From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #231 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, August 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 231 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Bounced message [Jason Long ] Woodstock [tommyk7@excite.com] scary films, woodstock ["Sally Mae" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #230 ["Michael Worrell" ] explanations and reactions ["Morrise, Jason" ] Liz touring? coolio [Katie Lynne ] Re: immi ["father, I killed my monkey" ] happy happy joy joy [Meow Grrl ] orange, blue, green and pink... ["Jaime" ] Some replies [Jason Long ] TMK ??? ["Jaime" ] Lilith Fair Webcast! [Katie Lynne ] Luna [Jason Long ] Market Monkeys [palik@ix.netcom.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 02:41:48 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Brian P. Falk" Subject: re: craigs post hi list pals! craig wrote: >Since everyone is complaining so much about The Blair Witch Project, I >thought this would be fun. What is everyone's top 5 movies that have >freaked them out the most. They may not have made you scared, but >we're very unsettling to you. i really like this idea for a thread, but i gotta say, my favorite disturbing movies are not supernatural or slasher, but like, real-life disturbing. the scenarios and characters in these films stood me up and punched me in the gut: 5. failsafe (the cold war was awful for our parents. and henry fonda was the shit) 4. mean streets/raging bull/taxi driver (if you've seen'em all you know why they are lumped together. lou reed sang: here's to the movies marty made about new york. those frank and brutal movies that were so brilliant...) 3. full metal jacket ("PRIVATE PYLE!!..." and how lucky were also that we didn't have to deal with 'nam. sometimes you have to remember to be thankful.) 2. the vanishing (imagine that's you lighting the lighter in that final scene. and he LOVED that girl. jesus christ, that was awful.) 1. the cook, the thief, his wife and her lover ("MR. SPICA!!!..." please, someone must have seen this besides me. your worst high school bully fully grown. times ten. also, pan-and-scan filmmaking is just so brilliant.) even though it's pure hollywood, you might also include "saving private ryan," cause it really hurt. and if you had a hard time with the social structure in your school, there's "welcome to the dollhouse." anyway, i hope someone understands. to me, what makes a great disturbing movie is a swirl of real-life emotion, not a slasher/ghost/monster. but that's just me. i gotta lust for life. no matter what happens, good or bad, it's always so great(katie?). hence, my love for liz lyrics: she takes real human feelings, even disturbing ones, and turns them into great art. that's the best. and i think that why you're reading this. hope you noticed, brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:18:39 PDT From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: Woodstock Has anyone seen "Behind The Music" on the Mamas and the Papas? I still like them! When I was like 13 or so I saw "If You Can Believe Your Eyes And Ears" in my parents' record collection and I listened to it...it was probably the first (and only) time I thought my parents were cool...in a silly, foolish kind of way. A very good article entitled "The Arson Is Blowin' In The Wind: Why Woodstock '99 Devolved Into a Frat-Style Free-for-All" was in Sunday's Washington Post. There are some interesting quotes by the musicians, including Sheryl Crow, who said it was "...the most disconcerting audience and worst performing experience I've ever had." The article is too long to transcribe here, but the link is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1999-08/08/058l-080899-idx.html (pssst...Liz is mentioned) TMK NP: PJ Harvey, _4-Track Demos_ P.S. MrE - _Neverwhere_ is awesome! Peut-être à la fin du siècle vous m'aimerez ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 05:53:45 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: scary films, woodstock >They may not have made you scared, but >we're very unsettling to you. Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #230 A bit ago, I ranted: >|> I may not have 'gotten' this film, but it's hard to be >|>scared by stupid people who forget basic rules of outdoor survival and >|>direction. You've got a compass and a brain; there's no excuse for getting >|>lost. =P >|>Michael Worrell Jaime gracefully replied: > Michael Worrell-- Maybe you dont have have a compass, but you have a >brain... and I will admit that when the bwp 3 kept getting lost (AFTER >WALKING SOUTH ALL DAY) I didnt notice it for awhile... but it doesnt take a >rocket scientist, (or a liz phan -ha-) to notice that every time they spent >the night, it was in the same place... I noticed more than once that they >slept in the area with those hanging rock gardens. > They werent using the compass wrong... they werent lost, Michael... The >woods were haunted. I think you wasted your $7.50 and perhaps you need to >see it sober. > And no, this isnt the ending to the movie, or anything anyone should cry >about, so its okay... Hmm....good point. I thought it was something else, but to discuss it might be considered spoilers, and I don't wanna do that. I'll spoil one thing, though: I only paid six bucks. Perhaps if I hadn't been so irate from having to wait half an hour past the advertised start time, I would have come away with a better opinion. Also, if some long-haired asshole in front of me hadn't kept making noises and screaming out during certain sequences, (and requiring a strident STFU from me). Annnyways...to direct this towards some ECP content, Don'tcha think that 'The Divorce Song' would have been perfect for this movie's soundtrack? You've got Mikey "It's also true that I lost the map" Williams, Josh Leonard, who might as well be boxed up and buried in the ground, and then hrrm...can't think of anything snappy and supposedly witty to tie into Heather Leonard. Oh well. Michael NP: "Hymn to Red October", Basil Poledouris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:52:11 -0500 From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: explanations and reactions sorry, no liz content here. >>speaking of m l magdelene ... that is the most beautiful name i have >>everheard!>>>I'd like to second that one. and she had it long before >>>sarah mclachlan came along. >Um...what? I hate to spell it out, but I guess maybe I was too vague...lilith. as in lilith fair. and yeah, I know lilith is a very old name with a very old story, so we can just pretend I never made my comment, except the one about agreeing that you have a beautiful name. >What is everyone's top 5 movies that have freaked them out the most. >They may not have made you scared, but we're very unsettling to you. 1. lost highway (the pasty-faced guy and the confusing dream sequences did it for me) 2. jacob's ladder (what the hell is reality here?) 3. event horizon (lame dialogue/acting, but still, the scene's of hell and the suicidal wife freaked me out) 4. twin peaks (I know it's a t.v. show, but still, bob is one of the freakiest villains ever, and the town is filled with wacky people, so you're already on edge) 5. the blair witch project (because anyone who has spent the night in the woods or even just walked alone down a dirt road in pitch black from the trees overhead knows what I'm talking about) >remember that episode when blair dated the captain of the debating team >and jo wanted to elope with her boyfriend because her mom was shacking >up and toadie and natalie both thought they were pregnant even though >they had only recently been dating each other and mrs. garrett got caught >banging george clooney and mike was still in the corner truly a twisted sense of humor. I like it. but it wasn't mike in the corner, it was the inbred banjo kid from deliverance... > >i'm scared to close my eyes, i'm scared to open them, because i have a >confession to make....... damn, I found this entirely too amusing! and it didn't spoil the movie either. jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 08:24:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Liz touring? coolio >And could this digest please >stop talking about Blair Witch Project? I'm on a >fucking Liz Phairdigest, >I'd like to see some discussion on her. Ahhh...Liz Phair rocks! Not that she'd ever come to FL on the next tour. Could be wrong of course. Oh well, for some reason, I keep thinking of St. Augustine. Love this place, especially the fort. Well, gotta finish up a bunch of stuff and head out to copy a bunch of BWP articles. My fave is the one on Heather. "People want to be scared silly." Sykes dammit! Dog farted again! P-U! Katie ();) === ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "I think music is the universal language of the world." -Gloria Estefan ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:01:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "father, I killed my monkey" Subject: Re: immi >>god?.......are you there? are you there are you there?0 >>NP: imogen Heap (sample it) immi rocks my world. um that's all i have to say:) steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:08:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Meow Grrl Subject: happy happy joy joy I've managed to only skim the last few digests, but I know that we were talking about *really* good songs that are actually *happy*. Did anyone happen to mention, from our very own Liz, SUPERNOVA? That is, in essence, a love letter. A cheese-free happy-joy love song. And one of the best I've heard. Seriously, what guy wouldn't like having that song written about them? For that matter, Flower ... damn, that's a love letter too isn't it? Just a little more nasty and dark and sensual and in-your-face. I love it love it love it sung live. Whenever I hear live Liz doing Flower (and not the Shank Hall 88 rpm version), I still get, as Owen Meany would say, THE SHIVERS. ooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh. btw, katiebrown and jason long, I can't make the movie on Thursday about Boston women musicians, b/c CAKE is playing a free show at the Hatch Shell! not something to pass up, unfortunately! and oh yeah ... if anyone was curious ... he called. - -sandra- NP: Liz, live in Portland, ME ... and she just finished Flower, that damn song that makes me crazy. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:53:43 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: orange, blue, green and pink... *I hate to say it... but they die in the end. All of them.* Hi newcomers and fairly newcomers to Support-System... we used to abbreviate it ss... but we are now very pc and we prefer SuSy or susy or ssd... and now sometimes bwp-susy. People here are very friendly, unless you offend them and they are usually good tempered as long as you dont piss them off. Nice bunch of Liz phans (fans) though. Want to know anything about Liz or any one of her songs ? You have hit one Liz Phair-whirlpool of knowledge. The first time I ever asked anything about 'girlysounds' a few years back... About six people answered me by private email and a few more responded in the next list. I was impressed. I remained a subscriber for about a year... then I moved and got an apt and finally got the internet hooked up-- Again I subscribed. WHY? Why do I put up with this list and the constant bickering (that I expect and love) about various topics-- usually not about Liz!! Its so frustrating, but in the same respect I have never learned more about my idol, my girl, my fantasy lover, my rockin guitar bitch~ Liz Phair. And that is why I put up with susy. Besides that, I like the Blair Witch project, and i like the fact that everyone is posting about it. I think it will be a huge classic and I wish they wouldnt spoil it with 'the-blair-witch-project-2 -- Josh's revenge--' or the tv series they have in the making -- the real world bunch are sent to the woods where the film was made and are forced to live there for 3 months. HA-ha... hey everyone, make sure you see bwp... bwp and liz ~jaime* ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ "Always know sometimes think its me But you know I know when its a dream I think I know, I mean, oh yes, but its all wrong, That is I think I disagree..." ~J.Lennon -- Strawberry Fields Forever ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:33:56 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Some replies Phew! So good to have the list back up and running again! nic wrote: >hey guys, i am pretty new to the list and i havent posted on it yet Welcome to the list! > I have liked Liz for a really long time and last year i was fortunate to >see her at Lilith Fair when it came to Buffalo. my god, i loved it. It was >my first time seeing her in concert and i was in the 8th row. I was the only >person that had aclue pretty much to who she was there, and i had a sign. I was at this show as well and it was great, although after having been a fan for so long, I do wish that my first time seeing her would have been in a smaller venue where more of the crowd was familiar with her, but I've since had two amazing Liz concert experiences, so I really can't complain. It just would have been even better had more people known who she was. I would have been just a few rows behind you at the show (I don't recall exactly and I can't find my ticket stub, but I think I was in the fourteenth row or so), and there was another list member and a friend of his who would have been a few rows in front of you. Although there may not have been a lot of Liz fans at Lilith that day, there were at least a few of us. In fact, one of the coolest parts of the night was the fact that there were two guys a couple of rows ahead of me who were both wearing Liz t-shirts (one from the '95 solo electric tour, one homemade). In between performers, I went up and talked to them, and eventually Steve Kisko and his friend came over and joined us. We were very happy to find that these guys were as big of fans as we were, to the point of being familiar with many of Liz's more obscure songs. We told them about the list, I gave one of the guys my e-mail address, and he joined a few days later. Steve also took a lot of pictures at the show, including a bunch on my camera, which I've been meaning to get scanned. Once I (finally) get around to it, I'll post them on the mailing list website so people can check them out. They're not the greatest as none of them are really close-up, but they're still Liz and worth a look. Liz's set was great that night, although the band has gotten even better over time. One of the things I remember most is when Liz broke a string during 6'1" because she was playing so aggressively. David wrote: >I've enjoyed reading everybody's posts over the last few days, >although as a newbie I'd like more Liz content, but that's how these things >go, I guess. Usually there is more Liz content on the list than at the moment, but there's not many Liz-related things happening right now. Apart from a few Lilith Fair dates, she's not really touring, the promotional push for WCSE seems to be over, and the next album won't likely be out for a while yet. Stick around, though, and you'll find quite a bit of discussion on Liz and her work. Also, this list isn't strictly on-topic. It's more like a community where all the members do share a common interest in Liz's music, but also feel free to discuss other things they enjoy as well. A great number of people from the list have met at shows or various gatherings, so you'll find that gives the list a more personal feel in some ways -- it's not as anonymous since many people know each other, and we all feel more comfortable in discussing a wider range of things apart from Liz's music. A great many of us have similar tastes in music and movies, and we're always discovering more things we have in common. Feel free to join in wherever you're most comfortable -- with the Liz-related discussions or any of the off-topic threads. >Night of the Living Dead (original, of course), >The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and The Blair Witch Project. Maybe I just have >a jones for gritty, no-budget horror flicks, but I loved this movie. But I >also loved Evil Dead I and II, so what do I know? I too love all of these films, apart from the Blair Witch Project, which I haven't had a chance to see yet, but hopefully will soon. I've just been too busy between work and getting ready to move, but will probably try to catch it next weekend. As for the Evil Dead films, while they're both great, I do have to say that I like Army of Darkness almost as much, even though it's not really scary at all, but rather incredibly hilarious. Another film that I like a lot that could be described the same way is Elvira, Mistress of the Dark. Sure, it's no masterpiece, but it's a lot of fun and sometimes that's all you need. I do love horror and horror-inspired movies in general, both the good and the cheesy, B-movie variety. Moe wrote: >I'm a little late so maybe someone commented on this but the >Rolling Stones sang it under the name "Star Star" on the album >"Goat's Head Soup" released in 1973 and it was also on their >live album "Love You Live" recorded in Paris in 1976. I was only familiar with the song from a couple of live boots I have and I didn't remember ever seeing "Starfucker" listed as a track on any of the albums. I did know that Joan Jett had wanted to release her version under the title "Starfucker," but instead had to issue it as "Star, Star," but didn't realize that the Stones had released it as such themselves. I'd always heard that _Goats Head Soup_ was one of the Stones' inferior albums, so I never bothered getting a copy of it. I now might break down and buy it at some point, although there's a lot of other CDs I'd like to get first. Clint wrote: >BTW: Sheryl Crow is my favorite artist, and I hear a lot of people that like >Liz like Sheryl as well. Hope this is vise-versa. There are quite a few Sheryl Crow fans on the list, and you'll find her name comes up often here. It makes sense to me that there would be some crossover in their audiences, since they both seem to be inspired by a lot of the same classic rock and both have taken part in the Lilith Fair tours. As for me, I can't say that I was much of a Sheryl fan initially, but I think a lot of that was due to the hoopla surrounding her first album when it first started to take off. I just found for a while there was so much overexposure and no matter where I'd go, I'd always hear the singles from the album, which kind of killed it for me. I wasn't really inclined to check her work out further until her second album had been out a while and I heard it at a friend's place and found myself really enjoying it. I now own all three albums, but for me, the second one is still the best. Bill in CT wrote: >Jason I need help. I seem to have been transposed onto a Blair Witch Project >list. Could you fix this. Well, I could try, but I don't think I'd be too popular with some list members afterwards. I actually don't mind the discussion of the film that much, although like several others who hadn't already seen it, I'm a little less enthused to do so now. >Batchelor #2 is just a beatiful, gorgeous >album/CD. A little sad with titles like Calling it Quits, The Fall of the >Worlds Great Optimist(Aimee?), and Nothing is Good Enough though. Think she >might be talking to us? I can't get the song Red Vines out of my head. I'm really glad to hear that the CD is so good. A few of the Mannlisters who have picked up copies at the recent shows have been raving about it as well, so I really can't wait to hear it, being a longtime Mann fan. Another member of this list has graciously offered to pick me up a copy, since I unfortunately won't be able to see Aimee on this tour (thanks again, Nora. You rule!). Since I know of a few Elvis Costello fans on the list, I thought I'd mention that "The Fall of the World's Great Optimist" is a song that Aimee wrote with him years ago, but that neither has recorded until now. They've written one other song together, "(The Other End of the) Telescope," which Aimee recorded first, on the final 'Til Tuesday album in 1988. Elvis released his own version in 1996 on his album _All This Useless Beauty_. >I also told her there were alot of Liz fans that also love Aimee. Aimee is a pretty big Liz fan herself, actually. While doing press for _I'm With Stupid_ a few years ago, she had a lot of good things to say about _Exile in Guyville_, and in her press bio said that both Liz and Beck had influenced the songs she had written for the album. >Lilith gets cut on alot but I was thinking about what would be a >dream Lilith lineup. Performers that either played or Sarah wanted. (This to >sneak Sleater-Kinney in)? Putting in no particular order: Sarah(of course >I'd put her on the Village Stage), Liz Phair(duh), Sleater-Kinney, Jen >Trynin, Kristen Hersh(or better Throwing Muses!), Sheryl Crow, Luscious >Jackson, Lucinda Williams of course Aimee Mann. This is a pretty good line-up, in my opinion. I think that most people who like Aimee Mann and Liz would enjoy Jen Trynin's music a lot, and Sleater-Kinney are one of the best live bands I've ever seen. I'd perhaps add Hole to the line-up (even though they were scheduled to play this year and canceled), and maybe also the Spinanes, who are supposed to be great live. Jaime wrote: >NP: the glory boot No offense to Jaime by any means, but this bootleg is rather pointless, in my opinion. There are two different sources for the 4/25/95 NYC show, and this boot uses the inferior one, but unfortunately the more common of the two. This is one of the few Liz shows that was bootlegged on video, but unfortunately the sound on it could be better, it's missing the entire first song ("6'1") and the first part of the second ("Never Said"). This show has also circulated on cassettes that have used this video as the source, and the Glory CD bootleg uses it as well (although rather than starting "Never Said" halfway through, skips it entirely). The other source for that show is audio only, but the tape contains all of the songs and the sound is much better, even though it's still shaky on a couple of tracks. With most shows, the difference between one source and another may not be as greatly important, but this show is certainly one of the more essential ones, as it's the only one where Liz played "You Have No Idea" and only one of three where she played "I'll Get You High." I'm just really disappointed that the commercial bootleggers, in their quest to make a fast buck, couldn't have at least located the better of the two source tapes and used it instead. If they're going to take advantage of the fans, they can at least offer up a more worthwhile product. Tim wrote: >I'm certain Liz doesn't have e-mail. In relation to chapter 1 of this post >: Liz is not internet-minded. On Sessions @ 54th Street(thanks again >Roberta), when Liz asks the audience how tey got 'to be there', someone >(Jason surely) shouts they got tickets through e-mail ; Liz says : >E-mail...that's where I'm missing out the whole 21st century... I'm >totally not there. That wasn't me, unfortunately. As much as I'd have liked to have been at that taping (and actually considered going), I wasn't able to. When I did meet her at MuchMusic though, I told her about the list, and while she did seem curious, she didn't seem all that familiar with the internet or e-mail. At that point, it would have been a safe bet to say she didn't have either, but maybe it's something she's developed an interest in since then or maybe will in the future. >I do know that Brad Wood has e-mail though. Because he wrote to the list >once (either this one or to Guyville before SS' birth). Sadly, I haven't >kept the address. Yes, Brad was a member of this list last year, in both forms (6'1" and then Support System, when we switched over). He actually posted a few times to each, although I guess maybe initially some people didn't realize that it was actually him. Unfortunately, he's not on the list now as he no longer has time for it, but perhaps he'll rejoin at some point when he's not as busy. As for your list determining when Liz wrote each of her songs, I think it's a great idea. I've already spotted a couple I might be able to help out on, but I'll save that for another time. Off to watch the Hole spotlight on MuchMusic (yes!), Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:08:35 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: TMK ??? Hey... TMK... Please email me. I deleted your address by mistake! I need help. Thanks! ~jaime* - - - ------------------------------- HempStock 1999!!! August 19, 20, 21, 22 Harry Brown's Farm Rt. 43, Starks, Maine email me for directions, details, or if you'd like to meet up there! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:38:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Lilith Fair Webcast! Hey hey hey. Got this from the FTE mailing list. Thought of spreading the word if anyone's interested. The final four mainstage performers are Sarah, Sheryl, Indigo Girls and The Pretenders. > > **Webcast from Columbus > > As a special treat for the visitors to > lilithfair.com, we are pleased to > announce that we will be webcasting the final four > mainstage performances > from Columbus, OH on Tuesday. (August 10) > > The webcast is scheduled to begin at 6:30PM Eastern > with The Pretenders and > go until the group finale finishes at approximately > 11:00PM Eastern. > > Make sure you download QuickTime 4.0 in order to > view the webcast! See you > tomorrow! ** Katie ();) NP: Beth Orton_Central Reservation === ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "I think music is the universal language of the world." -Gloria Estefan ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 00:08:53 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Luna Just found this blurb on the Addicted to Noise website and thought some of you might be interested. Luna Find New Label Months after they were dropped by Elektra Records, rockers Luna have signed with Jericho Records, a Sire Records imprint, and will release their album The Days of Our Nights Oct. 26, according to label manager Mike Pantino. The band originally recorded the 12-track album for Elektra. The album's first single will be "Dear Diary." [Sun., Aug 8, 1999 3:04 AM EDT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:11:50 -0500 From: palik@ix.netcom.com Subject: Market Monkeys Hello Sailor question: "...with their little fontanelles." What is a "Fontanelle" ? Don ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #231 ************************************