From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #194 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, July 3 1999 Volume 02 : Number 194 Today's Subjects: ----------------- spelunking ["MrE" ] AngelLieb ["MrE" ] best of the first half [michael webster ] Spin ["Sally Mae" ] b-day [Exile217@aol.com] Random responses [Mike Connolly ] Phworrrrrrr Patti [Chipko Arnold ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Another self-indulgent life soundtrack ["John A. Johnson" ] Natalie Imbruglia / Torn [Catherine Lewis ] Best of the year [Matt Schulz ] Re: First half [Katie Lynne ] i'm posting - that's a subject [Katie Brown ] Re: refers to coke [Amber ] stuff ["dana polachowski" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 22:51:26 -0700 From: "MrE" Subject: spelunking liz phair left coast news: >and as promised, we regard to anything concerning myself that >you may have mentioned, ...should have read: and as promised, with regard to anything concerning myself that you may have mentioned: >Will the men who are "just as lonely.... silently hopeful.. " come out from hiding? ...what..and leave the all the comforts of secluded cave dwelling? >2. Aimee Mann >5. Michael Penn if you are a lost angel, you can find aimee mann and michael penn playing the 'largo' most any week...haven't checked it out myself...too far from the cave... >I saw GREEN DAY!! ...i saw green day...would do it again. is something wrong with me is something wrong with you i wish i really knew really knew really knew. sorry...not green day...just hadda do it... >>NP: My wooden spoon on Mr.E's ass! >ok, enough with the visuals! ...wooden? does it have to be wooden? > [ ] Asian, Pacific Islander, Eskimo, or OTHER. >What the hell is an Other? that would be...awe phucit... an other MrE ~~ "The sushi looks marvelous," I tell her soothingly. ...Patrick Bateman ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:04:50 -0700 From: "MrE" Subject: AngelLieb anyone seen AngelLieb? "The sushi looks marvelous," I tell her soothingly. ...Patrick Bateman ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 00:06:01 PDT From: michael webster Subject: best of the first half Hey, As for the best albums of the first half, i've only bought two albums this year. It just so happens that they both really kick ass. The first album i picked up, on the recommendation of fellow list members, was The Hot Rock by Sleater Kinney. The other album, which is pretty much all i listen to as of late, is Central Reservation by Beth Orton. I can't really say what is the best album of the year considering i've only really listened to two albums, but i really can't see many albums better then these two out there now. Later, Mike _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 00:45:36 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Spin Hey Mr.E/Momus, in the latest Spin is there an email from a certain Australian named Sally in it defending Hole after the unfair bad review they got in the last issue? Anyway I'm hoping to find Spin here tomorrow, that's if it has come here yet! And re: fav album so far this year, I agree with Paige, Unauthorized biography of Reinhold Messner kicks arse (But I am very biased towards Ben Folds Five) and also possibly Without You I'm Nothing by Placebo, thats if it was released this year (was it?)! Sampai Nanti (Indonesian= seeya later) Sally "No other box I choose to use" Every me, Every you Placebo *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 04:15:32 EDT From: Exile217@aol.com Subject: b-day >>On a side note, it's Liz's dad's birthday. He call's her Lizzy.....<< Was it june 30 or july 1? thought this might be a neat coincidence because my dad's birthday was june 30. liz b. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 05:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Connolly Subject: Random responses > From: Craig King > > What does everyone think are > the best albums of 1999 so far? For me there > are only a few albums which I think are any > good. I agree with your sentiment, Craig, if not with your choices. Seems to have been quite the dearth of "good" music. 1. Ben Folds Five _The Unauthorized Biography of Reinhold Messner_ 2. Fleming & John _The Way We Are_ 3. Owsley _Owsley_ 4. S-K _The Hot Rock_ (Thanks to Mr. Long for the memory jog on this one.) These are found on my CD player and in my car more than any other new releases lately. And I find it interesting that the principles of the first three choices all know each other and have worked together. As for looking forward to some releases, I'm generally in the dark about what is going to be released in the near future, so I got nuttin' for this one. Nicole, for a broken heart try listening to Emerson Lake & Palmer, the entire "Karn Evil 9" suite from _Brain Salad Surgery_, or the three album live set if you can find it. Always worked for me, twenty years ago. And for you Left Coasters who may or may not get to see LP this year, don't forget about the IPO Festival in LA at the end of July. And the G0-Go's reunion tour!!! NP: Cibo Matto _Stereo Type A_ === Mikey C Va Beach "!!!!" - -no one in particular _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 05:48:34 PDT From: Chipko Arnold Subject: Phworrrrrrr Patti Last night (Thursday) Patti Smith played in London and BLIMEY!!!!!! I was slightly nervous about seeing such a legend as i'd heard it can be a hit and miss affair, but last night no misses. She's 53 now and rocks better than any young upstart and still looking good, possibly better than before. When she took her footwear off for Dancing Barefoot and wave her sock around it was SO sexy! REALLY. Her voice is top rate and she was clearly enjoying every minute. From the opener Piss Factory to the Horses/Gloria finale there was no stopping her. She made the hairs on my arms bristle and had me screaming "people have the power" along with her and when she sang that EVERYONE believed she did. The only let down was that Frederick and Break It Up weren't played, but that's just nit-picking considering how awesome Free Money was. Oh Patti, how could i have doubted you. Go get all her records now, or at least Horses. You know it makes sense. On a lighter note... >From: Valerie Barry > >>i was FORCED to cuddle a Michigan native for warmth >chipko, as i recall from a few months ago, you have no problem with >cuddling michgan natives...:-) I have only cuddled one Michigan native and that was on the 3rd July 1998, so you see i'm a late starter. You're right though, there was no problem cuddling her, it happened very easily and was wonderful. I found out recently that she was at the Grand Rapids Liz show recently! Spooky, didn't know she was a fan at the time. If anyone is going to see Ani in Michigan, shout "Mintcake" at some point just to see if if my cuddlee is there. *sigh* AND, yes us guys get screwed in love as well. I've been completely crushed recently by someone who one day said i was the best thing in their life and the next day dumped me. Now i'm not even allowed to have any contact with her as she hates me so much. I still don't know what went wrong, or where the hate has come from. Once again i trusted the wrong one and again find myself having to pick up the pieces, now knowing that i'm too old to have any hope of finding a good relationship being the holder of a shyness that is criminally vulger and realising that my judgement for trust is way off base. It's not just guys who do the heart breaking. Both genders have the ability to destroy the souls of the other (or even the same). Love is nothing. There are very few angels and millions of magpies. Worst of all, i can't listen to music that i love because of the memories that come with it. So take it from a quiet, shy, caring guy, you women can be evil. It works both ways. Just once i'd like to get it right and find a find some happiness, not in this lifetime i guess. np: the sound of tears falling "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 09:29:08 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "April Haitsuka" Subject: Re: WCSE Sessions >Allright - now that I have my WCSE Sessions CDs in hand (Thanks Ken!) >- I've got a reason to post. First off - I love the non-electronic >version of "What Makes you Happy." does anyone else feel the same way? > It sounds so much more deep and not so like, peppy and produced The original version of "What Make You Happy" has way too much going on. It drowns out the lyrics and brings down the catchy-hook element. The bridge especially, with the horns and the big drum sound. Assuming this was an early Scott Litt production, the Brad Wood production by comparison is more in sync with Liz's songwriting style. A lot of production? Yes. But it enhances the song with a brighter, more focused sound. And I love the main guitar lick that runs throughout. >Which brings me to my next observation. On Disc 2 when it's the 1997 >wcse running order - I don't know what they could have found wrong with >that! Before I had these CDs I thought WCSE was OK, not as great as >Exile of course but still good Liz music. But now that I've listened >to the 1997 version - it just makes me wonder why all these good songs >were cut! Big reason no. 1 was that Capitol wanted some radio-friendly cuts to promote as singles. Of the original running order, only "Ride" comes close to being radio-friendly, in that it's got a traditional song structure and has a catchy, sing-along chorus. But the lyrics are really too oblique for the average radio listener. Presumably quite a few songs had to be cut to make room for the singles, plus Liz was producing more tracks on her own ("Love is Nothing" and "Shitloads of Money"). Of the Scott Litt contributions that made the final cut, most of the songs have minimal production ("Perfect World," "Girls' Room," and "Fantasize"), or they're completely different from the original Liz sound ("Headache," "Baby Got Going"). The other songs that were cut from the 1997 running order had a very thick, fuzzy guitar sound (I'm thinking of "Tell Me You Like Me" and "Bars of the Bed") that buries Liz's vocals, or was a little too country for my liking ("Waiting for the Bird"). I like hearing all the cut songs, because they're all still good songs. I'd like to see "Blood Keeper" on a future album. But I'd like to hear them produced by someone who meshes better with Liz. April ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 09:31:38 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "katie roper" Subject: my opinionhello everyone!! i have very little time to write this morning, so i must say this in as few words as possible. sandra wrote: >>What is it that guys--hetero guys--get out of her songs? I mean PERSONALLY? Musicianship and beauty aside ... I'm just talking about the lyrics and the songs' messages.<< in response to this question, many male list members have oh so long and painfully written out a so-called justification or explanation for their 'interest' in liz. for instance: TAD wrote: >>What the person that was singing looked like never did and never does entire my mind. The fact that she turned out to be very pleasing to look at is nice,but not a requirement.<< hmmm........isn't this interesting to read....... doesn't sound like the same tad who wrote me a long detailed email back in march/april about the millersville show and liz's see-through pink top...... please. quit while you are ahead. liz's beauty is something that effects us all.........consciously or subconsciously. and on a different note, this line is just disgusting..... clewis wrote: >>As far as I'm concerned, women who habitually pick out these sorts of men forfeit their right to bitch. << do you have any idea, any clue at all, what the fuck you are talking about?!?!? apparently not. or you wouldn't have made such a ignorant and simple-minded remark such as this. love to sit around and chat but now i have like thirty minutes to shower, dress, and drive to work...... - --- "a woman needs a man, like a fish needs a bicycle." U2 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 09:39:26 -0400 From: "John A. Johnson" Subject: Another self-indulgent life soundtrack I've been working on this a while. This is simply music I've listened to a lot. Only some of the songs are actually about my life. As if anyone cares either way. I'm off to Rome now for a week. I'll be looking forward to the pile of Digests when I return ... Life Soundtrack A non-definitive, non-exhaustive list of the music I listened to the most over the years. John A. Johnson Preadolescence Beatles - I Want To Hold Your Hand Beatles - Please Please Me Beatles - She Loves You (still have the Swan Records 45, but it is totally fubar) Beatles - Twist and Shout Chubby Checker - Let's Twist Again Junior High Beach Boys - Good Vibrations "When I look in her eyes / She goes with me to a blossom world." Beatles - And I Love Her Beatles - Eight Days a Week Beatles - If I Fell Beatles - You've Got to Hide Your Love Away (I still play this on my guitar a lot) Doors - Hello, I Love You The Love Generation - Montage from How Sweet It Is Monkees -Early Morning Blues and Greens Monkees - Shades of Gray Tommy James and the Shondells - Crimson and Clover The Turtles - Elenore Simon and Garfunkel - entire Sounds of Silence album High School April Wine - Could Have Been A Lady Badfinger - entire Straight Up album Beatles - entire Abbey Road album (I did the "You Never Give Me Your Money" medley for my last public piano recital) Beatles - entire Beatles (white) album Beatles - entire Sergeant Pepper album Crosby, Stills, & Nash - Suite Judy Blue Eyes Doors - Roadhouse Blues Guess Who - No Time Guess Who - Do You Miss Me, Darlin' Jefferson Airplane - Somebody to Love John Lennon / Plastic Ono Band - Love King Crimson - Court of the Crimson King King Crimson - 21st Century Schizoid Man Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin Mothers of Invention - entire We're Only In It for the Money album Mothers of Invention - entire Fillmore East June 1971 album Nazz - Forget All About It Nazz - Hello, It's Me New York Rock and Roll Ensemble - Beside You Rolling Stones - Wild Horses The Who - entire Tommy album College David Bowie - Entire Ziggy Stardust Album, esp. Rock 'n' Roll Suicide Chicago - Beginnings Chicago - Colour My World Chicago - Wake Up Sunshine Jim Croce - Operator Gerry Rafferty - Whatever's Written in Your Heart Jethro Tull - We Used to Know Joni Mitchell - River Joni Mitchell - The Last Time I Saw Richard Procol Harum - Still There'll Be More Renaissance - entire Ashes are Burning album (great listening while under the influence of nitrous) Bruce Springsteen - 4th of July, Asbury Park Bruce Springsteen - Rosalita Steely Dan - entire Can't Buy Me a Thrill album Steely Dan - entire Countdown to Ecstasy album Steely Dan - entire Katy Lied album Steely Dan - Rikki Don't Lose that Number Steve Miller Band - Love's Riddle Cat Stevens - entire Tea for the Tillerman album Cat Stevens - entire Teaser and the Firecat album Todd Rundgren - Be Nice to Me Todd Rundgren - Believe in Me Todd Rundgren - entire Something/Anything Album The Who - entire Who's Next album Graduate School (had little time for music) Red Shoes, and Alison Cars - entire The Cars album Cars - entire Candy-O album Elvis Costello - entire My Aim is True album, especially Welcome to the Working Week, Red Shoes, Alison Crack the Sky - Hot Razors in My Heart These Days ... Tori Amos Ani Difranco Cranberries Lisa Loeb Mannheim Steamroller Alanis Morissette Nirvana Pearl Jam Liz Phair R.E.M. Soundgarden ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:34:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Lewis Subject: Natalie Imbruglia / Torn liz b. wrote: > across the natalie imbruglia video "torn." this song was not > one that i'd paid particular attention to up until now. just thought it was > a pleasant, pop-py, girl song. her expressions in the video totally grabbed > me and made me more aware of the lyrics. > ***I'm all out of faith, This is how I feel. . . You're a little late, I'm > already torn** > this just totally struck me and the only thing i could compare it too is how > some liz lyrics can make you (me) feel. does anyone else out there listen to > her or have an opinion on other natalie imbruglia songs? I really hate to jump up on my soapbox about this song, again, but since I am forever in my crusade for little indie bands who have been continually fucked over, here I go again: Natalie Imbruglia did NOT write this song. It was NOT intended to be a "pleasant, poppy girl song". The song was written by the band Ednaswap and can be found on their album _Wacko Magneto_ (which is, in my opinion, a near-perfect album). The song is dark, angst-filled, and makes the Imbruglia version actually sound HAPPY. (A different version of the song can also be found on their debut album _Ednaswap_, which is hideously out of print, and you probably won't have much luck finding it.) I have made this offer before and have flaked on it, but this time I really mean it: if people want to hear an MP3 of the Ednaswap version, I'd be glad to toss it up on my webpage for downloading. (This will be more difficult now, because I'm at home and don't have as much access to the necessary equipment for these things, but I'll see if the guy-at-work-who's-a-Liz-phan will help.... if, that is, he's forgiven me for the hot dog comment.) Anyway: as far as your question, I'm not really that familiar with Natalie Imbruglia's work, other than her other radio song ("Wishin' I Was There With You" or something like that).... ....anyway, the lyrics go something like "But when the morning comes / don't say you love me / don't say you need me / I really don't think it's fair / Boy, I'm not so dumb / But when you leave me / I'll be wishing I, wishing I, wishing I was there with you." And that just strikes me as VERY un-Liz-like. There's more to the song than that (about how she thinks he's cheating on her but he denies it, etc.), but the main thrust of the song seems to be more along the lines of "You're a jerk but I still want to be with you." As someone who's been in that situation (all too many times, truth be told), I _can_ totally see where she's coming from, and I can identify with the lyrics and with the feeling behind them. But what annoys me about the song is the fact that she's _celebrating_ those feelings, and sounds happy about it. Contrast that with Liz Phair, who seems to be a much more _empowered_ woman as far as relationships are concerned. I can't, off the top of my head while working on a big project here, come up with a Liz Phair song that completely captures the "dating-a-jerk-but-still- wants-to-be-with-him" feeling.... but the song 'Go West' comes to mind: 'And I'm not looking forward to missing you / But I must have something better to do / I've got to tear my life apart / And go west....' Maybe that isn't completely comparable, but there is the 'I'm not looking forward to following through / But it's better than always running back into you' motif. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Liz Phair and Natalie Imbruglia both seem to bitch about / complain about / describe their relationships (granted, I don't know a whole lot about Natalie I.'s songs other than the few I've heard), but Natalie I. seems content just to sit back and accept a less-than-ideal situation, whereas Liz Phair actually gets up and does something about it. My $.02, Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Schulz Subject: Best of the year Hands down, the best disc of the year so far is Wilco's Summer Teeth. Its got something for everyone and there isn't a bad song on the disc. And yeah, I think it has been a slow year as far as great releases go. Kelly Willis' disc is probably the second-best although I forget whether that came out in late 1998 or early 1999. What am I looking forward to? How about the rumored-to-be-coming Liz disc? That would be a good start. Matt The Glory of Liz Phair http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/5064/ === Matt Schulz schulz52@yahoo.com - ----------- "I believe in the Church of Baseball" - -- Annie Savoy, Bull Durham _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:12:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: Re: First half Craig wrote: "As the first half of 1999 has come to a close, I have a little survey question for everyone. What does everyone think are the best albums of 1999 so far?" Wow! Great idea! Even though I've bought so many cds this year already, I've noticed they're mostly old cds. Anyhoo...in no particular order: 1. Echo - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers 2. Bury the Hatchet - The Cranberries 3. Ben Lee - Breathing Tornados 4. Marie Wilson - Real Life 5. Austin Powers 2 Soundtrack Cds I'm looking forward to are Meredith Brooks, a friend told me she's looking to go back to the studios. Also Joan Osborne and Paula Cole. Thanks to Jase and Paige for the info about the possible Aimee Mann and Tori Amos releases to look forward to! Jaime wrote: "Liz should do a song about the fourth of July-- its my fave holiday." Bars of the Bed? Singing the Star Spangled Banner in the backgrounds? Have a happy Fourth Americans and drive safely. Katie ();) NP: Exile in Madison Love the cover Craig! hehe =) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 12:39:33 PDT From: Katie Brown Subject: i'm posting - that's a subject everyone keep posting good break-up broken heart type tunes. i dumped the man tuesday and i still can't breathe normally. on the other hand, i have had quite a support-system-y few weeks; got a call from Jorge last week, then Ruthie came to visit last weekend, got an awesome link from Lani, Lani you should post that here, jackie rocks - and hopefully I will see Justin soon if he doesn't hate me... what is the Boston-women-movie that sandra boncek posted about? hey nicole, me and this city miss you... later all katiebrown _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:59:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Amber Subject: Re: refers to coke Jamie, when does she refer to coke. I guess I've completely missed that one. or maybe I'm forgetting it. Oh, and pills are still pretty big in the 90's. Remember the "date rape drug" Rohypnol, I'm not sure if that's spelled right, we always called them "hippies". Ok enough babbling, I was just wondering. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:27:02 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: stuff > And my lab partner is taking me out to a nice restraunt tomarow. Things > couldn't be better all you Phair lovers. > > On a side note, it's Liz's dad's birthday. He call's her Lizzy..... you know, i think i hate you .... >We should start a grassroots movement....... > > Anybody with me? > i am.... here in SoCal the cell phones are--what--mandatory(?) in fact, me and my friend craig, when we're drivin' around and we see someone drivin'-and-talkin', we pull up to 'em at the light, roll down the window, lean over and yell really loud: "GET OFF THE PHONE!!!" it's a blast.... "....runnin' from the pigs, the fuzz, the cops, the heat...." > And dp- yes!- I saw "Eating" the movie, a few years back, it had gotten rave > reviews, and it said that it was funny, but I didn't think it was funny. > yeah, that was so weird the way they advertised it.... it was funny only in a "rip-your-heart-out" sort of way, i guess .... i just sat there goin' "holy shit. this is really kind of intense..." (!!) dp ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #194 ************************************