From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #68 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 02 : Number 068 Today's Subjects: ----------------- wORcse? and other stuff [Oh4sythia@aol.com] all the pretty petals [Slopo@aol.com] liz webcast [Oh4sythia@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V2 #67 ["Lucas Johnson" ] my five essentials [Tiffany M Wilson ] Rolling Stone webcast [AngelLieb@aol.com] moreupset credit ["N. DAVIS" ] WCSE ["Joseph H. Weber" ] Castrating the ideas of others is wrong. Smile! ["Jaime" i think maybe she's trying to be more "palatable" or "appealing" or something. >> I agree - wcse is just not what Liz used to be. I mean, even my sister noticed, and her favorite singers are currently Alanis "Moreupset" and Natalie Imbroglio (I know it's Imbruglia, but imbroglio is an Italian-turned-English word that means, roughly, big fucking mess). She was using my computer last night and wcse was in the cd drive so she played it through, and she said, "This record is sad... I mean, how it is so... nice... easier to swallow than the other ones." And I know that the change is motivated largely by wanting to appeal to a larger audience. wcse was like, total- makeover-for-Liz time, even down to the packaging: liner notes that had lyrics instead of polaroids and stick-on letters, and a cd without "all wrongs reversed" on it. But sometimes it seems like Liz doesn't have a good grip on the standards we (the fans on this list in general) hold for her music. She says wcse is her only album that she enjoys listening to, she cut all those cool ken's-cd's- songs off wcse, and she has plenty of great unreleased songs that she's never considered putting on albums. I mean, Money and Hurricane Cindy are great tunes, but Carnivore's even cooler, and while she won't even put Carnivore on a setlist (she *has* to be able to hear people shouting for it at every show), $ and Cindy got on wcse. Huh? Sometimes it seems like she has to be rescued from herself. What was her title for Whip-smart again? I don't remember, but it was not good. Oh screw it, I don't know if I'm making sense. I'll say what else I have to say: who said: <> because that really freaked me out. I hope that wasn't literal.... ("Oh My God...") I loved Abby's story about Dr. Phair's poster. Welcome to the list, kiddo. (Am I being pretentious in welcoming someone to the list if I've only been on since October myself? Hmmm....) Oh, and thanks for the continuing pink egg input, people, it's great. Leslie P.S. Elliot Smith played a tiny tiny club near where I live on Friday, only I just found out today, too late. Plus I've never heard his music before (besides in Good Will Hunting, and I didn't even know that was him until I read the article today about last Friday's show. I suppose I'll have to get a hold of some Elliot and wait for him to return). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:58:39 EST From: Slopo@aol.com Subject: all the pretty petals i will never get sick of flower. ever. especially "... your lips a perfect suck me size." the trick is to get rid of all the politcs behind music/art. purify, purify, purify! pixie "hey! been tryin' to meet you. must be a devil between us, or whores in my head, whores in my bed, whores at the door, but hey..." ~black francis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 02:04:16 EST From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: liz webcast I finally went to rollingstone.com and looked at the webcast page - now I'm getting excited about Liz being on. Wednesday, right? Just wanted to point out that this month's webcasts are pretty matador-heavy - out of about 20, three are Matador artists: Liz, Chavez, and Bettie Serveert. Does anyone have any Bettie albums (it's a group, not a lady)? I kind of like the cuts on the What's Up sampler, and was wondering if the albums are worth getting. Leslie """""""""""""""""""""""" "I wanna be the girl with the most cake" --Hole (it's stuck in my head...) """""""""""""""""""""""" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 08:11:53 PST From: "Lucas Johnson" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #67 >>Someone help me out. Am I the only person on the list who is immensely >>disappointed when I get a support system digest that does not contain a >>post from Nicole and/or Mr. E? Just wondering. -----Steven I wouldn't say "immensely disappointed". "Mildly perturbed" is more like it. But when I _DO_ get a support system digest with posts from Nicole and the famous Mr.E, it's like a ray of sunshine on an otherwise cloudy day. And dana wrote: >i kind of have to agree with an earlier post (i forgot to get the name--i'm >sorry!) that the whole album is sort of disappointing in some >ways...especially considering what could have been on it. i think that was a >really good point; i'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks this...it really >struck me after i listened to it and then to "juvenilia," especially. her >lyrics are as dead-on as ever (on "wcse"), but something is sort of missing >with the music end of it. "girls' room" kind of hints at that earlier >guitar-driven sound, but i don't know....sorry if i'm making anyone sad, but >i don't think i'm totally off the wall here.... > >i guess she figures that she made one of the greatest albums of all time and >so now she's gonna concentrate on getting out there, and why shouldn't she, >considering all the sucky artists out there who are so huge....know what i >mean? i think maybe she's trying to be more "palatable" or "appealing" or >something. And abbie wrote: >hey- i just joined the list, and i thought i'd just share a couple things. >first, i was wondering what everyone thinks about liz's new album in >comparison to exile in guyville. i actually dont like it as much, personally, >not because it isnt as dirty, but because it just doesnt contain the same >emotion for me. i've been listening to exile since sixth grade, and its still >one of my favorite cds, but whitechocolatespaceegg actually gets on my nerves >after a while. i think its because all of the songs seem very radio-formatted. >i went to see her concert in chicago recently, and i was really glad it wasnt >whitechocolate-oriented. Welcome Abbie! Take off your shoes and make yourself at home! I too think WCSE is inferior to Liz's others, and mostly because of its production. Having just received my WCSE Sessions this weekend (thank you thank you Ken, mo' money in da mail!), I feel like I have an even better perspective on this issue now. It's a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth. It reminds me of my high-school English teacher who said Edgar Allen Poe's greatness was in his efficiency, because there was nothing superfluous in there. Every word that needed to be there was there, and no more. And that describes Liz's earlier stuff too, from Girlysounds through Whip-Smart. Even songs from GS that were redone on the albums (ie Stratford-on-Guy) don't sound overproduced; in some cases, (Whip-Smart) the two versions are like variations on a theme, each perfect. Abbie again: >secondly, (god, you must all hate me now), i was wondering if i could be clued >into the cds and tapes that are occasionally alluded to in the first few >messages that i received. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 08:33:14 PST From: "Lucas Johnson" Subject: oops! didn't finish my post Hee hee, hope y'all get the first part of this (that I accidentally sent). Uh, where was I... Oh yeah, I like the sparer, leaner production of Girlysounds and Guyville. They seem more personal and honest, and less filtered through producers and mixers and blenders and god knows who. I like the super-produced stuff too (ie Headache, What Makes You Happy) but they should be just a part of a blend of songs from all colors of the production spectrum. EVERYTHING (but Girls' Room) on WCSE is super-produced, and a lot of it is just frilly window-dressing that detracts from the elegance of the songs. AND, I hope Liz does more or all of the production for her next album. Brad Wood can do some too, but NO MORE THAN THAT! She knows everything she needs to produce a kick-ass album all by herself, so I hope she gives us a taste of that before hiring some doofus to "produce" her stuff. And Abbie, if you dig her less "formatted" stuff, you will LUV Girlysounds and Phairities, which, if someone hasn't already contacted you about them, i will be happy to dub for you. Love, Lucas ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 99 11:45:57 -0500 From: Meredith Robbins Subject: Oopsie, *again* In case anyone of you weren't already convinced that I am a complete spaz, here I go once again accidentally sending what was *supposed* to be personal e-mail to the whole darn list. I suck! I'm scum! I'm not worthy! Okay, so, anyways... I have no Liz thoughts at the moment, except that I think the Washington, DC PhFestival of Caring and Love is going to be held on May 22, 1999 (because that's easiest for me and I am the most important person in the entire world). If anyone has a problem with that, please please please e-mail me and bitch about it. I don't mean that in a confrontational way; I *want* to be bitched to. I *love it*. (Wow, two Wayne's World quotes in one post. Phew.) Oh, and to the people who have asked what exactly we're going to *do* at this PhFest: I really don't have any idea. If anyone does have an idea, e-mail me about that, too. That e-mail address agin: rrob247@ix.netcom.com Or, if you're feeling wacky: webmistress@exileinnetville.com Or, if you're feeling ultra-wacky: [any collection of letters of your choosing]@exileinnetville.com Okay, over and out, Meredith +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "You cannot fix Dracula by trying to get him to party in the sun with you." --Lynda Barry eclectricity Exile in Netville ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:07:06 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: my five essentials Hey, My five essentials (though narrowing it down to merely five is torture) are: 1.Exile in Guyville 2.Let it Be-The Replacements 3.Power, Corruption and Lies-New Order 4.Bad Moon Rising-Sonic Youth 5.s/t-The Modern Lovers To make it really difficult on myself, I'll now list my five essential songs: 1.Strange Loop 2.Left of the Dial-the Replacements 3.Ceremony-Joy Division/New Order/Galaxie 500 4.Box Elder-Pavement 5.King of the Carrot Flowers Part 1-Neutral Milk Hotel Keep in mind, this is not nearly a complete list!!!!!I could add so many more. (sigh). - -Tiffinatrix "I'm just an ant in Alaska to you." -Liz Phair "All you ever wanted was someone to take care of you. All you're ever losing is a little mascara..." -Paul Westerberg (The Replacements) "This is why events unnerve me, they find it all a different story. Notice whom for wheels are turning, turn again and turn towards this time... Oh, I'll break them down, no mercy shown. Heaven knows, it's got to be this time..." -Ian Curtis (Joy Division) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 20:21:35 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Rolling Stone webcast Just wanted to remind every one of the webcast at rollingstone.com for Liz on Wednesday, March 10 at 8:30PM (EST). ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Katie ();) I'm a little bitch with a big mind. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 18:40:59 -0700 (MST) From: "N. DAVIS" Subject: moreupset credit Hi- I can probably claim first usage this side of the pond, but "Moreupset" came via a British music mag, probably Kerrang!. As for being phlogged, having to drive 400 miles to see Ms. Moisttowlette and a band I saw headline last year in my own town (garbage), that should be punishment enough for anyone. I thought God was giving me a second chance after I missed Liz last year at San Diego State. Later, Norman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 18:54:34 -0600 From: "Joseph H. Weber" Subject: WCSE Hey there all: I love White Chocolate Space Egg. I love all the albums. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in because of the disappointment expressed with a couple of messages in #67. Incidentally, looking for ye Girlysound demos. If anyone can help, let me know. Until then, ciao! Almost forgot to give you my top five: 1.) The Clash: London Calling 2.) Liz Phair: Whipsmart 3.) Big Bad Voodoo Daddy: Untitled 4.) Love and Rockets: Express 5.) Violent Femmes: Add it Up Later, The Marpusal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:37:04 -0500 From: "Jaime" Subject: Castrating the ideas of others is wrong. Smile! Well, Here we go... another closed mind, parading un-declared reasoning for anothers art... ahh, people... I just cant let these things go!!! If you say one person's interpretation is wrong, without proof... I will denounce it! >the colors in "wcse" are pairs of oppositions on the color wheel: orange and >blue, green and red (pink), yellow and purple. this was already mentioned by >someone else...plus, liz was an art student; she'd know the color wheel. I >think she's using the oppositions in pairs like that because it furthers the >point that she sees her son in everything and those colors, grouped like >that, are all-encompassing and inclusive. I think the reason she uses "pink" >and then "reddish-brown" is just to make the rhymes for the respective >following lines. I agree it is the colorwheel, I am also an artist, and I know the colorwheel well. To well in fact. Because, yes orange and blue, green and pink (red), purple and yellow --- These all make sense, except the reddish brown, and actually, the reddish brown makes more sense than pink. Pink is not on the color wheel. Pink would count more as a tone or even a tint.(other artist will know what I mean) Because Pink is a white/red mix... White isn't on the colorwheel. Brown, can be considered the color of the middle (of the wheel) it can also be considered gray. Because if you mix all colors together, thetas what you get. So you see, the theory makes sense. And yes, pink may have been chosen for poetic license. I'm sorry, if this may have been mentioned by someone else, but I must ask, did this someone else have concrete evidence that the color wheel was what she was referring too ? You see I am sooo completely open to hearing interpretations (making them to),--- but I hate it when people get one idea in their head and will not let another possibility enter that closed mind. And unless you hear it from Liz's lips... you dont know. Thats all I have to say about that. Also, I want to say I also love Nicole and MrE... Nice to see some actual personality on this list! You phucken rock phellow Phair phans-- MrE and nicole Sorry, jase, this may hit the list twice, sent it html at first...sorry!!!!!! forgive me! - --Jaime **I've got seven men in the ditches behind me and I think I'm the last survivor*** I ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #68 ***********************************