From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #64 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, March 5 1999 Volume 02 : Number 064 Today's Subjects: ----------------- elite eight + rarities ["Jenny Sayler" ] Music, more music [Anthony Friscia ] Re: Music, more music [Jason Long ] orange*blue*plath*hostility*adoption [Oh4sythia@aol.com] Meringe!?! ["Chipko Arnold" ] not that anyone cares ["tree shadow" ] More tour dates ? [Dominic ] L'aspirapolvere--- Perhaps I should translate into french for you... ["Ja] "the tra la la song" revealed ["jw" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #63 [Dennis Junkoo Kim ] Liz on Daria [tommyk7@excite.com] a good day.. ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] Who needs drugs? ["Jorge (George) Cooper" ] sad story and Polyester Bride on Daria ["David Kelley" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 00:36:54 -0600 From: "Jenny Sayler" Subject: elite eight + rarities Okay, I have been thinking and here are my elite eight 1. liz - exile in guyville 2. jen trynin - gun shy trigger happy 3. joni mitchell - court and spark 4. The Soundtrack to the Wedding Singer (I luv the 80's!) 5. Led Zepplin - Houses of the Holy 6. Sarah McLachlan - Fumbling towards ecstacy 7. REM - Out of Time 8. Ben Lee - Grandpaw Would And my fav liz rarities 1. Blood Keeper 2. You HAve No Idea 3. I'll GEt You High 4. Wasted 5. Go Speed Racer okay that is my input for the day. its a little meager cuz my brain is burnt out on stupid chemistry (like chemicals are important *sarcasm*) Anywho, SPRING BREAK is in 2 days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny If you get invited to your first orgy, don't just show up nude. That's a common mistake. You have to let nudity "happen." http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:22:12 -0800 From: Anthony Friscia Subject: Music, more music >I believe that Tom was only asking for albums that each of us felt were >essential, it wasn't about proving how eclectic anyone's taste is. You may >feel that his selections were "close-minded", but if "alternative rock" is >what he most enjoys, why knock it? It's all a matter of personal taste, >there is no right and wrong. Alright, maybe "close-minded" was the wrong word to use. Maybe even "narrow" would be wrong. I'm just saying that he said he wanted a list of "essential" albums and not "favorite" albums, and I think the two are very different, and my lists of the two would be very different. "Essential" implies to me grounbreaking, or exemplifying a certain genre. Just my interpretation. Like you said "It's all a matter of personal taste", just like my list is a matter of personal taste, not trying to "prove" how eclectic my musical taste is, and I'm offended that you would think so. And contrary to your statement: "that no one here really needs to be told to broaden their horizons" I believe our horizons can never be broad enough, and we should never stop broadening them. I'm not saying you should listen to something just because it's different even if you don't like it. That would be stupid and masochistic. I merely offered alternatives (in the original sense of the world) to TRY. I would never deliberately disparage anybody based on their musical tastes, and I apologize if it it was taken that way. Different strokes...etc. tony Jase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 02:41:29 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Music, more music At 11:22 PM 3/3/1999 -0800, Tony wrote: >Alright, maybe "close-minded" was the wrong word to use. Maybe even >"narrow" would be wrong. I'm just saying that he said he wanted a list of >"essential" albums and not "favorite" albums, and I think the two are very >different, and my lists of the two would be very different. "Essential" >implies to me grounbreaking, or exemplifying a certain genre. Just my >interpretation. Like you said "It's all a matter of personal taste", just >like my list is a matter of personal taste, not trying to "prove" how >eclectic my musical taste is, and I'm offended that you would think so. I'm sorry, I really just misinterpreted what you were getting at; it just seemed to me that maybe someone's taste was being ragged on by someone who thought theirs was superior, and I thought it unnecessary. For me, the distinction between "essential" and "favorites" doesn't really exist. Those albums that are my favorites are "essential" to me -- albums I really couldn't live without. It has nothing to do with their historical importance or anything of that sort. To me, Jen Trynin's _Gun Shy Trigger Happy_ is among the finest albums I own, but it didn't reinvent the wheel -- it didn't start any new trends or change the direction of an existing genre. The songwriting, production and playing is nothing sort of incredible though, and the album holds a real emotional connection for me; it's one of a few that has gotten me through some tough times. For me, that's enough to consider it an "essential album" in my books. (And, for the record, there's only one album I like more, and that's Liz's _Exile in Guyville_.) Clearly, not everyone may be using the same definition of "essential" here. Yours, and I don't mean any offense here, seems like a music publication sort of definition, something along the lines of when Rolling Stone makes their lists of "Essential Albums". >And contrary to your statement: >"that no one here really needs to be told to broaden their horizons" I >believe our horizons can never be broad enough, and we should never stop >broadening them. Well, I will agree with you that it doesn't hurt for anyone TO broaden their horizons, but I don't like when people are TOLD they should or need to, and that's how your original post sounded to me, even though I now know that was not your intention. If someone chooses to broaden their horizons and explore music further, I think that's great, but it should be because they want to of their own free will, not because they are made to feel they should. What good does that really serve? Jase NP: Sleater-Kinney, _The Hot Rock_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 03:16:48 EST From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: orange*blue*plath*hostility*adoption Peter said <<> Nicole "orange and blue" W. That reminds me of something that's been bugging me. White Chocolate Space Egg goes "Orange and blue, green and pink ... Purple, yellow, reddish brown ..." The first four just happen to be the national colors of Ireland. What is the significance of the other three? >> What I always noticed about this colors is that she never says straight RED. She avoids it, tiptoes around it with pink (a symbol of corruption, by the way) and reddish brown (makes me think of scabs - dried blood). The colors are paired in contrasting colors. I mean, when you make a color wheel of six - - red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple - then look at the colors that are opposite each other, you have Orange and blue, green and red... purple, yellow." But instead of saying red she says pink. What's up with that? What does red stand for? And she never says white or chocolate or space or egg. Does she figure that all those colors add up to white (like the light spectrum does, if it was paint, it would make black, of course). Lana was talking about Sylvia Plath: <> Hey, that's crazy... I was obsessed with Sylvia Plath last summer, and I was also reading Pagan Kennedy's zine book at the time, and I kept finding a zillion similarities between those two ladies. Why does Sylvia Plath make you think she's like other random people? Lana, you motivated me to go try to read Sylvia's poetry, because I've only been able to really get into her prose so far - I read her journals a lot, and The Bell Jar is one of my favorite books of all time. Anthony said: My list, in no particular order, tries to get a good sampling of ALL the essential albums out there:> I think your list and message was a little hostile. I appreciated the recommendation at the very end of your message - that broadening musical horizons can be rewarding - but the rest of the message really turned me off. And I happen to already be a "broadener" who agrees with your *point* [not your tone], so imagine the reactions of those who you were trying to persuade! Anyone who sticks to one genre (and especially the author of the top 8 thread!) may have felt insulted. At any rate, this is not an exercise in declaring objective essentials, the ultimate 8 albums of the universe. This is a subjective thread, a Stuck-On-An-Island-with-some-Phair friends-who'd- like-to-hear-YOUR-personal-favorites sort of game. I happen to be saving everyone's top 8's so I can take their recommendations, and by gathering from everyone, I will get diversity of some kind. Chris said: I read an article that noted the background of Liz's biological parents. If I find the article, I'll post that info soon. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 01:59:14 PST From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: Meringe!?! >From: johnny mala leche > >is the rhythm to "Uncle Alvarez"south american(columbian?) Mmmmm, hadn't thought of that before. Come to think of it, it is. It reminds me of the David Byrne album Rei Momo (?) where he had different South American styles for each song. The guitar style is certainly south of the equator and it's put a whole new slant on the song. What civil war was he fighting? El Salvador? Bolivia? Nicaragua? (OK, i know they're not all south of the line). Who is Uncle Alvarez? Did he make up the whole war story as an excuse for his nomad wanderings, did he just up and leave and then make up an exotic story? Has his past been rumbled, like Martin Guerre (Somersby for Hollywood folks). Well done our Spanish friend for bringing it up. The mystery deepens. Cha Cha Cha. "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:01:25 -0500 From: "tree shadow" Subject: not that anyone cares i was watching the mtv bio rhythm on jewel and they had this montage of things like ropes breaking and stuff and one of the clips they used was when in the whipsmart video the devil like character cuts the rope and theres a closeup of it breaking. why do i mention this? i dont know. steven ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:45:25 -0600 From: Dominic Subject: More tour dates ? Hey, will more solo dates be announced for Liz ??? She came to Toronto a while back...but forgot Montreal. Also, like someone else did, I'll give you my current Top 5 : - -Elliott Smith's self-titled album - -Nick Drake's "Time Of No Reply" - -XTC's "Nonsuch" - -Squeeze's "Ridiculous" - -Sinead Lohan's "No Mermaid" Take care ! Dominic Montreal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:22:41 -0500 From: "Jaime" Subject: L'aspirapolvere--- Perhaps I should translate into french for you... "L'aspirapolvere" writes: >he wouldn't have chosen to hurt her in the >first place had he known how badly it would hurt her. she is still deeply >in love with him ("and the license said you had to stick around until I >was dead, but if you're tired of looking at my face, I guess I already >am"--the saddest lines in the song, in my opinion); his feelings for her >are unclear, but I think it is certainly not an abusive relationship. I am truly sorry, but abuse is more than being hit or hitting. Abuse extends far beyond that boundary... Abuse can simply be calling someone a name. Hurting someone intentionally in any-way is in fact, abuse. Also, I believe his feelings are extremely clear in the song-- How could they be more clear ? They had a sexual relationship and tried to make it work... The problem they had was that they didn't get along, they constantly hurt each other... They had all the passion in the world, but as she says "Its harder to be friends than lovers, and you shouldn't try to mix the two..." They just couldn't get along. "But when you said I wasn't worth talking too, I had to take your word on that. if you'd known how that would sound to me, you would've taken it back..." Disagree with me if you like, but I think she is saying that she agrees with him-- WHY ?Because her first few lines parallel this. "And when I asked for a separate room, it was late at night and we'd been driving since noon, but if I'd known how that would sound to you, I would've stayed in your bed for the rest of my life..." They both are hurting each other, without realizing how badly. This is not a one-sided abusive relationship, Liz is dishing it out too. Also, I dont think she is still in love with him, just maybe regret, and her not having a prominent relationship to compare at the time she wrote this song. And anyone who says this was not an abusive relationship, needs to realize that emotional abuse is abuse too. I think I said in my original post that I didn't think he had hit her, at least not excessively. If you still dont agree with me, thats ok. It merely means I dont agree with you, and then that whole G.O.S. can take effect... at least for me anyway... ***JAIME*** ***I've got seven other men in the ditches behind me and I think I'm the last survivor*** ***It took an hour, maybe a day, but once I really listened, the noise, just went away*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:18:14 -0500 From: "jw" Subject: "the tra la la song" revealed "the tra la la song" for those who aren't aware, is actually the theme to the Banana Splits show. If you don't know what the Banana Splits show was, I only wish that I could do it justice, but I can't. Anyway, it was on when I was a young tyke in the early seventies. Liz's version is actually on this compilation CD of rock bands doing kid show themes which I can't remember the name of. Here's my approximately five discs (never been good in math) (and, unlike SOME people, I'll skip insulting other people's lists) (in no particular order): Bob Dylan: Blonde On Blonde Sonic Youth: Daydream Nation The Clash (1st album, American edition) Husker Du: Zen Arcade Miles Davis: In a Silent Way Liz Phair: Exile in Guyville Velvet Underground and Nico Nirvana: Nevermind Van Morrison: Astral Weeks Neil Young: Tonight's the Night Joni Mitchell: Hejira John Coltrane: My Favorite Things (was that more than five?) jw ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:37:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dennis Junkoo Kim Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #63 Don't you hate it when people seem to ignore a terribly clever (you think) post you made and were just dying to see the list's reaction to? And then they keep responding to a man impersonating a long dead president even though he's just trying to get a rise out of you people because that's the way he gets his jollies. man. i think they tried to poison me at the olive garden last night. d. www4.ncsu.edu/~djkim2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:32:57 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: essential albums Ok, Here's my top personal top 5 essential albums excluding Liz and Stone Temple Pilots because everyone should own every album by both: 1. "Full Moon Fever" - Tom Petty (The greatest rock album ever made IMHO. Shows off the talent of the greatest male songwriter of the last 20 years. 2. "Strange Days" - The Doors (one of the wierdest, yet greatest albums I have ever heard. If you don't believe me just check out "Horse Latitutes") 3. "12 Bar Blues" - Scott Weiland (shows off the true talent of one of this generations best songwriters. He made this album for himself and the fans and said fuck the critics. It was my fav album of last year) 4. "Long After Dark" - Tom Petty (if any album will get you over a relationship gone bad, this is it) 5. "Check Your Head" - Beastie Boys (the quintessential rock/rap album that paved the way for acts like Rage Against The Machine, Korn, Limp Bisquit, ect....) These are just my picks. I'm not trying to influence anyone. They are just opinion, so don't go flaming me for any of my choices. Craig "AdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 11:44:35 PST From: tommyk7@excite.com Subject: Liz on Daria I'm predicting at least 3 similar posts to this one...but since "Daria" is one of the only TV shows I religiously watch, I have to chime in and tell all that "Johnny Feelgood" was playing during last night's episode - #302, "The Old and the Beautiful." For those interested, this newest one was pretty good - much better than the #1 of this new season - which tried unsucessfully to make a complete musical episode a la The Simpsons (best show ever). TMK NP - What else? - The Hot Rock (track 13, "A Quarter to Three" - one of my inital faves) _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:46:08 PST From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: a good day.. Has it a been a good day? Hmmm lets see... I get a raise at work.. I find out I've got more vacation time then I'm supposed to have.. I'm not working weekends anymore... and best of all...... Ken finds me on his list of CD receivers....whoo-hoo!!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:47:00 -0600 From: "Jorge (George) Cooper" Subject: Who needs drugs? Hellow Liz Lizards, 1) That's right. I'm already high. I just found out today I'm going to see Liz at the Lounge Ax !!!!! I feel like a giant orange that's being squeezed by 1000 fingers. For those of you not on a current Liz high, that means I feel good. 2) I'm looking to meeting Katie Brown, Craig, Jason, Keely, et al. Let's get together Saturday night....I have a foreign friend living in Chicago who will amuse us with his Australian accent. And now time for a crude joke.....women, please look away and skip to paragraph 3).....I asked my Australian friend Nathaniel if we should call him an "Aussie." He corrected me by saying it should be pronounced "Auzzie." I then asked him how an "Auzzie" pronounces the most elusive part of the female anatomy. 3) Go see the Italian movie "Life is Beautiful." It's quite refreshing. 4) I turned a friend at work onto Liz. Her favorite songs are "Perfect World" and "Johnny Feelgood" 5) Got my Sleater-Kinney ticket for the Dallas show on March 10. There's a cover story/interview on them in this week's Dallas Observer. If anyone wants a copy, Email me. Jorge in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:13:04 -0600 From: "David Kelley" Subject: sad story and Polyester Bride on Daria Well, I finally got my hands on a copy of "Carnivore," but, to my horror, my record player I had to dig up was MISSING IT'S NEEDLE! So I've been searching around for one for days all the time I've got this neat red vinyl disc taunting me with a song I've never heard :P Also, they played about 5 seconds of "Polyester Bride" on this week's Daria. Not that much (just the guitar intro), but I thought I'd mention it (it DID fit in really well with the scene though, it was when Britney's step-mom appeared, someone who was obviously married for show and not for love) David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 01:00:30 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Herbert Hoover" Subject: However Maybe she didn't anticipate that I'm still a member of Support System, only somewhere different, not herbhoov. Okay Rotten Eggy, let's not LIE about this whole thing. "Then, it continued with him calling us whores, sluts and called Liz a fruitcake. Sorry, I'm not having that in my guestbook." No, I believe I was calling YOU a fruitcake. And telling you that the problem with your site was that it made Liz APPEAR to be a fruitcake because of the fruitcake nature of your site. Okay and the whores and sluts thing, I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you're referring to Alexander Hamilton who I TOLD YOU I have no idea as to the identity of. But I don't remember reading anything about whores or sluts in that guestbook entry either. Maybe I missed a line of it, though. It's possible. But don't fucking accuse me of writing that shit when I already told you I didn't. "I was able to track down this guy to get a general idea on what he was up to. He responded, saying it was him and three co-workers" Able to track me down? My e-mail address is on my posts! And if you reread the e-mail I sent you, the word is "COHORTS," not coworkers. Big difference. "Like I can take that as a joke when they call us women sluts? I don't think so." Again, I never called anyone a slut. But since you ERASED all the times I signed, I guess you have no way to look back at that, do you? So you'll just have to take my word. "Hopefully, the case is closed, papers are burned and we can get on to other things." Yes, and maybe now that I've cleared up your lies, I can go back to being dead. I mean JEEZ! I've already built up enough anger surrounding this and I thought it was over, but there's nothing worse than a vicious liar. Wait stop! Before you make some come back like "well you're a vicious liar!" I'm not a liar. I might be interpreted as vicious, but it's really just anger that YOU provoked. In any case, so when you post about me, make sure it is TRUE. Now GOODBYE! Don't make me come back. I'm off to suck. ~H.H.~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 01:02:04 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Jacquicee@msn.com" Subject: E-Bay Hello again, Just a quick note before I go to bed. I haven't seen this posted since I saw it a couple days ago so I thought you might like to know. The following was posted on E-bay when I was looking at LP stuff: It is listed as WCSE - demo tapes The Shelved demos / Full J-card / Purchased at local record fair / Yada Yada It says an 80 minute tape / Won't list all tracks but includes Oh my God / Hurricane Cindy / Rocket Boy / Russian Girl / Stuck on an Island and more. Doesn't list Bloodkeeper though. Is this part of Ken's demo tapes they are talking about? I haven't recieved my CD's yet so I don't know. I know Ken said it was 4,6? tapes worth or something. The seller is listed as Stillicide in PA. Is this somebody on the list? A local record fair? Sounds a little fishy. Anybody have any ideas? Also KB did you get my E-mail? I got an error the 1st time and then I tried another way and it seemed to work? See ya, Bill in CT NP: Slits_Cut ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #64 ***********************************