From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #151 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, May 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Replies [Jason Long ] re: liz acting [Grlapaluza@aol.com] Various answers to unasked questions [Mike Connolly ] appearance [ken_davis@putnaminv.com] Built to spill ["keelyfish" ] Send the digest to a new address. [o0lqc@qcvaxa.acc.qc.edu] more covers ["dana polachowski" ] Call me an idiot....oh well... [AngelLieb@aol.com] built to spill [John Kim ] PhFest Stuff [Meredith Robbins ] RE: support-system-digest V2 #150 [Kelly Warner ] jewel=vomit ["Jaime" ] Re: ramble on [baggytrousers@mindspring.com] Liz covers [Craig King ] Re: I'd like to hear Liz cover... ["John A. Johnson" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] pics [Craig King ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 03:20:39 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Replies Just a bunch of responses tonight... Don wrote: >How would you think of Stratford-on-Guy without the Charlie Watts-inspired >drum bit at the intro ? To me, the intro always reminded me of the drumming on XTC's "Making Plans For Nigel", as I mentioned recently on the list. Then one night on #wcse, I was talking to Steve about it, and while he agreed about the similarity, he also said that there are a lot of classic rock songs that utilized that same drum sound/pattern before XTC used it. As for Charlie Watts' style, I'd have to go back and listen to my old Stones albums again -- it's been quite a while since I've played them, and when I do, I usually pay more attention to Keith Richards' guitar than anything. >Just gotta say, Brad Wood has really been an amazing partner for Liz, even >with ups and downs. Brad rules! I wholeheartedly agree with this. I really do think that the recordings Liz has made with Brad are her most inspired in terms of production and arrangement -- he really does seem like her ideal creative partner. Thankfully, it seems like they've resolved any conflicts they've had in the past. During a lot of the promotional interviews for WCSE, Liz had said that while early on she felt that a lot of people gave him too much credit for her success, since going back and listening again to the first two albums, she realizes how invaluable his contributions were. He's always done a good job with helping Liz bring all of her creative ideas to life. When I met Liz in Toronto, I told her a little bit about this list, and I casually mentioned that Brad was a subscriber to it (I guess maybe to give the list some credibility, since she seemed unfamiliar with forums like this). Afterwards, she told me that Brad had stuck with her through so much and had always been great to her. I was really glad to hear her giving him props like that; it seemed definite then that there was no longer any bad blood between them, which leads me to hope that they will continue to do more work together in the future. Brad's likely my favorite record producer, and he and Liz have done some excellent work together. If Liz does continue to branch out and work with other producers, though, I wouldn't mind seeing her doing some recording with Mike Denneen, who has done some amazing work in the past with Jen Trynin. He has some pretty distinctive ideas of his own that still seem like they would mesh well with Liz's musical approach. One last thing about Brad, at the Lounge Ax show, another list member (I believe it was Jill, but my memory could be failing me) was telling me about a then-recent radio broadcast that Brad had been on, talking about some of the work he had done with Liz. I don't recall all the details very well, but one of his stories was about the recording of "Mesmerizing", during which he had said he was the most sober person there and even he was pretty far gone, something like that. I'll let whoever it was who told me provide more of the details, but it sounded like everyone had a lot of fun during those early sessions. Nicole wrote: >I just checked my *old* e-mail account and even though I un$ubbed from that >addy, I still got a digest? Weird. Nicole, your unsub message didn't seem to make it through somehow; at least, I never got anything here, which I usually do whenever someone unsubs themselves from the list. Don't worry though, I've taken the old address off now, so you shouldn't get any further digests at your old account. Janet asked: >As for Lilith Fair - who's going? I've been debating about going to the Detroit show, but I just don't know if I'll be able to make it or not, and I'm afraid to buy tickets that I might not end up using. I'm hoping the show doesn't sell out right away, so I have some more time to make a decision. I was originally going to be moving around the time of Liz Phest, which was going to prohibit me from being able to make it there, so I thought that I might try to make it to Lilith instead if Liz were playing. As it turns out now, I won't be moving until August -- right around the time of Liz's dates on the tour. Katie wrote: >Ohki...got the Lilith cds, both of them. Kinda disappointed in some way, >having to pay for *each* cd instead of the double disc they did last year. I'm actually kind of grateful that the compilations were sold separately, and not as a set. I'm not that familiar with a lot of the artists on the two CDs, so I probably would have been a little more hesitant to pick up a two disc set just to get Liz's song. I generally don't mind buying a single CD that Liz has contributed to, such as all of the soundtracks she's appeared on, but it does get a little costly after a while, and there's not always a lot of other music I'm familiar with or like on them. I can see where you're coming from, though; usually 2-CD sets retail for much less than two individual discs. Perhaps a solution to this would have been for the label to give the buyer the option of buying a set of the CDs or purchasing them separately. Maybe this is something that someone can suggest to them for next year, if they do another set of compilations with performances from this year's tour. Caitlin wrote: >I would love to hear Liz sing about masturbation. It seems like that's the >one taboo she hasn't nailed yet (or has she?) Actually, Liz has already, in her cover of "Turning Japanese". It's not exactly politically correct, but from Liz's self-penned bio for _Juvenilia_: A video? Jim Ellison thinks we should put these round TV screen helmets on our heads and rock in front of a sea of bouncing hip-hop cars (low riders) so that our faces -- singing vocalsm -- can turn into anything we want. But then he asked me if I knew what the song was really about, and then explained that it's about this guy who is locked away in prison and has covered his walls with photos of a woman about which he masturbates and hence "turns Japanese" because his face is contorting as he climaxes. Aly wrote: >now who is it that's selling the 2 cd set of the wcse demo stuff on ebay? > >i don't think this is cool at all. After reading this, I went to check it out myself. Thank God it's not Ken's CDs, but rather the '96 Shelved Demos/Studio Recordings split onto two CDs (it would easily fit on one, for the record). This is still lame, but it'd be even more so were it a set of Ken's discs. The only people to receive those discs are people from this list, who I would hope would know better than that. Jase NP: Liz, _Juvenilia_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 05:46:50 EDT From: Grlapaluza@aol.com Subject: re: liz acting >will Liz ever be in a movie? >she's obviously interested in film; she's directed >some of her own >videos. people have called me nuts about this, since if she IS in this movie, the role is uncredited and i have been unable to confirm it with anyone in director kevin smith's camp (he has a web site, http://www.viewaskew.com, and he posts sometimes) but i swear to God i saw her in "mallrats" (1995, i think). at least, it is someone who looks a LOT like her. there is a scene where the two main characters go to this strip mall, and they are on their way to see the topless psychic (yep, this is a dumb dumb movie although i like it in the same way that i like "better off dead") and the girl who looks like liz is kinda standing around, reading a comic book and wearing a baseball cap. check it out and tell me if you see what i'm talking about. anyway, i feel quite sure that if liz had actually been in this movie, she would've talked about it. but, you know, maybe not. maybe she thought the movie was so stupid that she didn't want her name associated with it. but it was filmed in minneapolis, not too far from where she lived, and 1994, when it was filmed, would've been right after she released "whip-smart" so she probably had a good buzz going (from the album, i mean). i think i will bravely go to kevin smith's WWW board and just ask. (i've asked before, with no response) i think we should gather this list of covers and send them to liz...her fan mail reader would probably get a kick out of it...heh alice ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 06:32:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Connolly Subject: Various answers to unasked questions <"the night chicago died" (?) Paper Lace <*Or that song by that 80's chick band "Maybe I'd like <...The track was mixed by Tom Lord-Alge,... This guy is everywhere. He mixed the album I'm previewing right now, among others I have recently enjoyed. <***** NP: That "Whoo-Hoo!" song on the radio - Blur? Subject: Built to spill Whoa slow down there. Built to Spill is one of my favourite bands, buddy. I'm sorry, flame me if you'd like, but your post was ridiculous. You said: there's this guy greg (greg@m80im.com) who's been signing alot of guestbooks in the liz phair webring...only to advertise for built to spill. he didn't even bother varying the entries--they're all exactly the same! I say: Well, what the fuck. Apparently Liz Phair endorses everybody's Liz Phair page or action then, eh? This Greg Guy is not a member of Built to Spill. I have met some pretty fucked up Liz Phair fans, but they don't represent her. How incredibly inane of you to blame a band for their fans actions. You said: anyways, i did watch built to spill on conan because i had heard about it earlier in the week, and i was VERY disappointed. the music was okay, but...the band's appearance left alot to be desired. I say: Glad to see you know what's important. You were expecting it to be bad because you were mad at this greg person. No matter if they'd come out in Versace suits, you'd have disliked them. I guarantee it. You say: sad to say, but the music industry is very visually-oriented. built to spill's lead singer was already balding, and had a full beard that made it look as if he belonged in a cabin. the drummer was emotionless, and reminded me of thom yorke of radiohead. one guitarist looked like that guy from the cure. I say: Oh my god, I just can't express how pissed off I am about this. You use the words "sad to say," but you are by no means saddened at the superficiality of the music industry, cause there you go on your little tirade about their ugliness. Just because someone is balding does not mean they can't play the guitar like nothing else and write incredible songs. He can, in fact, write incredible songs and play the guitar in a cabin if he so desires. Emotionless drummer? You try to be animated while playing actual complicated drumming on a national television show. The reason why other bands' drummers are so smiley is because they're not playing anything difficult. There's like a stock drumbeat for current popular music, and BtS isn't playing it. If Liz Phair were ugly, she'd still be damn good. You say: now i wouldn't be so pissed off about this had someone not used my guestbook as their personal advertising space. actually, i'd still be pretty po'd because i had heard alot about the band and they didn't nearly meet my expectations. I say: What a bastard thing to say, really. The guy has nothing to do with the band! Good Lord! Get over your goddamn guestbook! You say: i must vent somehow. i'm not saying that they had to look like rock stars, but the least they could have done was put on some clean t-shirts. I say: Perhaps that's not the image they're going for. I dare you to tell the Sex Pistols to go put on clean tshirts. How about the Rolling Stones? Motley Crue? AAARRGGHHH!!! That was the most petty and childish and rotten post I have ever in my whole life seen on this list. It tops even the most hateful things said about Alanis. I'm just stunned. Sorry, list, about the rant. keely ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:55:15 EDT From: o0lqc@qcvaxa.acc.qc.edu Subject: Send the digest to a new address. Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:55:13 +0200 (IST) From: Andrea Steiner Subject: Send the digest to a new address. To: support-system@smoe.org In-Reply-To: <199905240515.BAA07504@smoe.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE From=20now on, please send the digest to my hotmail address at: Glamgrrl77@hotmail.com Thanks, Andrea *<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>= * =09"I've got to tear my life apart and go west, young man." =09=09=09--Liz Phair *<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>= * ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:03:14 -0700 From: "dana polachowski" Subject: more covers ok, ok; here are a couple-three more songs i think would be a hoot for liz to cover: "brick house" (the commodores) "lady marmalade" (labelle) "gypsies, tramps, and thieves" (cher, at her ultracheesy '70s best) also maybe "fool in the rain" or that iggy pop song where he says "i'm bored....i'm the chairman of the board(bored)..." i'd love to see her in a rainbow wig. dana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:04:10 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Call me an idiot....oh well... For some reason, I had this feeling that it was one E and not two! Grrrreat! Sorry Jaime! I feel so stupid now. How about Liz doing some comedy movie? Oh yeah...me went searching for a b-day card for my mom and what could be better? I found a card with Tra La La on the front.. should try to see if I can describe it, since she's in the next room.... On the front: Happy b-day! Tra La-La-La Inside: For the price of a card, you were expecting some fame cantor? Anyhoo...sorta Liz content...got my mom a copy of EIG. As for pictures from Liz's recent tour, I provided links to the pages from my info page. http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Birdland/9820/lizinfo.html What else? Yeah, me laughed my head off this morning with the outcome of Star Wars. Didn't live up to the expectations of making $120-$145 million dollars in five days. I pretty much predicted it would be like this after hearing reports from theaters around the nation. Oh well, whatever. Still hope the movie will brainwrap so I can get a clip of the film to hang up on my wall proudly. Or shall I give a clip with Ewan McGregor on it to Nicole? Hearing wedding bells in my head, KL ();) NP: Liz at the Lounge Ax 3/14/99 (I love this version of Polyester Bride!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:16:28 -0400 (EDT) From: John Kim Subject: built to spill right on. built to spill are one of the best bands around right now. and their lead singer is probably the best guitarist in indie rock today. there is absolutely no comparison. the songs he writes are incredible. i saw them last thursday, and they played almost 2 hours of pure excellence. i highly recommend buying everything they've released, starting with the new album, KEEP IT LIKE A SECRET, which doesn't have a single bad song on it. i heard that they sucked on conan too, but the song they played really isn't one you'd like to see on tv. big hug. john kim email: jjk50@columbia.edu aol IM: puppechase ____________________________________________ "two inches or a yard, rock harder if you're sagging. i ain't too proud to beg, nah!" --lisa left-eye lopez tlc ____________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 99 05:08:15 -0400 From: Meredith Robbins Subject: PhFest Stuff QueenB880@aol.com wrote: >Anyone know? Good luck with Lizphest on the Mall >today, i have serious prior engagements for today...a very special day in a >young girl's life. :) Sigh. You're getting your first period? Congratulations are in order, I suppose. So I know you've all been waiting with bated breath (wating with baited breath, too) to find out how Saturday's DC Liz PhFest went. I'm too punchy from lack of sleep to provide anything approaching a decent account of the day, so I'll simply state what, to me, was the highlight of the event: Dr. Wei, Taiwan's leading Doctor of Cosmetology, wandered with Mall with a face full of acupuncture needles. All five attendees got their picture taken with him. It was down right wacky. As soon as the pictures get developed and scanned, I'm planning on setting up a little webpage devoted to the event. Stay tuned. Must needs sleep now, Meredith +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "On rocky islands, gulls woke." --Esther Forbes, "Johnny Tremain" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:16:07 -0500 From: Kelly Warner Subject: RE: support-system-digest V2 #150 Whoever wrote in and said that Built to Spill sucks...why don't you grow up?! All of the reasons you listed for Built to Spill sucking were trite, superficial and juvenile. You even said yourself that the music was "okay," although you certainly shouldn't place any real judgement on their so-called lethargic single-song performance on Conan. But, the rest of your rant about BTS was almost purely based on physical appearance...about Doug Martsch's balding and bearded look....I believe you stated that he looked like he belonged in a cabin...and about how the least they could do was put on clean t-shirts. And according to you, it's "sad to say," but the music industry is a visual medium as well as audio (or whatever it is you were trying to say)...you know, there are plenty of people out there (myself included) who judge a band on their sound, NOT the way they look, the way they dress, or their age, etc. etc. etc. Since you obviously haven't noticed, BTS is an amazing band that utilizes witty, profound lyrics, unique arrangements and catchy hooks. Of course, I'm sure BTS is not for everyone...I wouldn't classify myself as a HUGE fan, although I do enjoy their music quite a bit. This isn't just about them. I think it's silly and unfair to insist that everyone in the music biz should be beautiful and young (with a full head of hair). We'd miss out on an immense amount of great music if that were the case. Speaking of which, would you dismiss Liz Phair so vehemently were she not slim, petite & gorgeous? Would you like her music if she was pudgy, greying and not-so-stylish in her manner of dress? I have a distinct hunch that she wouldn't be at the top of your list, if you would even condescend to give her the time of day. Give Built to Spill a chance. And any other band that doesn't meet your aesthetic standards. You're missing out, big time-plus, your superficial snobbery makes you look like a buffoon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:31:19 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: ramble on >In any event, I think it would be pretty schwangy to see Liz >in a movie. I could totally see her as a villain though (I tend to be one of >those people who think villains are usually more interesting). Yeah, Robbie... the problem is... if she were a villan I am sure someone would make her the stereo-typical stalker/psycho love gone wrong girl... If she were in a movie, I'd like to see her play a meaningful part. Like an abortionist or maybe something auto-biographical --- a womans struggle to make it in the music biz... who knows- i'm just rambling. >I agree with aly - if you are selling Ken's Cds....I can't even put my >disappoontment into words... that sucks. Who is this stupid? Listen money-hungry moron... We here at Support System are prepared to beat you down for this! I hope Liz spits on you... whoever you are. >Oh Jaimee! Today is Jewel's b-day! Wanna celebrate?! Sure... I'll light a pile of Jewel CDs and six teeny-boppers on fire...Maybe I should mail Jewel my orthodontists phone number... or some diet pills... or a pipe bomb... Yeah, that was just mean.... *giggle* ~Jaime* my fortune cookie-- "You are busy but you are happy." :<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>: ~"It is recorded that Chinese Taoist recommended the addition of cannabis to their incense burners in the 1st century as a means of achieving immortality."~ <>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>: NP: Blink182 _Whats my age again?_ "the state looks down on sodomy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:39:40 -0400 From: "Jaime" Subject: jewel=vomit No joke-- Jewel makes me sick. If I met her in real life I would beat the shit out of her. Swiss-miss-bitch! Her music is so inspiring-- I put a CD of hers in last week, and I'm bulimic now. I use her CD to keep my girlish figure. I wish she was homeless again. Her music is marketed towards 12 yr old girls... she is the next step after barney and those "diverse" teletubbies... She is as smart as a melon. I would be willing to bet that if you peeled off her scalp, underneath would be cantaloupe or something. "My hands are small I know..." --Drewel I'm sorry Drewel fans... but a few years from now, the swiss-miss cloud with clear and you will see what I mean-- when the pawn shop wont even take her CDs. ~Jaime* *inviting all flames in for a drink* - -<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>- "I only get high about twice a day, It helps to keep my blues away..." --Bran Van 3000 -<<>>- "Downer Surrealism." - --Frank Zappa, on Steely Dan - -<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>-<<>>- NP: dinosaur jr _feel the pain_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:51:58 -0700 From: baggytrousers@mindspring.com Subject: Re: ramble on | Yeah, Robbie... the problem is... if she were a villan I am sure someone |would make her the stereo-typical stalker/psycho love gone wrong girl... If |she were in a movie, I'd like to see her play a meaningful part. Like an |abortionist or maybe something auto-biographical --- a womans struggle to |make it in the music biz... |who knows- i'm just rambling. why does this sound like it would be on sunday afternoon on Lifetime? id be afraid she'd turn in a laughable performance..not that i dont trust her acting skills, but..singers...actors/actresses....they date....and sometimes they doont even seem to do that well, nevermind doing both themselves...ummm..did that make sense? roberta ICQ #27407066 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I may be an adult now but i was shocked to find out how much of my youthful idiocy was still entact .....you may be part of society now from the eyes of a 15-year old but I'm completely still sitting on the fence between in and out, and us and them. -Liz Phair ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:09:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: Liz covers Somebody mentioned songs they'd love to see Liz cover a few days ago. These are some songs that I'd personally love to see Liz cover: "Pennyroyal Tea" - Nirvana "I Am The Walrus" - Beatles "The Date" - Scott Wieland "I Can't Fight It" - Tom Petty "5 String Serenade" - Mazzy Star "Still Remains" - Stone Temple Pilots A side note for any Alice In Chains fans. I just heard the new Alice In Chains single, "Got Born Again", which is amazing. The boxed set comes out in September and the single will be officially released to radio next month. Craig "AdRock" RIP Owen Hart _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 20:21:27 -0400 From: "John A. Johnson" Subject: Re: I'd like to hear Liz cover... On Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 12:37:38 -0400 "Caitlin Lane" wrote >Subject: I'd like to hear Liz cover... [...] >I would love to hear Liz sing about masturbation. It seems like that's the >one taboo she hasn't nailed yet (or has she?) Are you kidding? Listen to the lyrics of "Baby Got Going" on WCSE! - --John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:14:55 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: caitlin's comment <"I Touch Myself" by the Divinyls <"Caress Me Down" by Sublime < Subject: pics I just wanted to let everyone know that if you want to use my Lounge Ax pics and Mandell Hall pics on your sites, please feel free to, with my permission. But PLEASE EMAIL ME FIRST, just to let me know. I know originally I had on my site that I only wanted the pics on my site and my site only, but I just feel now that was a mistake and I want to spread the pics around and let everyone see them if they haven't already. All I ask is that you provide a link to me site if you use them with my permission. Here's the link to my photo gallery at the Phair Territory site if you'd like to use the pics: http://www.phairterritory.freeservers.com/photogallery.htm Craig "AdRock" PhairTerritory http://phairterritory.freeservers.com R.I.P. Owen Hart 1965-1999 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #151 ************************************