From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #140 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, May 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 140 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V2 #138 [Talula9695@aol.com] Tapes ["JJ Cooper" ] Record Labels... ["Tim Sanderlin" ] Cinco de Mayo chords [Dennis Junkoo Kim ] Re: Liz boots on e-bay--again [Greg Bishop ] 2-Ply [Juvenilia@aol.com] my 2 cents ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] brussel sprouts [Ken_Davis@putnaminv.com] Bliss & Fetish Girlysounds (good luck) [palik@ix.netcom.com] feet or foot? [Ascending to the Stars ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #139 [JJewelbaby@aol.com] carnivore 7' [MLevine171@aol.com] Ebay again and time for a top ten???? [AngelLieb@aol.com] listen to firewalker ["robert joyner" ] CDR stuff n stuff [Tokeepme@aol.com] reasonable? [Tokeepme@aol.com] tabs tabs tabs ["jeF kearns" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:18:39 EDT From: Talula9695@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #138 If anyone would be nice enough to introduce me to the world of rare Liz stuff, especially girlysounds, I'd be forever greatful and give you my first born child.......so please, please, please reply....someone!!!! Jackie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:35:25 -0400 From: "JJ Cooper" Subject: Tapes Hi guys and girls, I would never bid on any boots on ebay...I just think the paying for live performances beyond the cost of the duplication in some way is wrong toward the artist, although I gladly have tape traded with other fans on other lists. Now my predicament...My Liz collection consists of only the four commercially produced CDs (Juvenillia, WCSE, EIG and Whipsmart). I would love to at least build up my collection with what seem to be the essentials. (Girlysounds, Pottymouth Girl, WCSE outtakes, and a couple of live performances). Can anyone help me at least get started along that path? Thanks to everyone, this is an extremely fun list to just lurk in. JJ Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:43:52 +0000 From: "Tim Sanderlin" Subject: Record Labels... Thanks to whomever reprinted the article from the NY Times about the record industry... it is all true. And, yes, it is VERY scary... I recorded an album with my band Coincidence in early '95 and had an "independant" British label release it in the UK. When they wanted to release it here in the US, their parent label (which will remain nameless, but their initials were CBS) told them and us "No. It will never get airplay on American Radio" (Since then I have worked at a few stations and I know this not to be true) So b/c of this, an album that sold 70,000 copies in the UK and elsewhere in Europe was NEVER RELEASED IN THE US b/c they said it couldn't get radio airplay!!! Can you fucking believe it??? So now, as many of the musicians in the article, I am trying to form my own record label. It is a lot of fun, but it is hard work!! One good thing, though... B/c our contract was with Shrew Records (now defunct) and NOT technically with CBS (so the courts just said about 8 months ago) we are being allowed to take posession of our master tapes. The only problem is that the bass player and I moved back to the states (for seperate reasons) so the band broke up... having the master tapes would really only help us if we were still together. But we kept fighting b/c of the principle of the thing and we were hoping to set a precedent for other bands... Now that we have the tapes we might shop around some indie labels here in the US (Matador?) but since three band members are still in the UK, and I am invloved in radio and another band, as is our former bassist, we haven't been able to decide on what to do. After reading that article, I just had to share a little bit of my history with you, as a lesson for all of you out there hoping to make it in this industry. Stay true to your music and yourself. Don't sign ANYTHING until you have read it over with an entertainment lawyer (our contract guaranteed distribution here in the US, but it also included a clause that all items included in the contract could be made 'null and void' by the label if it deemed such item as "Profit Detracting" I shit you not...) and always get copyrights on ANYTHING that you do and never sign those over to ANYONE... You may have to shop around to a lot of labels before you will find someone who will allow you to do that (in fact, today you may never find one) or you may have to put it out yourself. When it comes to that, you have to ask yourself what you're doing it for. Fame and Money, or the Music? "It's nice to be liked, but it's better by far to get paid" - true, but you shouldn't have to sell your soul to get there either Tim 'the Sandman' Sanderlin "I see myself in circles, do you see me? - Coincidence ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 03:08:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Dennis Junkoo Kim Subject: Cinco de Mayo chords well, just because i have whip-smart (being whipped smarts!) in my player at the moment, i'll give it a shot: ugh. my guitar is horribly out of tune. damn. i wish i still had that tape of liz phair on 120 minutes playing "cinco de mayo". i wonder what happened to it. well...although it's kinda hard to play on my acoustic (electric is downstairs) i would say that the intro chords are A and E, played in an A shape barre chord at the 12 position and an A shape at the 7thth, respectively. hmm. ok, got the stratocaster now...lessee... yeah. A and E are right for that... A E A E A E cinco de mayo A E blow out denial A B A B it wasn't fun this time A E letting you go... B B E i'd never been to rome till you smiled hmm. ok, need to work on the rome part... On Thu, 13 May 1999, support-system-digest wrote: > the chords of Cinco de Mayo on his guitar. I told him that it didn't > sound anything like the real song and that he should just borrow my CD > and figure it out. Does anyone know the chords to Cinco de Mayo, so I can > put my brother out of his misery and then actually be able to sing along > when he plays? > - -- "A'nta baka?" -Asuka d. www4.ncsu.edu/~djkim2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:47:19 -0700 (MST) From: Greg Bishop Subject: Re: Liz boots on e-bay--again Sorry to be so militant, but, TAD wrote: >Although I did bid on this item,I did not win. Like Charles Lewis I'd rather >have anything I own on CD,not tape and although even I think I'm crazy for >bidding high on this particular item I don't see anything wrong with anyone >doing this. I happen to like collecting original boots,which as we all know >are hard to come by. And how(please tell me) am I hurting Liz by doing this. >If I'm hurting her then we've all hurt her by every little boot that we've >gotten over the years. Well, lookat this: I didn't happen to see SSD#136 (either I erased it or I didn't get it) so I don't really know how things turned out with the rest of the list people. TAD said that he had no problem with seeing Liz Bootlegs on eBay. This is so typical of people these days who think that nothing is sacred, not even honest fans who try to help each other out in a grassroots kind of way. We don't make any profit off of bootlegs. I don't see how that's "hurting" Liz. It's WRONG to get something for free from a well meaning fan and then sell it for a profit. If you produce something original & try to sell it, or it's just an object or product, well, that's capitalism & it's OK. Profiting from other people's labors of love is TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, SOULESSLY WRONG. There are no excuses. The fact that the material is unauthorized & Liz (& Matador) make no money on the sales is doubly insulting, even if it's only a little bit of $$. We don't make ANYTHING on trading these tapes/ CDs. We don't WANT to make anything on them. No one else should either. In fact, I commend TAD for his trading philosophy. Ken Lee went to a lot of trouble to put together the WCSE demos CDs. I don't think anyone should be allowed to sell them at a profit. We should come down hard on these profiteers by telling their bidders that the Support System members will dub them tapes for the cost of postage. Look up their e-mail addresses, it's simple. To Paul Erickson: I bought my first CD boot from Bliss & Fetish & he was fast & courteous. I must tacitly agree with you that 20-25 bucks is OK for a first-timer, but 50, 75, 100 dollars is completely out of line. These E-bay people should be undercut & stopped. I have a job & a life. This is not about jealousy. The e-Bay Liz boot sellers are PARASITES.If the fact that they are getting the prices that they are gets back to anyone from the record industry, we'll all suffer, just like "john c." wrote in SSD #139. >By the way the Secretly Timid CD sold for $157.00 not $140.00 on Ebay Either price is disgusting. Greg B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:52:37 EDT From: Juvenilia@aol.com Subject: 2-Ply Hey peeps.... RAYMOND said: > i don't think anyone ever vists my webpage, I beg to differ, Ray. I visit your site quite often as well as the others (the ones I know about anyway). Your site is unique since it possessed tablature. A lot of people requested that I add tablature to my Liz site, but since I don't play guitar (well, anyway) I don't know how to create it. Anyway, just wanted you not to feel like you have a website that no one vests any interest in. NICOLE... I agree... taking Liz's water ball is a bit on the psycho side. Awhile back, one of the stage crew for the last Paula Cole concert I went to gave me one of the scented candles Paula used on the stage. I took it, but then I thought... "What do I need this for?" To this day, it just sits in my closet shelf. JASON... I haven't forgotten about you. I have an Aimee Mann tape waiting to be sent to you. Also, do you know how this compilation with Jen Trynin's "Sad Girl" can be found? Is it readily available in stores or do you think it's one of these albums that will be hard to find? Okay, I'm shutting up. Robbie THE SLICK DIVIDE http://valmccown.com/lizphair.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:39:31 PDT From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: my 2 cents Youze guys, I've been sitting back reading all the posts about e(vil)-bay and I think some people are forgetting one simple fact - no one is twisting the arms of these people who pay outrageous amounts for bootleg cd's. Either they are really interested in owning what they are buying or they are not informed enough to know that they can probably get what they want if they were to explore a little further (this list for example). This is to say I'm not in favor of someone making a killing off a cd that you could probably get for cost but, this is America (capitalism) we're talking about here. And I totally agree that if you can't find it legit, (as in released by a major label,) that you should have every right/freedom to buy it from someone who can supply it. Believe me, I do support an artists' right to make money off of what belongs to them musically, but, I also support/appreciate what some of us are doing here (making copies, cd's, whatever) of stuff that is either not commercially available or just too damn hard to find. I mean I have been giving away the WCSE flats that I bought for nothing, not even postage. I'm not looking to make a profit, just sharing the wealth with like minded Liz fans. What goes around comes around. Now then, in the spirit of freedom, I once again offer up some Liz WCSE promo flats at no cost to you. Yes, I still have a few left. Only 1 out of 16 got lost by the post office in the last mailing (sorry B-day Katie! I will mail you another one!) so your odds of getting one are pretty darn good! Just e-mail me with your address and I will send it off. Alot of people were asking what they could do for me in exchange for these, and I think I replied on here awhile ago that a cd or quality tape copy of Girlysounds -or - even better, Liz live, would make my day , * BUT NO ONE HAS OFFERED TO MAKE ME ONE SO FAR * (hint, hint)........ so please if you have gotten a flat or want one, remember, you can never have enough Liz and I want more! OK, Who has mp3's of Firewalker, Don't Apologize and/or Conversation on their person or website? I want to hear these songs that everyone else is raving about. Please e-mail me and lemme know! Paul wrote: >I don't mind posting web addresses for people who are selling CD-Rs >of liz >demos and live bootlegs, but I'm not going to give up this >information if >people from the list are going to get all over these >guys. I would be interested in seeing what else is out there. If the list as a whole doesn't want to see this, then e-mail us who do. Nic-'ole dirty bastard tempted us by revealing: >I hate it when I think someone has pirated something off my website, >but >I'm not going to mention what and whom, because that will get me >into >trouble, Oh please, please, please tell us. I'm in a bitchy mood and I need to vent on someone. I'm sure we all want to know, right Listers? Besides, trouble with who? And again Nic-'ole dirty bastard shocked us all by saying: >I mean, it was a plastic Poland Springs water container. That Liz >drank >out of. I mean, I feel like it's a little obsessive and >stalker-ish to >take something like that. >A guitar pick is... a little less... psycho. I mean, Liz plays guitar, and >this is a pick she used.. it's like a souvenir. But her >water bottle? >That's like keeping her toilet paper or something. ROTFL Arrrggghhh! Come on Nicole! You probably could have sold it on e-bay for serious wads of cash! But seriously, what about us poor slobs who would kill for a water bottle that Liz had her lips on! (Sigh) And they even ASKED you if you wanted it?!? And you still said NO!?! Set lists, picks, broken strings, water bottles, toilet paper...... Anything! Give me Anything! Get what you can folks! I still have every single concert ticket stub I ever went to, all the way back to 1977. Hell, at an Allman Brothers concert I went to, Dickey Betts was throwing out cans of Budweiser from a six pack. Well, one hit the floor in front of me and I popped it open and drank it. I wish I kept the can tho', would have been a great memento.. Speaking of which.... NP: The Allman Brothers Band - The Fillmore Concerts (possibly the greatest live album ever made) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:39:47 -0400 From: Ken_Davis@putnaminv.com Subject: brussel sprouts Hopefully those who I mailed directly with my question, won't mind the bandwidth I'm wasting by asking the group at large... I was listening to my old Phairities tape from the old mailing list (circa spring of '96) and I was listening to that great duet (who is that guy she sings with? He has a cool low voice, like the guy from the Wedding Present..as opposed to a lame low voice like the guy from Crash Test Dummies)..you know the one: "He told me how well I could dance Then his hand slipped down the back of my pants" In one part of the song they say something like "In our past life we were brussel sprouts" Well here's a fun site, where you can check to see if you were in fact brussel sprouts in a past life http://www.3dom.com/pastlife.htm I was a pewter candle stick I ran it for Liz's birthday and ended up with: Diagnosis: I do not know how you feel about it, but you were sorta female in your last earthly incarnation. You existed somewhere around the territory of modern West Africa approximately in 1275. You were a bronze gong. Your brief psychological profile in that past life: Ruthless character, carefully weighing decisions in critical situations, with excellent self-pace and strong will. As such you were generally liked, you were not always loved. Lesson, that your last past life brought to present: Your lesson -- to combat violence and disharmony in our world, to understand its roots and origins. All global problems have similar origins. This comment.. >But her water bottle? >That's like keeping her toilet paper or something. Had me thinking of that part in Slackers where that psycho girl has Madonna' pap smear in a jar. Ughh. Ken - - wearing a BLACK armband ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:24:28 -0500 From: palik@ix.netcom.com Subject: Bliss & Fetish Girlysounds (good luck) I have the Bliss & Fetish CD of Girlysounds (I was CDs #5 & 6). The quality sucks ass. Pat Oltraver obviously doesn't know diddly about using digital noise reduction, as he actually ADDED noise. Many tracks are simply unlistenable. Like amplified fingernails across a chalkboard while you are trying to hear what the song sounds like. I have the analog tapes too from Jase, so I listen to those. I hope (but _seriously_ doubt) that he re-mastered them since 1996 when I got mine. He took 6 months to master them (i.e. kept my $ for 6 months before sending the CDs), so I doubt he re-did them. Plus, you can't read the back covers with the titles, and he lists them out of order (although numbered correctly). Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 17:46:54 +0000 From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: feet or foot? okay, something liz related (yeah! yeah!) apparantly liz can't make up here mind as to whether it should be "six feet one" or "six foot one", although she consistently says "five feet two" ( i think). on the tape of town hall nyc 4/25/95, she sings "feet", but in recent shows (avalon, 10/6/98) she sang "foot". of course off the top of my head i can't remember which she sings on the album (please dont' slap me upside the head), but i have to say i think "feet" sounds better. okay, time to go home and get dressed to go out and drink absence (any hemmingway fans out there ) tootles! (:ruthie:) NP-- baby liz, town hall nyc, 4/25/95, the show i should have been at, but mommy wouldnt let me go. WAHHHHH!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:10:26 EDT From: JJewelbaby@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #139 Hey everyone! I keep reading about Liz's new songs, like "Don't Apologize," or "Firewalker." Having not seen her in concert since last summer, I have not heard any of these! Would some kind soul be willing to make me a tape of these newer songs? I would be very happy about that! :) Just email me privately and maybe we can work things out? I may even have something to trade, so please get in touch with me!!! :) Thanks, Julie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:55:23 EDT From: MLevine171@aol.com Subject: carnivore 7' YES!! I JUST WON THE CARNIVORE 7' for $27 on ebay. I went back to see if my bid was still up since like last week. I was pretty sure it wasn't, I HAD 8 mins left, so I bid $27 on it, and won!! YEESSSS!!!!!!! STEVE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:50:11 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Ebay again and time for a top ten???? I don't mind ebay at all, but what I find so sad about it is knowing I've gotten so many of the items through a trade. I've won a few things from ebay, but you have to know your limits on the items I think. Another thing is some of the items you can get for free like the bumpersticker I have posted on my page or you can walk into a store to buy....Ben Lee's Grandpaw Would. I would never dare dream of biding on an item that's on tape for some reason cuz you could probably get someone to make you a copy. Anyhoo...feel like thanking everyone who has made me a cd at cost or through trade: Ken, George in CA, Mark, John and Aly. A top ten of the three new songs along with WCSE demos (Ken's cds): 1. Firewalker 2. Blood Keeper 3. White Bird of Texas 4. Conversation Overheard Between Two Bouncers 5. Don't Apologize 6. Bars of the Bed 7. Hurricane Cindy 8. Tell Me You Like Me 9. Russian Girl 10. Greased Lightning Looks like we have a good album to look forward to! I'd also include KB's duet at the Lounge Ax, but does that qualify? Speaking of the Lounge Ax...Liz talked about Natalie Merchant before Supernova. I had no idea what she was talking about at first, but since I have a Lilith tape labeled with Natalie on it, but she's not singing Supernova with Liz! So I'm figuring she's dancing around of course. I love how Liz has four guest singers during Divorce Song. Sarah McLachlan you can easily pick out. Who's the "birthday boy" at the 4/19/99 show again? I know you're on this list, remember reading your review about asking Liz to sing happy b-day to you. It cracks me up everytime I listen to the tape! Six more days and I'll be screaming...... Just jive talkin' that's all KL ();) "I'm going nowhere, somebody help me," The Bee Gees. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:09:53 PDT From: "robert joyner" Subject: listen to firewalker for those of you curious about how the new song firewalker sounds check out my site. i have put up a mp3 of liz performing this song at wellesley college. let me know how it sounds. i'll try to put up don't apologize in the next few days. Nashville - A Liz Phair Website http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8529/index.htm robert joyner Mr PPV RVD _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:24:57 EDT From: Tokeepme@aol.com Subject: CDR stuff n stuff in reply to all this stuff, people going back and forth about which bootlegs are ok to sell, and when, and where. i think people spending $150+ on anything are crazy. but whatever. it's not hurting anyone. it's not hurting liz in any way. but i DO think it's TOTALLY wrong for people to SELL bootleg COPIES. it's a COPY. who cares. you can copy a cd for a buck. people should not charge $20+ for copies of junk. i trade my cdr's even trade, just like i do tapes. i put all the stuff i have on cds, but if anyone has the bootlegs like fuck and run and pottymouth girl and secretly timid on the origional cd. (or one that's been only copied cd to cd), i'd like to get cd copies of those. please let me know if you can do this. ~aly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 22:29:14 EDT From: Tokeepme@aol.com Subject: reasonable? << I think it is totaly reasonable for people to pay $20-$25 for a CD-R of something you can't find anywhere else. It's a bargain considering the time it takes to burn the CD. >> $20 to $25 is horrible! time? well, it takes under 74 mins because cds can be no longer and all you have to do is press record, that's it. takes absolutely no time. buy in bulk and cds are under a buck. i would never pay so much for a copy. the real thing...i'd consider....maybe ~aly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:39:44 PDT From: "jeF kearns" Subject: tabs tabs tabs Hi. This is jeF. I was just wondering if anyone could give the tab or chords to that one song on the Pharities tape (i think it's called Wasted - it goes like: all the people we all know are wasted away on a holiday , everywhere these people go they're wasted ...) etc. Also: i know i asked this before, but i really want to learn Beginning to see the Light also. So, if anyone could help me out with either of these two songs it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Be Well, jeF. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #140 ************************************