From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #192 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, July 1 1999 Volume 02 : Number 192 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Johnny Feelgood as Mr. Right [clewis@rpm.com] summer of sam ["MrE" ] "venus"! i said "venus"!! ["dana polachowski" ] 60/s music [Craig King ] Safety Issue- pass it along to friends and family [TADude9999@aol.com] WCSE Sessions [Suzanne Walsh ] What more can I say? - #9 Dream [Katie Lynne ] Re: liz mention again. in raygun [John Kim ] a bit of thanks [sandra ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #191 [andoman14 ] wanna trade? [Miz Phair ] On being ancient and Crimson and Clover ["John A. Johnson" ] matador promo with liz [deadgirl@garbage.com] Bisexuality and Liz ["Nicole W." ] my son was 'inmate of the month' at the state prison!-- bumper sticker ["] read carefully, then respond [Danaldj@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 02:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: clewis@rpm.com Subject: Johnny Feelgood as Mr. Right Wow... Posting twice in three days is a record for me. I think the only time I've posted as much was when Liz was actually on tour and I was recollecting some wonderful times. Anyway, to speak to Sandra's reply to my reply... > CHL, almost every point you make is very well taken. I > do want to clarify regarding my interpretation of > Johnny Feelgood. And see, this is what I love about > Liz. We can all see it differently. To me, Johnny > Feelgood isn^t about a ^bad boy.^ It^s about a very > attractive, accomplished, successful person who isn^t > really a *good* person inside but somehow digs out the > best intellectual parts of me, forcing me to challenge > myself in new and different ways unlike anyone has > ever done. I want to please him, and by extension, I > please myself--this is how he makes me feel ^strangely > good about myself.^ In a twisted way he makes me > improve myself. He^s totally wrong for me in a > fundamental way, but good for me in a lot of little > ways. (Granted, I am thinking of a *specific* > person--as if it weren^t obvious.) But it^s not the > done-to-death hurt-me-I-like-it theme. Forums like this one *are* very interesting - they sort of highlight the divergence of art and artist. If this list has 980 people on it (..and I'm pulling this number out of thin air), then there are probably at least 981 views of any given Liz song. What's more, there are a few articles (I'm waay too tired to track 'em down at the moment) where Liz herself actually speaks about her motivations behind writing the song. If I remember, the story (approximately) goes that she was absolutely sick of the completely passive way in which men approached women at Oberlin. There was mention of how specific permission was asked for every hug, kiss, etc, and how she had spent some time with a guy in Chicago (I'm getting hazy on the details) who was the complete opposite - a real take-charge, rough-n-tumble sort of guy - the complete opposite of the excessively sensitive men she had spent four years around. In a word, he really swept her off her feet. This might have been the article where she goes on about the alpha male, but I've got less than 50% confidence in my memory at that point... I'm sure someone will correct me! In some part because of this article, I always sort of honed in on the contradiction between having this notion of the guy she wanted and yet being excited by a man who was the complete opposite. The song always struck me as an investigation of that sort of duality - and the liberation that comes from it. Kind of post-feminist, I guess. Then again, it's also just a great song... The thing is, though, that regardless of what even Liz herself says about the song, what *you* take away from it is really the point. There's not really a single definitive answer. For all we know, Liz could be completely bullshitting in half of her articles. I wouldn't put it past her - she's no dummy. > Can I meet some more of these men? Please? ; ) > Also, I never said ^men can^t understand Liz^--I said > ^I have trouble believing that men get what Liz is > saying as well as girls can^--but I am a living, > breathing, always-learning woman who is getting older > more and more quickly with each passing year, or so it > seems ... I wanted to hear from the kind of men I > hadn^t ever heard from before. And I was ready to > listen and read whatever was said. In my life I am a > solo Phan--this list is, pathetically, all I have for > sharing Liz. I am thrilled that so many men wrote and > said positive things--either to SupSys or privately. I guess the point I most wanted to get across in my last post is that the broad characterizations of men that seem waaay too prevalent (at least for my tastes) are an easy excuse not to try to see things from our (male) perspective. Sandra - the truth is that I could completely echo pretty much everything you wrote above. I'm 24, I live in a suburb far from friends and family, and I seem to be rapidly becoming a poster-child for alienation in the '90s. It's safe to say that I'm not surrounded by other Liz fans. I'd love nothing more than to meet a brilliant, wonderful woman with whom I could share enough kismit to find some mutual degree of understanding and love. If she were a phan, that's worth double points.. In the mean time, though, I'm part of a large and quiet group of guys who are just as frustrated, just as lonely and just as silently hopeful as so many women seem to be. Our imperfections are just as complex and bizarre, and our basic decency is just as intact. Sometimes both genders need a reminder of this... I just want to urge all of you smart and interesting women out there *NOT* to become bitter, but instead to try to remember that there *ARE* good guys out here, too!! OK - that's suitably corny to finish off the post. CHL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:17:42 -0700 From: "MrE" Subject: summer of sam liz phair left coast news: > My last thought-of-the-day is about being old. >Being old is even worse than being a man. ...and being an old man, that's, well, i'm just laughing my silly cracker ass off...waitwaitwait...you forgot wealthy, caucasian, southern and republican! teeheeheehahaha! no, waitwaitwait, and christian!!! and anally penile!!!! oh shit, stop it...i can't take no more!!! hahahawoohooo!!!!!!! cuts both ways... >...bleh ...and now for an opposing opinion, Momus: 'blew' thank you and good night... MrE "The sushi looks marvelous," I tell her soothingly. ...Patrick Bateman ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 02:06:30 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: "venus"! i said "venus"!! > dear dana... > or to whomever > "The sushi looks marvelous," I tell her soothingly. > ...Patrick Bateman which one? 'cause i ain't no lady.... and i *hate* sushi... and i'm glad you got that i was kidding.... and i don't wanna spank you... so i just wanna say that i really enjoyed all the posts sent in by the guys and that one that jase dug up.... very cool. those posts gave *me* shivers.... so, i don't know.... personally i've always known guys who were/are aware and "with it" as far as being able to tune into the womanvibe... god knows they've taught *me* a thing or two. so the "i'm not sure guys get it" thing is a bit odd for me...i know they're around. it all starts to get bad when the great guy/gal doesn't like you back...and so it goes. that's pretty much what is it for *everyone*, right? a reciprocity issue? well, one of 'em.... i wanna keep this short... and, hey, has anyone ever seen the movie called "eating"? it's about women relating to other women and, of course, women relating to......(drumroll).. food. yeah........*fantastic* movie. written and directed by a man. >What >everyone wants is a good liz discussion ? right ? And we are allowed to go >off subject... thank you! well done.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 03:04:15 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Courtney Again (you better get used to it!) Hi, according to Courtney's authorized bio, she didn't go out with Evan Dando so that may have been just a rumour. Mikey C, I read in Recovery magazine (aussie maga) that Ben was in the Semantics and Will Owsley said Ben "plays drums better than he does piano". And also, that email thing, I'm in a better mood w/Chickmail now (I'm getting into my account) BUT they haven't replies to my email of complaint. I'm under 20 years old (as you may have gathered!) and yes, I don't listen to any late 60's-70's music, I'm SORRY!!! But I can't help not growing up in this time or growing up listening to this type of musik (indo for music)!! Byebyebyebye people I'm on holidays from 12 Friday for 2 weeks+ WAHOO!! Sally "I'm sending you this photograph, I swear this one is gonna last and all those other bastards were only practise!" *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 04:23:12 PDT From: DarkSide oftheMoon Subject: special offer MrE sez: >personal attacks can and should be forwarded to MrE@mr-e.net MrE sounds like you've been down this road before..do you get so much hate mail that you have your own domain/site just to handle it all?!? Give 'em hell Momus! Jason quoted: >ani difranco has a great line: >"my cunt is built like a wound that won't heal," Sound like she needs to see her Gyn.....ouch Marlie wondered: >I don't know if I would try LSD. I would want to only if I didn't have to > >deal with any consequences afterwards. I would want to know what it >feels >like, I guess. Consequences..? Like job, family, school, life in general or doya mean acid flashbacks (personally I've never had one)...hang on...who let the elephant in again? geez.. or what? What it feels like...hard to descibe.. Pixie lucked into: >she wrote to tell me that she's working hospital rounds with Jon Phair, MD, >who is very proud of her daughter, but gets heckled left and right for her >lyrics. she said she'll work on getting an autographed t-shirt for me. Can you say black-market-white-babytshirt-dealer? C'mon Pixie hook us all up! Stephanie warned: >Be prepared for a weekend of spaciness and incoherent sentences... it's >fun. >I had the ol' wisdom teeth out 8 years ago (!!) and laughed from the >Vicodin Thats a normal weekend at my house, actually.... I wrote: >And perhaps also Liz lends a lyrical voice of what some women might think >or feel that men *might* not hear so eloquently from women out of their >own mouths. After looking at how this came out typed, I hope everyone understands what I'm saying here...it reads kinda weird.. Jamie asked: >I hope you teeth are feeling better DSotM... Vicodin... good stuff ?? Smoke > >one for me~ Yes, thanks you. Consider it done. Jamie again: >My only comment on this mess is that MrE/Momus does not post to this list >to >start shit. In fact I dont think there are many on this list who do. What >everyone wants is a good liz discussion ? right ? And we are allowed to go >off subject You know, when I first sub'd to this list it was just to get info on Liz. But truthfully, I now look forward to the ongoing lively discussions that this group provides. I mean we all love Liz and talking about her but how much can you say sometimes? The other sidetracks and gouhlash are f'n great. This is classic stuff. Can you see it, years from now, Jase aka Don Pardo voice of SNL...hawking "Best of Support System" on Home Shopping Channel... "Thats right folks for only $19.99 you can own the Best of SS! Starring MrE, Jamie, the Katies, DarkSide oftheMoon, and many, many, more... a film by Ken Lee, guest appearance by Nicole'dirtybastard, musical guest Liz Phair and your host.....Jason Looooooooong! *applause* Ken blipped: >Hello, >New pics and an old Chicago's Subnation article added. Come back and >visit! Well thanks for the 15 second Ad there Ken....jump on in and join the crazyness once in awhile! BTW did you get what I sent you? Of course not cause I haven't sent it yet...psych....but I will Ken. Sandra shared: >In my life I am a solo Phan--this list is, pathetically, all I have for >sharing Liz. Ummm...Thanks....I think? (pathetically? are we that bad?) As far as all the bickering goes, I think the FCC said it best: Federal Communications Part 15: "This device may not cause harmful interference" and "This device must accept any, if received, including interference that may cause undesired operation" 'nuff said NP: Liz Live at the Lounge Axe (thanks again katie!) DarkSide oftheMoon _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 06:27:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: 60/s music >>Besides the Beatles How many of you under 20 listen to music that falls into the late 60's/early 70's timeframe?<< Well, my all time favorite band is The Doors. Does that answer your Q? Seriously though, The Doors are the most amazing band I've ever heard, and Jim Morrison is the greatest frontman to ever grace a stage. Their music is more amazing everytime I listen to it. I've been a mega fan of theirs since Freshman year high school, circa 1991. Also, I am a huge fan of Zeppelin, CCR, Stones, Beates, Kiss, and Rush. So, no, I am not one of those people who just listens to a classic rock station hoping to hear something "cool". Craig "AdRock" NP: Led Zeppelin - Presence _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:16:15 EDT From: TADude9999@aol.com Subject: Safety Issue- pass it along to friends and family Safety Alert > > Your cell phone can be hazardous to your health- if used near a gas pump. > An incident was recently reported where a driver suffered burns and his > car severely damaged when gasoline fumes ignited and exploded while he was > talking on his mobile phone standing near the attendant who was pumping > the gas. > All the electronic devices in gas stations are protected with explosive > containment devices, (intrinsically safe) while cell phones are not. > > CHECK YOUR CELL PHONE'S HANDBOOK! > > Mobile phone makers Motorola, Ericsson, and Nokia, all print cautions in > their user handbooks that warn against mobile phones in "gas stations, > fuel storage sites, and chemical factories." > > Exxon has begun placing "warning stickers" at its gasoline stations. The > threat mobile phones pose to gas stations and their users is primarily the > result of their ability to produce sparks that can be generated by the > high-powered battery inside the phone. > > Please alert your family members to this caution also. TAD Sorry for the non Liz content; I just thought this was important enough to pass along to as many people as possible. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:10:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Suzanne Walsh Subject: WCSE Sessions Allright - now that I have my WCSE Sessions CDs in hand (Thanks Ken!) - - I've got a reason to post. First off - I love the non-electronic version of "What Makes you Happy." does anyone else feel the same way? It sounds so much more deep and not so like, peppy and produced. Not that I don't like the other version, it's just that now that I've heard this one, I don't understand why they used the electronica version on the CD. Which brings me to my next observation. On Disc 2 when it's the 1997 wcse running order - I don't know what they could have found wrong with that! Before I had these CDs I thought WCSE was OK, not as great as Exile of course but still good Liz music. But now that I've listened to the 1997 version - it just makes me wonder why all these good songs were cut! I mean - it may be the way that the CD I have is produced but it sounds so much more raw and deep - just like exile and whip-smart - so much more like the Liz that I love! It makes me kidna sad to think that now that she's completely w/ Capitol, that maybe the exile sound will never come back! I'm kinda goin off here so don't get me wrong - I'll always be a fan and I do think WCSE is a good CD, I just hope she puts some of the other songs I've heard (Blood Keeper, Bars of the BEd, Firewalker, Don't Apologize) on her next CD. I'm done. === The one and only, Suzanne Explain It To Me http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Hall/9429 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie Lynne Subject: What more can I say? - #9 Dream DarkSide oftheMoon wrote: "How many of you under 20 listen to music that falls into the late60's/early 70's timeframe? And I don't mean just listening to it on your classicrock station and going 'yeah thats cool', but actually own the CD?...What got you into it? Parents? Friends? Just heard it and liked it?" Let's see what else do I have? Beatles' solo albums, The Doors, Joni Mitchell, Sandie Shaw, ABBA, Rod Stewart, Bob Dylan, The Byrds, Janis Joplin, The Bee Gees, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. Most I got into cuz of my parents, The Doors cuz of the movie and Tom Petty, well...a good friend of mine. ;) Abba is the only one I got into myself, Mama Mia! Sina wrote: "P.S how many african americans are into Liz?" Uhh...my mom. I'd fall into this category too, but I'm multi-racial. I hate seeing "B" down as my race cuz we're all human right? Color shouldn't make a difference in the world. I've never thought of myself as black though, always said I was multi-racial and where does that come in for race? Ahhh...screwy things. raymond lew: Subject: blah blah blah blah hehe...loved this subliminal messages post! Jaime and Marlie, all other Beatles fan. Keep rocking, Beatles rule. Just flipped in Help! into the VCR yesterday cuz there was nothing on. Time to jet off to work, see Wild Wild West with my fro-bro who just dyed his hair purple. Lovely family. Katie ();) NP: rug shampooer featuring my mother! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:21:15 -0400 (EDT) From: John Kim Subject: Re: liz mention again. in raygun just when you thought the pavement discussion was over: stephen malkmus talks about liz once again in the new raygun with ed furlong on the cover. he is basically talking about how he is copying the way that liz is recording her vocals. so i don't think that he really hates her or anything. he talks about how he is comfortable with the band's fanbase, so no, he probably is not jealous. no. barbara manning, yes, she's probably jealous of liz. very very jealous, but stephen malkmus? no way. he's just a brat. he likes to be bratty, to billy corgan, the stone temple pilots, courtney love, everyone, and i don't think his comments were out of jealousy of liz. i mean, pavement are already touted as the best rock band of the '90's. if pavement wanted to make a record that would sell millions, i'm sure that they would and could do it. they aren't expecting their obtuse melodies and obscure lyrics to be hitmakers. big hug. john kim email: jjk50@columbia.edu aol IM: puppechase ____________________________________________ "i don't remember lying, i don't rememeber lines, i don't remember words, but i don't care, i care, i really don't care." --S.M. reluctant voice of a generation ____________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:48:09 -0700 (PDT) From: sandra Subject: a bit of thanks I want to say a lot, but I have time for only three things: 1. Jase, I will go see that Boston-women-musicians documentary. It sounds excellent. I'll let you know how it is. 2. Thanks, everyone, male and female, for all your posts and private emails. I will not say that 'my faith in men is reborn' or anything like that--I had faith all along. I truly love hearing what you all have to say about these-here Liz-inspired gender issues. Rock on. 3. Teddy, as always, you make me think, and I forever appreciate that. [but I still disagree about divorce song--and that's OK!!!] sandra ps: Jaime, I'll be in Portland this weekend! NP: the chatter of my keyboard as I write and edit and write and edit all ... day ... long. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:03:36 -0400 From: andoman14 Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #191 I have a comment to say about the men can't understand or relate to Liz Phair... Even though I am a new fan and don't have her earlier stuff and I am only a teenager, and I am gay, I want you to realize, that if you only listened to an artist because you understood their feelings, what they were going through, and you could relate to them, then we would listen to totally different things. You can just listen to an artist for their sound, voice, or message. I'm sure lots of you can relate to "Big Tall Man" which is barely about anything. (That was sarcastic.) I mean can't you just listen to an artist. How many of you like Natalie Merchant? She takes on characters for all her songs, and if each is different how can you relate to all. Then you like her for her music. I mean it seems not very thought through to say male fans can't get it into it the way female fans are. And especially gay fans? There is no female in the relationsip, there is no regular sex, there is 2 different sexes doing what most people call sex, though there is gay sex. How is that like gays? Maybe they like guys, that's all. Straights could more relate to this. I just was angered, and I wanted to say my opinion. Now you can all get mad at me and say my weak points, but I'm just a kid. And I haven't lived as much as a 60 year old, but more than some people who are 20, I think. Please respond. Seth ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 14:24:20 EDT From: Biggerd000@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #189 alright in response to sandra_boncek@yahoo.com. well i am a hetero male and this is why i love liz. i have been in a long relationship that has ended in ruins, i find i can relate to alot of what liz says, and i also say to myself "man how could that guy hurt her so bad when she is so fuckin cool", then there are the songs that are just really groovin. i know my explanation is not in depth but i must leave for work in a few minutes. i think it is kinda lame to say that only girls can truly understand, you mean to say a guy has never been hurt in a relationship or felt screwed over. i dotn know it just straight up lame. anway i must go now thank you for readin dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:30:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Lewis Subject: Guys and Liz's music.... Food for thought: "Liz Phair is a lot like hot dogs, except in a good way." Hmmmmmmm. - - Catherine (For the record, that's not a _direct_ quote; it's sort of paraphrased. There was more to it -- something about shivers down the spine -- but the main thrust was a comparison with hot dogs.) (This was based on a conversation with a guy in my office who happens to be a HUGE Liz Phair fan. And he also happens to be a new subscriber to this digest. And I have a hunch that he's going to happen to throttle me when he reads this. :-) - -- "You want me home, but I'm gone all night And we've probably been in some kind of fight...." - Liz Phair, untitled ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:40:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: wanna trade? Hi all! I've been so thrilled with my trading of late, that I'm anxious to procure more Liz. I have a small, but nice collection on her and an even better one on the likes of Tori Amos, Eric Clapton and Pearl Jam, to name a few. If you'd like to share the wealth - and I'm soooo pleased to find that listees do just that around her - please email me privately. If blanks and postage are more your game, I'd gladly do that too. Also, I've just gotten a great Ben Folds Five show, where the group covers Liz's Chopsticks and adds her name to the lyrics of an impromptu song at a Chicago show. So that's on the block too. Thanks for listening. paige- NP: Supernova (I'm soooo into Whip-Smart this week.) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:40:13 -0400 From: "John A. Johnson" Subject: On being ancient and Crimson and Clover When I was younger so much younger than today I never needed anybody's help in any way. But now these days are gone, I'm not so self-assured, Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors. Hey, Support-System is living up to its name. Loved the validating follow-ups to my thoughts about age and music from DarkSide oftheMoon and Sandra. On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:24:18 PDT DarkSide oftheMoon said >Bravo John! You hit the mark. I cannot see myself not liking the music I >listen to now, like the beatles, Liz, u-name-it when i'm say 64..I agree >except for the embarrased part...shit I don't look or act my "age" and am >proud of it! That's fab. I wish didn't feel so self-conscious about my age. Maybe I wouldn't if my wife didn't keep pointing out that everyone is younger than us when we attend shows by Alanis, Liz, and just about anyone else who plays at Penn State. >NP: Neil Young "After the Gold Rush" >"when you dance....oooooooo...I can really love..." Yeah! We used to do that one when I was in a band in college. Oh, for the good old days! and on Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0700 (PDT) sandra said: >Thanks everyone, John in particular. 28 on paper, >feeling 19, and terrified of 30. Thank *you* for providing me with an opportunity to say some things I've been wanting to say. You are a sweetheart. Relax about 30. These worries about numbers that are multiples of 10 are artifacts of our base-10 number system, which itself is an accident of our having ten fingers. There are many things a LOT worse than turning 30. Trust me. ;-) More explicit Liz content. Music history question: Assuming Liz got the line "Crimson and Clover" in Johnny Feelgood from the song by that name, did she get it from the Joan Jett version or original Tommy James version? John A. Johnson http://cac.psu.edu/~j5j/ "A ruthless, doctrinaire avoidance of degeneracy is a degeneracy of another sort. Getting drunk and picking up bar-ladies and writing metaphysics is a part of life." - from _Lila_ by R. Pirsig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:29:40 -0500 From: deadgirl@garbage.com Subject: matador promo with liz hey i just found (but did not get) this promo thingy for matador, liz had a song , stratford on guy, and pavement adn others all form matador were on. i know you all probly know this but anyways. . . - ------------------------------- To get your free email account, go to: http://www.garbagemail.com Garbage Merchandise Now Avalailable Online at http://www.garbage.com Garbage Mail is a service of Electric Artists and OneSoft. - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:37:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: Bisexuality and Liz Well, you know how my heart is all broken and all? Well the guy who broke it went to Oberlin for a year and a half, and his sister has been there three years. (He claims to have lived in Liz Phair's old dorm room , but I'm convinced that every room on campus is supposedly Liz's old room, buecasue you know, she's the staple hip-as-fuck alumnus.) He says that everyone at Oberlin, except himslef and his best friend, is either gay or bisexual. It's possibly something that happens when you arrive through the gates or whatever there are of Oberlin, or maybe it's the water there, anyway, that explains or at leats proves that yes, Liz probably experimented with a woman before. Yeah, the boy in question's sister is bisexual, and so is her boyfreind. And htey both go/went to Oberlin, so so far I can't disprove this theory. Sigh... I went to a movie... or rather TOOK "Him" to a movie last night... the night was lovely... and even that hurts because it was lovely so why the fuck does it have to end? Oh and he wasn't very like... sad to see me go or anything... so I'm hung up on him and he's like... over me. Sigh. I miss him so much. bye. Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 23:02:00 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: my son was 'inmate of the month' at the state prison!-- bumper sticker I never noticed it, but _shatter_ is #13 on EIG. I wonder if that is why it is quite possibly the strangest, most hypnotic song I've ever heard. Its a trance. Are there any superstitions in the music business like that ? Does anyone ever skip #13 ? I think I've seen it before, maybe on a Tool or Counting Crows cd... just cant think of it. We have been discussing the origins of many songs... and I cant remember if we've touched _shatter_ (short-term memory loss)... if we have-- can someone re-post it? I'm dying to know. Ever try listening to _shatter_ without hearing the _divorce song_ first and _flower_ after ? It sounds completely different. You dont get the same mood. I pretend _shatter_ is about tripping, or maybe even just smoking marijuana, (good results so far) but it has to be something hallucinogenic... or at least mellow. Maybe valium? Does anyone know the drugs she dabbled in? We know she smoked pot, she refers to coke, I think she's had to have done acid before -or shrooms- What about pills ? Pills were huge in the 80's. Okay, enough. Shatter's on...Hey-- _shatter_ must be somehow related to the rolling stones's _shatter_ Right? Damn I must figure this out. Someone tell me. I honestly think about old winnie the pooh cartoons, when the clouds rolled by. Or in the Cat in the Hat when it pours outside. Flooding water. When she starts singing, i picture her facing her feet..."maybe..." and the feed back and then the dark-jungle-like _flower_ I picture fairy-like tribal women chanting flower."every-time-I-see-your-face-I-get-all-wet-between-my-legs"... "you took the horse" ~jaime* "now I am stuck living out of a box" ~~~ "...poetry is not an expression of emotion, but an escape from emotion..." ~T.S. Eliot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 00:36:22 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: read carefully, then respond ALL I have to say is (And I don't mean to start something w/this, so keep that in mind) Jaime in Maine and perhaps mR.E, too- You SHOULD have read my original post a little clearer!!! I WAS NOT BASHING OR INSULTING EVAN DANDO IN ANY WAY, WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!! I, TOO, LOVE EVAN AND HIS MUSIC! WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID STUPID PICS, WAS: A few years back, there were pics of Courtney and Evan together and rumors circulated after these pics were published in a magazine. All these accusations were made about Courtney cheating on Kurt, etc. THAT is WHAT I was referring to in response to Mr.E's post when He so dubiously, vaguely, etc. mentioned Evan's name. So perhaps now you might think about eating the following words- Your words: <> I was NOT slamming a person on the list! I was giving my opinion on what appears to be a stupid movie! I am sorry if you found the movie entertaining, perhaps we have different standards for movies. And I didn't mean to insult you if you liked the movie, that's great! I thought it looked stupid and I guess I was disappointed cos I like liz's current status of popularity. Although this has been covered endless times, and people have said they don't expect to hear liz back-to-back w/Brittney Spears, is she on the soundtrack? Who else is on the soundtrack? I am just worried that yes, one day, my beloved liz might come back-to-back or face-to-face with Brittney. dp in nj ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #192 ************************************