From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #184 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, June 23 1999 Volume 02 : Number 184 Today's Subjects: ----------------- List stuff [Jason Long ] Kurt ["MrE" ] Chickmail..... ["Sally Mae" ] Stealing Beauty ["Mike Boucher" ] American History X [deadgirl@garbage.com] Stephen Malkmus [Dermich@aol.com] [none] ["M.L.Magdalene" ] doods [Sine Ziegler ] Just wondering. [morg hart ] something takes a part of me... ["Jaime" ] jase's NP... ["Jaime" ] weston song and probably the millionth response to where liz went to college [Danaldj@ao] [none] ["Nicole W." ] Whatever magazine cover [AngelLieb@aol.com] [support-system] live question [Miz Phair ] digesting, one piece at a time ["Cynthia Nagle" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:41:59 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: List stuff dp in nj wrote: >Why did I get Saturday's Digest so early today? Cos of Father's Day? It was >cool cos it didn;t have to be downloaded, though, my disk is running out of >space! >that's it, now I have to read one, that is dated friday, eventhough I >responded to Friday's yesterday, didn't I ? >I am soooo confused now!!! AGGGGhhhhhhhh! I don't think I've ever explained the list's set-up, other than to a few who chat in #wcse, so I just thought I'd take the opportunity to do so now. The list is set up so that a new digest is sent out after every 40K worth of postings or at 1:15 am EST, whichever comes first. If there have been enough posts to the list to trigger a digest before the usual 1:15 cut-off time, another digest will also appear at that time if there have been more postings since then. Also, I know it's come up in the past, where some people have wondered why there have been responses to posts in the same digest the original post appeared in. There is only technically one list -- Support System -- but there are two formats it can be received in. A subscriber can choose to receive the list in 'real time', in which they receive each message individually, as soon as it has been posted to the list. The other is the digest version, which is the format the the overwhelming majority of list members subscribe to. (Of course, this is partly due to the fact that I chose it as a default of sorts. When I first moved the list over to this server, after having run it manually for quite some time, I subscribed everyone to the digest version, seeing as that was what everyone was used to receiving. After that, whenever anyone would send a message to me asking to be added to the list, I'd put them on the digest version as well. If they wanted to switch to the 'real time' option, they could find the information on how to go about it in the welcome message they'd receive upon my subscribing them to the list. I finally got around to updating the subscription information on the mailing list site a little while ago, so now everyone has the option of choosing which option they'd prefer right from the start.) Jase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:47:09 -0700 From: "MrE" Subject: Kurt there are most certainly a number of contributing factors and factorees involved with the demise of the late and exceptionally great artist, Kurt Cobain, of whom i count myself a fan, a loyalist and an admirer (frequently to excess, worrying friends and family (yes...i have both) to the extent that they encourage me to find a living hero). and as much as i feel that courtney has to some extent dishonored the legacy, and as much as i believe in the possibility that certain aspects of courtney's behavior would most certainly have contributed to the severity of Kurt's cyclical depression, and as compelling as portions of 'Kurt and courtney' were (with or without an agenda), in the end, it was simply an overwhelming desperation clouded by drugs that were having a lessened effectiveness that brought down a wizard, a true star. when all is said and done, it is perhaps the one universal truth, the one unswerving surety of live, that we only do that which we choose. may his rest be in peace and his name held above the wretchedness of humanity as a light in a darkened place...he is missed. MrE ~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 03:35:21 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Chickmail..... Momus I'm glad you appreciate Chickmail and it's ventures as long as you also appreciate the notion of feminism behind it *FEMINISM ROCKS* Jaime, I agree that Liz should do a tour with Ben Folds Five but to Australia as well as America. Also according to my friend, who's a fanatical BFF fan, Exile in Guyville is one of Ben Fold's favourite albums hence the cover I s'pose. Ben Fold's wive lives in the same city as me and soon he will be living here too....how cool is that? Regarding what Beatles cover Liz should do, Garbage apparently do a cover of 'Day Tripper' at some shows. Seeya later skids........Sal "Tell me I sold out Tell me I sold out Go ahead " Freak of the Week *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:45:42 -0400 From: "Mike Boucher" Subject: Stealing Beauty DP in NJ: >I have never seen the movie, "Stealing Beauty" and am not really a big Liv >Tyler fan, so i was wondering if the song is in the movie or just at the >endw/the video? I actually just saw the movie this past w/e, and if you're thinking of seeing it just for the song don't bother. Rocketboy is played during the opening credits. In the opening scene Liv Tyler is on a train sleeping with a walkman and the song is playing, but that's it for the whole movie. The video is at the end. The movie is okay, but if you're not a Liv fan then I wouldn't recommend it. If you like her it's worth it, since she's by far the star of the film. Anyone: >i thought that was interesting, especially considering all of the talk >about liz being a pain, like the candles and incense story from NYU. Can someone tell me what the 'candles and incense story from NYU' is all about? I'm curious to hear that story. Also, I've asked this before but no one answered. What the hell doe 'NP' stand for at the end of many people's posts? Just curious. Peace out, Bouche ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:03:26 -0500 From: deadgirl@garbage.com Subject: American History X good movie, good good movie, go see it if you haven't already. and a question, i know this probly has had it's disscussion before, but is liz playing any lilth dates this year? or anyother? cuz all i know about her touring is my friend saw her open for alanis in febuary. thanks love, peace, and all that hippy crap, Taryn Sexi, the off the wall angel, and free thinker "life's to short to be pissed off all the time"-danni, "american history X" - ------------------------------- To get your free email account, go to: http://www.garbagemail.com Garbage Merchandise Now Avalailable Online at http://www.garbage.com Garbage Mail is a service of Electric Artists and OneSoft. - ------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:10:27 EDT From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: Stephen Malkmus Stephen "we're neither Sonic Youth nor Seth Green; we just play them on the radio" said about Liz: "Whether or not her music has any merit, I think she's just a pain in the ass and I imagine she's expensive financially to keep around. So Capitol can do their best with her. It's gonna be an uphill battle, but more unlikely people have had hits." I don't know whom I'm complaining to here, since it's likely more people agree with me than old Stevie on this list, but JESUS who the FARG does this asshole think he is? He sounds like Courtney Love bitch-fighting with Marilyn Manson. Pavement is the archetypal '90s slacker-rock band, complete with faux thrift-store clothes (probably purchased at Gadzooks) and pseudo-lackadaisical lyrical delivery that are ALL every bit as studied as Kiss's makeup and platform boots. They're doing the same thing as Beck, but just don't have the Dust Brothers producing them (along with Hanson) to create an MTV hit out of their lame crap songs. What Pavement does is EVERY BIT as much an LA commodity as what he's implying Liz is. They look for "indie-rock-type" actors for cereal and soda pop commercials--look at a copy of Backstage some time. Pavement are playing a character that's a HELL of a lot less original or interesting than the strange box of quirks and contradictions that is Liz Phair. Stephen Malkmus can go suck my armpits. Although Liz can probably be a pain in the ass as well. ; ) Derek http://loveamongpuppets.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:42:02 PDT From: "M.L.Magdalene" Subject: [none] Did i tell you guys about about my epiphany that Liz should cover some Lou Reed yet? And that GUYS just don't seem to understand LIZ....Well...SOME OF THEM>......ick.. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:10:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Sine Ziegler Subject: doods hey, I know this isnt Liz related, but is anyone going to Edgefest?!?! Speaking of movies, does anyone know if the recently released video "Next Stop Wonderland" has a Liz song in it ? About a year ago, I was watching the previews on TV for it, and I swore I heard an Exile song. - -Sine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:58:38 -0700 (PDT) From: morg hart Subject: Just wondering. >I have never seen the movie, "Stealing Beauty" and am >not really a big Liv >Tyler fan, so i was wondering if the song is in the >movie or just at the >endw/the video? At the end w/the video? Is the video for Rocket Boy at the end of the movie? (You know how they do that sometimes.) Would someone please tell me before I run out and buy it? I have seen every Liz video except for that and Supernova, so please lemme know. And is Liz really not gonna make another video because they're "too expensive"? Even on future albums? That would be a shame. Thanx. Morgan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:15:43 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: something takes a part of me... >Was Phair a devout R.E.M. fan? >"I wasn't a fan in the sense that I would be waiting for their new album to >come out, but I've always really loved their sound. And I always thought >that Scott did something really special with them because they came from >really chaotic beginnings. Their music was so emotional and not very rigid >or organised. It had a painterly feel to it. Scott Litt had a way of keeping >that alive yet still organising it, and bringing it into a pop form. Wow. I'm having a flash-back-- I think I just posted something like this-- in so many words... An uplifting post from Sally said: >Excuse me Jamie but I happen to be a senior school student *high school in your terms* so are you saying I'm >not worthy of seeing Liz live?? Anyone in highschool, who is a liz phan... is surely welcome at all liz shows. But if I walk into a liz show, and I'm mobbed by 365 kids jumping off a bus and running in behind me, and they're all trying to get the front row... pushing-shoving-screaming-making-out... They all have hair-cuts just liz and if one of them asks me to buy them cigarettes... I'll just go insane. Because, you see what will happen?-- I'll buy the ultra-menthol lights for the girl and her friend, and I'll get busted by their mother and end in jail or something else unpleasant. I'm only kidding Sally--and all other highschool liz phans-- I look forward to meeting you all at concerts... You must be cool if you listen to liz. I just dont want liz to ever be at equal status with 'Spice Girls' or anything. And on the subject of Kurt-ney --- I think we really have to look at every angle since no one really knows the truth except those involved. Could be conspiracy... could be simply a tragic suicide... but dont you think it is something to ponder... Sort of like my generation's version of Marylin Monroe's death... But with more a Sid and Nancy twist on it. >What beatles song do you think Liz should cover??? >'Day Tripper' or 'Got to get you into my life' or 'I've got a Feeling' >or 'You Never Give me your Money' or.......? >Which era of the Beatles was everyone's favorite?? Me, personally, my >favorite was the whole Sgt. Peppers-Magical Mystery Tour era. Those >were crazy times. 'Day Tripper' would be a good one... I'm partial to 'Happiness is a warm gun' and 'I'm looking through you' But also...bringing up sgt pepper-- 'being for the benefit of mr.kite' would be interesting... I also love Sgt. Pepper's era... but I also love "Magical Mystery Tour" and anything during the 'Paul is Dead' times is super interesting... Thats one thing I love about the Beatles-- they have a story behind their music...conspiracies too. Crazy beatles... Has anyone read "The Long And Winding Road" ? Good Beatles book. >..but instead of blaming it on somebody >else because it's to hard to admit that KURT would do that...why don't we >just accept that KURT was just to sad...and though it fucking sucks and >thoughts of hate probably ran through your blood as it did through mine...he >did it to himself--but he did give us...all he had... Just trying to look at all angles... I miss Kurt as well... Just trying to 'think outside the box'. See I like Courtney too, it's just a story worth looking at from all angles. We cant bring him back, but we can keep his memory alive... some people think she killed him, some dont. I dont have an opinion... I wouldnt deem it impossible either way. >what i'm trying to say is maybe if alt-radio (or modern rock, >whatever...) stations played liz, the stations would be deluged with callers >wanting to know who this genius is and where can they get her stuff and so >on. or maybe with people freaked out and complaing "what is this crap??" >they probably just don't want the hassle. can you see it?? i can. I dont see how that is any different than Ani or even Alanis-- When Alanis hit radio- I'm sure a few called in and asked about her... Just like with Ani now. That isnt why she isnt on alt-radio. >she should cover "Exile on Mainstreet. Yah. Go Nicole. She should team up with Mick and re-create the album-- or maybe tour together, Mick's due for a new cd... Liz is so cool. Congrats on the wedding, Hyphen! Later-- ~jaime* ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ "Always know sometimes think its me But you know I know when its a dream I think I know, I mean, oh yes, but its all wrong, That is I think I disagree..." ~J.Lennon -- Strawberry Fields Forever ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ NP: Korn _Freak on a leash_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:20:27 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: jase's NP... >Jase >NP: Hole, _Pretty on the Inside_ The best album from Hole, in my opinion... Everyone should check it out... I like #3. ~jaime* :<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>: ~"It is recorded that Chinese Taoist recommended the addition of cannabis to their incense burners in the 1st century as a means of achieving immortality."~ <>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>: NP: Pain, _Wonderful Beef_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:18:47 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: weston song and probably the millionth response to where liz went to college Hate to be oh-so -annoying,but can someone PLEASE post the website to hear the weston song, "Liz Phair" again? My old digests, sadly got erased and I never got to hear the song and couldn't find it last night when I went web-surfing. ANYONE out there know the beginning of Headache on the piano? I figure if I am being annoying , why stop? So, if you can Help, please do!!!!!! My life's dream, sadly, revolves around me learning this song, singing it and feeling good about that. Please help this pathetic girl attain her unattainable goals!! And lastly, I know a miilion people will be as redundant as me, but to answer the question "what Ohio college did liz attend?", It was Oberlin College. hey, that should be a question on the new MUSIC Jeopardy! Show on VH1(?, i think it's VH1, but that can't be possible, that would mean half an hour less a day of Behind The Music!) By the way, i kick ass at music jeopardy, not to brag or be like SHANE or anything! ANd now that I am rambling , what the hell is Mr. Pavement's problem? Not enuf spotlite w/Ms.Liz on the same label, if so , he should be happy she's gone and not bitch so much. Maybe he's just trying to start shit. Well, regardless, if you missed the pavement show(as i did,and maybe now you're happy, maybe you're not), well THey are rebroadcasting one of the NYC shows on the internet on July 1 and for more info,check out Matador's site under news. Well, I think that will be all for now dp in nj Eastside yo! (That is the sound of a very suburban white girl, pretending she's hip) HA ha ha ha NP: Sebadoh- Bakesale, esp. "not too amused"!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:26:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nicole W." Subject: [none] >NP: Rustic Overtones _Rooms by the hour_ Jaime, now I know you're a true Maine-ite, cuz I used to have this friend at Tufts who was from Maine, and he was big into the Rustic Overtones. He was from Deer Isle, in case you were wondering. So... Nicole was having such a happy damned summer, and now it's like... ruined. And it's goign to ruin my time in London, and tha'ts a real bummer. It's a real bummer that I let shit get me down so much. "Support-System" does mean that I can come here with my problems and vent, right?? Anyway, yeah I'm just in this awful fucking mood and I have been and I will be, and it's all because of males, and I still hate you even though I thought I had found a good one. Sigh. Okay no one has mentioned this (yet) but there is some sort of giveaway at this online magazine called inkblot, and they're giving away Juvenilia. So if you don't have it yet, maybe try and win it. Fuck I lost the actual URL, but go to www.inkblotmagazine.com or ggo to my site (the news page-- http://www.angelfire.com/ca/DontWalk/liznews.html) and there is a link to it, but i'm too lazy to do that for you all. Anyway, yeah so I'm feeling shitty so I'm going to go wallow inself pity . Later. Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:23:58 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Whatever magazine cover Liz appears on the cover of Whatever magazine, issue 8. The guy who informed me of his Lupo's pictures got back to me, letting me know about this issue. Might want to check out the web site on how to get a copy. The magazine is based in Rhode Island is all I know. http://whatevermagazine.com All the best, Katie ();) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:32:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Miz Phair Subject: [support-system] live question Hi, a friend posed this question to me. And I don't know the answer. Can someone help? Is Liz's current touring drummer from the Wallflowers? paige= _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:42:45 -0400 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: digesting, one piece at a time Hello Lovely Digesters (now isn't that better than the SS thing?), Back from my business trip, and kind of back from lurking, with comments on bits and pieces... (as if anyone cares. Well, maybe someone does.) First off. I have to give a BIG public bow to the wonderful Derek, who's super nice and much fun (and with whom it turns out I have a lot in common, other than loving Liz!) Derek came to my rescue as tour guide and hangin' out friend extraordinaire on the aforementioned business trip. (Larry, sorry I didn't get back to you -- I already had plans with Derek -- but thank you for offering too). All of you who have extolled the merits of meeting fellow listers, you are absolutely right. (Believe me, I know...) What a great bunch we are! I'm getting all verklempt here. Michael Carapella -- hey! I'm from upstate NY too, 2 years older than Liz too, and work in uptight professional services too (CPA firm). Whip-Smart was my first exposure to Liz, then EIG, then WCSE, so I know what you mean by the "in through the out door" method of turning on to Liz. I'm curious: which 8 songs from WCSE did your friend choose to put on the tape for you? I should put you in touch with my college friend from Chicago -- he had a similar experience of trying to break into the music biz, had some brushes with greatness, got sick of the frustration, quit the biz, and now works for an investment firm. You two could swap some stories. Mike Connolly -- it's me, the Skiddie chick... Kansas, Journey, Clash, Animal House, Pretenders, Donnie Iris (!), Silencers (you're the only one on this list I've ever seen mention them!), Skynyrd... I'm having major flashbacks. And Joe Jackson!!! I've loved Joe Jackson for years! Big World, anyone? I choreographed my final performance project for my modern dance class in college to Cha Cha Loco (Body & Soul)... To jump on the BANDwagon, Cheap Trick was my first real concert, New York State Fair, 1982. But way before that, when I was 12 (uh, *even* when I was 12), I won tickets to a local concert from a radio station. My sister (age 11) and I went sans parents to see the Bruce Van Brocklin Band, with another local band called (get this) Locoweed opening. Sis and I were too young to enjoy the concert experience... we stood there with our fingers in our ears, mouthing "BOY this is loud!" to each other. I was a singularly unhip preteen. Dennis Junkoo Kim, re: #177, you're turning into MrE. ("Turning MrE, I think I'm turning MrE, I really fear so..") Ah, this post is far too long. Back to listening to Liz, and extracting all the sadness from it, because that's what my ears are hearing these days... Hurricane Cindy NP: Pottymouth version of Mesmerizing ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #184 ************************************