books I read and from talking to artists and other people in the industry. Sorry for knowing more than the average music fan and actually feeling free to express an opinion or two. > Would you have spent more money on videos that wouldn't get played >anyway? Or would you spend more money on advertising a record that was not >being played anywhere? or would you spend money supporting a tour that has >been losing shows because Liz doesn't want to play them. First of all, there's no guarantee that other videos/singles may or may not have gotten played, and usually a percentage of the costs for a video and promotional costs come out of the artist's royalties anyway, so it's not like Capitol had that much to lose. And just because the record wasn't getting played anywhere doesn't mean that a print campaign would have been totally ineffective, given the praise the album received from many critics. It's not like they didn't have something to work with. Secondly, I wonder if maybe "Johnny Feelgood" was a bad choice as the second single. Everyone else, including myself, seems to feel that "What Makes You Happy" would have been a better choice. Why didn't Capitol see this? Also, "Johnny Feelgood" was given practically no push at radio, so it may as well not have even been released. After it was scheduled to be serviced to radio, I e-mailed a few stations to request it, only to be told by a couple of them that they didn't even receive promo copies of it to play.Yeah, that's pretty effective. Also, as has been stated many times, Liz does not receive tour support from Capitol. She makes enough on the road to cover all of the costs. Capitol wasn't spending money supporting her tour, so they can't bitch that much about Liz canceling shows. Besides, tour support is recoupable against royalties, so again, it really wouldn't be costing them anything if they were supporting a tour; it'd be Liz who pays for it in the long run. > #1 Liz did know about the shows her agent booked and if she didn't she >would have found out before they went on sale, not a week before the show. She didn't know about them WHEN they were booked, and that's the most important fact. As I said, they WERE booked without her knowledge, which other list members were able to find out and posted at those times. She was going to cancel those shows no matter what, and while it would have been better had she done it sooner, it was going to happen regardless. > #2 Liz is doing 3 Lilith Fair shows not the tour Get your facts straight. She's already played four, is playing one today, and has two left. And I never said she was doing the whole tour. Sorry if I wasn't entirely clear, but I thought that was already common knowledge. > #3 Touring does help a record sell more than you will ever know. When an >artist tours you get the advertising from the promoter in papers, you can get >radio programmers out to see Liz so they might play the record, you get >people from record stores to see an artist they will help sell and support in >their stores, you get the opportunity for fans to see and meet the artist >which intern gets people talking about her (i.e. I met Liz Phair,I saw Liz >Phair, Her new album is the best) Obviously all of Liz's fans didn't get to >see her or buy the new record because she only sold 200,000 compared to >500,000 of the other two. Yes, the new album hasn't sold nearly as many copies as the past ones, but one thing we need to remember is that they both took YEARS to reach that sales level. WCSE has only been out for one (and has sold more than 200,000, by the way -- the SoundScan figures four months ago indicated 207,000 and the album has surely sold more since then. Also, not all of Liz's sales would be through SoundScan outlets, so that's another factor to consider. Sorry if this comes across as nitpicking, but I'm just trying to paint a more realistic picture here). Another thing, I know a lot of people who own both _Exile_ and _Whip-Smart_, but they haven't bought and have no intentions to buy WCSE. With some, it's because in the four years between albums, their tastes changed and they're now into different things. With others, it's because WCSE is a much different record than the previous ones and they're just not interested in Liz's new "sound." C'est la vie. >When opening up for somebody established you are >hitting a whole new audience, usually the audience that gets into the same >style of music. That is why she decided to play Lilith fair last year. The >outcome of that whole ordeal was that about 8% of the people there knew who >she was and that it was a good idea for her to be there to promote herself as >well as > WCSE. Also, when you say that Liz is playing for her immediate fans you are >correct in saying that most people there know her and have her music, but the >whole idea is to probably sell out the first time around and then the next >time she comes she could play in a bigger venue so more people can experience >her and her brilliant music. Then those people will go and tell their friends. I already said that opening up for established artists does help in terms of exposure; both Lilith and the Alanis tour helped Liz out quite a bit for that. The problem with Liz's own touring though is that she seems fixated on playing the same venues over and over (for example, on her solo tour in the fall, she played mainly the same venues she played back in '95); she doesn't seem to want to move up and play in places that are bigger. Without her taking that next step, she's still just playing for her immediate fans. It's holding her back. > Disko says that of course Hole sells 2,000,000 cds because #1 she was >married to Kurt Cobain, #2 They have been touring for years and#3 most >importantly RADIO & MTV! This works for established artists such as Hole and >let's say Smashing Pumpkins. This does not work for non established artists >such as LIZ PHAIR and BLUR. Also when I say established artist I mean that >they are an American household name. Honestly, at this point, I think the fact that Courtney was married to Kurt has hindered her as much as it's helped her. A lot of the general public unfortunately still has the same perception of her they had five or more years ago, no matter what she does. Also, a great number of Kurt's fans flat-out hate Courtney; I doubt that's helped her career any. Hole haven't really been touring for years, when you really think about it. They've been pretty sporadic. Courtney pretty much put the band on hold when she first married Kurt, so between early '92 and when they finally hit the road to tour behind _Live Through This_, they didn't play out all that often. Sure, they did spend a year on the road touring for LTT, but then they didn't play any shows for three years. >Disko states" Of course they do because the first one was successful! Why >would a record company stop releasing them if they continue to be played? In >the case of Liz however, Polyester Bride was not a radio smash by any means. >What I was saying was that most bands that don't have success with their >first single usually don't get a second chance these days. The case of Liz >she did with Johnny Feelgood. Well, all of the bands I mentioned got second chances (or more), and their first attempts weren't exactly met with great success -- much less so than even "Polyester Bride." If Capitol aren't willing to give a little extra support to Liz now, I don't see things changing drastically for the next record either. They'll likely give up after just one or two singles again, if that. If they're going to have faith enough to sign Liz, why won't they demonstrate that faith by doing more to support her? If a label takes the leap to sign someone, they should do all they can to stand by that artist. It's like marriage; are you going to just throw in the towel and turn your attentions to someone else as soon as something goes wrong or do you make an effort to change things? Face it, Capitol are not so much interested in quality music as making money. And if they don't see those dollars rolling in immediately, they abandon promotion of the artist, in which case, they'll never see any rewards from them. Also, another thing they should realize about Liz is that the rewards may not be immediate, but any support of her will pay off in the future. Liz may not sell a lot of records all at once, but she sells consistently over a longer period of time. Her titles are strong catalog sellers. It does help, though, if they keep Liz's name out there. > Also singles that you see videos for and see import CD singles for are not >always worked at radio. So when you say that Amiee Mann had 3 singles that >doesn't mean they were all worked at radio. But they were. "Long Shot" at Modern Rock, "Choice in the Matter" at Triple-A, and "That's Just What You Are" the year before at both formats. As for import singles, I wasn't basing anything I wrote on them. When I said Jen Trynin had two songs released as singles, I was solely referring to radio. She didn't have any singles from _Gun Shy Trigger Happy_ in commercial release, import or otherwise. > You also state that it is no wonder artists like Amiee Mann are starting >their own record labels. Well, in a perfect world that would work, but here >in America it hardly ever works because of the promotion issue. You need tons >of money and a great promotions staff to get things rolling. If you have the >best talent in the world it still will not sell unless you have an awesome >staff that works for you doing promotions, sales, and marketing. Well, it looks like things will work out for Aimee. She just finished a successful string of live dates and has already sold out of copies of her new EP. She's also received quite a bit of favorable press lately, and there seems to be more public interest in her right now then in quite a while. According to the recent New York Times article on her, it seems like she will receive a lot of online promotion through an alliance with Liquid Audio. She's also going to be selling copies of her new CD through her official website, and I'm sure she'll find other ways to use the internet to her advantage in promoting her music. Also, word-of-mouth is going to help her out a lot, and her fans will no doubt rise to that challenge. And if you think about it, a great part of Liz's success is due to word-of-mouth, as well. Just look at all the fan conversion stories posted to this list! For some artists, the best option really is for them to start their own labels. All it takes is one look at Ani DiFranco to know that artists can make it work to their advantage. It may not be the easiest road to take, but for artists like Aimee, it's a much better path. On a major label, she's bound to slip through the cracks, as has been proven time and time again. Releasing her own music, if she sells just 70,000 copies of her new album, she'll make as much as if it sold 300,000 still signed to Interscope. Also, you don't always need a great promotions staff to get things rolling. Look at what happened for Sleater-Kinney at the time _Call the Doctor_ was released. Their success wasn't as much based on actual promotion of themselves as the growing buzz their music and shows were generating. > LONG LIVE LIZ AND ALL HER MUSIC ! > I HOPE ONE DAY SHE WILL BE AT THE TOP OF THE CHARTS! This is the one point I can definitely see eye-to-eye with you on. I really do want to see Liz do well, but I just don't know if it's entirely possible. Not even factoring in the questions of promotion or what label she's recording for, I just don't know if she has the mass appeal needed to obtain that level of success. There's an article from around the time that _Whip-Smart_ was released that sums up exactly what I mean better than I could hope to: Phair's eagerly awaited follow-up, Whip-Smart (Matador/Atlantic), arrived recently with loads of press hype proclaiming Phair the poet laureate of "women in rock." This sort of media overkill raises impossible expectations for Phair, and inevitably, cynicism, especially from those who would reduce her sensational rise to a few catchy melodies and titillating dirty talk. In truth, Phair is a long way from becoming everyone's cup of tea. Despite her talent for writing in engaging garage rock formats, her work does not cater to mainstream tastes. On Exile her free usage of the word "fuck" and references to herself as "cunt" and "blow-job queen" grabbed lots of attention, but such language is not likely to win favor with the "unhip" masses. More importantly, because Phair's lyrics cut so deeply into the tragic, absurd, and normal sexuality of our time, she is clearly uneasy listening. Although Liz can make her actual sound more accessible, as long as she writes the same kind of truths she has for most of her career -- not even getting into the language issue -- she's still going to be tough for some people to take. I do think that there are a lot of people out there who haven't heard Liz's music but would like it if they did, but at the same time, I just don't see her catching on with the masses in a major way. She could likely obtain the same size audience as Beck or Hole, but I don't know how much further beyond that her appeal would reach. In a perfect world, Liz's music would cross all barriers, but this is far from a perfect world. Just look at the Billboard album chart. ;) Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:04:22 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Partha Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #235 On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, support-system-digest wrote: > From: Jason Long > Subject: Re: RE : capitol isn't so bad > First of all, Liz did not cancel her tour three times. Ah, but she has cancelled three different dates (from three different tours) in Lawrence, Kansas. > She did, however, cancel several dates at various times, but that was > because they were booked without her knowledge by her agent. Maybe this happened a few times, but all three in Lawrence on three different tours? You would think she'd get a new agent. I may be pissy because I've looked forward to all three shows, bought my tickets, and had to go return them. I love Liz and all, but it's hard to be an apologist for her touring history. > Sure, she could have been a good sport and played those shows anyway, > but seeing how much work she put into promoting the album, who can > blame her for not wanting to spend even more time on the road, away > from her husband and son? If tickets are sold and people are looking forward to the show, can she be blamed? I know (well, I think) that you're only talking about the late-1998 shows which she cancelled, but, given her history of booking dates and then playing only a selected few, honestly, yeah, I'll blame her. Sorry for bringing this up in a discussion about the value of touring, but I feel like I still have to vent (and still have the right to vent). > Also, Capitol didn't even seem to give a damn about making already > impatient fans wait even longer when the album was already finished and > ready to be released. Ah, but there are still fans out there impatient to see her perform live. Fans who have bought tickets to shows who had them cancelled. Liz's performance (not on stage but in cancelling) has gotten to the point that no area booking agency is willing to sign her to a date because they believe that she'll just end up cancelling again. Not in Lawrence, not in Kansas City. Hey, does anybody want to dub me a VHS copy of one of her shows for a blank tape and postage? I really do want to see her live, somehow. > Done ranting (for now), Me, too, pat mazumdar@eagle.cc.ukans.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:59:13 -0500 (CDT) From: kenmlee@ix.netcom.com Subject: WCSE Sessions CDs - where to get them Hello, I've been reading a few posts recently asking how to acquire the WCSE Sessions CDs. Here's how: Send a contribution of $7 or more to: Ken Lee P.O. Box 1972 Union City, CA 94587-6972 And, in return, I will send you copies of the aforementioned CDs. If you have any further questions, email me privately. - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 23:30:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: Stratford-On-Nicole >"the four right chords can make me cry, > when i'm with you i feel like i could die, > and that would be all right. all right." > -stephan jenkins > one of the 50 most > beautiful people > in america*. >*statistic courtesy people magazine This is a joke, right? I mean you're trying to be funny by quoting this bloke? Okay so I didn't know that's what he was singing, and it's kind of sweet, but still... to quote him in your sig file, and then to umm... note that he's one of the 50 most beautiful people??? Okay here is why this post is entitled Stratford-On-Nicole: I am home now (very very unfortunately) from my awesome awesome (every- thing is getting doubly accentuated) trip. Well I flew into Atlanta, and then from Atlanta home. My ticket read that I was in seat 27 E. "27 E? that's almost 27 D!" I thought to myself. When I got to my seat, a man was in the window seat. I sat in the aisle, and thought "well if I'm in 27 E, I wonder what seat he's in." [aside: i'm so used to the british keyboard that I keep reaching for the wrong buttons!! I WANNA GO BACK TO LONDON!!] I looked at the thing above me, and the other seat # was 27 D!!! And he was behind the wing! And when we were flying into Louisville, the sun was setting to the west of the plane, and the cabin was filled with an unearlthly glow. We have no lake, but a river, but it didn't turn the sky into blue- green smoke. I couldn't see the plan of the city, and the earth *kind of* looked like a poorly assembled electrical ball, but what is an electrical ball anyway? A disco ball? Or just any ball that is electrical? Anyway, I was so excited about this Liz moment, and couldn't wait to report it to the support-system. but when I was walking off the plane, I noticed something. That son of a bitch was in my seat!!! THE WINDOW SEAT WAS 27 E!!!! he stole my fucking seat! even worse was that he wasn't even supposed to be in row 27. he was obviously very dense. Well, I guess I was in 27 D, though. So that's cool. Anyway, how does it feel to be back on American soil? Well, American soil kind of blows compared with European soil. American soil breeds rednecks and trailer trash. Later, Nicole P.S. excuse me if this email is aesthetically messy. I typed it in Notepad and pasted it, and misjudged somet of the margins. but I can't type it in telnet here cuz it goes super slow and irritating. ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #236 ************************************