From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #197 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, July 6 1999 Volume 02 : Number 197 Today's Subjects: ----------------- URGENT/ SY GEAR STOLEN! [Persy Grrrl ] 1999/ HOLE music. [Dan ] All of it ["M.L.Magdalene" ] ... north of england way ["Nicole W." ] belated b-day wishes [katieroper@juno.com] lots of stuff [Ascending to the Stars ] oops... [Ascending to the Stars ] response, defense, whatever [Danaldj@aol.com] It's been a while ["Michael Carapella" ] White Rabbit ["M.L.Magdalene" ] hot buns in the summertime... [MrE ] 2 things ["Brian P. Falk" ] sessions at west 54th [May Queen ] a reply to Katie R's reply [clewis@rpm.com] Poetries, dreams and sodas [Katie Lynne ] Sgt. Jase's Lonely Hearts Club ["Cynthia Nagle" ] Session this ["Stephanie Morris" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 06:25:05 PDT From: Persy Grrrl Subject: URGENT/ SY GEAR STOLEN! Liz fans, Apologies for no Liz content, but since you were talking about Sonic Youth when their 'A Thousand Leaves' came out, I thought this would be a good place to pass this on. I don't think it's a hoax, it was sent to me by Abby Travis (the chick that sings/plays bass with KMFDM & also does her own stuff). >>  URGENT/SY GEAR STOLEN! >> >>  july 4 1999 LA/Orange County >> >> >>  Hello all, this is Lee from Sonic Youth >>  here, we have had a fucked up situation >>  come down on us over this last night--a >>  brand new Ryder truck parked at a Ramada >>  Inn in Orange County with ALL OF OUR GEAR >>  IN IT was STOLEN! All of our guitars, >>  tools, amplifiers, drums, synth -- >>  EVERYTHING. We are fucked, both for the >>  show tonight at the "This Ain't No Picnic" >>  here in Orange Co., and for shows upcoming >>  this week in Austin and Santa Fe. Our >>  guitars are all mostly older and either >>  very modified and/or fucked up/beat up. >>  They are unmistakably ours, as are some of >>  the amps, including my own 60s Fender >>  Concert with the red/blue/yellow "Jasper >>  Johns-style" target on it. >> >>  We are asking ANYONE with ANY INFORMATION >>  about this to get in touch with us as soon >>  as possible by calling our man Aaron >>  Blitzstein in New York City at >>  212.343.2314, or via email to >>  "Mascaras66@aol.com". Call collect if you >>  want to. Please no pranks, all, this is >>  really serious--all the gear we've used to >>  write our last few LPs worth of stuff, >>  instruments used for songs old and new >>  which if truly lost will mean those songs >>  will be lost forever. >> >>  Help us out if you can, there will be a >>  reward for any info, I'm sure. All our road >>  cases, etc, are fully marked up with our >>  name on them, the gtrs are so unusual that >>  they won't really be too hard to mistake. >>  ANY info at all will be appreciated. >> >>  If the thieves themselves read this, I'm >>  sure we'd rather buy the stuff back from >>  you than lose it forever (you fukkerz). >> >>  here are some descriptions of gear: >> >>  drums: green satin flame 60s Gretch kit (w >>  "paisley" glow in dark kik head >> >>  Fender ToneMaster head and 4x12 cabinet >> >>  Fender blackface Concert (4x10) w "Target >>  design" spraypainted on front >> >>  PeeVey RoadMaster Head >> >>  Marshal 4x12 cab >> >>  Mesa Boogie 400+ bass head/4x10 cab/18" cab >> >>  Fender Bassman head (two!)/ 2x12 fender cab >> >>  Fender presicion Bass >> >>  Gibson Les Paul Jr w snoopy sticker >> >>  Fender Jazzmasters and Jaguars--lots of >>  'em, mostly modified to hell (orig >>  electronix pulled, diff p/u's etc) and >>  usually way beat up. >> >>  Travis Beans--1 koa wood, one red beat to >>  shit >> >>  White roadcase/briefcase full of gtr tools >> >>  we will post more equip info later... >>  thanks in advance for any help... >> >>  PLEASE PASS THIS LIST ON TO ANYONE WHO >>  MIGHT BE OF HELP! >> >>  ---Lee/Sonic Youth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Subject: 1999/ HOLE music. >From: Craig King >> >> What does everyone think are >> the best albums of 1999 so far? For me there >> are only a few albums which I think are any >> good. Not much at all.. Missy Elliot - "Da Real World" Sleater-Kinney - "The Hot Rock" Blur - "13" (Wasn't too too bad...but at the same time..didn't ring my bell the way their first few did..) God..that's about it...so far. I'm hoping for maybe a Matthew Sweet album.. I have yet to hear the new Cranberries.. shit...there must be more that were decent...I'm just being stupid here...those 3 CAN'T be the highlight of the year so far.. I found that I bought more OLDER albums this year...from a few years back..1995-1998..I kind of caught up on all the albums I always wanted to get, ie - Erasure's "CowBoy" and Pulp's "This Is Hardcore", Tricky's "Angels With Dirty Faces" and I finally - yes *FINALLY* bought HOLE's "MY BODY, THe Hand Grendade" - which I am absolutely in love with..I can't stop listening to it ..for me, it's a totally new Hole album. I can't believe I went this long without grabbing it sooner. Also - any HOLE fans out there..again, this is most likely old news..but I finally picked up a few CD singles by them and the MALIBU single is a MUST - for any HOLE fan..the B-side "DRAG" is most likely one of the GREATEST Hole songs I have ever heard..I guess it was the original version of MALIBU - but my GOD! What a tune! You gotta grab it, if you haven't. and the b-side to Celebrity Skin, "BEST SUNDAY DRESS" - is absolutely amazing too..I guess this one was originally one of the songs Courtney and the chick from L7 wrote in one of their first bands...whatever, i'm brain dead now. It rocks. at any rate, Dan. (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) I'll tell you something, I am a wolf but I like to wear sheep's clothing. -Garbage, "Temptation Waits..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 09:39:23 PDT From: "M.L.Magdalene" Subject: All of it I would like to apologize in advance for this may be an extrememly lengthy post. I'm trying to catch up on a weeks worth of digests here as i have been in the city for a week and then running around dealing with all this fourth of July bullshit...so anyways.... >molly, your comment did not make me think you were "a sexist shallow > >little >bitch" and I wasn't attacking your comment. I was truly wondering >why >some >women think men don't understand liz pahir. No, i didn't feel like you where attacking my comment--it's just right after i posted that--i was like...what did i just say? So i felt the need to apologize profusely. Anyways--i think i finally REALLY discovered this last night--the guys that don't understand Liz don't understand her for the same reason that girls that don't understand her don't understand her(if you can follow the convulusions)and in my opinion that is because(and i'm not saying it's the only reason as she is complex)much of her music is so soft if you don't dig that kind of music then it's hard to see past that and really LISTEN. >allow me to ask >you just when you were male? not the butt of all jokes variety, but >the >real >flesh and bleeding emotion type? you know, the ones that somehow get > >lumped >in with the evil white male theorem, the all men are shit ideology, >the >ones >that are really sick of hearing just how the feel, just how they >ought to >feel and just how they will fell. SURE you can aske me when the last time i was a male was IF i can ask you when the last time you were a female was(and if i can also ask WHAT'S YOUR FUCKING POINT?!)not the slutty-stand-by-your-man-andstayhome and do the dishes and take care of the kids and cook dinner type of woman who can't drive after dark or take care of herself..but has somehow got classified as one..but the independent educated one that pulled herself out of allys and gutters to get this far and well RAGE against all bullshit in the world NOT because i am female or because you are male or because of anyones gender but because I CAN....don't even act like males have had it bad...or any worse then woman..i mean granted since the chicks got liberated you guys do have a tendency to get a bad rap but you DO NOT have it any worse than ussssss!!!!!!! >No one except Kurt and Courtney know what happened, who pulled the >trigger(dp), etc. How exactly do you figure that Courtney would know? You're not Rid of Me, M _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:11:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: ... north of england way Hello from London, SS... Tis my second day here in lovely London. London reallys eems to be a cool place, especially to my Yankee ass. I haven't seen a lot of London yet, however the place we're staying is in a great location so i've seen alot of cool places. i hope there is enough of london to last me six weeks. >and tonight i watched the movie, 'Simon Birch'. Read oh fuck where is teh quote button on this damned keyboard? double quotes. okay foudn it. read "A Prayer For Owen Meany" by John Irving. they ripped the movie off his book. it's a great book. he's a great writer. if you want, read the world according to garp bvefore you read this book. i started with that book and it was wonderful. i read like five or six more of John Irving's books. he's a really good author. of course, this was like three or four years ago, so i can't say 100% that he's great, cuz maybe my taaste was different back then. after all, i used to read shitloads of dean koontz (in like 8th grade, okay??)... i mean like at least 20 of his books. but thaat was 8th grade and i read john irving in like 10th or 11th. hmm. so people, where should i go in london? preferebly in zones 1 and 2 on the tube, cuz that's wehre i'm getting a tube pass for. the absolute worst part of this venture is the fact that i have to take classes. i'm realizng just how much i loathe classes. i've only had one, and i'm already ready to drop out of school forever. i'm really hoping that once i get back to real school and i'm taking m ore classes in myt major,t hat my opinion will change, but who knows. i've made it halfway, i can't just stop now, but i really want to. it's not even halfway, cuz i'm going to have to do the grad school thing, no doubt. sigh. No liz content. except on the plane they plaed that movie that has baby got going in it, but i was assleep adn anyway couldn't see a tv from my seat. i was hoping a big ruckus would break out when baby got going came on cuz the whole plane would be liek "who is this singer??? i must have all her albums!!!" but it didn't happen. well, anyway, i don't like the song baby got going... or i like it least of all liz's songs. whenever i see the program netscape communicator, in my head i go "I can be a Netscape Communicator... yes i'm winning spinning..." i'm okay. anyway, i better go. it's bad that in the two days i've been here, i've written three e-mails. one to ss and two to an unmentionable person. i know, it's bad to have even written him once, but i had to write him twice cusz i had a postscript to the first e-mail. sigh. Later, Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:20:42 -0400 From: katieroper@juno.com Subject: belated b-day wishes sorry i'm missed your birthday craig.... hope you had a wonderful fourth!! all together now: Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Crrrrrrraaaaiig, Happy Birthday to you!!! b-day katie ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 13:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: lots of stuff hello all you support system fans.. i've been going thru an anti-email faze, which is why i'm sure you al have been missing my posts. but anyways,,,, nicole, why didnt' you pack me in your suitcase?! I MISS LONDON!!!! anyways, hope everyone had a great 4th. i went to the city and john spencer blues explosion and luscious jackson for free at teh central park summer stage. then wathced fireworks over the east river. they had smiley face fireworks! so cool.... anyways, since i know there are other aimee mann fans on the list, if any of you happen to be in the nyc area, she is playing at tramps on august 7th, i believer. its a little steep at $17, but that is significantly less than lilith fair tickets cost, for what i am sure will probably be 3x as much music from her. also, i would suggest checking out vic chestnutt at the knitting factory next week.. he's amazing. anyways, off to go catch up on MCAT review after a weekend of drunken madness.. would it be bad to drink daquiris while studying? god... my parents should go away every weekend (okay, that made me sounds like a high school kid throwing parties while mammy and daddy go away, and i swear, i actually just like the fadct that i can come home, put liz on the central stereo system, and dance crazily through the house singing at the top of my lungs at 4am... that's really fun ) oh, KATIEBROWN!!! i'm done with your cds,m i'll sent them back asap, including the extra copies. and KEN!!!! do you still want me to make thoses cds for you? cause i need names and addresses...... later, dudes (:ruthie:), off to tackle 200 pp of organic chem. ps-- i just watched the movie 54, and i find it really amusing that i park my car next to a legendary club.... hmmmmmm..... *******DECEIVE*******INVEIGLE*******OBFUSCATE******* "Mulder, I'd kiss you if you weren't so damn ugly" "Wild and unwise, I want to be mesmerizing too" "All the stars up in heaven were rushed by the angels to see the light of your face better" --Liz Phair "I'd like to say it was great while it lasted, but I won't lie" --Jen Trynin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 13:43:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: oops... i forgot the importnat stuff... like... i have finally come into posession of a carnivore 7" !!!! yippie!!!! and there was somthing else, but i already forgot it... (:ruthie:) *******DECEIVE*******INVEIGLE*******OBFUSCATE******* "Mulder, I'd kiss you if you weren't so damn ugly" "Wild and unwise, I want to be mesmerizing too" "All the stars up in heaven were rushed by the angels to see the light of your face better" --Liz Phair "I'd like to say it was great while it lasted, but I won't lie" --Jen Trynin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:48:44 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: response, defense, whatever My time online lately has been limited so I have not been able to respond one-by-one to all of the responses to my apparently controversial words. The one rebuttal I would like to make is to Michael Webster. He posted the other day (not sure which day) something about me bashing milli vanilli. Hey Mike- I often speak and write in a sarcastic tone (it's all part of my wacky sense of humor) I thought perhaps the sarcasm in teasing you or anyone else for the milli vanilli concert was apparent. The Original post I made refering to someone listing Milli Vanilli as their first concert, was one of chiding and sarcasm. If I did not make that completely apparent and you all have not learned my lame sense of humor yet, and you were offended, I do most sincerely apologize. From now on- when (or rather, if) I make sarcastic or joking comments, I will make sure to mark the sarcasm in parentheses so you know. That's it. dp in nj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:11:55 -0700 From: "Michael Carapella" Subject: It's been a while With the support system list being so dense lately, I've been exhausted by the time I finish reading and haven't felt like writing anything. But right now I'm waiting for Eudora to download so I'll throw out a few disjointed thoughts that have been occurring to me as I've waded through the posts. When I first heard the song WCSE, I thought the chorus lyrics were, "I'll see you around, every hollow exit's favorite sound" which I thought was pretty cool, figuring she was talking about how when you're trying to get out of a conversation or just leave a situation you say, "I'll see you around" which doesn't really mean much of anything--thus a hollow exit. When I listened closer and read the lyric sheet and heard it was, "Every hollow HAS IT'S favorite sound" I thought--hmmm....... Anyway, those who remember my introduction in SS#175 might recall I had a Barbara Manning story to share. Now remember, I'm very new to Liz Phair and knew nothing of her or the riot grrrrls or any of that prior to May of this year. Last August I got stuck in San Francisco for a week supervising the installation of a telephone system that was supposed to take two days. I had only one change of clothes and by the fourth nite I had to do something to break the frustration so I went (in my suit) to the Great American Music Hall, which was packed on a Wednesday night. 1950s nerd seemed to be the style and the two main acts were Barbara Manning and Magnetic Fields, neither of which I had heard of. So out comes Barbara and I think to myself, "that's strange, she's up there strumming an electric guitar like it's an acoustic" and sometimes it was distorted and sometimes cleaner and the crowd seemed to like her for the most part. It just seemed kind of incomplete to me--like what happened to the rest of the band? I thought she was pretty good, but I was taken aback again towards the middle of the set when she would start playing a song and then stop because she forgot how it went. She did that about three times and I'm thinking to myself, "is that OK to do now?" She had just opened her web site and I e-mailed her asking about the stopping and starting and she sent back a humorous apology. I had really never seen anything like that. The headliners were obviously Magnetic Fields whose lead singer sounds like the guy from the Crash Test Dummies and they had no drummer--just cello, piano, guitar and bass if I remember correctly and the crowd really dug them, but the music was very somber and morose. In any event, who would have known that less than a year later, Barbara's label mate, Liz Phair, who also played solo strumming an electric guitar and stopping when she forgot songs, would reawaken my love of music. I've seen Barbara mentioned on this list but I don't really have a sense if she's generally liked or not. I know she's said some unkind things about Liz, but I'm just referring to her music. Finally, what happened to that girl who tried to put together the SoCal SS listers to see a show at the last minute in Santa Barbara? - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:05:22 PDT From: "M.L.Magdalene" Subject: White Rabbit >hey MrE: "....we got-ta get you a wo-maannnn.... >and when we're through with you.... we'll get m-........" ok, >that's >enough....(i'm sorry--i couldn't resist) >....if it's all the same witchu, could we 'unget' me a woman...or > >two...and when we're through... So woman...are the cause for all this crass shit you've been posting? Like...you have so many woman flocking around CRAVING your crass nature that you just can't deal with yourself anymore? >And, even though everyone is sick of hearing what songs Liz should >cover, >I >heard one today that would suit her "deep" voice- "Joey" by Concrete > >Blonde. Am I right? Am I right? Brilliantly right. Good call. >oh yeah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah stupid dog ate my > >icecream bar blah blah blah blah $#!@#&* blah blah blah blah hospital > >blah blah blah surgery blah blah blah blah blah jury duty blah blah blah > >blah blah blah blah blah party time! Was that really necessary? Marlie wondered: >I don't know if I would try LSD. I would want to only if I didn't have to > >deal with any consequences afterwards. I would want to know what it >feels >like, I guess. consequences? I've never known anyone that did it once and was just flat out fuct after that. I mean..i know people who do it ALL THE TIME(not that i'm promoting that or anything)and aren't even flat out fucked. Describing what it feels like i would have to say is damn near impossible due to the fact that everyones trip is different. >Food for thought: >"Liz Phair is a lot like hot dogs, except in a good way." Did i just totally and completely miss someting?? Trying to get through all the digests with as few posts as possible(but it's not that easy), M _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:08:05 -0700 From: MrE Subject: hot buns in the summertime... >It's Nude Recreation Week let's all do our very best to uphold this fine amerikan tradition. ~~ and so it was, that on the day but just prior to the one in which we are now experiencing, in an exotic, distant land known far and wide as the county of orange, a locale reknowned for such luminaries as marshall applewhite and dickie mouse, should one have journeyed across the tundra and through the swampland into the very bowels of this particular hell, one would have found oneself in the midst of something dark, forboding and mysterious...actually hot, dusty and loud ring much closer to true. and sleater-kinney proved their right to stardom once again with a set that included four new tunes from what will most likely be a soon and new release...should they not self destruct...and even corin rocked a little which as a pleasant departure from her 'i am not moving' stance...rocket rocked as well, but most of the days acts were bordering boredom...with one exceptional exception that i hope some one can help me out with since no one introduced anyone...there was one very very high and extreme energy group that did what amounted to on forty five plus minute tune...non-english...dreads...way noisy...had on axle's spandex...perhaps jamacan...help! please chose from the following: the get up kids apples in stereo mike watt and the black gang the boredoms will oldham first to correctl;y name this extraordinary group will receive the absolutly finest nothing available anywhere. so call now...operators are standing by... and...which one of you 'states' lays claim to sunny day? you ought to be ashamed...i'm sure there are laws against exporting generic, bland wanna be bangers... and a special note to the illustrious thurston moore, a genius in possession of a great deal of my own respect as well as the admiration of many a noise freak. dear thurston: many many apologies for leaving early in your set, but in as much as i had had to bare with the excess of sunny day's way long set just prior to yours, i had already reached delirium when you launched into the fifteen minute history of your guitars...which i am totally sure would have been fascinating on vh1's 'behind the music', but under the circumstances proved only to enable in near inducement of a coma...you go sir! the crispy MrE - -- "Where'd you get these ideas?" Charlie Manson responding to Geraldo Rivera's insistence upon Charlie's evilness... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:14:52 -0400 From: "Brian P. Falk" Subject: 2 things 1. i have been trying for a couple of weeks to find list people who will be in europe while my friend dave and i are there. we only have 9 days so here's where we'll be and when. roughly: - -sat 7/10 thru mon 7/12- london. - -tues 7/13 thru thurs 7/15- paris. during bastille day! how cool is that? - -fri 7/16 til really early on sunday 7/18(allnighter)- amsterdam. lookout... one more time, i really hope someone will be able to meet us over there somewhere. i say this a lot, but once again, it's always so much fun to meet fellow fans. i have never been let down once(even though tommyk7 turns and runs whenever he finds out i'm around), and everyone out there who's met me knows i can hold up my end of the conversation. and that doesn't even take into account my little buddy who they call "high gear." if i call it "european lizphest" will that help? cmon, last call. if you're there now or will be, get in touch. you won't regret it. 2. in the absence of concert reviews, or juicy gossip like liz'z dad giving clues about a new album, i really like reading who people like to listen to besides liz phair. of course a lot of the same names keep coming up, and they are mostly all good to me, but i want to throw out one i haven't seen. in particular, SOMEBODY OUT THERE BESIDES ME MUST ALSO AGREE THAT FREAKIN ALICE DONUT IS WHAT ALL THE GREAT 2ND GENERATION PUNK OF THE MID 80'S SHOULD HAVE EVOLVED INTO BUT DIDN'T!!!! somewhere around 88, 89 it all turned to lame-ass grunge and started smoking too much pot, and then after awhile that wasn't fun any more, so now we're bootin junk and getting reeeeeaaaaallllly slow and "seminal (not namin names)," and meanwhile this wonderful band kicked out album after great album from 89 to 95 and hardly anyone outside nyc even knows they ever existed. tomas antona, who wrote and sang has a bizarro weird-al-sounding voice that takes some getting used to, but when you read the lyrics (which they were almost always nice enough to include) you will see he preceded our heroine in his brilliant use of metaphor and the ability to call up real life situations and emotions- though unlike liz'z they were most often humorous and/or disturbing. and just like you don't have to be a girl to appreciate what liz phair is saying to us, you don't have to be an aging 80's punk to enjoy this stuff. if you like peculiar (though thankfully not improvisational- phish makes me puke) hard rock arrangements, appreciate good writing and have a sense of humor, this is really good stuff. well, to me it is anyway. and the best part is that if you ever see him in person, tomas antona is really really tall and handsome, though i am proud to say i enjoyed his music long before i figured out what a hot stud he is. of course that fact notwithstanding, i will always remember the "unspeakable pleasure" of craning my neck to see what was at the top of those bare legs protruding from his trenchcoat the first time i saw them live. it was in april as i recall. mmmmm... i'm with you katie. and i can't wait to hear from you again. thinking twice, and then hitting send, - -brian- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 02:13:04 GMT From: May Queen Subject: sessions at west 54th i was so distraught b/c we had a lyle lovett special in CA! Hooray. After staying up to the wee hours of morning i was shocked to find Julia Roberts hidious ex lover on my television (no offense to his fans=) ) Well anyways my fav. albums so far from 99 are...... 1) Stereo Type A (Cibo Matto) 2) Up Up Up Up Up Up (Ani Difranco) 3) Central Reservation (Beth Orton) 4) Schizophonic (Geri Halliwell) 5) Mirrorball (Sarah McLachlan) 6) Bury The Hatchet (The Cranberries) What I am seriously looking forward to for this year....... _________________________________________________________________ Tori Amos (2 cd) Joan Osborne Tracy Bonhem Poe (Hopefully) Nina Gordon Veruca Salt - Nina Jill Sobule (Hopefully) nathan _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:33:09 -0400 (EDT) From: clewis@rpm.com Subject: a reply to Katie R's reply > clewis wrote: > >>As far as I'm concerned, women who habitually pick out these sorts of > men forfeit their right to bitch. << > charles, i took this comment very differently the first time i read it. > if i am correct, you are trying to say that women who are attracted to > the typical 'bad guy' persona, > are 'doing it to themselves.' > and have no to right to complain when these disrespectful men treat them > in a way other than they would like. > you may have a point here..... That's what I've been trying to get at. I wouldn't *ever* suggest that the legions of women (..and men) out there who have been the victims of domestic abuse have somehow asked for, much less deserved, what has happened to them. My point revolves around the specific group of women who seem to be attracted to the sorts of men who have historically turned out to be complete trolls to both themselves and their friends. My issue comes when these women blame men in *general* when their choice in a mate ends up being ...surprise... a troll. The point of my original message was that these kinds of behaviors and attitudes were the worst kind of cliched, juvenille and weak thinking. There's a tragic irony in the idea that blanket indictments of men in general based on these self-nullifying behaviors can be passed off as some sort of positive form of empowerment. The truth is that these sorts of statements and attitudes do more to trivialize women than most things we men can come up with. My hope was (and is) that the women on this list who had shown contempt and disappointment for the male gender as a whole might take a deeper look at a really complex question - much as I believe Liz has done in her music, if in a somewhat oblique way. > there is a very distinct difference, in my opinion, between the girl > down the street with low self-esteem who conitnually dates guys who hurt > her and a woman in a seriously abusive relationship. I couldn't agree more. > last semester, my school had The Clothesline Project displayed for a > day: t-shirts are made by victims, or friends/family members of victims > who have experienced physical/sexual violence. I helped out with an identical project when I was in college. OK - we've probably worked this topic into the ground. CHL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:41:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Poetries, dreams and sodas Liz Phair [minimalist] Poetry Contest managed by Mark at: http://musicmark.webjump.com/ This is an awesome idea and only six entries?! Come on people! Let your imaginations go wild! Give it a try! Oh well, lately, I've had this really strange dream. Keeps coming back to me about every nite practically. Liz has this huge hit song that appeared on a movie soundtrack, not on an album, movie soundtrack. What's so strange about this? It's more like a piano song and it was called, "I'm Survivor." Ohhhkk...like the other dream I thought was really strange. Walk into my old English class to see Liz's name on the board cuz that would be our lesson for the day. Turns out that the teacher couldn't give the lesson to my satisfaction that I took over and talked about Liz. *Dream on Katie Lynne.* What would you teach to an English class about Liz anyways? Her lyrics? Style of how she writes her songs? Hmmm... Oh yeah...I know there's some Hole fans on this list too. They've canceled their dates for Lilith. Have fun everyone who will be catching Lilith this year. Katie ();) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 99 01:04:31 PDT From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: Sgt. Jase's Lonely Hearts Club Hello Lovely Digesters (more accurate to say Support Systemers, I guess, as not everyone's a Digester), I'm proud of myself for accomplishing at least one thing over this long holiday weekend: I finally caught up on all my Digests (about 2 weeks' worth). Well worth the time! I really enjoyed all the intelligent debate/discussion of Johnny Feelgood, why men/women relate to Liz's work, and gender issues in general. Special thanks to Sandra, John, and CHL for your honest, well-worded posts (which I printed out, they were so good). Sandra, your take on Johnny Feelgood was especially stunning to me -- it said almost exactly how I feel about my own JF, and why. I don't feel so alone in the world anymore. And speaking of not being alone in the world, are all of us Support Systemers dealing with bad relationships right now? Seems like an epidemic! Seriously, it really helped me to read through the above posts, as well as other people's tales of lost love... and then also read some hilarious stuff, especially from MrE. Therapy indeed. Puts things into perspective. We should all take this phrase to heart: "This too shall pass," realize that better things lie ahead, and listen to some Liz to help ease us through. I feel better already. Nicole, Chipko, and others going through similar circumstances... here's something I've realized and am beginning to accept: Know that you are a good person, and though you may desperately want to continue to share your heart and mind with someone you care about, you can't force the other person to accept this from you. No one can change another person's mind except that person himself/herself. It's not easy to accept this, but it's the first step in healing. Re: Chicago Liz Phest -- a big thank-you to Allison for stepping up to take over last-minute plans. Good luck! I'm sincerely sorry I had to bow out, and that I won't even be attending. For those of you who do go, please post your stories! And that's enough from me. Hurricane Cindy frightening my friends right the hell away. NP: just the hum of the computer. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 22:18:40 -0700 From: "Stephanie Morris" Subject: Session this For Sessions @ W54th, I think it all depends on where you live... In NoCal, we had Lyle Lovett, I think. No Liz. I really love the cohesiveness they have going on there. :-| Just got back from seeing "Summer of Sam"- not bad, but a bit long. Also, not to sound like someone's preachy grandma, but there was so much sex in this movie. Some of it illustrated people's lives and sort of enhanced (!!?!!) their characters, but in general it was not really necessary. As usual, not much Liz content. I loaned a friend EIG and am starting to miss it. NP: Lovelines ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #197 ************************************