From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #48 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, February 17 1999 Volume 02 : Number 048 Today's Subjects: ----------------- anyone taping liz opening for alanis? [kenmlee@ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Lee] Desperate for tickets to Liz at Lounge Ax ["Sullivan, Sean Joseph" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #47 ["Nicole W." ] a teacher's response [LULU428@aol.com] random liz things [liza kosciuch ] justaquicknote [jganz@POMONA.EDU] Liz, Lounge Ax, 03/14 [Jason Long ] Liz article from '93 [Jason Long ] Re: Sleater-Kinney shows ["Valerie J. Barry" ] Re: can't take the credit ["Valerie J. Barry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 01:10:59 -0600 (CST) From: kenmlee@ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Lee) Subject: anyone taping liz opening for alanis? Hi everyone, Is anyone on this list taping Liz opening for Alanis Morissette on this tour? I'm curious and interested if anyone is... - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:06:34 -0500 From: "Sullivan, Sean Joseph" Subject: Desperate for tickets to Liz at Lounge Ax Hello Everyone, I have only been a die hard Liz phan for about three months now. I have to say, though, that I must be one of the luckiest phans in the world. I am fortunate enough to attend the University of Virginia, which was a only a short drive away from Liz in Richmond and Fairfax, VA. In addition, my spring semester break is March 13-21, which means that I could venture worry-free to Chicago to see Liz at Lounge Ax on March 18th. The only problem is that I am hundreds of miles away from Chicago and cannot get tickets to the show. I am willing to pre-pay (perhaps even a small premium, if necessary) anyone who has access to tickets. I trust that the honor system would be a sufficient security measure, considering the small sum of money involved. If anyone is interested in this proposal, please E-mail me directly. I hope that one of you kind souls can find it in your heart to help out a fledgling Liz phan. Thanks and goodbye for now. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 05:07:29 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Connolly Subject: My numbers A public thank you to Listmaster Jason for pointing out the correct amount of sales of Liz's albums. I was able to change to figure in the article before we went to press. And people say forums like this don't accomplish anything! == Mike Connolly Va Beach An unfamous, but not that kind, of guy. "Sometimes at night. When I hear the wind. I wish I was crazy again." - - Johnny Cash (liner notes on _Unchained_) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:18:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Nicole W." Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #47 I am convinced that only like... 2 people... maybe 4... 6 at the most... ever read my posts anymore. This is out of what? 900 people? ouch! not only do my threads NEVER get cont'd... my *simple* q's never get answered and things i say get repeated. As new. :( yes... i'm being a selfish snob thinking my posts are worth reading. - -Nicole "dreams, they complicate my life..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:09:07 EST From: TADude9999@aol.com Subject: Valerie, Jamie,and Peter Just wanted to provide positive reinforcement for you recent comments. I think you all have valid points. TAD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:13:49 -0500 From: Katie Brown Subject: MJ joke, Bill in CT Sean Sullivan from Virginia: What was the Michael Jackson joke that Liz told? Bill in CT: your email address doesn't work for me, please email me! later KB *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~**~~*~* "a hundred people drowning in oceans inside of me" Liz Phair "these are dangerous days to say what you feel is to make your own grave" Sinead O'Connor *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:02:03 EST From: LULU428@aol.com Subject: a teacher's response I did not actually read the post/s that lead up to this statement but it caught my eye when I was scrolling down- << Actually, the real problem is most likely the fact that most people are shitty writers. This may have something to do with the state of the public school system in this country. >> now, I have to respond to this because I am a first grade public school teacher (a first year one) and happen to be working my ass off to teach students in Coney Island, Brooklyn how to read and write while doing the job of both parent and teacher as most of my students do not have much in the way of parental guidance. Don't get me wrong, these parents (some) are doing the best they can, with little money and almost no time to spend reading and being there for their children. I give all these single parents a lot of credit having to raise kids and work and still make time for them. (thats another story altogether). But these kids were not read to, do not have computers, did not go to pre- school and come to kindergarten with very little skills. I also worked in Boston and Cambridge where I taught children who can open up their own bookstore by the age of 5 and were reading on a 5th grade level. By first grade, these children were writing novels. I think that blame should not be placed only on the public school system. Pay us the salaries we deserve and maybe we'll put even more effort than a 9-10 hour day with 6 of those hours spent with 25 kids and about 3-4 hours planning. Granted, it is my first year and by my 20th, I should not have to plan for 3 hrs a day, but I work extremely hard, make barely enough to live, have to go and make my own photocopies every week because our copy machine is broken and we havent gotten it fixed in 4 months, and then have to be blamed for the illiteracy in this country! I am not a wonderful writer, though I had a good education and extremely smart parents, I worked really hard to become a better writer and I am working extremely hard to teach my students how to write. It is a struggle for me, but I refuse to place the blame on my teachers for my lack of writing skills. So I take offense to that statement. I may have agreed with you about 4 years ago, but now having put myself through grad school, and am now part of this country's public school system, I have to disagree. I do think that changes need to be made in the public school system, but not with the teachers, its with the higher ups- the teachers are excellent, its what we have to work with that is holding us back. I am struggling to live and pay back my grad school loans, yet I am probably holding the most important job. It makes no sense, I could go on for hours. I do see changes being made, positive ones, slowly, but I love what I do and I guess thats all that counts. teachers do what they do because they love it. I love my job and work really hard to produce literate, curious, empathetic students with a love for learning. Lani ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 14:27:23 -0500 (EST) From: liza kosciuch Subject: random liz things Hey, I just had two little Liz "run ins" that I thought you guys might find interesante. First, WHTG FM106.3, a little modern-rock station in Eatontown, NJ is runs a weekly poll and this week the question is: The Beatles' movie, A Hard Day's Night, is being re-released to theatres this year, so we recommended to Capitol Records that they have one of their modern rock artists do a cover of the movie's title song. Which artist should cover the tune? And, of course, or I wouldn't be posting this here, one of the choices is none other than Liz Phair, who so far has garnered 10% of the vote. The artist with the most votes, in case anyone is interested in Less Than Jake followed by The Dandy Warhols. Also, the other day I was in Barnes and Noble just browsing around and I picked up a copy of the newest US magazine. Jenna Elfman was on the cover and I dislike her so much, I have to read about her. She's like a car accident to me. Anyway, there was a little ad about the Rolling Stone magazine website. It's just a little ad with web address and who's standing there randomly in the background looking sassy? Yup, Liz Phair. I thought that was pretty random. She had nothing to do with the ad, yet she was there. Pretty cool. Ok, enough out of me. LIZA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:47:19 -0800 (PST) From: jganz@POMONA.EDU Subject: justaquicknote i was just flipping through the march issue of stereo review here in the music library (where i work), when i noticed that in the music reviews section near the back of the magazine, there's a list of the ten best discs of 1998. liz is listed at #1. jacob. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:29:30 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Liz, Lounge Ax, 03/14 Hey everyone, I hate having to pass along this bit of news, especially since I know so many people were looking forward to this show, but I received the following in an email from someone in the know this afternoon: "Spoke to Liz's booking agent earlier today: the 3/14 show that has been advertised on the Lounge Axe web-site and elsewhere is NOT in fact an official Liz Phair show. A friend of Liz is having a fashion show, and Liz _may_ appear, and _might_ perform an acoustic song or song or two. No guarantees. That's the official word...take it how you may." I know this is rather disappointing, but I thought I better get the word out before anyone goes to buy tickets on Thursday. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:48:10 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Liz article from '93 Hey everyone, I just acquired a copy of the September '93 issue of the Independent Catalogue, a UK publication, and this particular issue features an article on Liz, which, as far as I can tell, is nowhere to be found on the web. Since so few people have likely read it, I thought I would type it up for the list; I'll try to add it to the mailing list site soon as well. LIZ PHAIR by Martin Aston It's four in the afternoon, and Liz Phair is itching to go jogging. But there's plenty of time; this is her first bout of UK interviews, and Phair can't help but acquiesce to the sprouting interest in her. This is one ambitious, sussed, sassy individual, currently undergoing such pithy (not) epithets as 'best female singer-songwriter since Polly Harvey' ("those comparisons are fine by me, she's pretty cool, I have a lot of respect for her, and empathy for the bullshit she's gone through"), 'the indie Madonna' ("those comparisons are a mindfuck"), etc. The matter at hand is her debut (double) album release 'Exile in Guyville', a record wonderful for myriad reasons -- not least its premise as a female response to The Rolling Stones' 'Exile On Main Street' (a "tour de force of sexual politics" said Chicago Tribune). But what about 18 prime melodies, its rock-folk-pop simplicity, the sparsely telling instrumentation, the fluid mesh of electric and acoustic, Phair's thin but punchy, sailaway vocal, her provocative, stinging lyricism, her self-revelatory frankness and humour and her droll, sensual, knowing delivery? ("a total diva" said 'Sassy'). And while it's crass to isolate quotes like "I wanna be your blow job queen... I'll fuck you till your dick is blue" (from 'Flower') or "Johnny my love... I'm a real cunt in spring" (from 'Dance Of The Seven Veils') and songtitles like 'Fuck And Run', it's nigh on impossible to miss them; the sexual politic here feels as confrontational as Polly Harvey's, but from another radical angle. Whichever way, Phair is a future star. It has to happen. Some history. From Chicago, Phair studied at the prestigious Oberlin college before heading home. She got seriously involved in music around 1990, producing a series of cassettes under the moniker 'Girly Sounds' (the first was titled 'Yo Yo Buddy Yup Yup Word To Your Mother', a parody of rap linguistics and assholes like Vanilla Ice) which a couple of friends kept dubbing for their friends until Matador offered the ubiquitous deal (as a launch for Matador's new European arm, overseen by the Real Time sales/marketing operation, there is no better curtain raiser). There is just one hitch; after a mere 15 stage performances, Phair readily admits she is no stage natural. "Brutally, mortally embarrassing," she's said before. "I'm stage-struck," she adds today. "It's so odd -- I'm great in front of a camera, I'd love to act in a movie, it's just that I can't handle playing my songs in front of a lot of people. I've been known to forget songs midway through, which is sort of funny, but having to play guitar and sing songs at the same time, while you're feeling that exact emotion, is really hard." Asked if she knows why she's pushing herself down this avenue, she replies, "because I have to make a living somehow, and this seems to be working so far." Isn't that a bit mercenary? "Not at all. I don't like jobs, I like expressing myself through some form of art. I was a visual artist before, doing these big charcoal drawings, dealing with medical textbooks and photographs, where I'd take photocopies and distort the images in some way, to convey a psychological or emotional content beyone just a distorted face. I've been doing that and music at the same time, but that was how I lived, selling my art. An opportunity just came along -- someone said I could make an album, and would pay for it, so hell, yes." You weren't driven then? "Yeah, I feel driven to make records. Before, I was driven to make songs. But it's extremely challenging to be embarking on the industry side of this, and challenging to think like an album maker, and to be in a studio. But it's not a gas to be challenged by the industry. It's been a really rough year in terms of being willing to play a certain game that will get me into a position where, umm..." Do you have to play a game? "Oh please, are you kidding me? Do you think I want to spend every day sitting down, telling everyone what I think? That's just because I know that way, I can make more albums. I don't have any need to explain my music at all." Interviews are weird, aren't they? "Isn't it bizarre? I tell my mother and my friends what I think, not even that often. I have my reasons for doing what I do, and I don't think that hard about why I do it. I'd like to write a book too. Writing sounds like it has a better lifestyle because you don't have to do all this public stuff. You can be respected and be heard and don't have to get on stage or explain yourself too much. You can go anywhere and do it, write about anything, all you have to do is get better. I just want to do some art in my life that is really great." In the Phair book, indulgence is a virtue -- "it adequately describes a lot of stuff I've been thinking about: you couldn't have creative process without self-indulgence" -- yet her work resonates with a punishing clarity and brevity. "That's practise. I'd go through periods of flatulence and then constipation, until you temper it into a mature practice. I want to be able to get an essence of images, as much of an image and as colourful an image as I want, in as few words as I feel are necessary, or is fluent. You can't extend things endlessly because I don't find it interesting." Did she avoid any subject matter? "Not that I know of. I don't spend much time thinking about what I don't like to do, I just set drawn to what I do like doing." How about politics? "I do write politically. I went to Oberlin, which is a very politically correct campus, where you spend a lot of time having to explain yourself, what your motives are." By her own admission, Phair has described her work as 'quasi-slutty'. Come again? "What I meant by that was that I embrace lust to some extent, which everyone should. People who make me uncomfortable are those you can clearly see are uncomfortable with their own sense of sexuality, and sure as hell don't want to explore why they feel the way they feel. Not that I'm shock-addicted, but I do like to make comfortable people that are uncomfortable with things that seem to be necessary, so I'll be the one who brings out my vulnerability." But why 'slutty'? "Because the word carries connotations that it shouldn't. It applies sinfulness... it has negative connotations, especially regarding women. They mistitle what is healthy desire, and also what is maybe unhealthy desire. Sluttiness, to me, defines someone who uses sex in a manipulative way. Everyone has done that, though I don't think I do that any more. I usually get involved with people I want a relationship with. I'm usually boyfriended, if I'm coupling, and it's usually very happy. I have quite positive feelings about my sex life: I don't regret very much of it." Don't ask why I asked -- probably a hangover from kd lang's 'Vanity Fair' interview -- but has Phair ever suffered from penis envy? "God, no. I suffer from power envy every once in a while." Is that the same, in one respect? "Penis envy means you wanna have one. I don't need one at all. You know what I think of penis envy, in any context? I don't spew the wrote doctrine anymore, or look for the instances where people have been sexist on each side, but it's a typical example of how men still tend to analyse everything from a self-centred point of view. Is penis envy any more prevalent than vagina envy? It's curiosity, or a grass-is-greener scenario, which is perfectly natural, and to categorise things as suddenly, like, everything thinks phallically instead of thinking, 'oh, vertical object.' I've never seen a penis standing vertically, and they're not that big most of the time. I don't call to mind any national monuments when I see one, erect or limp, and to have this penis envy as a term we use in pop psychology is just so clearly a case of everything analysed from the point of view of 'why don't you like men anymore?', if women are grouping together, or 'why do you want to be men?' if women want power. It always refers back to men, to themselves, when they're trying to understand something. That drives me nuts." As for power envy, "I really hate it when privilege is denied, for silly reasons, like gender. Like education." Do you wish you didn't have to be judged on gender? "I wish I didn't have to be judged unfairly. I'm one of those people who say there are biological differences between men and women - -- tempermental differences -- and I think there should be, but I don't like unwise judgements." But people will always write about you, and others, as a female pop star, or an all-girl band. "But that is significant, because there aren't that many. I used to harp on about it, until I realised that every single case is specific. It's the conext in which this person means it, you have to read the next three sentences, you have to understand why they said that. It can be a woman saying that. It can be saying that this is a phenomenon that is rare and that you should take notice of this. It can be positively intended. It's laziness too, a way to categorise someone that doesn't take a lot of time, and you don't need to think about the music." Does she feel any empathy with the likes of Bikini Kill? "You mean Riot Grrls? I don't buy records, about four in my whole life, I think, though people give me tapes, and I don't read music magazines, so I get exposed to things in a more peripheral way. But I think they're doing something totally different. Bikini Kill are more chaotic, and aggressive, on stage. When I come across aggressive on stage, it's usually because I feel threatened by the situation at hand (laughs). There's definitely anger in me but I don't express it the same way. I'm trying more to control my dynamic, so that when I rant to move into a mood, I can move readily. Sometimes I want to be real quiet, or start splaying out the guitar into some blurry electric fuzz, and bring my voice down, stuff like that. Bikini Kill are way more spontaneous in that sense, that they're just out there, freaking out on stage. I'm not even sure what their goals are but that's what comes across." Neither fish nor fowl, neither folk nor punk. "No, that's right. I think of myself as like a classic rock songwriter. I wanted to be The Rolling Stones when I grew up. I don't necessarily want that sound, but I want to be an institution like them. I would love to have a career that lasted for a duration of development, so that you could hear a clear progression, so that you wake up at 40 and have a retrospection, with these years, and those years. Wouldn't that be a gas? Then you've done something with yourself." Achievement and ambition are volatile areas. "Yeah, I know, it could all be over in a year. But you have to want something big to get something above average. Yourself-average, that is, not everyone else. I don't do nearly as much as I should to get famous. It's more like I want to be someone who stands out, which is where my megalomania comes in, as being a voice, or mind, or talent, that was exceptional in value. And if it doesn't work in music, I can switch back to visual art." So you aren't a crazy, obsessed muso? "No, I'm totally laid back. You say vacation, and I'm there. I just want to be considered. But when I say an institution, I don't see this pyramid thing that other people do. I don't wanna be famous, I want to be around. That's the big challenge. I think it comes from when I grew up -- if you were female and cute, you either classified a brain, in which case you weren't attractive, or you were passed over. I spend a lot of time feeling that I wasn't heard, in situations where I should have been, or looked to for a viable response. Especially in rock 'n' roll. I remember being a band wife, dating all these rock musicians who did double-takes when they found out I even played, watching all this go down, never being asked anything, watching other women being equally ignored - -- intellectually, in college and institutions too. I asked one good friend if women could be geniuses, and he is a great supporter of women, and he could have been irking me, but he said no, and meant it, which pissed me off. This is the kind of thing that goads me into my competitive self, like, goddamit, if you can achieve genius, then I'm going to do it. And I'll fuck up, I'll get frivolous and stupid because I'm not disciplined enough to carry it out." As a concept, Phair saw 'Guyville' -- the term coming from an Urge Overkill song -- as a representation of smalltown mentality and isolation. It sounds like she's expounded a lot of time and energy trying to escape Guyville. "Guyville," she concludes, "is like every question you're asking me! Not that you're Guyville, but my answers are describing Guyville in their very tone. It's all that stuff: do I have something to prove, or is it because I'm short. Like, what's my hunger? The thing about Guyville is that it pissed me off for many years, and certainly has played into a need to be like, 'look, I can do this too', but what's hard about talking about Guyville in interviews now, is that that was a phase. I swear to God, I proved a lot of that to myself, and mostly in my daily life now, I'm not in contact with the Guyville scene. My next album won't reflect that, it's going to be far more carefree in a sense, more like Girly Sounds. Guyville was a very arduous album to make because it was under the guise of having to prove something. Now I feel pretty cool about the fact that I'm just mostly around." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:04:58 -0500 From: "Valerie J. Barry" Subject: Re: Sleater-Kinney shows just wanted to reiterate the cheapness of S-K shows as mentioned by MrE. i called the echo lounge here in atlanta and was told tickets would be only about $7.00, and that they would go on sale probably next week. and, love the venue b/c it doesn't use ticket bastard..it sells its own tickets at the venue and through criminal records. NP: "exile" just ended and i'm goin' to bed! ******************************************************** Valerie Barry valerieb@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:14:14 -0500 From: "Valerie J. Barry" Subject: Re: can't take the credit >Now i've shared that, perhaps we can all be friends again and end this >fighting or this board will end up like postcard! This is the >friendliest board i've known, let's keep it that way. > this was mistakenly attibuted to me by jaime of maine and, although i wish i would have said it, had even thought similar thoughts and agree 100%, i cannot take the credit for such lovely words from the soul-bearing, ever-peaceful chipko, who appreciates the beauty of michigan women! ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #48 ***********************************