From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #185 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, June 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 185 Today's Subjects: ----------------- In response. . . [JJewelbaby@aol.com] Oh, gods, no! NOOOooo! [Dennis Junkoo Kim ] Beatles Covers... ["Tim Sanderlin" ] sessions at west 54th [baggytrousers@mindspring.com] smack ["dana polachowski" ] dp? DVDA! ["Chris Whitfield" ] catfight ["Chris Whitfield" ] My only mushy moment ["Sally Mae" ] Reason to be dead; rock star rumors [Mike Connolly ] liz at lilith; guys who like liz ["Morrise, Jason" ] Pavement [Tiffany M Wilson ] "M.L.Magdalene"'s comments.. [Dan ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #184 ["Pat Smalley" ] please help!! and responses, and kurt/ney words [Danaldj@aol.com] next stop (allison) wonderland [DaisyFoo14@aol.com] Re: Liz boots - more thank yous! [Miz Phair ] Re: Reason to be dead; rock star rumors [Miz Phair ] whatever mag article [Miz Phair ] pavement? ["bh" ] Beatle stuff, Allison's pictures [AngelLieb@aol.com] Re: Pavement [Jason Long ] Re: Stephen Malkmus [Fred Neutz ] #WCSE/irc and Missy Elliot Plug [Dan ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:34:31 EDT From: JJewelbaby@aol.com Subject: In response. . . Hello all! I felt the need to post, since I don't often do so! About "American History X," it is an EXCELLENT movie, one of my all-time favorites (and I used to work at a movie theater, so I see tons and tons of movies!) Rent it if you have a chance! :) Another movie mentioned was "Next Stop Wonderland." I recently rented this, and it was pretty good. But, I do not think that there were any Liz songs in it. I don't remember that at all! Okay, what else? Oh yeah. I am going to Lilith soon and I have a question. Last year at the Chicago show, some people had stickers on that said "LP" and they got to chill backstage with Liz. Apparently, they recieved them somehow?!!! I have no idea. Does anyone know how/ have an experience with this? I would love to meet Liz, as I have not yet. :( If anyone has any "insider info," that would be great!!!! :) Thanks!!!! ~Julie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Dennis Junkoo Kim Subject: Oh, gods, no! NOOOooo! On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, support-system-digest wrote: > > Dennis Junkoo Kim, re: #177, you're turning into MrE. ("Turning MrE, I > think I'm turning MrE, I really fear so..") (for those of you geeks who BBSed with 1200bps modems) TSIA. Is MrE something that one can be turned into? Is it like Baptism? I'm an atheist. Yes, I really think so. I want the pope, to take a picture, of his god, so i can look at the flipside... and re the other posts: NP stands for "now playing". Stephen Malkmus and the rest of Pah-vay-ment make great music despite their demeanors. In the immortal words of that guy from westwood one: "This? (plays 'Cut your hair') ...or this? (plays 'Mmmm mmm mmm mm' (crash test dummies)) Yeah, I thought so. Here's Pavement." NP: the magic city, helium. - --- "A'nta baka?" -Asuka d. www4.ncsu.edu/~djkim2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:09:22 +0000 From: "Tim Sanderlin" Subject: Beatles Covers... I suggested a few digests ago that Liz would do a great cover of 'Cry, Baby, Cry' from the 'White Album'... I also think that (if she sped it up and added a distorted guitar) that hearing Liz do 'Maxwell's Silver Hammer' would be an instant classic!! Others: 'You Won't See Me' 'It's All Too Much' 'Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite' (seriously... Imagine her voice being as sultry as it can be... "For the benefit of Mr. Kite, there will be a show tonite on trampoline..." Can you hear it?? NP: U2 - The Joshua Tree (Finally got it on CD... hehe) ********************** I drank WHAT? -Socrates ********************* Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:15:08 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #184 Reply-to: support-system@smoe.org >What beatles song do you think Liz should cover??? >'Day Tripper' or 'Got to get you into my life' or 'I've got a Feeling' >or 'You Never Give me your Money' or.......? >Which era of the Beatles was everyone's favorite?? Me, personally, my >favorite was the whole Sgt. Peppers-Magical Mystery Tour era. Those >were crazy times. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:29:19 -0700 From: baggytrousers@mindspring.com Subject: sessions at west 54th with many thanks to john c, i am now the owner of an audio copy of sessions... so..if anyone would like a copy, id be more than willing to make them one (with nothing expected in return except for maybe a 'thanks')...all i can say right now is that i can only take the first five requests at this time...i work nights and its a miracle if i am up for more than 3 hours a day when i am not at work or asleep (so in other words, it may take me a week or so to get them out to people) or if anyone is interested in trading, that would be briliant, i am slowly building my collection of live liz stuff.... take care roberta ICQ #27407066 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I may be an adult now but i was shocked to find out how much of my youthful idiocy was still entact .....you may be part of society now from the eyes of a 15-year old but I'm completely still sitting on the fence between in and out, and us and them. -Liz Phair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:06:07 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: smack > > I dont see how that is any different than Ani or even Alanis-- When > Alanis hit radio- I'm sure a few called in and asked about her... Just like > with Ani now. That isnt why she isnt on alt-radio. i think liz hits people way, way harder. i think people either love her or hate her--strongly. *that's* what i'm saying. alanis had her one "rager," and, fuck yeah, it got attention, but liz has an entire oeuvre that is *way* more complicated and, of course, lots of people really don't get it. to sort of underscore my point yet again: radio programmers are running a business. if you wanna go off and say that her labels don't promote her hard enough, fine, but there are plenty of people in postions to get her "heard" and who DO see her talent who *still* don't bother to be rogues and play her. why not? because she's more in-depth, more emotionally complicated, too sexually charged, and (thus) more controversial. more so, i think, than even ani. (i am prepared for the flames...) in short, she's a tough "product." and station managers and programmers have to somehow be able to support/justify their "product" because they are (legally, anyway) "serving" the public. are they gonna play/sell/promote something that doesn't go down easy? something that might incite, inflame, piss people off? confuse them? make them go wild with desire? businesspeople don't like dealing with things like that; anything off-schedule is a hassle. and, i'm telling you, if her stuff was played on the radio--in heavy rotation like it should be--people would go nuts. alot of the stuff that's crammed down our throats is easy to ignore, but not liz's. am i wrong? anyway, that's my rationale, boring as it is.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:31:46 +1000 From: "Chris Whitfield" Subject: dp? DVDA! Sal wrote: >Jaime, I agree that Liz should do a tour with Ben Folds Five but to Australia as well as America. A promoter was sniffing around in Melbourne a couple months ago to see if there was any interest in a Liz tour, but I would guess that until Nick is a little older she isn't likely to travel overseas. > Ben Fold's wive lives in the same city as me and soon he will be living here too....how cool is that? and their twins! Not sure if they've been born yet tho. later dp asked: > >Hate to be oh-so -annoying,but can someone PLEASE post the website to hear >the weston song, "Liz Phair" again? www.mp3.com/weston Chris NP: "Strange Tales", Golden Smog - --- www.micronica.com.au/~cerebus --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:38:18 +1000 From: "Chris Whitfield" Subject: catfight this url was posted to alt.fan.liz-phair http://www.prolefeed.com/features/catfight/index.html I'm not repeating the original post suffice to say that its a Celebrity Deathmatch type site between 50 or so female artists. Vote for Liz! I love this quote from the site : "She's dangerous in much the same way that "Macho Man" Randy Savage is dangerous-she can be calm and collected one minute, full of the Madness the next. (OOH YEAH!!!) " chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 04:12:46 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: My only mushy moment Hello again..Firstly I'd like to say thanks for emails I've received from people on this list + that all you people on this list seem very nice hence my recent understanding of why you people meet up a bit and that I now feel fully part of this list and I really look forward to receiving it every day!! NOW (National Organization for Women) before I get too emotional I have some other things to say. Mr E/Momus I do not believe that Courtney's behaviour had anything to do with Kurt's suicide. Also Derek would you happen to be insulting the wonderful Miss Love in your post?? And Jaime, what you said about not wanting Liz to be on the same level as the Spice Girls, don't think that most teens love them cause, at least in Australia, most people pay them out heaps*TRANSLATION:make fun of* and a lot of teens here love alternative music thanks to a kick-arse station here called Triple J that only plays alternative stuff *www.abc.net.au/triplej* as well as heaps of fantastic aussie bands*we have THE best band scene here*. I'm pretty sure JJJ is the best radio station in the world because it's in the greatest country in the world!! You know, the divine goddess herself*Courtney* said at the Melbourne Big Day Out *summer festival* on Australia Day that Australia was a great country and that our "problems are nothing" compared to the rest of the world's. I actually wasn't there but thanks to JJJ I heard Hole's set at the Melbourne BDO but I saw them in Adelaide. They weren't that good cause Courtney got bitten by a bug, hence the set was shortened and I was really disappointed and I lost my friend when Hole were playing too. But Marilyn Manson*also at the BDO* was extremely entertaing, what with his costumes and bible-tearing*no offense to any Christians on this list*! Another thing Jaime it's highly unlikely that I'll see you at a Liz concert considering where I live but it might happen! Also Jaime since it appears you like Ben Folds Five and Korn did you know Jonothan Davis said that "Ben Folds Five suck. They are fucking Cheers music" or something along the lines of that? So I basically despise Korn now! Anyway I better go before I babble on some more.....Sal "You have made me smile again In fact I might be sore from it It's been a while "-Don't Change Your Plans- BFF *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 06:34:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Connolly Subject: Reason to be dead; rock star rumors > From: "MrE" > Subject: Kurt > > there are most certainly a number of contributing > factors and factorees involved with the demise of > the late and exceptionally great artist, Kurt > Cobain, of whom i count myself a fan, Being a fan is great, but don't you think his importance to music increase disproportionally on the morning his death was announced? It always seemed to me (as in, IMHO) that Cobain became an icon only after he died, much in the way Lynyrd Skynyrd became the world's greatest Southern Rock band only after the plane went down in the swamp. > From: "Sally Mae" > Also according to my friend, who's a fanatical BFF > fan, Exile in Guyville is one of Ben Fold's favourite > albums hence the cover I s'pose. From what I've heard (from someone who was one of the gang mentioned in "Steven's Last Night In Town'" he's not just a fan of EIG, but has a major crush on Liz herself. === Mikey C Va Beach "When money talks, I try not to listen But lately it's been screaming in my ear." - -Ben Folds Five, "Emaline" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:45:27 -0500 From: "Morrise, Jason" Subject: liz at lilith; guys who like liz >and a question, i know this probly has had it's disscussion >before, but is liz playing any lilth dates this year? Attention Liz Phair Fans! Don't miss Liz Phair when she plays at Lilith Fair on the following dates: DATE CITY VENUE 8/14 Detroit Pine Knob 8/15 Detroit Pine Knob 8/17 Cleveland Blossom Music Center I also saw on the lilith fair website recently that she is supposed to be playing in indianapolis at deer creek on august 18. does anyone know if this was canceled or changed? >And that GUYS just don't seem to understand LIZ....Well...SOME OF >THEM so, just out of curiosity, I was wondering what exactly it is that guys don't understand about liz? I'm not denying that the average male a) doesn't like her because "women should be seen and not heard" or b) thinks she's hot and likes to hear her say she "wants to be his blow job queen" or c) just doesn't take the time to listen or has never heard her music. maybe I'm just not the average guy, but I have my own reasons for liking liz. I may not be able to empathize with her on every level, there being certain experiences uniquely female, and I'm also not a music critic to the level that I get at every nuance of every note. I like her music. I like her sarcasm and wit and how she is in touch with her sexuality, both in understanding male fantasies and her own freedom to enjoy sex (because why shouldn't a woman fuck and run, too). I'm not trying to attack your particular comment, but I have often sensed that (some) women feel like liz wasn't aimed at men. I personally think if we can get men and women to agree that liz is cool, we'll have made some progress in equality; because why can't men learn to be okay with women having strength and power and a craving for sex? it doesn't mean that we (men) have to give up our strength and power and craving for sex. it means that we can all have a lot more fun working together and sharing dreams, and well, once again, the sex thing. I'm going to end here before I go off on some tangent that should be relegated to a chat room on the fight for sexual equality, but I am kind of interested in knowing what the ratio of male/female liz fans is... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:02:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: Pavement well, I have to throw in my comments on what SM said. He wasn't talking about her music. I read years ago that Pavement were fans of Liz (played with her a couple of times, didn't they?) and Liz is/was a major fan of Pavement. He was talking about her more "rock star" antics. I love her music to death, but she flies to shows, takes cabs and limos, doesn't travel on the tour bus with her band, etc. Well, that's bound to cost Matador a shitload, and I sincerely doubt Liz brings that much dough in. Pavement, on the other hand, tours cheaply. When I met them in Pittsburgh, they were staying at the crappy Best Western on Blvd. of the Allies (for anyone who knows the city). This place is cheap. This is where my parents stay when they come to town (which, for some stupid reason, I chose to share with Steven.). My point is, Pavement are actually really nice guys who aren't on a major rock star kick, and they're probably a little pissed that some of their tour money went to paying cab fare for Liz, or something like that. He wasn't ripping on her music... - -Tiff "And I may be young, but I still know the things you put down can rise from below. And I can hardly believe you would lay this at my door, 'cause I have heard that song before." -Liz Phair "All you ever wanted was someone to take care of you. All you're ever losing is a little mascara..." -Paul Westerberg (The Replacements) "This is why events unnerve me, they find it all a different story. Notice whom for wheels are turning, turn again and turn towards this time... Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown. Heaven knows, it's got to be this time..." -Ian Curtis (Joy Division) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:32:34 -0400 From: Dan Subject: "M.L.Magdalene"'s comments.. "M.L.Magdalene" WROTE: >Did i tell you guys about about my epiphany that Liz should cover some Lou >Reed yet? Oh YES!! i could SOO see this!! This has been a dream of mine for a while..I think liz's voice could nicely compliment the songs - very much in the same way - but uniquely different - as Lou Reed's..good call! Everytime I listen to Velvet Underground or Reed's stuff - I totally think it screams "LIZ! COVER ME!" "I thought I was someone else..someone good.." - i could totally see it. "M.L.Magdalene" also wrote: > >And that GUYS just don't seem to understand LIZ....Well...SOME OF >THEM>......ick.. > Okay - I'm not touching this one at all..but I'd just like to say - for this statement - a flaming is in order - but I'm not going to waste my time giving one. Oops! I just did. pretty on the inside, DAN. NP: Mary Lou Lord - "GOT NO SHADOW" (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) Fame and fortune took its toll, He's not the king of rock 'n roll anymore, He's just a junkie redneck. -LIZ PHAIR, "Elvis, Be True". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:34:29 +0100 From: "Pat Smalley" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #184 Hey, Nicole wrote, ''And it's goign to ruin my time in London, and tha'ts a real bummer.'' Soooooo your visiting my countrys fair capital. I'm down in London soon, maybe we can hook up and get pissed or something.Sounds like fun. I've got the same problem as you 'cept the males are females in my world. Marky. P.s Allison please mail me soon.Thanx. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:41:19 -0400 From: u1030146 Subject: Liz boots - Thanks you JC To All, I while ago I asked if any one here could kindly make me a CDR of any Liz concerts or GS cd's they might have. Well no one offered me a thing (fuck, I didnt know this was Ebay) .........except for a certain someone from NEWGLEN. He [name ommitted] offered to make me THREE Liz concert CD's. To my delight these were FLAWLESS sounding - No hisssssss or static or anything. He even made up for insufficient return postage and a faultly disc I sent him. This was all done Free Of Charge - none of this "Pay me for my time" shit. He copied and posted the 3 CD's back to me in ONE day. Again none of this "I'm busy, wait 4 months crap." When I looked in my mail box and saw this Jiffy Envelope sticking out, tore it open, gently placed the cds in my changer - I thought to my self - "This cant be happening , I'm never this happy." This is a memory that will never fade. (First kiss, first car, first Liz concert CD) I would again like to thank you very much for this unheard of generousity. You don't know how happy you can make someone by taking 20 minutes to burn a three dollar CDR. Sincerly, John F Boyd Ottawa ON ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:16:42 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: please help!! and responses, and kurt/ney words Ok, I guess I know how to really be a nudge!! Well, that's what my parents have always said. So if anyone out there is aware of these few, measly notes that I need to complete my existence please!!! tell me!! I CAN"T TAKE IT ANY LONGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELP!!! I just want the opening notes to "headache" I can't figure out why I can't figure it out! I think it's a D, but it's not. To respond to the Question what does NP stand for- Now Playing , you know like whatever you are listening to as you type away. Also Liz is playing Three lilith dates in August, someone posted them a few days ago, and you can also find them at Matador. Last, I just want to say I am sooooooo sick of hearing all this Kust /Courtney talk, and i don't just mean from the list, but in general. Everytime I mention Hole or Courtney, there's always some type of strong reaction. I am so sick of hearing how Kurt "wrote" Live thru This- No FUCKING WAY! That album has way too much female in it. It is written from such a feminine point of view, about female experiences. And I am sick of hearing how Billy Corgan wrote the new album. I don't want to hear how she "killed" him ANYMORE! He died in 1994, that was 5 years ago! Let him rest already!! I was sad when he died, I liked Nirvana, but I wasn't surprised when he died. He was a depressed heroin addict, not a very promising future. Anyway, let's just talk about liz instead, ok? this kurt/courtney talk is soooo old!! And that's why I won't see that movie! Off the soapbox, dp in nj NP: Lois- "Infinity Plus" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:19:24 EDT From: DaisyFoo14@aol.com Subject: next stop (allison) wonderland Shit! I'd just copied the portion of digest I wanted to quote, but then I copied and pasted the addy to send this puppy to, so now I have to go searching thru the digest again for the sentence........wahwahwah Yes! I found it! <> Ummmmmm........I was a Liz fan when I saw that movie, and don't recall hearing any Liz. I love that movie! Everyone go see it! I love the crazy twists of linoleum, uncheesy love, and a puffer fish...........consistency is the hobgoblin of petty minds.....errrrrr....whatever it was........Hope Davis (that's her name, right?) is adorable..... Also, I have the soundtrack, and it's all like bossa nova stuff........and that song "mas que nada" or whatever it is.....love that catchy tune........so, if a liz song had been in the movie, it really would've stuck out on the soundtrack. Wait...I didn't totally answer yr question..........I never saw preview for that movie, so I have no idea if any eig stuff was in the preview Only one more final to go and that's tomorrow, and thursdays are traditionally good. Liz one week, passed my road test the next (yeah! does it usually happen that the tester says "I'll cut you a break" and lets you pass even if the parallel park is crappy and he really wants to fail you?), and tomorrow something good must happen dammit. Hmmmm........I'm getting my order from alloy....if everything fits, that would kick ass. I really hope that bag mysteriously un-backordered..now I'm being petty......... Katie -- are the pics ready for public consumption? I think my benefit pics are scanned onto spaceeggy katie's site....she is the best hostess....I wrote beast by accident.......symbolic???? : ) ........so, if they're ready, check them out, and give me feedback. Positive feedback....I hate insults....they just piss me off...... - --Allison NP: Ken Nordine, "Colors"......Right smack in the middle of spectrum, green can be a problem.......... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:32:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: Re: Liz boots - more thank yous! > I would again like to thank you very much for this > unheard of generousity. > > You don't know how happy you can make someone by > taking 20 minutes to burn a three > dollar CDR. > > I just wanted to add my thanks to the person who recently sent me the Feb. 12, 1999 show. I made the horrible mistake of not saving the email cause I'd like to thanks the person privately as well and to pay you back in kind. So if you're out there, please email me. Paige Schector= Port St. Lucie, FL (formerly known as dream_sis on this list) Thanks to all who bring Liz joy into the lives of those who haven't gotten to see her yet and don't have much beyond the regular releases! p= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:38:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: Re: Reason to be dead; rock star rumors > Being a fan is great, but don't you think his > importance to music increase disproportionally on > the > morning his death was announced? It always seemed to > me (as in, IMHO) that Cobain became an icon only > after he died, much in the way Lynyrd Skynyrd became > the world's greatest Southern Rock band only after > the > plane went down in the swamp. I don't see that with Kurt. I think he and Nirvana were looked at as being the band that saved the masses from hair bands. But that's just my opinion. On a different tangent for the same subject, it seemed like Stevie Ray Vaughan got wider exposure after he tragically passed. Those in the know knew how great he was, but he sold much better after the fact. It's just one of those morbid facts of life. > From what I've heard (from someone who was one of > the > gang mentioned in "Steven's Last Night In Town'" > he's > not just a fan of EIG, but has a major crush on Liz > herself. > I find this fascinating. I'm a huge Ben Folds Five fan too and I second the earlier motion for a Liz-Five tour. I guess Ben would like it too! Then I would get to see two favorite bands for the first time together!!! paige= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:40:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: whatever mag article Yesterday there was a post to this list about Whatever magazine. I went to the site and there are two issues - 7 and 8 I believe with Liz reviews and pictures in them. I emailed the company and they said they are available. Here's the info: $2/issue Whatever 140 Medway, Box 157 Providence, RI 02906 paige= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:24:31 -0500 From: "bh" Subject: pavement? >Pavement is the archetypal '90s slacker-rock band, complete with faux >thrift-store clothes (probably purchased at Gadzooks) and >pseudo-lackadaisical lyrical delivery that are ALL every bit as studied as >Kiss's makeup and platform boots. They're doing the same thing as Beck, but >just don't have the Dust Brothers producing them (along with Hanson) to >create an MTV hit out of their lame crap songs. Didn't your beloved Liz do the same thing by hiring Scott "Mr. Sheen" Litt? >What Pavement does is EVERY BIT as much an LA commodity as what he's implying >Liz is. They look for "indie-rock-type" actors for cereal and soda pop >commercials--look at a copy of Backstage some time. Pavement are playing a >character that's a HELL of a lot less original or interesting than the >strange box of quirks and contradictions that is Liz Phair. Pavement doesn't really strike me as being pretentious or "LA commodity"-esque... Those guys in Pavement have to work non-musical jobs in between tours to survive... I'm not sure if Liz (in her half-million dollar Lincoln Park brownstone) can really relate anymore to those other bands on Matador that actually tour to survive... whatever... I guess I should be happy that people have stopped dissing Barbara Manning! NP: Pavement "Cream of Gold" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:53:07 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Beatle stuff, Allison's pictures Ohki..somewhere in the back of my head, I keep getting the thought of having a cover of The Beatles' "It's Only Love." Had that song in my head all day. I love every era of The Beatles, too hard for me to pick out a particular one. Also, if you ever get a chance to see one of their movies on the big screen, I strongly recommend going! Awesome experience for me. Sigh....I get high when I see you go by...... I recently added Allison's pictures from the New York benefit concert to my page. Check them out at: http://zap.to/spaceegg Just like a white wing dove, Katie ();) NP: Stevie Nicks_The Wild Heart ^ Now Playing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:12:42 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Pavement Tiffany wrote: >He was talking about her more "rock star" antics. I love her >music to death, but she flies to shows, takes cabs and limos, doesn't >travel on the tour bus with her band, etc. Well, that's bound to cost >Matador a shitload, and I sincerely doubt Liz brings that much dough in. Actually, from what I've heard, Liz hasn't received any tour support from any label since the _Exile_ days. As I posted not too long ago, Liz doesn't lose money on the road, and while she likely isn't making a lot of money herself, she does turn a profit. I understand that a lot of the time when she flies to shows, it's so that she can spend as much time with her family as she can, and I honestly don't think anyone can blame her for wanting to do that. And, since she is making money, I say that if that's the way she would want to travel anyway, good for her. She's only spending her own money, and who really wants to be stuck on a tour bus for long periods of time anyway? Another thing is that, even if Liz were getting tour support, it really wouldn't cost Matador anything in reality. That money would be advanced to her, and the label would have to recoup it in sales before Liz would see any royalties from her albums. This probably is why Pavement choose to tour as cheaply as they do -- if they didn't make any money on the road and were to receive a lot of tour support, only to find themselves then not getting any royalties from their record sales, they'd be screwed. Honestly, I'm tired of hearing Matador artists bitch about Liz -- right now it's Stephen Malkmus, before that Barbara Manning, and there have been others in the past. They all just seem to resent and are jealous of Liz's success; perhaps they wonder why it's not them instead. Well, the fact is, if they took a simple listen to Liz's music and then their own, they'd know why. I'm not really criticizing the music of other Matador artists, as I do listen to and like a lot of them, but realistically, of course Liz is going to do much better than them. First of all, Liz's lyrics aren't as oblique as those of bands such as Pavement, Helium and Guided By Voices. A good part of Liz's appeal comes from the relatibility of her words. While I do love all of the bands I mentioned, their lyrics aren't nearly as much of a draw for me -- I like the way the words sound when set to the music, but that's about all I get from them usually. I also do like the sound of those bands and others who are on the label, but in many cases, the production on their records is rather muddled. Sure, Liz's past music isn't really that slick by any means, but it sounds downright polished next to certain GBV releases (although not so much anything they've done in the past few years, more the earlier stuff). Also, while Liz is terribly inventive as a songwriter and veers quite often from standard verse/chorus/verse pop song structure, she writes stronger (not to mention more accessible) melodies than anyone else I can think of on the label. And the fact is, Liz writes hooks -- great ones -- which is something a few of the more drony/experimental bands don't bother to do. If it weren't such a challenge to get into their music, perhaps they'd have the same chance of success that Liz has. While it's commendable that they are following their own visions and making the music they want to, they should also understand that if their music isn't particularly accessible, they're not going to sell as many records -- and they also shouldn't bitch about it, since they should know better. Jase NP: Sleater-Kinney, _Dig Me Out_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:53:29 EDT From: Fred Neutz Subject: Re: Stephen Malkmus don't appreciate the pavement bashing. pavement is one of the greatest bands in rock n roll history. there's no reason to razz on pavement just because stephen doesn't get like liz. by the way, it just so happens that pavement did bring in a great producer/engineer, nigel godrich, who has recently worked with beck on the "mutations" album (beck's finest work yet) and he did radiohead's "ok computer" album (another great album). have you even bothered to listen to their new album yet before slammin the jammin band that i know and love? i doubt it. over and out f r e d ;^) rambled thoughts are fun _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:32:15 -0400 From: Dan Subject: #WCSE/irc and Missy Elliot Plug Quick question...i've been out of the irc loop for a bit, just wondering - is #WCSE on DalNet or Effnet or Undernet? I went to all tonight - and #WCSE was empty...maybe it's bad timing...maybe i don't know what I'm doing..could be either...someone let me know though, i miss real time liz stuff.. ps - I just bought the brand new MISSY ELLIOT album - I swear - this woman knows what she's doing!! IF you didn't already fall in love with her first album, pick this one up - with an open mind. I'm the last guy in the world who buys rap CDs, and this "young girl soul singer ala-Monica and Brandy" does NOTHING for me...like - NOTHING - but when it comes to Missy Elliot - she is *the* Bjork of the rap world! She sings, she raps - and she doesn't steal music from 80's songs and rap over it..(ala-puff daddy and the disfunctional family). Missy is worth checking out - I mean, after listening to her newest album - one can EASILY see how she would fit right in to something like Lilith Fair - - I think someone interested in hardcore feminism in modern music should look into MISSY - she's got some crazy ass meanings behind the word bitch. Might even make Ani DiFranco shiver, and i mean that! She's truly making rap something original again, something listenable and interesting. at the very least - the "SPEAK AND SPELL" segment of the album is worth it - and if anyone does smoke weed out there - not to promote drug use - but if you do it - stick in track 6. You'll know what i mean. at the very least - even if you don't like rap, don't give a shite about feminism - it's trippy as hell. okay, that's my plug - for a rapper - she rocks! Even when I was twelve, Dan. NP - MISSY ELLIOT -"DA REAL WORLD". (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)*(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) Fame and fortune took its toll, He's not the king of rock 'n roll anymore, He's just a junkie redneck. -LIZ PHAIR, "Elvis, Be True". ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #185 ************************************