From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #215 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, July 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 215 Today's Subjects: ----------------- She's a Sad Tomato... ["M.L. Magdalene" ] It's Alive ["Jeffrey Kern" ] Old vs. New; Bad vs. Good; Happy vs. Pissed Off [Michael Carapella ] [none] ["JeNnY sAyLeR" ] feminism/greetings Amelia ["Sally Mae" ] liz in abercrombie and fitch [siobha5@ibm.net] Re: liz songs on po5 [AMCFLND1@aol.com] WCSE demos revisited ["jw" ] Typical males [Paradise79@aol.com] taping liz in august [AGsPackage@aol.com] Re: freak of nature (??)/blair witch [Miz Phair ] Re: freak of nature (??) [Fox913@aol.com] Pretenders, NIN, Blair Witch, WCSE, EIG [Jason Long ] Blair Witch - Milwaukee ["Joseph H. Weber" ] its 12:12 am friday night and i'm loaded....... ["Jaime" Subject: She's a Sad Tomato... >anyway, po5 has always seemed to throw in an offbeat artist once in a > >while, though I can't seem to remember any of them now. They played Ani once.... >>meaning that i know what a dillon's is, M. YAY!!! >"a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" awhile back, and >said it >was by U2. i'm pretty sure that it was originally said by >gloria steinem. Perhaps but U2 said it too on that song about trying to throw your arms around the world... >I thought it was visually a fantastic film. The gritty element, the >moods reflected in the lighting, the camera work...it just looked >great! I well in all fairness give it that i suppose.... >and how did she get drunk so quick at the party? I was wondering about that too--the conclusion i came to was that she had to starve herself to do all those nude scenes and there-fore found herself getting drunk VERY easily? >That scene with the guys hassling the good Dr. mistaking him as gay>> >Also >the scene where the hooker's roomate tells Dr. Trickle that his >little >friend has...hold on kids....AIDS!!!! was just ridiculous. And what exactly was the fucking point? At all? As Usual.... M "I forgive you for the rest Even the whole time i was tested Nobody does it better Baby you're the best" - -Cat Power _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:24:17 -0400 From: "Jeffrey Kern" Subject: It's Alive MrE advised: >>DarkSide oftheMoon >>Talk about a bad weekend >...might i suggest some, uh...morrissey... >inevitably >Momus Well, I threatened to play some Morrissey and my hard drive started working again! So for now please send your e-mails once again to: hilofer@hotmail.com Liz is climbing on the hottest female poll. Last time I checked she was like 20th. Keep voting! http://www.freevote.com/booth/rollergirl We need a point of contact for Liz so we can get her all the cool ideas that we come up with. She has got to have an e-mail address. Somebody do some digging. Surely we must have at least one brainiac who can cipher up an address for us. How about the girl who was in partial contact with Dr. Phair? Hurricane Cindy....did you fall off the earth or what? And once again - Thanks for the help Jase!!! DarkSide oftheMoon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:07:48 -0700 From: Michael Carapella Subject: Old vs. New; Bad vs. Good; Happy vs. Pissed Off Here's my post in response to all the recent talk regarding EIG vs. WCSE and first Liz vs. best Liz. The one area that has not been explored is the emotional content of Liz's music. When Liz recorded EIG she was one disturbed, pissed off, confused and miserable person. You can tell by: a. the lyrics b. her interviews from that time frame and other's accounts, and c. her current interviews There is no denying the power in much of the music on EIG but it is almost exclusively negative power. This is not unique to Liz. Mr. Cobain ushered in a whole era of this. It's no secret that the best music is born of powerful emotions and unfortunately most musicians write when they're hurt, angry, depressed etc. Think about how many great songs with great lyrics express happiness. You might find a few that express quiet contentment, but I think you'll realize that most of the artists mentioned on this list stick pretty close to the darker side of human emotions. Now think about WCSE. Not as powerful? Doesn't hit the raw nerve? Well, Liz is obviously MUCH HAPPIER NOW. Not that her life is perfect ("one night is lovely the next is brutal") but there's a good chunk of happy shit on this CD: "Yes I'm winning, spinning, I feel energy..." "It feels good, like relieving a headache" "I feel the sun on my back, I smell the earth in my skin, I see the sky above me like a full recovery" Her biggest problem seems to be headaches, which she used as a title, the above-referenced "like relieving a headache" and "Louis said he's got a headache" (yeh I know that's old but it still was a recurring theme). Also, Liz is trying really hard to write great songs now as she's expressed when talking about WCSE. Many of the songs on EIG were never intended for anyone, or an extremely small audience at best. For those that thrive on the genuine real deal, it doesn't get any more real than that. I heard WCSE first and I still like it best. I can relate to the good and bad emotions portrayed and I just like hearing an artist give everything they've got. In EIG, I hear alot of pain and not alot of effort in making it sound good. That's strictly my perspective and I know many would disagree, but having been involved in the creation of music all of my life, that's how I see it. I've heard more than my share of demo tapes and for those that dig the lo-fi sound, check out emerging artist demos and you'll find plenty. What you won't find as much of is the songwriting and sheer talent of Liz Phair. I would actually be interested in hearing anyone's top five list of songs with a positive message. Mine will reveal a very dated collection, but here's what comes to mind: 1. Feeling Stronger Every Day - Chicago (I'm already struggling) 2. Big Tall Man - LP 3. God Only Knows, Wouldn't It Be Nice - The Beach Boys 4. Hey, Jealousy - The Gin Blossoms (well it might not be all that positive, but is sure feels good). and, (c'mon think, think, think, think there must be a Beatles song here...) 5. Here Comes the Sun - The Beatles (shew) I don't know that any of these songs would qualify as a "great" lyric, but there you have it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 04:54:16 EDT From: Biggerd000@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #214 Danaldj@aol.com im the ignorant one man yr right typical male is not all there is to life as you said but that is obvious and is no way what i meant i feel really mad about this. i was just sick of feelin like i had to hide it when i felt a woman was sexxy like im a pervert for enjoying lookin at a girls body. you dont know me i put up this little thing of rage and yoiu totally put me down thats really cool of you (note:the sarcasm) man if oyu knew me you would eat those words cant i feel anger about things no matter how stupid they are to you . oh and all those stimulating guys that supposedly hang out with you and get some as you put it you think they date you cause they are gay no it is obvious that they were attracted to you at first for some reason or another it bugs me how some people are so lame and phoney god you act like i am a scumbag for being human im rammblin on now with all the alcohol flowin so sorry if alot of this dont make sense but i guess it doesnt matter what i type danaldj wants to attack this is out to danaldj@aol.com stay perfect ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:18:48 EDT From: SnwbdBetty@aol.com Subject: wcse sessoions yep i''ll admit to the only reason i ever joined this mailing list is to find the girly sounds sessions and the wcse sessions....oh where oh where can i ever find them? import section? black market man in a dark scary alley? with lots and lots of cash ? if anyone could help me it would be sooooo geatly appreciated....i don't want anyone to burn and send...i just want to know where i can locate it in real life (speaking of real life has anyone noticed that exile is much harder to find now....) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:26:21 -0500 From: "JeNnY sAyLeR" Subject: liz-phair.com email Hey all. I'm coming out of lurking status to let you all know that liz-phair.com is back up with a whole new design and lots of stuff like mp3's for download. There is still a lot of work to be done on it, but its getting there. ALso I would like to know if any of you would be interested in getting liz-phair.com email, so you could have a yourname@liz-phair.com email addy. Its a FREE SERVICE. I have thought about signing up for this, but I wanted to make sure that people would be interested, so if you are, you can either come by my site and fill out the poll or email me at jennifer.a.sayler@vanderbilt.edu Thanks jenny *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ * Cool, Tall, Vulnerable, and Luscious - http://www.liz-phair.com Vampyr - A Buffy the Vampire Slayer Page http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/vampyr.htm *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:27:09 -0500 From: "JeNnY sAyLeR" Subject: [none] ps, the poll is in the info section! *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ * Cool, Tall, Vulnerable, and Luscious - http://www.liz-phair.com Vampyr - A Buffy the Vampire Slayer Page http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/vampyr.htm *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 05:30:55 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: feminism/greetings Amelia >Yes because you know all females well enough to know that none of us could >possibly have any redeeming qualities except for our bodies...you probably >call girls like me feminists..but i'd rather just have you call me a cunt...< What's wrong with being called a feminist? I'm a feminist and damn proud of it too!! I don't know how I missed this comment you are replying to but whoever wrote that original comment.....grrrrrr Hello Amelia! I'm 16 too and my first exposure to Liz was also Polyester Bride and then Johnny Feelgood. >btw, someone used the quote "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a >bicycle" awhile back, and said it was by U2. i'm pretty sure that it was >originally said by gloria steinem.< Right on sista! You people probably don't want to know this but I would like to say that I'm making a statement to my school by not going to my formal (prom-US) tomorrow night (sat) for feminist + non-conformity reasons!! Byebye......Sally "You thought I was a little girl You thought I was a little mouse You thought you would take me by surprise Now I'm here burning down your house!" Garbage- Not my Idea *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:59:02 -0400 From: siobha5@ibm.net Subject: liz in abercrombie and fitch i refuse to go into abercrombie and fitch, however one of my friends loves the store. he was shopping the other day and they were playing what makes you happy. i was very excited. i work at the limited and i keep waiting for liz to show up on those mixed tapes they send us 'cause usually there is pretty good music on them, obscure stuff. hey sean o'brien, did you receive those cdr's i sent you? ~siobhan NP: transmissions from the satellite heart -- the flaming lips ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:18:30 EDT From: AMCFLND1@aol.com Subject: Re: liz songs on po5 <> I also remember hearing Baby Got Going at one point . .. but maybe that was on a different show. They do play great artists on po5 though! Not only did they have Liz, they played Leah Andreone's Tighten It Up towards the end of the season. Sara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:35:05 -0400 From: "jw" Subject: WCSE demos revisited been listening to the WCSE demos (thanks again, Ken) and thinking that it shows a really interesting kind of trajectory, from the really punky kind of album Liz was apparently originally thinking of making, with "I'm Like That" "Bars of the Bed", "Blood Keeper," the grungier versions of most of the songs that ended up on the album and, my personal favorite, "Tell Me You Like Me." Then, somehow, she gradually moved toward more of a folkish pop album, with tracks like "Go On Ahead" and "Uncle Alvarez" which probably wouldn't have fit nearly as well on the earlier version (though they're probably my two favorites on the final version). Of course, thirty years ago, she would have released BOTH albums. Given the way the record bidnis works these days, though, that didn't happen and an important chapter in Liz's development, as well as a bunch of great songs, are left to the world of bootlegs. God, it sounds like I'm making a speech. I'll stop right now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:58:31 EDT From: Paradise79@aol.com Subject: Typical males Biggerd000@aol wrote: <> Then Dana wrote: < So why would we be lonely if all the "typical males" were to one day vanish?>> First, let me say, go Dana. :-) I haven't read these blasted digests in over a month and I finally get to read one and I see this. I, for one, wouldn't be lonely at all. Actually, I think I'd have a party 'cause all those "typical" guys tend to be the annoying ones. Anyone care to start a club? Chicks against typical guys. CATG. I'll be the president. At least I want to be the Press Secretary. We could have bumper stickers and everything. And now I tackle the problems with the use of the word "typical". "Typical" to what region? What age is this ellusive typical male? This also gets you into problems with stereotyping. What are you asuming is typical and why? Is it exclusive to race? Age? Sexual preference? Culture? Do they happen to have the word "WOW" anywhere on their car? Is it a combination of all of them? Is it limitted only to this region of the world? of the country? of your state? your community? Regardless, I'll assume your typical guy is the stereotype of 20-30-something men and then I'll tell you that I wouldn't be lonely 'cause my husband and my friends are all far from that stereo-type. So, if all the "typical" men were to vanish, I'd still be quite content w/my husband, my chick friends, and my male friends, oh, and my cats and my furby. Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. God I missed this list, Hyphen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:31:08 EDT From: AGsPackage@aol.com Subject: taping liz in august ill be taping the detroit show. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:35:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: Re: freak of nature (??)/blair witch > so i saw this movie today called "the winslow boy." (snip) > so, what do you call this thing called "jeremy > northam"? like, a complete > genetic miracle? what? what? what's going on here? > whose idea was this? is > he for real?? my god....! > He is! And he's very good in An Ideal Husband, also out now and in Emma, with Gwyn Paltrow. Also a movie on TV I saw a couple weeks ago in which he plays a schizophrenic (sorry, don't remember the title), Mimic with Mira Sorvino and the Net with Sandra Bullock. My day's viewing today was of The Blair Witch Project! Loved it, loved it! Infinity!!!! Did anyone who saw it notice that Heather sounds like Liz? Esp. when you don't see her, since she's behind the camera much of the time. I felt like Liz was talking! That ending! I could discuss forever.... Email privately if you want to, I don't wanna ruin anyone's movie fun. For those who haven't seen it, don't expect a full-blown horror movie. It's more creepy! My favorite film in months!!!! paige- === I'm obsessed, I'm a wreck, I'm insane Isn't that what you want me to say? Don't you need to feel my blood on the tracks today?" - --Liz Phair _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:43:38 EDT From: Fox913@aol.com Subject: Re: freak of nature (??) In a message dated 7/22/99 11:19:40 PM, you wrote: <> I couldn't resist responding to this. First, the Winslow Boy is a really good movie. I really enjoyed it and I thought it brought up some interesting ideas. And now for my main purpose in writing this. I'm so glad to have found someone else who appreciates the wonder that is Jeremy Northam:) I have totally loved him ever since he was in Emma. He is actually one of the reasons I wanted to see The Winslow Boy. Aside from the fact that I think he is incredibly sexy, he's also a great actor. I love that he can say more with one look than most actors can with a whole monologue. Well, I will stop myself now, although I could go on and on... Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:00:26 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Pretenders, NIN, Blair Witch, WCSE, EIG I haven't had much time to post lately, but just wanted to comment on a few things. First of all, thanks to Vasant for posting the Pretenders review. I think I probably will end up buying the album now. My only concern was the fact that their last few albums have been pretty inconsistent, as you stated, so it's good to know that this one's a little better. My next musical purchase, though, will be a new copy of Michael Penn's _Resigned_, since my copy mysteriously disappeared at work earlier this week. I'd ordered a copy from my favorite record store, and they had told me it would be in yesterday, but no such luck. Never one to leave a record store without purchasing anything, I ended up buying the new Nine Inch Nails single (I know it's not actually out until next Tuesday, but since I know the owner of the store, they usually sell me new releases before the street dates). Now, I've not been a fan of NIN in the past, but I have to admit being rather curious about this single and the upcoming album after reading and hearing so rumors about both. Whenever an artist or band takes so long between albums, it does lead to a lot of speculation: Has the artist has lost their muse? Will the new material be subpar or labored to death? Has the artist experienced a great deal of musical growth and will be releasing a landmark album? Anyway, until I hear the entire album, I'll reserve judgment, but I must say, both "The Day the World Went Away" and "Starfuckers, Inc" are pretty darn cool. I'm glad to hear that the Blair Witch Project seems to be living up to the hype. I really want to see it, but it likely won't be playing anywhere near me until the film is in wide release. The first time I read anything about the film was in March. I spent a couple of days visiting a then-crush of mine after I got back from my trip to Chicago for Liz's show at the Lounge Ax. While there, I remember reading an issue of Premiere, probably the most recent one at that time, and in a column about one film festival or another, there had been a few mentions of the film, and it had been given high praise. I remember thinking that it did sound particularly intriguing and I made a mental note to check it out once released, but until it started getting mentioned on the list, I had completely forgotten about it. Given the recent thread about the differences between EIG and WCSE and my own post on the subject a week ago, I decided to "reassess" the album, and took it along with me in my discman last Friday night when I went on a long walk, born out of restlessness and boredom. It was like listening to the album with a fresh set of ears, since I admittedly haven't played it much in a while, favoring the WCSE Sessions CDs. The album still doesn't feel very intimate at times, but I did forget how much I really do enjoy much of it. It just seems to happen, though, that everytime I go back to the demos and some of the songs that didn't make the album, they feel like they have a little more magic to them. I'll probably post a little more on this subject once I figure out what exactly it is that I feel got lost in the transition between the demos and early sessions and the final album. For now, though, what I plan to do as soon as I have the time to do so is make myself a tape of all of my favorite WCSE and session material, using the versions I like best of each song. Also, I remember a long while back, there had been a few mentions of "Help Me, Mary," in which the lyrics were almost always misquoted as "I've lost my home to your thieves." Now, while it does sound like that in full stereo, if you turn the balance all the way to the right speaker, you'll be able to hear Liz's vocal track much more clearly -- something I discovered a while back while dealing with a lousy pair of headphones and just remembered earlier. Anyway, the line is simply "I've lost my home to thieves," albeit slightly slurred. For the record, everyone should try listening to Liz's work with Brad Wood while isolating either the left or right channels some time -- you do notice a few new sonic details and it enables you to fully appreciate Brad's mixing job, which is complete genius. If anyone has tapes of any of Liz's Lilith shows from earlier in the month and would like to trade, please e-mail me. I'd really like to hear the new songs she's been performing. One last thing, not to single anyone out, but it's generally a good idea to wait until you're sober to post to the list. It does wonders for coherency. ;) Cheers, Jase NP: Jen Trynin, _Gun Shy Trigger Happy_ (No matter how many times I hear "Everything," the "If you want to know, *I* know -- you've been holding out to let go" part still gets me. Total brilliance.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:43:44 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Weber" Subject: Blair Witch - Milwaukee I have heard that Blair Witch will be opening in Milwaukee towards the end or the beginning of next month. This may just be rumor mill unfortunately because I don't know which theatre. If it is true I'm thinking most likely Downer or the Oriental. You might want to give them a call to check on this. Wish I could be more help. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:12:35 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: its 12:12 am friday night and i'm loaded....... Support System!!!! Hello! Drunk off my ass and i have to tell a story... i was driving home on rt2 and flying along... the tape was over, so my friend amanda went o flip the tape over and i said 'lets listen to the radio' and i fliped through,,, and heard 'supernova' so of course i stopped. i was like 'what station is this?' amanda had no clue... turns out 2 days later it was wcyy... but anyway it was cool, because we were smoking a bowl and i was impressed hearing liz on the radio... thats my story... after that i got home and was looking at the mail... got my Mirabella in the mail and they had a lilith story... beth orton, chrissy hynde... BUT NO FUKIN LIZ!... I was pissed... but now I'm okay... cant wait for new liz !!!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! later! ~jaime* ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ "Always know sometimes think its me But you know I know when its a dream I think I know, I mean, oh yes, but its all wrong, That is I think I disagree..." ~J.Lennon -- Strawberry Fields Forever ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #215 ************************************