From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #69 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, March 10 1999 Volume 02 : Number 069 Today's Subjects: ----------------- drag racing, colors, other stuff [Oh4sythia@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V2 #68 [Nick Nelson ] wading in ["tree shadow" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #68 ["Nicole W." ] wcse ["Bryan Moore" ] woo hoo! [Ascending to the Stars ] more colors ["dana" ] the more that I forgot earlier... ["Nicole W." ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #67 [DiskoBoy23@aol.com] Me again ["Nicole W." ] Webcast archives [AngelLieb@aol.com] All of the colors ["Joseph H. Weber" ] A goose! A tiny little goose! [Meredith Robbins ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:50:47 EST From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: drag racing, colors, other stuff Today I was driving my friend home, and OUT OF NOWHERE, absolutely nowhere, she said, "Let's draaaaag race." A Big Tall Man Moment. She does not listen to Liz at all, people. She may have heard the song once or twice when I first got the CD. Neither of us could explain why she said that. In response to whoever wrote: Jaime wrote: << I must ask, did this someone else have concrete evidence that the color wheel was what she was referring too ? You see I am sooo completely open to hearing interpretations (making them to),--- but I hate it when people get one idea in their head and will not let another possibility enter that closed mind. >> Hey, don't worry over it, Jaime - the person said the colors *were* from the color wheel (as I did first, though I am not an art student - hehe, go me), they didn't say Liz WAS DEFINITELY conscious of that fact. He/she did list some reasons why Liz might have used color-wheel pairs, but they paired them with the key word: PERHAPS. So it's all good. On a different note, the other day my English teacher mentioned that many authors seem to have first novels that are very, very autobiographical, and then after that they go off on characters much further removed from their own experience. We were talking about J.D. Salinger's _Catcher in the Rye_ vs. his later _Franny and Zooey_. It made me think about how some critics really dwell on the idea that wcse is more a collection of character sketches or stories than Whip-Smart and Exile, saying those two earlier are more long stories about Liz. Is that a valid point? Or not? And does that have something to do with this autobiographical first novel syndrome? I don't know... just speculating... Leslie """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" "this is the noise that keeps me awake my head explodes and my body aches" -garbage Well, it didn't explode yet but it feels weird... """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 01:40:31 -0800 (PST) From: Nick Nelson Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #68 >From: Oh4sythia@aol.com >. . . Does anyone have >any Bettie albums (it's a group, not a lady)? I kind of like the cuts on the >What's Up sampler, and was wondering if the albums are worth getting. Hi, I have all Bettie Serveert's LPs except the new Velvet Underground covers one, which is at the top of my get list. I'd start with their first LP, Palomine, but they're all good. And this is as good a time as any for my top 5 (or 8, or 10). No special order. 1. Television - Marquee Moon. 2. Dream Syndicate - Days of Wine and Roses. 3. Throwing Muses - 1st LP (or the In a Doghouse reissue). 4. Henry Cow/Slapp Happy - Desperate Straights. 5. Replacements - Let It Be. 6. The Mekons - Rock and Roll. 7. Gong - Shamal (to be honest, this probably wouldn't be on a serious best of all time list, but I can't get enough of it lately). 8. The Fall - Dragnet. 9. Sonic Youth - Evol. 10. Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime. and a few dozen more, but you're probably already bored. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:47:26 -0500 From: "tree shadow" Subject: wading in ok if i repeat some stuff feel free to move on. true i think that WCSE is definatly more produced, wait thats an understatement, super produced. it does at times seem like the focus was on making the album more accesable. im not fully informed about why liz has remarked that this is the only album she can listen too or something, maybe the content makes her happier, maybe she was more comfortable with the topics. who knows? in general it is a departure from WS and even more from EIG. she seems to be focusing not as much on the rage (my opinion) but everyday life. i personally love WCSE, i think it is a progression from album to album, like all artists who reinvent themselves over time (take REM for example). sure she's going to cause discussion by apparently moving in this direction, but is it a necessarily a bad thing? i mean its not like she has totally cut off every thing from the past. the whole colors thing, is uppose its too simple to say she chose some colors because they rhymed or fit metricaly. so, i think the color wheel explanation for the orange, blue, green and pink, is pretty good. i thought it interesting she used pink (baby girls?).the first time i heard the song and the line "purple, yellow, reddish brown/once i felt you i couldn't lay you down" i immediately (and still) thought it was a bruise. i mean if you think about when you get bruises they look like that and you certainly dont touch them. oh, unrelated but i think one of the most sexually charged lyrics i've ever heard by her is in this song "Don't be shy, baby, don't be careful with me/ Let it go, let it soak me down" just inputing. sorry this was so long. steven (i still like flower) from indy "i feel the sun on my back, i smell the earth in my skin, i see the sky above me like a full recovery." liz phair ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:24:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Nicole W." Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #68 Mmm k... for the record (no pun intended) and not to play the devil's advocate (did anyone see that freaky and cheesy movie with Keanu "the only character I can play is Bill or Ted or whichever one I was in that movie" Reeves and Al Pacino?), but it wasn't Liz who removed the "All Wrongs Reversed" thing. It is a Matador thang and since they are now (currenly) owned by Capitol, and it's not a Capitol thang, it's not on there. Cept it's on the umm... whatchamacallit? Promo CD. I don't know what the deal is and why it's that way. Hmm. That would seem to contradict, now wouldn't it? Well anyway... somehow I can blame it on the big corporate poops. Yeah so... one less thing to blame on liz. Cuz for some reason I feel like Leslie, you're going to think this whole post is a flame but IT'S REALLY NOT! Would I flame you? Hell no!! I'll save that for deserving victims... ;) About the color wheel thing... someone was asking if anyone disagrees or if there is any concrete proof of it, etc. Sure, the way Liz lists the colors is color wheel related for four of the colors... but I think counting pink as red and saying that "Green and pink" are part of the same pattern of complementary coloring in the song is kind of a stretch. I think Liz had this list of colors that she was seeing outside and everywhere and stuff, and in those colors, she could see Nick, maybe before he was born. Yeah certainly before he was born. Like she was pregnant and everything she saw was like reminding her of what was being developed inside her. and well... she kind of put the complementary ones together, and then stuck pink and reddish-brown and green in there randomly. in my HUMBLE opinion. Fuck I've got to go to class... One more thing, and if there's more i'll have to post later: >Almost forgot to give you my top five: >1.) The Clash: London Calling >2.) Liz Phair: Whipsmart >3.) Big Bad Voodoo Daddy: Untitled >4.) Love and Rockets: Express >5.) Violent Femmes: Add it Up > >Later, >The Marpusal Geez... if you weren't there, you would have loved the December 1 WBCN concert! It was Love and Rockets, Voodoo Daddy, and Liz! But I came intending to miss Love and ROckets and Voodoo Daddy. Unfortunately, I only m issed Love and ROckets. Sorry! I actually don't know if the4y're good or not, but I knew i wanted to miss Voodoo Daddy and they wre on second and... I don't know. Anyway... I'm not into that swing thing at ALL. Bleh. No offense, of course, right?? Okay late! Gotta jet! Bye, later, so long, i'm gone yadayddayada - -Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 06:34:43 -0800 (PST) From: Space Lord Subject: Liz Bootleg CD's???????? If anyone wants to trade or set something up dor some liz boot cd's, i have some. here's what i have: Liz Phair CD: "Sweet Home Chicago" Chicago, IL 10.27.98 (A) "Another Brick" Minneapolis, MN 10.17.98 (A) "Fuck and Run" New Haven, CT 4.25.94 Toad’s Place (A) "Clean As A Whistle"-Great American Music Hall 12.1.93 "Secretly Timid" aka. the Girlysound sessions _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:42:13 -0500 From: "Bryan Moore" Subject: wcse Hello all............I have a couple things to say about wcse and its comparison to liz's earlier material.....I think that the more produced sound on wcse was/is a natural evolution of liz's sound.....She had to make the change to a more commercial sound, partly due to pressure from her record company and partly due to her desire to become a more successful artist......that aside, matador and whatever major label picked her up(WCSE is in my car, so I cant check), did a really shitty job of promoting and supporting the album......While I do love GS and Exile, I think that Liz's best and most powerful tunes are what makes you happy, big tall man and polyester bride....I admit they are a little over-produced, but when you crank 'em to ten they kick ass.....I also think that some of Liz's earlier matierial sounds a little thin in comparison and could have used a little more production......If I was Liz and/or her record company, I would try to hire Daniel Lanois to produce her next album.....Daniel has produced many excellent artists including U2 and Peter Gabriel and has that produced yet broken down simple sound that I feel would highlight Liz's style and sound...... gotta go....class in half an hour.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh p.s. ---*subliminal message to jase* tape tree......tape tree...Tape tree....TApe tree....*sending positive energy to jase, with continued subliminal vibes*.....tape tree.....end subliminal message ....wow, that was wierd, I gapped out for a minute and look what I wrote....holy shit.....I gotta stop smoking pot so early in the morning.....just kidding, I never, ever do drugs....drugs are bad....except in the proper dosages.. Bryan "Bill Barilko disappeared, that summer....he was on a fishing trip...the last goal he ever scored, won the Leafs the cup...they didnt win another, till 1962, the year he was discovered..I stole this from a hockey card, I keep tucked up under...my fifty mission cap!!!!!.." The Tragically Hip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 15:04:52 +0000 From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: woo hoo! well, i've been out the office (er.. computer room..) for a few days (chilling in cardiff, wales) and i just read a whole bunch of digests, thought of a whole bunch things to respond to, and have since promptly forgot all of them. oh, here's something... i am anxiously awaiting details of liz-fest chicago, cause i want to go if i can! meredith, were i going to be in the country, i would attend your dc-fest, but alas, i believe on may 22 i will be in prague or vienna ( i have a hard, life, i know...) oh, here's something fun to share... i'm going to the bowlie weekender festival!!!! YIPPIE!! this guy came thru with tickets for me, so 3 days after i get back from sunning myself in seville and other lovely places in the south of spain, i am heading off for a weekend of fabulous music from the likes of belle and sebastian, luna, sleater-kinney, and various other cool people. i think liz should play that weekend.. its right around when she is supposed to be here anyways... hmmmm.... uh.. i've really enjoyed the recent talk about wcse (the song) because, frankly, it has always baffled me a little... so yeah! keep up the good work everybody! and someone better be taping the lounge ax show.. cause i wanna hear it!!! okay, i'm leaving now.. gots to hit the veggie market in soho and then go home and do work and cook so i can go out clubbing tonite. i love not having classes on wednesdays.... tootles! (:ruthie:) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:16:30 -0800 From: "dana" Subject: more colors hey all: (re: colors in "wcse") oh, i'm not saying that anyone heard her say "this is specifically what i mean"; i'm just willing to bet money that's why she used those pairs that way. i went to art school too, and when i heard "wcse" i immediately thought "hey, those are the pairs on the color wheel; cool." i mean, when you listen to her words, don't you always ask yourself "ok, WHY did she say these specific words...??" plus, liz is super-brainy and it's almost as if everything she says comes from some ultralogical place, even if she's talking about (yukky) emotions. she always puts a real intellectual spin on everything. so, i'm not saying it's the last word on the whole thing, but when someone else pointed it out i thought "ok, so i'm not overanalyzing here." i'm workin' up to tellin' y'all a story about some people standing behind me at the last liz solo tour (last fall)....(teaser: the girl [it was a couple] was dissin' on lyle lovett....sheeeesh!) dp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 13:02:14 -0500 (EST) From: "Nicole W." Subject: the more that I forgot earlier... Man... Leslie... This is why you're going to think I'm flaming you... Cuz I have even MORE to say in response to your posts... I love Hurricane Cindy. Girls' Room I can do without, Baby Got Going (not to start that thread again) I can do without. But I love Hurricane Cindy. Also, ins't the whole "Fuck You, Gary Gersh: Music for the Vacuuming Housewife" thing that Steve-o K. made up a response to the fact that at teh bottom of all this reworking of the song list of wcse is an evil record company president? I mean... I say that cuz... you say "she cut all those cool ken's-cd's-songs off wcse" in your post. Meaning that Liz cut those songs off wcse. But was it Liz? I don't know. I don't knwo how record companies and things of that nature work. Maybe it WAS liz, but I was understanding it not to be. But what I LOVE is your "imbroglio" tidbit! That's damned funny! I was thinking... if I ever became a star or something, adn people didn't like me, I wonder how they'd rework *my* name! I can't think of anything too funny, but detractors are creative people... (referring to all us alan-ass<-- me, al-anus<-- i don't remember who, moreupset<-- magazine, etc. people) Anywho... yeah. It's good to see that every once in a while I fall back into my old... jillion posts a day, isn't it? Esp. after I don't post regularly for a while? Haha... joke, people. Except for the mentally ill who enjoy my posts... ;) Later all... And someone e-mail me tomorrow to remind me of the webcast, otherwise I'll forget and watch Dawson's and Po5. Thankya, Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:26:38 -0800 From: "dana" Subject: more babbling... another one from me....yikes! anyway, yeah, leslie, that's totally it...about knowledge of the fan base. it's like she's just gonna keep hammering away at this mainstream awareness thing... i had read that she was really intent on changing her sound with "wcse" and i thought "WHY??" so i guess that explains working with all those producers. oh well. although i do blast "what makes you happy" and "headache" over and over again, to the chagrin of all my neighbors. but, hey, it makes me happy! dp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:09:51 EST From: DiskoBoy23@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #67 How much have people been paying for Lounge Ax tickets? Just wondering:] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 18:15:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Nicole W." Subject: Me again Umm... since I never do anything besides sit at my computer, I am sitting at my computer just... searchin' for Liz on "no old links in here/Enter my dungeon of delight" Hotbot and I came across this... Don't know if everyone's seen it before. For the hard core Fan who must see everything, here it is: http://www.raygun.com/L_Phair.htm Bleh. That's all. - -Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 20:28:44 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Webcast archives Just looking this up for those who might not be able to catch the webcast of Liz's performance at rollingstone.com. Just go through the webcast pages and on the bottom, there's the virtual venue archives where you can catch up on it. I'm not sure if they'll add it right away or not. There's bunch of stuff there though. http://rollingstone.com/sections/performance/text/vvarchives.asp?afl=rsn Webcast again is on March 10, at 8:30pm (EST). ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Katie ();) "And now and then, it's clear to me. That need is love and love is need," Sheryl Crow. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 20:10:53 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Weber" Subject: All of the colors Hey there all: Let me just say that I love the observations made on the opening lyrics of WCSE, so don't take this next comment the wrong way. I think this proves that the song, as with anything, depends on your own point of view. So, don't limit yourself to what other people think, come up with your own opinion. Post it if you'd like. If someone doesn't like it, well, that's their opinion. If it really upsets you, shout phuc in a loud clear voice, have a sip of your favorite fluid, and move on. However, if it bugs you that much, you might want psychiatric help:) Later peoples, The Marpusal Rule of life #5043: Don't sneeze near the computer monitor. Rule of life #310: Laugh at things other people don't find funny. (Within reason of course, I wouldn't recommend laughing at a funeral despite what the Barenaked ladies say.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 99 22:13:54 -0500 From: Meredith Robbins Subject: A goose! A tiny little goose! Oh, my goodness. This is so exciting. I, Meredith Robbins, the girl who's always the last to notice *anything*, have found a SUPER-COOL ALBUM THING. Okay, put Whip-Smart on. Cue up "Go West." Fast forward to about 3:15 or 3:16 of the song, just before it launches into "Cinco de Mayo." Turn up the volume. What's that you hear? IT'S A GOOSE! A GOOSED GOOSE! A TINY GOOSE GOING, "HONK!" Oh, I am so damned cool. Come, my children, bask in the reflected glow of my ultra-coolness. Meredith "Gold Medalist in Humility" Robbins +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "They are the affectation of affectation." --Henry Fielding, "Joseph Andrews" eclectricity Exile in Netville ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #69 ***********************************