From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #181 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, June 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 181 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V2 #180 ["Sally Mae" ] a parallel of shirley manson and liz - it would work ["Jaime" ] **Calif. LizPhest - Ben Lee show** [Oh4sythia@aol.com] I Killed Carson Daly and all i got was this lousy t-shirt... ["M.L.Magdal] [none] [Jason Long ] ca lizphest / ben lee [Oh4sythia@aol.com] does this feel good? tell me if it hurts! ["Jaime" ] videos [Craig King ] weird dream about the SS(liz phair) [Danaldj@aol.com] The Goddess live on video [mysticalcrowe@webtv.net (steven thomson)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:02:26 -0700 From: "Sally Mae" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #180 Hey JC the fabulous Ben Folds Five song (they kick ass) is called "One Angry Dwarf and 200 Solemn Faces" NOT "One Angry Dwarf"! To whoever saw Milli Vanilli in concert, I used to love Milli Vanilli too, I've still got their album! I can't believe that Priest guy thinks Lilith Fair promotes homosexuality and that people shouldn't go to it. What a load of crap! You Americans/Canadians are so lucky you get Lilith Fair!! No offense to people on this mailing list but I think the Polyester Bride video is a bit boring, has anyone seen the Hole video for Awful?? It's heaps good! Did you people hear that a 19 year old girl died at a Hole concert in Sweden, that she was crushed to death? How bad is that? Seeya Sal "I have every freedom in the world and I'm writing shit!" *********************************** chickclick.com http://www.chickclick.com girl sites that don't fake it. http://www.chickmail.com sign up for your free email. *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 05:20:11 -0700 From: "MrE" Subject: a beastie boy and the new math >from an animal lover: >hey! i wasn't making this stuff up-- >i'm not that sick! i even remembered >the guy's name: thomas granger >(please someone say that this rings a bell). ...i would tell you, but it wouldn't do a thing for your credibility...ding-a-ling. >i did a search on webcrawler... >all i found was some random guy's >webpage that mentions the same >bestiality stuff (it's at the bottom), but >i know it's true! textbooks can't lie! ...so, is this, uh, the definitive reason for counting sheep when you can't sleep 'cause ya know that the male orgasm triggers an involuntary sleep response...baaahh >my friend Nicole >On a seperate note, it seems my relentless >posting has been quite outdone >as of late by persons such as Dana P >(I don't know which one), Jaime, and >Mr E. Oh well, here's the torch, >it wasn't one I was proud of bearing anyway. ...tis a sad thing to forget our roots. why would i want a used 'torch', in particularly one i had passed to you oh so long ago... >Michael >Hey, glad to be wrong on this one. after filtering in canceled dates and sporadic appearances, and subtracting the Moistette gigs, that leaves us with about, um...three and a half shows. jus kiddin...sorta... now playing for my (certainly no one else's round here) listening pleasure: Catatonia - International Velvet, which is about to be rejected in favor of my friend 'Rayko' whose new release 'Crave' should be in everyone's collection so she can quit having those nightmares about day jobs... regardless Momus ~~ The First Thing I've Got To Do Is To Do Something First )_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_(_)_( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:48:56 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: a parallel of shirley manson and liz - it would work >Who knows, maybe that "glossy" >version would have been something MTV would have embraced -- you have to >admit, Liz's version is, while better than some of her past videos, still a >little too quirky for some tastes. Jase, love the post. I completely agree, except, I am not sad for Liz not becoming mainstream. I do wish she could taste the fame she deserves, and in the same way... I want to keep her innocent and mine, all mine. *Please dont take her and turn her into Alanis.* I want to see cool fans when I go to a show, not hundreds of highschool students. She does not need to be a Natalie Imbruglia... Capitol give her more of the Garbage/shirley manson deal... They arent really mainstream... but they are just enough... Ah, time to hit the bowl and dave letterman... ~jaime* ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ "Always know sometimes think its me But you know I know when its a dream I think I know, I mean, oh yes, but its all wrong, That is I think I disagree..." ~J.Lennon -- Strawberry Fields Forever ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:20:35 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: anyone out there listen to moe. ? Any Vermont lurkers? hello ? >Shortly after WS's release, there was an article in >Rolling Stone by a guy named Shane who swore he was >the guy in the song. Anybody else have more info on >this? I think this sounds like something interesting to read... Does anyone have it, or know where to find it? Someone should post it. Or put it up on their site... Friday night... Tonight had a weird vibe... a stay at home night... I had deja vu all day today. Anyone else? Man it was strange. And hey-- thanks so much Roberta for the tapes, they came out pretty good, and I love the interview. My boyfriend says he doesn't like that version of flower... but he loves stratford-on-guy... I do to, I like the rougher versions of it, and girlysounds -- she makes it a darker song... on eig its more mellow and dreamy. I think i prefer the scary version... But damn, she's come a long way. *I'm so proud of her* Anyone on this list have a june wedding? Is anyone getting married? I love Summer. *strawberry fields forever* ~ anyone else in love with this song? Another Liz thought: I love the "hey you've got to hide your love away" she borrows from the beatles... what a good song to use... She should cover some Beatles. There are alot of Beatles fans on this list. ~"wasted"~ ~jaime* ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ "Always know sometimes think its me But you know I know when its a dream I think I know, I mean, oh yes, but its all wrong, That is I think I disagree..." ~J.Lennon -- Strawberry Fields Forever ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ NP: moe. _nebraska_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:30:55 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #180 In a message dated 6/20/99 2:17:39 AM Atlantic Daylight Time: << thomas granger (please someone say that this rings a bell). >> Yes, I have Heard of Thomas Granger, but don't remember from what or why. <> I have the Ednaswap album- their version of Torn is (obviously) Much Better than Natalie's(but that's not that surprising is it?) I am just so sick of hearing that song in every commercial for every movie that involves a romance plot!! It drives me nuts!!!! It's like that song is the universal love story movie commercial song!!!! It' s so crazy that she became so popular from that song and did not even write it! and most people don't even know that! Did you know that Ednaswap appear on the "Jawbreaker" movie sndtk, along w/the Donnas, Letters to Cleo, Shampoo and the Friggs. <> And thank you for bringing me to my other recent revolving mental note: Does VH1 ever play Videos any more or do they just show the Behind the Music documentaries 24/7? I guess they are following MTV and taking the Videos out of VH1(no more music in MTV). Every time I turn on VH1 , they are showing Behind the Music, it's getting annoying. <> Have to agree with Craig on this one, Call Me would be a great one for Liz to cover. How about Kool Thing by Sonic Youth, she could do it maybe w/Buddy or Wesley Willis! that would be funny! << it seems my relentless posting has been quite outdone as of late by persons such as Dana P (I don't know which one), Jaime, and Mr.E>> Well actually, although I have my spurts of chattiness, I can't take ALL the credit- it's probably both mine and West Side Dana's posts together that have overtaken you, just get another Nicole to start writing lots of posts and you can be just like the all powerful Dana P's (or dp's to really gross you out!) <> Well, if he didn't have sex w/people(no women around, he smelled bad maybe) what makes you think he DIDN"T have sex w/the animals?!! Just a thought. That concludes the response to yesterday's SS. Well for now at least. I have to live up to all this hype now, so I will post later again. O rmaybe as soon as I send this dp on the East side'yo! NP:Nothing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:56:20 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: The "Shane" article Since a few people have mentioned it recently and I remember it being posted a couple of years ago, I decided to search through all of the archived digests I have to find the article by "Shane". It was published by Playboy, not Rolling Stone as someone had mentioned, and although the person who posted it didn't give the date of the issue, I'm guessing it's from late-'94 or '95. I think the article is meant to be fun, but definitely not to be taken seriously. The guy is a little clueless on some details -- perhaps Liz did use his stereo to make dubs of her Girly Sound tapes, but she circulated them to acquaintances, not to "radio stations that gave her the airplay that led to the record deal". But anyway.... IF YOU LIKE LIZ PHAIR by Shane Dubow ______________________________________________________________________ Several years ago Shane DuBow worked as an intern in our Chicago office. It wasn't the first time he had toiled in the presence of greatness. Turns out he used to date Liz Phair. When her first CD came out and we really listened to the words, the idea of a relationship with Phair raised more questions than the songs answered. So we tracked DuBow down and made him give us the scoop. ______________________________________________________________________ It was my tape deck. Forget the riot grrrls and all the power feminism. Behind the success of every rock babe there's a guy, and the guy behind Liz Phair was me. I was the one who loaned her the crucial--dare I say indispensible?--piece of stereo equipment she used to dub the demos she sent to the radio stations that gave her the airplay that led to the record deal and the release of her debut album, Exile in Guyville, which then brought her a fuckload of cash--no, make that two fuckloads--and the praise of rock critics from New York to Seattle. Note, however, where it all started: my tape deck. My mother tells me there was a time when rock babes wrote love songs to their boyfriends--the Carly Simon-Joni Mitchell routine. You can even imagine those boyfriends bragging about it at the bar. Of course, if you've listened to Liz' debut, you know this is no longer the case. Actually, you'd think she had never met anyone who's kind or sensitive or humble. Someone like me. Well, for the record, none of those unnamed Guyville Romeos resembles yours truly. I am not the lame-o who fucked and ran in Fuck and Run, nor the Neanderthal who bullied the stereo in Help me, Mary. Fact is, I gave Liz my stereo. We Guyville guys just ain't bad. I, for one, taught Ms. "I take full advantage of every guy I meet" such survival skills as how to play Let's Get Lost. We were in college. I'd pick her up. We'd drop the top, redline the tach and bomb through the night. The game was to ignore all signs, take turns choosing directions, lose our minds and our way amid the Ohio farmland and then pull over. The way I remember it, everything was goofy and latenight. Liz never mentioned anything about being my--or anyone else's--"blow job queen," never referred to my lips as "perfect suck-me size." I only heard that stuff on the album. Just my luck--she saves the fun stuff for the paying public. All I know is that after graduation we stayed in touch. She came to my mom's second wedding. She named her own folder on my hard drive. When an early Spin review called her a prodigy of privilege, she had me ghostwrite a saucy retort. And guess which dizzy music rag, after receiving said correspondence, named Exile its album of the year? Sure, Liz seems self-sufficient--that's the nineties rock-babe shtick. But take her lyrics, best known perhaps for their profanity. Where the fuck do you think she got that fucking stuff? Or take her second album Whip-smart. The fifth song on it, I happened to notice last time I signed something, is also my name. Now, everyone knows it's the title of the fifth song on the second album that makes or breaks a rock star's career. If Liz rode my coattails any harder, she'd be a water skier. All this neediness, it gets to be a drag. This Shane song, it's about a night we spent together in Chicago. She was an unemployed slacker. I was a way-cool writer with an incredibly important assignment to report on the club scene. Out of pity, I invited Liz to tag along. When I wrote "we watched," I was referring to Liz and me. I gave her that, the plural pronoun, her first fame. Now she's exploited it, that night, my name, to catapult herself to the top of the rock heap. Ingrate. Sure she leaves backstage passes for me. Sure, she asked me to help with a spot on MTV. But did she invite me to read my fiction as an encore? Did she ever show her gratitude through her wallet? Note to all men: If ever your girlfriend grabs a guitar and a four-track, copyright your name and lock up your diary. It's too late for me. That's why I've now retaliated and written my own little ditty, a glossy commercial kind of thing. Real catchy number called If You Like Liz Phair, You'll Just Love Shane DuBow. Any day now I'm going to be huge. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:41:09 EDT From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: **Calif. LizPhest - Ben Lee show** Hello, this is about earlier plans for a California version of LizPhest. So I'm posting it to the list and sending it to the few California-listers that I have e-mail addresses for. If you're from California, please read this & contact me so I have your e-mail and can give you further details. Back in January or so, Melody (melodious19@juno.com) and I were noodling around with planning this LizPhest. We got as far as saying we should hang out in the central location of Santa Barbara (window shopping, lunch, dinner, etc) and then catch some sort of concert. As for what concert... that's where we got stuck. Well, a certain Australian singer/songwriter has saved the day... yes, ladies and gentlemen . . . . . . .BEN LEE . . . . . . is playing in Santa Barbara. Under perfect circumstances too - it's at the Yucatan, a small restaurant/club on State Street (downtown shopping mecca). No pre-sale tickets, they're not expecting people to line up early (people in SB don't know who he is I guess, Elliot Smith played under the same circumstances at the Yucatan a few months ago). $8 a ticket, it starts at 9:00pm. The only drawback?..........well, he's playing.... june 21. Yes, that's Monday. Tomorrow. So I don't know how many people can just drop everything and show up in Santa Barbara. It will be SO cool if a few can make it though - - even just four or five would be great. I'm thinking we'll designate a time/place for 1. a late lunch 2. late afternoon coffee or ice cream (really just a meeting spot for the sake of meeting late arrivals) and 3. dinner And then of course meeting outside the Yucatan 8:00ish. So if people have to go to work and then drive up later, there will be 4 different times to meet up with the Liz group. Because of this, I think it's feasible, despite the fact that I'm giving only half-a-day's notice. SO... IF you're from California, PLEASE seriously consider joining us tomorrow. I'll send out an e-mail bright and early in the morning to tell everyone how many people I'm expecting, when I expect to be there, where we'll meet the first 3 times, and directions from the 101 to State Street, Santa Barbara (these are INCREDIBLY simple so don't *even* worry about getting lost even if you've never been to SB. I can brief you now: Carillo exit, drive towards the mountains on Carillo, drive toward the ocean on State.) Please e-mail me ASAP with questions or to let me know you're coming. If you see me on AOL.IM you can talk to me that way too, oh4sythia of course. Take care, Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:23:33 PDT From: "M.L.Magdalene" Subject: I Killed Carson Daly and all i got was this lousy t-shirt... > It wouldn't be possible. The Sheryl Crow list I'm on tried >this with one of her videos and did it work? NO! Okay....don't yell at me cause i've actually watched the show a couple times(HEY! SOMETIMES you can see a FRACTION of a video that you MAY like...you know..like KID ROCK)but am i the only one who caught the big like..conspiracy where New Kids on The Block...Hangin' Tough was number 2 for like a week? Another song I'd love to see Liz cover is "Call Me" by >Blondie. I think that song would fit perfectly with Liz. Another brilliant idea... Just Trippin-- M _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:13:07 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: [none] dp in nj wrote: >I really agreed w/a lot of Jason's points on Liz and the whole exposure >thing, but i just want to say... I am happy with liz at her current status of >popularity. >I like having her all to myself, in most cases. >I DON''T want to hear LIZ on Top-40 radio back to back w/Brandy, Will Smith, >BSB, and Shania. and Jaime wrote: > Jase, love the post. I completely agree, except, I am not sad for Liz >not becoming mainstream. I do wish she could taste the fame she deserves, >and in the same way... I want to keep her innocent and mine, all mine. >*Please dont take her and turn her into Alanis.* I want to see cool fans >when I go to a show, not hundreds of highschool students. She does not need >to be a Natalie Imbruglia... Capitol give her more of the Garbage/shirley >manson deal... They arent really mainstream... but they are just enough... Well, I too don't really want to see Liz become massively huge, but I really wouldn't mind seeing Liz reach a greater level of popularity than she has now. There are a number of artists out there, such as Beck and Hole, who sell a lot more albums than Liz does but still can't exactly be deemed 'mainstream'. You don't really see them played on top-40 pop stations; they do, however, receive a lot of airplay at modern rock radio and have their hits there, which is something I wouldn't mind seeing for Liz. Hole's _Celebrity Skin_ is nearing double platinum in sales, and all of Beck's DGC releases have gone platinum -- it just amazes me that Liz isn't among their ranks. I do like what Jaime said about Garbage -- they're another good example of what I'm talking about. Honestly, I doubt that Liz could crack the mainstream in a big way -- she's never going to be Shania Twain or Alanis Morisette -- but it would be nice if she could at least flirt with it to the extent the other artists I've mentioned have been able to. I'm still puzzled that Liz hasn't at least done better at Modern Rock radio. Hole has had three hits at that format so far from their current album, and I don't think Liz has even had one chart there yet from WCSE (at least in the top 20, anyway), which is surprising to me since the new album is more accessible than her past ones, and Liz has done well there in the past with "Supernova" and "Whip-Smart". Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:17:32 EDT From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: ca lizphest / ben lee Okay, about my random last minute plans for California Liz Fans for tomorrow... I don't know where you guys are on this; I understand that few people will be able to deal with this sudden thing, so... I just needed to write again to say that I might not make it out to SB until early evening anyway, so I'll just see what kind of response I get and in the morning I'll send an update to all who e-mail. We'll pull a more organized, more official (though, alas, ben-lee-less) Liz Phest later in the summer, I hope. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:45:27 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: does this feel good? tell me if it hurts! >>Attention Liz Phair Fans! >>Don't miss Liz Phair when she plays at Lilith Fair on the following >>dates: >>DATE CITY VENUE >>8/14 Detroit Pine Knob >>8/15 Detroit Pine Knob >>8/17 Cleveland Blossom Music Center Have these been posted ? Either way... it's liz content. I wont be gracing Lilith Fair, seems the girls have decided to skip Maine, not that it matters, because I would only have gone for Liz. Jerry Fahwell is the asshole of the month again, I see. Is all that bible shit true? But seriously, who cares what Lilith represents, and who has the friggin time to research it ? That guy needs a life. I saw "Kurt and Courtney" this weekend, I was in quite a haze, but I do remember finding it disturbing. Kurt was truly one of the most 'human' of all celebrities. He was true to himself and I really respected that about him. See, now I'm pissed... because if she really had something to do with his death, I would hate her and want her burned at the stake. But I like her, I sorta respect her too... and I'm proud of the way she handles herself now. I dont know... I suppose we'll never know the truth. Enough rambling...Hey anyone heard "Angry Salad" ? Well, I have heard some songs. And anyway, my point was... two of the guys in that band are from Maine... And "Rustic Overtones" I believe they are too (I'm was having a conversation with a friend about Maine musicians) -- I remember going to Rustic shows when I was younger. We had this club... Act 1... I like Rustic... "Iron Boots"...Good music. Okay, enough stoner-talk... "...I just cant stop running into things..." --rustic overtones ~jaime* ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ "Always know sometimes think its me But you know I know when its a dream I think I know, I mean, oh yes, but its all wrong, That is I think I disagree..." ~J.Lennon -- Strawberry Fields Forever ~:~:~:~:~:~:~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:01:44 -0500 From: "bh" Subject: Shane > >Has anyone ever seen that western movie Shane? I always wondered if the >song "Shane" had anything to do with the flick. I mean, since we're on >the discussion of Shane. I haven't seen the movie. I'm thirsty. K I'm >back but I realize it's later than I thought, so I gotta jet. Oh well. Shane is a guy who went to college with Liz in Ohio and then also wound up in Chicago with her around the time that the big buzz started up with her... He was also the real "author" of the notorious snide letter that Liz wrote to SPIN magazine (and was printed in the letters page) after a lukewarm review. Shane actually talks a lot about Liz and their college days in a story he did for Playboy Magazine in 1994 or 1995 (The magazine had a "Women in Rock" issue). I have no idea what happened to my issue but it may be online somewhere...... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: videos I was just watching some of my old videos that I've taped through the years. I have like 5 tapes full of just music videos that I've taped between 1993-1999 and I just feel like listing my favorite all time top 5 videos ever made: 1. Beastie Boys - "Sabotage" 2. Stone Temple Pilots - "Big Bang Baby" 3. Liz Phair - "Supernova" 4. Scott Weiland - "Barbarella" 5. Metallica - "One" Well, that's it from me. Craig "AdRock" NP: Metallica - "Master Of Puppets" _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:54:24 EDT From: Danaldj@aol.com Subject: weird dream about the SS(liz phair) See when I think of SS, the only thing I associate it with is something like a ship - the SS Liz Phair- it sounds like a cruise liner or something. well anyway, I had this dream about Support system (the mailing list) this list! It was strange in my dream , I must have written one of those controversial, piss people off posts, cos I remember that I was really stressed and mad, and someone actually wrote a post, saying "well she seems to be really stressed and probably didn't mean to offend or piss so many of us off." And in the dream, when I read that, I was like, "YES!! That's exactly it!" And I guess that just totally parallels my real life in many ways and tells you, me and my boyfriend that I am spending way too much time reading and writing to this list. Well, Nicole already spelled that out for us anyway. But I always find things that I am really into or thinking about (as I have been doing a lot w/the liz content from this digest) come into my dreams. So anyway, it was funny to me and yet , it seemed sooo realistic and maybe a little scary, too. Well that 's all my liz content, except: my bfriend is going to Chicago tomorrow and he will be hanging out in an upscale suburb, so I told him to look out for Ms.Phair- Any particular record shops he can go to to get me some rare liz stuff? Any suggestions out there? Anyone, ? Beuler? ok, I am gone dp in nj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:22:07 -0500 (CDT) From: mysticalcrowe@webtv.net (steven thomson) Subject: The Goddess live on video I went to a record show today in Houston and picked up a video of the Goddess Liz Phair performing at Northern Illinois University on April 12 of this year. It just blew me out of the water. The opening combo of "Chopsticks" and "Fuck and Run" was awesome, despite some rather shaky camera work. But most of it is pretty steady. The set lst is awesome. I love "Firewalker"!! Liz looks absolutely wonderful and she seems to be having a good time. Was anyone on the list at this show? So if you have a chance to pick up this video, you should do so. Sorry, I have no duping facilities, so don't ask. I'm glad to see Mr. E posting again. I think any digest that doesn't include Mr. E or Nicole lacks a bit. Liz please come back to Texas!! You owe us the show you cancelled in November.---Steven T. ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #181 ************************************