From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #189 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, June 28 1999 Volume 02 : Number 189 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Funny...... ["Sally Mae" ] Keely Shaw where are you? [AGsPackage@aol.com] hello ["JeNnY sAyLeR" ] to interpretation [sandra ] who arted? ["dana polachowski" ] Flower=somewhere over the rainbow [Danaldj@aol.com] Flower-Fest Servers swapped at musicMark [Mark Schmidt ] Re: to interpretation [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] "Standing... in the doorway cryin'..." ["Jaim] i refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed pseudo-assasin... ["MrE" ] Re: Interesting Liz thought ["keely" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 04:56:34 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Funny...... Hey everyone, I just got sent this and thought it was pretty funny.......Sal: In case you needed further proof that the human >>>race is doomed through stupidity, here are some actual >>>label instructions on consumer goods: >>> >>>On Sears hair dryer: Do not use while sleeping. >>>(Gee, that's the only time I have to work on my hair!) >>> >>>On a bag of Fritos: You could be a winner! No purchase >>>necessary. Details inside. (The shoplifter special!) >>> >>>On a bar of Dial soap: Directions: Use like regular >>>soap.(and that would be how?) >>> >>>On some Swanson frozen dinners: Serving suggestion: >>>Defrost.(*Just* a suggestion!) >>> >>>On Tesco's Tiramisu dessert:(printed on bottom of the >>>box) Do not turn upside down. (Too late! You lose!) >>> >>>On Marks & Spencer Bread Pudding: Product will be hot >>>after heating. (Are you sure??? Let's experiment.) >>> >>>On packaging for a Rowenta iron: Do not iron clothes >>>on body.(Why Not? Wouldn't that save more time?) >>> >>>On Boot's Children's cough medicine: Do not drive car >>>or operate machinary. (We could do a lot to reduce the >>>rate accidents if we just kept those 5 year olds off >>>the roads.) >>> >>>On Nytol sleep aid: Warning: may cause drowsiness. >>>(One would hope!) >>> >>>On a string of Chinese-made Christmas lights: For >>>indoor or outdoor use only. (As opposed to use in >>>outer space? Or underground?) >>> >>>On a Japanese food processor: Not to be used for the >>>other use. (Now I'm curious.) >>> >>>On Sainsbury's peanuts: Warning: contains nuts. (DUH) >>> >>>On an American Airlines packet of nuts: >>>Instructions: open packet, eat nuts. >>> >>>On a Swedish chainsaw: Do not attempt to stop chain >>>with your hands or genitals. (What?) >>> >>>On a child's Superman costume: Wearing of this garment >>>does not enable you to fly. (That's right, ruin a >>>universal childhood fantasy!) > "You try and break the mould before you get too old" Summer's Gone- Placebo *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:52:58 EDT From: AGsPackage@aol.com Subject: Keely Shaw where are you? If you see this, please email me. I lost your email addres and need to ask you something very important. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:52:10 -0500 From: "JeNnY sAyLeR" Subject: hello Hi, I have been lurking in the shadows of support - system in the recent weeks, but I thought I would make a comment. Hmmmm, oh yes, that Strange Loop thing. That is really cool Nicole, thanks for posting it. Knowing this, I think that name really fits the song very very well "Baby, I'm tired of fighting" This makes me think of 2 people in a relationship that fight alot and hence are kind of pulling away from each other, but they keep coming back, and are consequently stuck in a neverending cycle of an unhealthy relationship, much like the Strange Loop. Hmmm, that was awfully deep for 9:51 am, must be all the codiene I an taking for my knee surgery (that is also a strange loop) Jenny *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ * Cool, Tall, Vulnerable, and Luscious - http://www.liz-phair.com Vampyr - A Buffy the Vampire Slayer Page http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/vampyr.htm *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ * ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 09:26:40 -0700 (PDT) From: sandra Subject: to interpretation Katie wrote: A curious thought, does Liz have any songs that are basically about nothing? You know...songs with a bunch of words put together and don't make up a story or any sense? The only thing I can think of now is Big Tall Man. This is really interesting to me. I'm crazed with work and playing on four sports teams right now so my mind isn't all there, but I either read (on this list?) or heard in an interview that Big Tall Man was a result of Liz 'projecting' herself to 'be' this guy in her band or on her crew or something. Like 'transference,' she just pretended she was this guy and wrote about being him. I liked this. I love hearing how she has come up with songs. I've only been a lister for three months, and I rarely post, but I always read the digest. I know that Katiebrown or someone wrote about what Liz said May Queen was about. I heard an interview (thanks Ray Lew; your tapes are purchased; just need to mail them--same goes for CD's for Sean and Justin--I am so lame) where she said Polyester Bride is completely autobiographical, though she wrote it a few years ago. And in the same interview she said that Johnny Feelgood is about a guy who's so bad but he's so, so good at the same time. She also says the song's inception is "more recent" than Polyester Bride. (btw, I totally know what she's talking about in Johnny, and we're not talking physical abuse b/c that's obviously a metaphor, but have any girls out there been sucked in by their own Johnny Feelgood? oh yes, it's fun--but it sucks--while still being so damn fun ...or am I alone here?) However, I heard elsewhere (Chicago boot from '98 perhaps?) where she opens Johnny Feelgood by saying "This song is from my college days, and it's about liberation" or something like that. Also, in that same interview she talked about how she wrote What Makes You Happy (though the meaning is pretty literal) And listers were just talking about Shane ... but my question is: I am sure many of you have read stuff about the meaning behind or the impetus to writing certain songs. Without jamming this list with it ... is there any website where there are explanations of her songs? or interpretations? from listeners or Liz-isms herself that have been culled from interviews? I myself love that so many of her songs can be interpreted on so many different levels. But something literal like Divorce Song ... that's so believable ... a perfect breakup song. On THAT note, I have trouble believing that guys can get what Liz is saying as well as girls can. A guy told me once that the Divorce Song is so sad it's depressing, even though he likes the song. And it's totally not sad in my view. I'll probably get flak from the guys, but truly, she's a girl's girl all the way through. On our side, speaking for us. What is it that guys--hetero guys--get out of her songs? I mean PERSONALLY? Musicianship and beauty aside ... I'm just talking about the lyrics and the songs' messages. I'd really like to hear what some guys have to say. I think I just opened two cans of worms here. shit. sandra NP: Fading in: Never Mind the Mainstream, Best of MTV's 120 Minutes Vol 2. Fading out: Versus, Two Cents Plus Tax _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:16:36 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: who arted? > > "courtney lives for the limelight" > > hey, guess what? Probably 99% of all the rock stars, movie stars, tv > stars and everyone trying to be one lives for the limelight. OK: i think there are basically two camps, with a lot of sloshing between them. first there are those people who write music, act, etc. because they've got something in there that they've gotta get out--they know they can make the idea live. then there are those who just HAVE to be out in front of other people no matter what it takes: "see how great i am? i must be, because i'm in all the magazines!!" crap like that. *of course* nobody's purely one or the other.... but, come on, there are *a lot* of people in the limelight (by default) who are really truly aligning themselves with and holding themselves to an artistic ideal. they're making themselves *answer to* something beyond their own egos. it's true. i see it all the time. (i.e., they go way beyond power chords, etc.) it makes it so much easier to spot the fuckin' poseurs. Someone yelled "You have one hell of an ego." Roddy replied > "Isure as hell do. You get on this stage without one." when you've spent countless hours honing your craft and someone says "play onstage" whattya gonna do? fucking get on stage! duh! like i said with that built-to-spill stuff, it can be as simple as just getting up there and playing--no fancy stuff--to, you know, the full-on rock-out performance. again, a lot of those people view it as just another part of their JOB, not, "ok, here's yet another chance to show that i am king." yuk! i love roddy frame........ where'd he go?? i bet the reason all those people at matador think liz was a pain in the ass is just because she can't stick to schedules and is always changing her mind.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:29:50 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: Flower=somewhere over the rainbow In a message dated 6/27/99 TaliaK@aol writes: << I realized where I know the tune from ( I always thought it sounded familiar). It sounds like Somewhere Over the Rainbow (the verse part)... now am I just imagining this or have other people noticed this?>> Actually, Robin, I realized the same thing last week and posted this and NO ONE responded. BUt YES, I do think that it sounds Just like it! And I am so glad you noticed it, too! Now I don't feel quite so lonely! dp in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:42:49 PDT From: Mark Schmidt Subject: Flower-Fest Servers swapped at musicMark To help those who have been unable to catch the (crappy) webjump servers in a giving mood (especially Talia, who brought it to my attention), Flower-fest MP3's at musicMark have undergone a server swap. What was on the fast server is now slow, and what was slow has become fast. (Say, doesn't that fulfill some sort of biblical prophecy or something?) Flower=fest will probably last another week, then I'll change the songs again. If you have suggestions, please email me! - ---Mark (http://musicmark.webjump.com) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:44:59 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: oh, yeah....before i forget... hey MrE: "....we got-ta get you a wo-maannnn.... and when we're through with you.... we'll get m-........" ok, that's enough....(i'm sorry--i couldn't resist) fun movie quote of the day: "we're gonna be so happy, we'll be whistling 'zippity-do-dah' out of our asses." ouch!! dp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 18:09:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: my life How *ironic* that I've been discussing "Strange Loop?" lately. Listen to that song. That's my fucking life right now. Sort of. Except for the adamantly free part... that would be more of the guy's side...well the whole first verse is him... in a way... Because I didn't want worse, but somehow that's always what ended up. And now it's the worst, being that it's over. And my heart is broken. Shattered even. But I only wanted more than I knew. - -Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 18:06:48 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: to interpretation Sandra wrote: >On THAT note, I have trouble believing that guys can >get what Liz is saying as well as girls can. A guy >told me once that the Divorce Song is so sad it's >depressing, even though he likes the song. And it's >totally not sad in my view. I'll probably get flak >from the guys, but truly, she's a girl's girl all the >way through. On our side, speaking for us. What is it >that guys--hetero guys--get out of her songs? I mean >PERSONALLY? Musicianship and beauty aside ... I'm just >talking about the lyrics and the songs' messages. I'd >really like to hear what some guys have to say. Well, I really wouldn't presume to speak for anyone but myself, and I don't happen to fall on the hetero side of things, but this topic has come up in the past on the list and your post reminded me of one specific reply that I felt really said a lot. After digging through the archives, I was able to find it (it dates back quite a while, from January '97), so here it is reposted, with the author's email address deleted: From: dmw Subject: glad to see some debate! my 2 cents: i get a little miffed when folks tell me that because i'm male i can't 'get' phair's music, and even more miffed at the notion that i listen to her because i see her as a sex object. certainly there's a commonality of experience that i don't have, but i think there's an emotional core to virtually all of the songs that's a little more universal. i didn't live through the specific details of 'divorce song' but the details that are there -- the offhand way she says 'it's true that i stole your lighter' before the killer 'you said i wasn't worth talking to' paints a picture of a kind of relationship end-game so vivid it can still twist me up, and i know i lived through the same feelings in slightly different circumstances. and i don't think that 'fuck and run' has such a uniquely female perspective either. probably all of us have some experience with the confusion that can lie between physical intimacy and emotional intimacy; and i can assure you that not all men prefer the former, if you have to choose just one, and not all women prefer the latter. i don't mean to be argumentive, exactly, but some of the recent comments seem to make generalizations about the roles of men and women that i don't think are valid in all specific cases. i get the feeling -- perhaps incorrectly -- that the underlying implication is that men (at least in het relationships) have to be the 'bad guy' all the time -- more callous, motivated by sexual objectification, etc. why can't my reasons for appreciating phair's music be as complex as any other humans? i admit this is muddied somewhat by the fact that i do consider liz phair physically attractive -- but i bought her record without having the slightest idea what she looked like. (the very first time i heard it -- it was in-store play. i listened all the way through 6'1" and after the first two lines of 'help me mary' made it clear the first song wasn't some fluke i told the person behind the counter to sell me a copy of whatever it was.) doug Cheers, Jase NP: Liz, _Whip-Smart_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 18:11:49 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Eric Ginsburg" Subject: "Something useful........or useless" I was listening to to Elvis Costello's "Girls Girls Girls" compilation. The song "New Amsterdam" has a line that goes like this: "Till I step on the brake To get out of the clutches, 'Till I speak double-dutch, Do a real double-dutchess." Now, how many songs can the word 'double-dutch' be in without some kind of connection. The whole "Alison" thing got me thinking..... any thoughts? I think Liz should cover Elvis' "Watching the Detectives." By the way, I'll be seeing Elvis play in Philly this Friday night...... Ginz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:39:49 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: "Standing... in the doorway cryin'..." ~~~~~~~~~ >Rock stars perform, cover bands cover, and >the twain should never meet (well, ok, there is plenty of grey area there). >What also pisses me off is all these so-called rock stars re-recording >others' works. Write your own fucking songs! OK, Weird Al doesn't count, >and Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" is simply outstanding...but it's >annoying to me that so many of them are successful because a lot of the >songs are older and kids today don't know them. >TMK ~~~ Tommy, I dont really agree with you herre, because I think its wonderful to see a band (or liz phair) sing something by their idol, or their favorite song. I like to know what music influenced them. But I do agree that it seems to have become a trendy thing to do. Too many covers have been coming out lately and I wonder why. Hmmm. =) It is so funny, because I have been replying to this for about a week now. I have been kissed by a summer fairy, and I am finally having an exceptional summer. Maybe its Austin Powers. I just saw the first one, and now recently I saw the second one... 'Yeah-baby!!,' 'Groovy, baby!,' 'Smashing~baby!'... Its like a fever. Liz should be in an Austin Powers movie! She would look so good as a groovy-free-lovin-hippie-chic... Much better than Elizabeth Hurly... ;)... It's taken a week--- and here it goes... I'm finally sending it... I hope everyone has great 4th of July plans--- later- ~jaime* - -<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>- "I only get high about twice a day, It helps to keep my blues away..." --Bran Van 3000 -<<>>- "Downer Surrealism." - --Frank Zappa, on Steely Dan - -<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>- NP: Bob Dylan _Time Out Of Mind_ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:58:43 -0700 From: "MrE" Subject: i refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed pseudo-assasin... >What were you talking about , Mr.E, >when you mentioned Evan Dando, some stupid pics? ...uh...huh? if you are trying to promote harmony and well-being, then perhaps you should put your ego-centrist self away...or at least learn how to be disarming without losing my interest. even slightly entertaining in your slams would be a plus. other than that...go away bad dream... >Instead we should just try to respect everyone's opinions well put...hypocritical, but well put... and now for the local liz phair news: live love eat Momus ~~ "The sushi looks marvelous," I tell her soothingly. ...Patrick Bateman ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:04:55 -0400 From: "Mike Boucher" Subject: Interesting Liz thought Two things.... 1) MAJOR props to Allison T. (a.k.a. DaisyGirl) for sending me TONS of cool Liz stuff. I met her at the Liz benefit in NYC and talked her into sending me stuff and she came up BIG!!! I now finally have a copy of GirlySounds. Who is stoked? That'd be me. You rock Allison!!!! 2) After my first run-through of GS one thing that stuck out was a lyric change in Flower. On the EIG version that I've listened to a million times, she sings "I'll fuck you and your minions too." However, in the GS she sings, "I'll fuck you and your girlfriend too." Which got me to thinking... Okay, it got me to fantasizing (or should I say Phantasizing.... - you'll have to forgive me from being a male on this one) - do you think Liz has ever had a lesbian experience? I'd enjoy having the group kick that one around. Did she ever discuss anything on that topic in any interview? If not, what do you think? Think she ever fucked a girlfriend? Thought this would be a fun one to take a poll on.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 23:10:54 -0500 From: "keely" Subject: Re: Interesting Liz thought On the EIG version that I've listened to a million >times, she sings "I'll fuck you and your minions too." However, in the GS >she sings, "I'll fuck you and your girlfriend too." - --- The story behind flower that she's told in concerts is that there was a guy she liked and she had heard that he and his girlfriend were going to break up at some party. So she goes to this party to get with this guy and sees the guy and the girlfriend in coupled bliss. Damn them. So she goes home and writes Flower. cheers. keely ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #189 ************************************