From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #206 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, July 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 206 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Placebo ["Sally Mae" ] liz's new songs ["Stacey Wirt" ] crying your ass off ["Stephanie Morris" ] more Blair Witch stuff ["May Queen" ] CK ad [Valerie Barry ] A-musing ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] SP.... ["Sally Mae" ] Dead Rock Stars [tommyk7@excite.com] RE: support-system-digest V2 #205 ["Bodamer, David" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #204 [Faerie1999@aol.com] you act like you're 14 years old ["Nicole W." ] Blair Witch [Amy Sorlie ] Blair Witch Project and VH1 [Suzanne Walsh ] Blair Witch Project and VH1 [Suzanne Walsh ] Re: A-musing ["Bob Lucier, Jr." ] identification please [baggytrousers@mindspring.com] Liz changing her sound [Craig King ] Re: Liz changing her sound [Miz Phair ] Re: "old liz"? [Jason Long ] Courtney/Hole [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:27:56 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Placebo Placebo's Without You I'm Nothing was released in Australia this year, on Feb 15th so it does *at least for aussies* qualify for best cds of the first half of '99. Placebo apparently found it hilarious that the release date was a day after Valentine's Day for some unknown reason according to a British magazine. "It's regeneration, mental masturbation" *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 02:04:28 -0400 From: "Stacey Wirt" Subject: liz's new songs hey everybody! It's great to hear liz is recording again and playing new songs....to those of you who went to the lilith show - what does the love/hate song sound like? is it anything like Firewalker or Don't apologize? we need details! Nicole said: >So there's CGOOWII, Firewalker, Don't Apologize, Love/Hate, and Stranger. >And surely she has more songs up her sleeve... but from what I've heard >and hearsay, so far she's on a roll with amazing songs. Yeehaw! Go Liz! > I hope Conversation Overheard Between Two Bouncers gets on the album too..... Does anyone who went to the Lounge Ax show remember if liz said that it was going to be on her new album? hopefully it won't get forgotten in between albums like Wasted, You have No Idea, or I'll Get You High.... didn't liz say somewhere that she recorded seven new songs? cuz including Conversation, that would be six new songs all together....hmmmmmm wonder if she'll play anymore new ones at other lilith dates. - --Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:23:41 -0700 From: "Stephanie Morris" Subject: crying your ass off If you really want to listen to a tear jerker/ slit your wrists album, put on "Faith" by the Cure. That used to do it for me all the time. Not that I slit my wrists every time I listened... and, from #205 "The Question: Can a woman truly indentify with Morrissey?" I believe so. The lonliness, longing, whatever he expresses can be felt by a woman too. Just like a man can identify with La Liz. Remember she said "I don't see what difference it makes if I'm a man or a woman" Damn, now I can't remember what the song was from Girlysounds. Duh. And it's probably totally out of context. I like the line in that song about her having been in her room all afternoon and it's hot outside. She seemed to just be sitting there w/ not much to do but play her guitar and hang out inside. Aah, Liz. Ok, I am spacy. Just got back from massage class. Tonight was necks. I feel relaxed and happy. np- Lovelines ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:31:24 GMT From: "May Queen" Subject: more Blair Witch stuff For those who are interested (and I've noticed), here is a link to ALL of the theaters that will be playing The Blair Witch Project (opening July 16). http://tbwp.freeservers.com/theaterlist.html I've been listening to Juvenalia really non-stop today and i've decided i was a 5-min illiterate hypocrite last night b/c now i miss the old liz....=( oh well, nathan ********************************************************************** Don't you know I'm very happy You know me well I'm even happier, I like it i i i i i i like it.... With all of the time in the world to spend it Wild and unwise I wanna be mesmerizing too Mesmerizing too Mesmerizing to you _____________________________Liz Phair ********************************************************************** oh and has anyone you know ever referred to liz as "boring"? Probably none so violent as my dad! I made a liz mix for his car and we (I) listened for a while b4 my dad suddenly (and violently) tore it out of the tape player and threw it HARD past my feet and into my car door, yelling "THAT'S BORING" in which i quickly crept into a fetal position and admired my Shonen Knife purchase. i made a tape for my mom though, and she likes her a lot. and i told her the same story and she replied, "This is boring?" and she talked shit about my dad for a while. i really don't know what has been his trip lately. he is taking me to lilith tomorrow which will be TODAY when this list is shown. He took me to ani last FRI where she played 5-6 new songs, ranging from parties to gun control to abortion. The gun song was called "To the Teeth" and there is a site with lyrics and an mp3 i can post or mail u if u are interested. well my aunt came to my room today and said, "WHAT A COOL ANI POSTER." hmmm. well anyway. once my record player works (needle broKEn) i can play my (somewhat) exclusive LITTLE PLASTIC REMIXES 12". It has My IQ (live 97'), and a mix of glass house, LPC, and gravel. well bye again. thanks for reading if u got this far though my boring ramblings. uh huh, nathan again _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:03:37 -0400 From: Valerie Barry Subject: CK ad >The Liz CK article in Glamour, etc is just fucking cool! which issue? i just got Glamour in the mail and my CK ad has lauryn hill. i'm inthe south...is it a geographical thing? *********************************************************** "...well look at me i'm frightening my friends..." - -Liz Phair ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:32:19 PDT From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: A-musing Nathan pondered: >i was just wondering why some liz fans are so hooked on he older liz such >as EIG. I am glad that liz now has variety in her songs. So What Are Some >People's Trip??????? so let's just face the reality that liz's voice and >style are changing. Deal with it. DO NOT DWELL. i find it exTREMEly >annoying when people do that little "well back then she was more __________ >(fill in the blank). It's called your own personal taste. Not 'dwelling' really, it's just a moment frozen in time to enjoy. I like WCSE, but truthfully I like EIG more and WS prob more than EIG. I know in part it has to do with her producer. Even the songs on WCSE that I found myself liking more than others were produced by Brad (and thats b4 I looked to see who produced which songs so I wasn't biased). I find the 'less produced - more lo-fi' sound of those 2 albums more to my liking. Yes, she is changing, I have no problem with that. So what is your trip? What's wrong with saying 'back then she was more rawer' or that her work with Brad & Casey was some of the best shes ever done? And I think I asked this b4 but never really got an answer. I've seen Whip-smart referred to critically as her 'flawed' second album...ummm excuse me? Flawed? Support System, Go West, May Queen..c'mon...Is there a bad song somewhere I'm mising? Her guitar work and esp her voice on WS are phenomenal IMHO. So what's flawed? I hate professional critics..fuck'em ..just their opinion thats all...Jase, a little help or an article/review to reference Whip-Smart maybe??? - ------------------------- Michael Carapella wrote: >>Yes, even though it's George's song and he sings the verses, John sings us >>'everybody had a wet dream' and so on... >>You don't have a copy of Let It Be? Shame on you!<< >Thank you sir, may I have another!! That's a Harrison composition? That >doesn't even sound remotely like a Harrison song to me. It sound like the >same Paul verse/John chorus equation that created A Day in the Life. I posted my withdrawl of that statement a few digests ago, because I was way wrong on it...it is John/Paul not George...brain death occurred when I wrote that originally...ugghh - ------------------------------- Nic-'ole-dirtybastard sez: >Bleh my post doesnt' sound very Nicole-like, if you know what I mean. I >sound like some corny ass teeny bopper fan. maybe i am. buh-bye. Nicole, the emergency shipment of Fruit Loops and celery is on its way. - ---------------- Tad reminded us: >Just a reminder to all: >Vote for Liz at http://www.freevote.com/booth/rollergirl >You can vote 5X each day so let's push Liz to the top of the list >just for fun---the voting continues until 12/31/99. Yes! and throw a few votes in for Jennifer Aniston too, Gawd what a beautiful woman. Even her hair is f***able.... - ----------------- Jamie flashbacked: >I've done acid once, mushrooms >once -- and although many of my friends swear it's great fun, I wouldn't >recommend it to anyone. I didn't have great experiences with either. >I feel as though I should throw in my experience too. I have never done >acid... its 'man-made' and I've always been against that stuff Aww c'mon Jamie..if you cut out everything man-made...thats a shitload of wunderful pharmaceuticals.... >If you are feeling really good about yourself...(you cant hide your >problems when you are tripping--they come out...) YOU MUST *KNOW* WHO YOU >ARE....as in-- you MUST be confident. and if you are... try shrooms or >acid. >but dont get scared. Sound advice, Jamie. Thanks for typing what I wanted to write advice-wise but hopin someone else would. Atmosphere is very key...and put aside 24 hours where you don't have to do a fucking thing or be around anyone who freaks you in a bad way when you're NOT trippin...(parents, cops, anyone at your front door, etc.) >Anyone ever done peyote? I have been offered it recently... I'd like to >hear experiences. Immediately take it, place it in a brown discreet envelope and mail to me for chemical testing. But seriously, Never done peyote (mescaline), hard to get down here in the South (hint, hint)...for a good non-fiction account of peyote, 'shrooms and datura read Carlos Castaneda's 'The adventures of Don Juan: A Yaqui way of knowledge'. Fascinating reading. Since you asked about peyote, anyone ever try Kava Kava? Not bad for a legal high! - ------------------ Bait Shop: >Imagine is still my favorite Harrison song though... Hmmmmm...I would swear that John sang Imagine... ....shhhh...I see one.....(whizzzzzzzzzz......plop....reeling in slow) "Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope..." The Fabulous, Furry Freak Brothers NP: Whip-Smart Promo Version DarkSide oftheMoon _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:27:59 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: SP.... Another musician who died, the keyboardist who toured with the Smashing Pumpkins (don't know name) who died of a heorin overdose followed by Jimmy Chamberlin leaving/being kicked out? of SP. *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 05:56:37 PDT From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: Dead Rock Stars Shannon Hoon from Blind Melon died in 1995. I only remember this because my girlfriend at the time thought he was a "hottie." "Hotty?" My acid quote: "Dude, I just lost my mind! Oh, there it is..." TMK NP: Beastie Boys, _Paul's Boutique_ It was dark as I drove the point home And on cold leather seats well it suddenly struck me I just might die with a smile on my face after all... - --The Smiths, "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:42:07 -0400 From: "Bodamer, David" Subject: RE: support-system-digest V2 #205 > I was wondering if anyone was going to mention Duane Allman, and I'm glad > someone did. Anyway, a couple more dead folks that ought to be > remembered: Gram Parsons, country-rock pioneer; and Robert Johnson, > king of the Delta Blues (shot to death? strangled? no one knows for > sure, which makes it even cooler). I thought it was established that Johnson was poisoned by the husband of one of his many mistresses. I saw a screening of a documentary about him a few years ago at a film festival. That's how the film told the story anyway. >> >well has anyone heard of the >> >blair witch project? > > Didn't see the Sci-Fi preview, but the buzz in DC for this movie is > approaching "Phantom Menace" proportions. There was a long article in the > 'Post' about it Sunday and the radio stations are pushing it non-stop. I > heard from the Sundance camp that it's really good for such a low-budget > film. One of the directors is local to DC. He lives right in Maryland somewhere. A friend of mine from work is a roommate with a friend of one of the directors (hope that was clear). Her house actually appears in the movie. She's seen it a few times and says its very scary, mostly because you're left to imagine the most horrible stuff for yourself. It's not sprayed on the screen for you. Sounds refresing. >I've done acid once, mushrooms >once -- and although many of my friends swear it's great fun, I wouldn't >recommend it to anyone. I didn't have great experiences with either. and > If you are feeling really good about yourself...(you cant hide your >problems when you are tripping--they come out...) YOU MUST *KNOW* WHO YOU >ARE....as in-- you MUST be confident. and if you are... try shrooms or acid. >but dont get scared. Just let it flow... and I'd suggest you get with a few >friends you'd trust with your life and go somewhere very private (not a >college campus) and trip and have a good time. If you feel scared... let a >friend know. have them talk you out of it. Appreciate nature... JUST >WHATEVER YOU DO STAY CALM!!! If you panic youre screwed, because panic >speeds up your head --which is already speeding at about 180 mph. Follow >these rules and you should be alright. dont forget to breathe! I think the best advice for anyone thinking about experimenting is to do some research beforehand. Go to the DEA web page. They've got descriptions of all drugs and their effects. It might surprise you how honest it is. It's not all "drugs are evil, bad, evil, evil." Another good source for information is http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/. There are even some newsgroups out there with FAQs on drugs. I've never posted to the list before and as of yet I have no Liz content. That's probably un-good. In response to another post that I didn't paste here I'll say that I prefer EIG to WCSE because I think that overall it's a stronger album. It has some highs and lows but it's remarkably consistent in quality. I feel like WCSE is not nearly as cohesive. It seems to me more like a collection of songs rather than a composition that should be viewed holistically. As far as Liz's song writing ability goes, it's good that she's increased her versatility. I like her most recent songs a lot but I just don't find myself sitting down and listening to WCSE in one shot. I listen to it in bits and pieces instead. Take that for whatever it's worth. d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:09:53 EDT From: Faerie1999@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #204 In a message dated 7/13/99 1:21:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << attention kiddos! someone mentioned they saw liz's calvin klein ad in the vogue? am i remembering someone correctly? it was in the digest a few days ago and i'm desperate to see this picture. whoever's got it, scan it for those of us hermits who'd rather not venture out into convenience store hell. thanks. beam me up, lazyboy. sara >> Its also in Elle (august) and Glamour (august) :) Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:53:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: you act like you're 14 years old Umm as long as we're going into some pretty long dead performers, how about Woody Guthrie? I mean as far as the died before their time musicians go. I can't believe some of the names I didn't think of myself for this thread (haha... i almost typed "string"), like Brad NOwell. I used to be a big Sublime fan. Oh well. Oh how about... that guy in Joy Division? Ian something. Did anyone mention him yet? I know what will happen. I will get this digest and someone will have posted that erarlier in the same digest. It happens like that always. People of London, you must tell me the secrets of where I should go,cuz i'm fucking burnt out on london. Sad but true. But I still love those sandwitches that come in the triangle containers. I think america should have those. Mmmmm. People, I might start getting [more] delirious and incoherent, cuz I ate a hamburger today (well what McDonald's calls a hamburger) cuz I was fiending so bad for one, but the reason I wasn't eating any was cuz i'm afraid fo mad cow disease, so anyway, now i might have it. I can't believe i gave in. HOpefully the rumors [shit... freudian type-o... i just typed "tumors" instead of "rumors"... tumors are a deadlyu thing, like mad cow disease] are truet hat mc d's burgers are made from worms, cuz that way i won't get mad cow disease, maybe mad worm disease, though. Time for me to eat. me hungry. Coming up next (also unrelated to Liz), a petition to bring Ricicles cereal to the united states. They used to have them, only they were called Frosted Rice Krispies. Furthermore, they used to make MARSHMALLOW Frosted Rice Krispies, which were just even more good! Mmmmmm so yeah, tha'ts my next project. i said "more good". ha. Later, Nicole NP: Exile in Guyville -Engelbert Humperdinck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:30:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Sorlie Subject: Blair Witch Hi guys, Haven't posted in awhile but being the movie-buff that I am, I just had to comment on The Blair Witch Project. I am interning right now in Hollywood and the buzz about it is really big! My friend has already seen it and he said it will revolutionize the horror movie as we know it. It is all done in 8mm (videocamera) footage, which I guess makes it seem even more real. I read a great article that said they auditioned 2000 people for the roles and that they had no script for this movie, which is amazing. Anyway, I heard it is super scary and it will make the two filmmakers a huge wad of cash considering it cost virtually nothing to make. Sounds interesting...can't wait. **Amy** _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:29:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Walsh Subject: Blair Witch Project and VH1 Allright - firstoff I'm not a big fan of offtopic posts but people have been talking about Blair Witch Project and I have to brag. This guy I know somehow got a bootleg type copy on DVD and gave a little "preview" at his house so I'VE SEEN IT! And let me tell you - it's scary as all hell. You won't want to go in the woods after you see this movie. Next on the list: in the last digest somebody wrote that they saw Poly bride on VH1. Well yesterday on "women first" (usually host to alanis, shania, jewel, etc) they did a special Lilith Fair show. So they showed Liz talking about Lilith and then they showed like a 4 second clip of "supernova". It was really exciting for me. === The one and only, Suzanne Explain It To Me http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Hall/9429 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:29:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Walsh Subject: Blair Witch Project and VH1 Allright - firstoff I'm not a big fan of offtopic posts but people have been talking about Blair Witch Project and I have to brag. This guy I know somehow got a bootleg type copy on DVD and gave a little "preview" at his house so I'VE SEEN IT! And let me tell you - it's scary as all hell. You won't want to go in the woods after you see this movie. Next on the list: in the last digest somebody wrote that they saw Poly bride on VH1. Well yesterday on "women first" (usually host to alanis, shania, jewel, etc) they did a special Lilith Fair show. So they showed Liz talking about Lilith and then they showed like a 4 second clip of "supernova". It was really exciting for me. === The one and only, Suzanne Explain It To Me http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Hall/9429 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:32:22 -0400 From: "Bob Lucier, Jr." Subject: Re: A-musing >>>Yes! and throw a few votes in for Jennifer Aniston too, Gawd what a beautiful woman. Even her hair is f***able....<<< Hey DSotM, Have you been listening to your Judybats b-sides again? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:27:42 -0700 From: baggytrousers@mindspring.com Subject: identification please From: Ginz |Back to the discussion of Morrissey.... there is an age-old argument in the |Morrissey fan community that parallels our discussion of whether or not men |can truly identify with Liz's music. |The Question: Can a woman truly indentify with Morrissey? hmm...you know..i dont beleive i have ever seen that discussed on the morrissey/smiths list (god knows we discuss everything else..we seem to have annual arguements on religion, veganism, is he or isnt he?) not to harp on about morrissey here on a liz mailing list...but i think that i could possibly identify more with morrissey than with liz (and im a girl, btw)..maybe its just the song topics, i dont know...ive never fucked and run, had a johnny feelgood, etc...but ive been miserable (heaven knows im miserable now), ive felt the emotion from "there is a light..", it just seems to *mean* more to me... i know a lot of people who feel they cant get "into" an artist if the music means nothing to them, but i do enjoy liz, i do enjoy the subjects (i just cant relate sometimes), i like the fact that i can sing along in my OWN voice and dont have to try to emulate some terrible sounding falsetto just to sound similar, i like the fact that in bootlegs you can hear liz talking to the crowd rather than be an oasis-like figure and just say "shakermaker" before the song..i realise some people are there to hear singing and not dialogue inbetween songs, but sometimes that makes it even more worthwhile and endearing..i guess im rambling, so this is a good a place as any to stop... ta for reading (if you made it this far) roberta ICQ #27407066 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I may be an adult now but i was shocked to find out how much of my youthful idiocy was still entact .....you may be part of society now from the eyes of a 15-year old but I'm completely still sitting on the fence between in and out, and us and them. -Liz Phair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:02:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: Liz changing her sound < Subject: Re: Liz changing her sound This couldn't have possibly been said any better. This is exactly how I feel! I love the growth in Liz. I will always adore Guyville and it will probably always be my favorite album ever, but Egg means a lot to me too. And Whip-Smart. And Juvenalia. I can't wait to hear the new songs! paige- - --- Craig King wrote: > I agree 100%! You can't live in the past. I find > it extremely boring > when artists keep creating the same kind of music > over and over and > over again. (snip) > > I love the fact that Liz's music is evolving all of > the time. (snip) Some people may not like it, but that's > their fault. I > myself loved WCSE from the moment I put it in my CD > player, and I am > extremely excited for the new album. I can't wait > to see exactly what > musical direction Liz will go in next. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:04:49 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: "old liz"? At 06:09 AM 7/13/1999 GMT, nathaNNNNNNN wrote: >i was just wondering why some liz fans are so hooked on he older liz such as >EIG. Some people hate the new pop songs and i have noticed that many of the >new (different?) sounding songs are at the bottom of their WCSE lists. I am >glad that liz now has variety in her songs. some are raw and some are just >over all popsy cuteness (Baby Got Going). So What Are Some People's >Trip??????? And i have noticed that many saw "I wonder if Liz "Pahir"=) will >release an album as good as EIG, well that is not everyone's though the most >acclaimed. so let's just face the reality that liz's voice and style are >changing. Deal with it. DO NOT DWELL. i find it exTREMEly annoying when >people do that little "well back then she was more __________ (fill in the >blank). Well, I don't know if this might have anything to do with it, but one thing I've noticed is that a lot of the time, usually the first album someone hears by an artist -- their introduction to that artists' vision and overall style -- usually remains their favorite. For me, I do like all of Liz's albums, but I will admit that I do favor _Exile in Guyville_, which was my first Liz. I like the stripped-down sound to it and the arrangements -- it was completely unlike anything I'd heard at that time and the songs still sound fresh today. Unlike many of the albums that I was listening to at that time, EIG has really stood the test of time. I also relate more to the lyrics on it than the other albums, and it feels more intimate to me than, say, _whitechocolatespaceegg_, and that is a big draw for me. On EIG, it really feels as though Liz has you in the palm of her hand, whereas on some of the newer songs, it feels like she's keeping you at arm's length. There's a real sense of distance that pervades a few of the songs, but perhaps part of the reason for this is the fact that she's no longer writing solely in the first person. (Also, this thought has crossed my mind several times in the past, although I've never expressed it on the list -- perhaps this sense of distance is why when Liz plays live, she tends to go heavy on the early material, while shying away from playing more than a handful of WCSE songs, even though it's her most recent release. Just a thought.) Also, EIG came along at just the right moment when I really needed an album like it -- I was going through some tough times and it really helped me through them. I guess the personal connection I feel with the album has a lot to do with why I like it the most. That's not to say that I don't like the newer material, but I find I'm now more attracted by the music than the lyrics, whereas before, it was the combination of the two that grabbed me. That's not true of all of the songs on WCSE, though, as there are some definite exceptions (I think "Go On Ahead," "Perfect World" and "What Makes You Happy" are phenomenal in all respects), but certainly is the case with some of them. About Liz's voice, I like the fact that it's much stronger now, and one of the best parts about seeing her live over the past year is hearing some of the older songs performed with it. At the same time, I kind of miss her old vocal style, which seemed very conversational and intimate and is another thing I found so appealing about her music early on. I do also like the fact that her songwriting and sound are much more varied now, but I wish all of the songs had the same kind of emotional impact as the older ones. Yes, there's a lot to like about the "new" Liz Phair -- and a lot to like about the old one, as well. Also, for the record, I don't really think that anyone's dwelling that much. It's all a matter of personal taste, and some people are just naturally more attracted to Liz's early sound. It's like another one of my favorite artists, Joni Mitchell -- some prefer her earlier, more folkish material, while others prefer her excursions into jazz territory. I don't really think one opinion or the other is wrong; we're all just naturally more attracted to certain sounds that we like to hear -- what's "pleasurable to our ears" (to borrow a phrase from fellow list member Robbie). >The same goes with HOLE. > >b4 1st album= fine >Pretty on the inside= sell out >Live Through Ths= sell out >Celebrity Skin= extreme sell out > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >these are based on many responses from "veteran" hole fans. I would consider myself a veteran Hole fan (not that that really means anything, though -- I've never been one to care much about exactly when a person got into a band), and you know what? I like all of their albums just about equally and would be hard pressed to choose a favorite. There's a lot to like about each album, and each has its own unique style. I don't have a problem with the fact that they've consistently gotten "poppier" with each new release, because it always suits the songs they are writing at the time - -- besides, what the songs actually sound like doesn't mean much if that's all they have going for them. Actual substance is more important than style, in my opinion. I think one of the most interesting things about _Celebrity Skin_ is how the band has managed to marry its most accessible melodies with some occasionally quite dark -- but more subtle than in the past -- lyrics. Not an easy feat to pull off successfully, to have it sound completely natural, but they managed to make it work. In a way, they're being very subversive -- while some of the subjects raised on _Celebrity Skin_ have been addressed in their past work as well, more people are apt to listen now, since the music is more "conventionally pretty." One last thought that occured to me from all of this. I'm just curious if anyone's first exposure to Liz came via _whitechocolatespaceegg_, but they've found themselves ending up liking one of the earlier albums more? This would be interesting to hear, and it may just blow my "the first one you hear is the one that remains your favorite" theory to hell. Anyway, just my two cents. Cheers, Jase NP: Matthew Sweet, _100% Fun_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:09:41 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Courtney/Hole Attention Hole fans: Make sure you tune into 'Late Show With David Letterman' tomorrow (Thursday) night. Someone told me that they are going to be airing a repeat of the show where Courtney was a guest and the band performed "Awful" live. Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #206 ************************************