From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #207 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, July 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 207 Today's Subjects: ----------------- breakfast of champions [MrE ] WCSE ["Sally Mae" ] (no subject) [Exile217@aol.com] swinging London ["Chipko Arnold" ] Blair Witch & converting fans [Katie Lynne ] Old fans [moe@lac2.gulliver.fr] ugggghhhh [Tiffany M Wilson ] lilith fair....oooooooooooooo sweet lilith fair.... ["May Queen" ] oops....lilith fair July 14th Shoreline ["May Queen" ] violent posting...you will now recieve an email beating... ["Jaime" ] Liz Phair - The Gorge/George, WA 7-9-99 [AGsPackage@aol.com] WCSE Sessions [morg hart ] morrissey sings for girls, nate's family is fun, gwar docu [Danaldj@aol.c] blair witch project [raymond lew ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 23:46:43 -0700 From: MrE Subject: breakfast of champions >Yes! and throw a few votes in for Jennifer Aniston too, >Gawd what a beautiful woman ...hence the reason for the tatt on my left arm...michelle pfeiffer on the right...no logical explanation as to the assorted others... the acid test...did massive quantities as a younger child than i am now. did massive quantities as a younger child than i am now. not a problem. did massive quantities as a younger child than i am now. did problem quantities as not a child younger than now i am... lacking in liz feeling a bit Momus - -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A busted ship? A busted ship and I'm strapped in here? I had a great spot picked out out there!" Steve Bucsemi ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:31:48 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: WCSE Re: all those stuff about WCSE, this reminds me about what Courtney said in an interview in Australia about Celebrity Skin. She said that with each new album, Hole are moving on from their last album, like "U2, REM and the great bands we look up to". And, yeah I become a liz phan through WCSE, it was the first time I had ever heard her and since buying that I have gotten EIG and are planning to get WS soon *so many cds to buy, so little time and $* I'm still kinda getting into EIG but I don't have a distinct fav album, just favourite songs from these albums and the songs from WS I have heard on a bootleg kindly supplied by Chris (thankyou very very much for that Chris!). This voting for Liz thing, I have done it on 2 days and might do it now and sorry, but I find myself voting more for Courtney and Melissa Auf Der Maur (more her than Courtney-I think she's the prettiest out of Courtney, Liz and herself, sorry but I do and she's also the furthest down)as they are way lower than Liz and I like them a lot too! *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 04:42:53 EDT From: Exile217@aol.com Subject: (no subject) >>But I still love those sandwitches that come in the triangle containers. I think >>america should have those. Mmmmm. actually we do have those. try any gas station/convenience store. in fact i think i ate one on the way to chicago to see liz. i have an amazing memory for useless info. liz b. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:00:10 PDT From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: swinging London To all our visiting colonials i can only say that it isn't always as quiet as this. There is a good gig tomorrow (friday 16th) it's Jason Falkner (ex Jellyfish) at the Embassy rooms. Next week there's damien Jurado at the 12 bar club on the 21st. It's always worth checking out the smaller venues and seeing an unknown for a few quid. As for other stuff to do here, search me. Living here you just take it all for granted. Sitting on Primrose Hill at sundown is good, as is admiring the view from Waterloo Bridge. The Sir John Soanes museum is good as are most museums in the Capital. I'm not much good on clubs and nightlife. Time Out magazine is good for listings, even if my ex might be in it next week. As i don't exist in her world anymore i guess i won't get a thanks or anything (it's a long story). Love is nothing. Sorry, off to mope and cry now. GLR played "Turning Japanese" on Sat, so if you want to hear more Liz i suggest calling on 0171 224 2000 between 2 & 6 on Saturday as that's the show that seems to play her the most. GLR is on 94.9fm. "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:27:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Blair Witch & converting fans What's cool about the Blair Witch Project movie is it was filmed here in Orlando and UCF students did the producing and filming. That's the kind of ravings I've been getting in my town. Not that I care to know they budgeted it with a credit card. Can't wait to see it this weekend! Feeling happy to know I've turned some Sheryl Crow fans into Liz. Caused quite a stir on the mailing list and everyone is eager to know what's she like. I'm even into making them a few tapes. Ahhh...the life. Katie ();) NP: Delerium_Karma === ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ All apologies don't apologize. Explain It To Me, you shall hear my heartbeat. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:45:28 +0200 From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Old fans Nathan: >i was just wondering why some liz fans are so hooked on he older liz such as >EIG. I am in that category of fan. I don't think there is much to explain: when I listen to EIG, I enjoy it a lot and when I listen to WCSE, I don't enjoy it as much. I could talk about the destructured EIG songs and unconventional chords and guitar parts as opposed to the more conventional WCSE songs but to sum it up, I just like the songs on EIG (and WS) much more, period. Why do some people want to explain everything? Music is an art and there's nothing to explain, you like it or not. >so let's just face the reality that liz's voice and style are >changing. Deal with it. Why would I have to deal with it? *shrug* The way I'll deal with it is that I'll buy her next album and if I don't like it more than WCSE, that will probably be it. Having listened to music for more than 20 years, I have learned to not expect to love an artist forever. I'm thankful that there is a period of time during which I love what an artist does but if they change their style and I don't like it anymore so be it. Just like a love story. Moe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:04:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: ugggghhhh Hi, I'm sick, and have been away from work (where I check my email). So, I'm a little behind. *I love Morrisey. I prefer the Smiths, but Vauxhall and I is a great album. *The Boredoms-Japanese noise-punk band. Singer could have dreads. I think I saw a picture of him a few years back with some. *Micheal? (the guy who got stuck in SF)-I am so jealous you saw the Magnetic Fields!!!! I love them. I think Stephen Merritt is a genius. His lyrics, his music, his voice, his song titles. Fantasmic (combo of orgasmic and fantasic, get it? Tiff "And I may be young, but I still know the things you put down can rise from below. And I can hardly believe you would lay this at my door, 'cause I have heard that song before." -Liz Phair "All you ever wanted was someone to take care of you. All you're ever losing is a little mascara..." -Paul Westerberg (The Replacements) "This is why events unnerve me, they find it all a different story. Notice whom for wheels are turning, turn again and turn towards this time... Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown. Heaven knows, it's got to be this time..." -Ian Curtis (Joy Division) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:13:40 GMT From: "May Queen" Subject: lilith fair....oooooooooooooo sweet lilith fair.... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:44:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: old liz vs new liz two post in one day? the rapture must be near. Anyway, I've written on this subject before, but I can say it again and not lose my conviction. I prefer old liz. It's not that I don't want her to change; I, too, get bored if an artist never evolves. But I don't want an artist to evolve and lose one of the things that really drew me to her. See, the first two things that struck me about Liz was how different she sounded. She had these weird guitar parts that didn't sound like anything else around. But on wcse, most of the guitar parts were fairly standard. I also loved that liz's early songs were written for less instruments. Probably because she started out on four track. But most of her newer songs were written for a band to play. I loved the raw production. Not because hi-fi means selling out, but because it fit with her voice and her music. Some people just sound better lo-fi. That's why I was so shocked at the difference in production value between the wcse sessions and the actual album. I loved the demos, but the album left me cold. Go on ahead being the glaring exception. There is nothing wrong with making things a little more radio friendly. Whip-smart was a lot more radio friendly, but it was still a fantastic album. Songs like Nashville, Dogs of La, etc have more production and more instrumentation, but they never lose that essential liz quality. But wcse doesn't have the same power, the same soul that her other albums had. Plus, the "electronica" touches pissed me off. Liz has never ridden the band wagon, but suddenly she jumped on. Electronica only works (in my humble opinion) for techno and the variants and synth pop kind of stuff. It doesn't help indie. But i guess the biggest problem with wcse (for me anyway) is that it sounds more like everything else out there. Feel free to flame me. Tiff "You better look, look to your left, passengers, You better look, look to your right. 'Cause I'm gonna take this plane out in less than five minutes And this, this is your very last sight." -Liz Phair "Forgot my one line So I just said what I felt." -Paul Westerberg (The Replacements) "It takes years to find the nerve To be apart from what you've done To find the truth inside yourself And not depend on anyone." -New Order "I dedicate this song to you for all the desperate things you made me do I'd like to beat you black and blue for all the agony you have put me through." -The Magnetic Fields ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:46:35 GMT From: "May Queen" Subject: oops....lilith fair July 14th Shoreline there is nothing to express how i feel today, after talking to most of the people i idolize day in and out and in again. Let's see... i got there a little late and missed the Shelley Doty X-Tet (locals) but i heard them while standing in the mile long line. I ran over to the B Stage (they combined the village and second stages which was much more convenient) and i got a place sitting down right in front. I saw tekla who is absolutely amazing (who i am listening to right now) and was about 3 ft away from all who performed. her songs and voice are so eccentric. she is from sweden i think. then cibo matto was supposed to come on. i left my place temperarile and walked around the corner and basically ran right into them. i almost went into cardiac arrest but still chatted with them for about 45 sec b4 they went on. they were so cute just jumping up and down and running around all cute like. right when sean lennon came on stage someone pointed and yalled "Julian" and he got piissssseeedddddd. he gave the drunken woman who yelled it (and was also falling on me) a point of the finger and the evil eye. cute. then they were doing autographs so i ran over and talked some more with them, though Yuka (the sampler/keyboardist) was much sweeter and talkative to me. then i got the autographs of everyone except the drummer timo ellis. then sean sang acapella in front of me for a couple minutes. then the crowd cleared out and i saw beth orton and i gave a come hither look and a culr of my finger and she came over (plus i yelled beth really load which startled her and made her glance around suspiciously). i asked her if she would do autographs after her 20 min set and she said yes, but she didn't. she played mostly songs from trailer park and about 3 from CRes. Then the adorable murmers came on. and they had a bunch of disasters with sound for the first 2 min. they were sssooooo cute. i waited about 15 min (while luscious jackson was playing) and they came and grabbed peoples things and signed them but when Heather saw me she just randomely started talking to me. i was not nervous at all like with CM the first time. i got their sigs and ran to see LJ just as bonnie raitt took the stage with them for a new song. Mya was suprisingly good too and she tap danced very well. Sandra was not that brutal. Crissy Hynde was more brutal (joke wise). sheryl crow was good and BR came on again for ITMYHappy. i didn't care to watch 6 pence. i didn't care to get their autographs either. dunno why =). sarah was good and BR came on yet again to sing angel (lyrics in hand). then i left after talking to the lesbians in front of me for 10 min. oh yeah everyone came on again to sing that song i forgot the name of and mya knew NO words. she just stood and clapped (though mya's BG singers knew all the words). then i came home went to bed and woke up at 4 in the morning very thirsty and disorientated. i went down the hallway to the kitchen and started guzzling milk for 30 sec. bad idea. i then got lemonade and b4 i could pour it i fell on the floor and felt as if i would throw up. then i started to see red dots and stood up. bad move. i then walked in complete darkness and suddenly slammed into a wall (hard...so hard in fact that the hallway rumbled) then fell on the ground and opened my eyes and i somehow got back into the hallway. i felt like i would faint then crawled back in my bed and went to an unconsious state. well anyway, this was long. disoriented, nathan NP: TEKLA- somebody else i spy a may queen _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: trading block/vh1 Hi gang- Got a couple things up for trade. I ran across a new Glamour magazine, after buying my own, so now I have an extra if someone wants to avoid the supermarket checkout line and trade for something else with Liz content. I also have an extra copy of the Ben Folds Five 2/15/98 show in Chicago at which Ben sings "Chopsticks". He also references her in an imprompatu song about Chicago - "Liz Phair lives here." So if you'd like to trade for the show on tape, email me private-like. Also, I saw Liz for 40 seconds today on Women First. Could they have shown less of the song? I was aching for more, but instead they switched to the country Wilson Phillips (The Dixie Chicks.) Can't wait to see what they say re: Liz on the 100 Greatest Women countdown. Bye for now, paige NP: Higher Learning soundtrack _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:25:56 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: violent posting...you will now recieve an email beating... Nathan irritated me by saying: >so let's just face the reality that liz's voice and style are >changing. Deal with it. DO NOT DWELL. i find it exTREMEly annoying when >people do that little "well back then she was more __________ (fill in the >blank). >The same goes with HOLE. Well, Nathan... I think the point of having a Liz Phair list is too discuss Liz and her work. This means past work, present work and future work. I suggest you "DEAL WITH IT AND STOP DWELLING"! And if youre so sick of it, maybe try posting something to talk about, instead of complaints. Start a thread. And nathan covered his ass by saying: >I've been listening to Juvenalia really non-stop today and i've decided i >was a 5-min illiterate hypocrite last night b/c now i miss the old liz....=( >oh well, >nathan Okay nate... now you are truly a hypocrite... but I dont care, as long as you realize that there will always be comparisons with her work. You cant avoid it... and if you can... youre not on this list, because someone will always compare (jasons "first album" theory fits here). Nate...now go listen to EIG and WS and dwell on it... DarkSideofTheMoon says: >Since you asked about peyote, anyone ever try Kava Kava? Not bad for a legal >high! Kava-Kava? Isnt that to aid sleeping? I have taken it to sleep...well... I took it for a few days... pray tell darkside!!! Peyote: Surprisingly it is easily found up here (Maine) it doesnt grow up I dont think... but there are many native americans (not to mention the burnt-out hippies) who use it. >"Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you >through times of no dope..." >The Fabulous, Furry Freak Brothers I love this quote... so friggin true... fuck it-- grow your own and smoke for free! (Although I would never encourage anyone to do illegal things, such as growing marijuana... which is wrong and bad. Dont do drugs, kids!) Okay now I wont be arrested. phew. Bob quipped to DarkSideotm: >Have you been listening to your Judybats b-sides again? Wow... another Judybats fan? I love _pain makes you beautiful_... such a sweet quirky, bouncy, melancholy, poetic sound... Anyone else? Any more Judybats fans? I think I have carpal tunnel.... my wrist hurts.... damn. I guess I'll end my post... I'm not the best at typing left-handed. ~jaime* - - ------- - "I wont lie, then i can't deny, I did it all for the nookie..." --Limp Bizkit NP: Liz Phair _live in San Francisco 12/26/93_ ****************thanks roberta!********************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:06:12 -0400 From: "Ginz" Subject: SEAN O'BRIEN Sorry to disturb the whole list, but could SEAN O'BRIEN please contact me? The return adress attached to your emails may not be correct. I'm nost sure if you are getting my emails. Ginz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:34:45 EDT From: AGsPackage@aol.com Subject: Liz Phair - The Gorge/George, WA 7-9-99 Did anyone go to this show. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:44:46 -0400 (EDT) From: morg hart Subject: WCSE Sessions I just got Ken's Cd's today (Thanks again, Ken!!!), and I gotta say, they're pretty damn awesome. I can't believe this is the rejected stuff. My favorites are: Russian Girl, Blood Keeper, Hurricane Cindy, Freak of Nature, Greased Lightning, and Tell Me You Like Me. Blood Keeper is such a great song. I think it woulda made a good single. And Greased Lightning is really retro-sounding. I like it. But frankly, I didn't care much for Oh My God. Just my opinion. I also really liked Bars of the Bed, but I don't really get it. Could someone explain it to me? Is she having an affair in the song? Geez. Anywho, that's all fer now. Later. Morgan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:29:48 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: morrissey sings for girls, nate's family is fun, gwar docu Hey Ginz: >VH1 did a short article on GWAR. These guys are pretty bizarre, for those who've >never seen them. During the interview, they played the intro to >Polyester Bride. I saw it!! I was watching part of the VH1 thing cos that's all they ever show and I heard PB, at first I wasn't sure, cos I didn't expect to hear LIZ in a GWAR documentary, but it definietely was!!!! And regarding the women relating to Morrissey thing: He has proclaimed himself to be asexual, although it seems (and I don't mean to sound like I am stereotyping here) that he would lean more toward homosexuality than heterosexuality.I have found that I can relate to most homosexual men, better than hetero, they can usually understand /empathize with a woman's perspective and vcie versa. Morrissey's preferences aside, It is true that some of his music could be more about experiences of a male, regardless of orientation, so it is possible I guess, that it probably just balances out. I think his music/lyrics are trans-gender and can be understood and appreciated by both sexes. I have always indulged in Morrissey and the SMITHS when heartbroken or sad about life and I have known others, male and female alike to do the same. <> Yes. Although I only slit them on alternate rainy Tuesdays. I used to listen to it and just lay in bed and stare at my bdrm walls which I painted grey bcos I was really into that album at the time (the cover is grey, I was in a grey/blah kind of mood) I think Pornography is a good depressing album too. Last, Nathan your family sounds cool. Why can't my parents listen to cool music? My dad is in love w/Celine Dion, he and mom, listen to CELINE, Babs, and some andrea bocelli dude all the time!!!! It is so horrible, cos Celine is probably one of my alltime least favorite, MOST HATED performers!!! Liz is boring??????????? What's up with that? How could she ever be boring? is your dad into ska or punk or something? By the way, that Ani 12" is awesome- did you mention that it is light blue and looks like a powder blue marble bowling ball? The remixes are awesome- there were only about 1200 pressed, so how the hell did you get one? We had one at our radio station, but our former music director stole it along w/lots of other stuff ;and he still has the nerve to show up every week!! without giving it back! That's all for me I must go Wait before I go------------- (screech, the rubber burns, tires screech) has anyone heard the Dressy Bessy album - Pink Hearts Yellow moons ??? iis soo good and boppy, lite female vocals, I have "I found Out" stuck in my head. ALso, why wasn't "Russian Girl" on WCSE? I was listening to it today and thought it would have fit well, it's an awesome song, and I like when Liz plays a bit harder w/the guitar... kinda like "Don't have time" and even "Rocket Boy" Do you think it will make the next album? toodles dp in nj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:30:21 -0700 (PDT) From: raymond lew Subject: blair witch project some stuff i heard on the radio: the film is more of a documentary than it is a "movie." some kids actually went up into the cursed woods (or whatever it is) to research the blair witch project. they were never seen again. one year later, the footage that they recorded was found, much of which is in the movie. well, i heard this on k-rock (not kroq! i'm in jersey!), so i don't know how much truth there is to it, but i'll believe it. ...ray **************************************************************************** "I'm a wreck, I'm obsessed, I'm insane. Isn't that what you want me to say?" --Liz Phair the writings on the wall >> www-scf.usc.edu/~rlew beginning to see the light >> www-scf.usc.edu/~rlew/liz_phair **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:03:32 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: siobha5@ibm.net Subject: wcse vs. eig >One last thought that occured to me from all of this. I'm just curious if >anyone's first exposure to Liz came via _whitechocolatespaceegg_, but >they've found themselves ending up liking one of the earlier albums more? >This would be interesting to hear, and it may just blow my "the first one >you hear is the one that remains your favorite" theory to hell. I bought wcse after falling in love with polyester bride which they played regularly on my favorite radio station. Polyester bride was my first exposure to liz and i absolutely loved the album. Then one of my friends bought me eig for my birthday because i had mentioned that i was curious about liz's earlier work. The first time i listened to it i was really turned off, the only song i kind of liked was soap star joe, which ironically is now my least favorite song on the album. i don't know if it was because of the language and imagery or what, but i never listened to it. i joined this list and after hearing everyone talk about the older songs i was curious so i revisited eig (i had also recently been going through a lot of inner turmoil) and i couldn't believe i had left the album sitting in my cd rack getting dusty for so long. i had a lot of crap to deal with this spring and i would have never got through it had it not been for eig. i felt like there was finally someone who understood and had had to deal with the same crap i did. everytime i listen to canary it makes me cry. so i don't know if this blew your theory to hell jase, but i do prefer liz's older sound to her new stuff. it may just be a personal thing and because of circumstance. ~siobhan ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #207 ************************************