From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #42 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, February 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 042 Today's Subjects: ----------------- so sue me... [MrE ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #41 [Anthony Friscia ] getting your priorities right ["Chipko Arnold" ] R.E.M........Girlysounds... [Suzanne Walsh ] well? ["Stacey Wirt" ] ALERT------2 tix for philly show for sale [TADude9999@aol.com] Liz poetry [AngelLieb@aol.com] what a long strange trip its been ["Jenny Sayler" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:53:24 -0800 From: MrE Subject: so sue me... this posting is intended for immature audiences only: >>MrE: rent swingers. Living in the hell-hole that is Southern >>California (stop filling up your pool with my trout-fishing water!), you >>might find it especially understandable. In general it's just a >>fantastic movie. Peter W ...so that's what those things flopping on the deck were...foreign fish from the land of sky blue water...sorry, can't relate...rented a swinger once, since we're on the subject of foreign fish... >>"two t.v sets, two cadillac cars you know >>they aint helpin us at all..." Bryan ...one of life's finer moments was lou reed live somewhere long ago and oh so far away...now if i could just find my copy of rock 'n roll animal... wax on, wax off MrE - -- "Your stinkfoot puts a hurt on my nose - Stinkfoot, stinkfoot, i ain't lying - Could you wash it off, do you suppose?" Frank Zappa... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:47:06 -0800 From: Anthony Friscia Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #41 I'm new to this list, and have yet to post anything, but figured I'd start now. Somebody recently asked what the definition of Lilith is. If I remember correctly in Hebrew mythology Lilith was the original woman made for Adam, but for some reason didn't work out and was sent to the land of Nod (where Adam and Eve go after getting kicked out of the Garden). I may be totally off on this, and I obviously don't have the entire story, but I seem to recall hearing that somewhere. tony ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 05:39:17 PST From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: getting your priorities right So, i hear, from a good source, that Ani Di Franco isn't going to be on GLR on the 20th of feb as she wants to go shopping and sightseeing! Oh well, i guess if there are any London ADF fans you can go looking for her at the usual tourist haunts, rather than listening to her talk and sing on the radio. Presumably she feels that as she's playing two nights at a large venue she doesn't need to promote her material or let her fans hear her for free. Whatever. On a different note, any Wilco fans out there should plead with any London based friends for copies of their recent live session on GLR. It was just Jeff Tweedy & Jay Bennett, but it was amazing. I've heard the extra tracks that they recorded for the Saturday afternoon show are even better! Guess the shops were shut when they came into town! Am i too cynical? "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:32:47 EST From: MangoHula@aol.com Subject: liz in ffx okay. . . .. . . . short story long. i wasn't going to go see liz with alanis. i wasn't. of course things don't always go the way you intended them to. in this situation it was a very welcome change of plans. my friend emails me tues (the day of the concert) she says she has this crazy idea to just jump in her car and drive up here (2 hrs) from school to go. . . .she said she'd come if i wanted to go. "35 dollars?" i questioned myself. i left the decision up to her since she was the one that had to make the trip to get to my house, after all the venue is only 6 miles from my house. so she calls me at work and says "what time should i get there?" wow i thought. i'm going to see liz tonite. she gets to my house at 7.30 then we proceed to the patriot center. . . which leads me to another reason why i didn't want to go--it's not a club it's a college gym. anyhow, we get there and park and as we are walking to go buy our tics this man is selling some. we pass him but decide to at least go back to see where the seats are. after all, our seats would've been nose bleeders if we bought them from the box office. he tells us they are 5th row floor. my friend had her money out of her wallet faster than a speeding bullet. of course i didnt have cash, only my reliable check card but she had enough to cover me (thanks katie). so we go in and find our seats and they rock. we wait about 15 mins then the beautiful liz walks onto the stage. we see empty seats in the second row so we run up there (we were paranoid about that the whole time hoping the real owners of those seats didn't show up until liz was done. . . . . . luckily that was the case) so we are standing, mind you the ONLY ones standing. the teeny boppers behind us along with the parental unit ask us to please sit. whatever. . . . . i told them that i came to see liz and i'm going to enjoy it standing. they tried telling us numerous times to sit but of course we ignored them. what is the point of sitting down?? i had to control myself sitting down during the recording of sessions, i wasn't about to put myself through that again. so katie and i had the time of our lives. . . . we sang to every song and were in heaven every minute of it. btw liz was wearing this really tight red dress with thin straps and an open back. she was doused in glitter from shoulders to toes also. she was hot as usual. she also was wearing sneakers with the dress which i thought was the coolest. so the show ends. . .we debate for a whole millasecond whether we want to stay for what's her face. obviously that answer was a big 'hell no'. we leave the patriot center--man at door says 'ladies, do you know there is no re-entry?' (i could plug a gross comment in here but i won't) so we said 'yes, we know, we had our fun and now its time to go'.........so we go down to the where the buses are. after standing a bit the drummer comes out. then the guitarist, we yell 'woo-hoo, you were awesome, come talk to us'. he said 'let me change my clothes first and i'll be right out'.......we were the only people standing there so we figure he'd honor his word. so then we see the bassist (sorry i cannot remember their names) and we yell once again. so the guitarist gets back off the bus eating a cookie and comes to talk to us. i ask how he likes this tour (long and so much down time), i ask where he is from (LA), i ask if he's offended that no one except for us stood (no, but i would be if liz was the headliner) then a mini van pulls up and he says 'well , here's my ride', we thank him and he says liz is in the van (we would've never noticed had he not said anything, so that was cool of him)......katie and i are like 'no way'......so we walk over to the driver side, the side we were closest to and sure enough, liz is sitting right in the passenger seat. she looks our way and gets blinded by the light as the guitarist opens the door....she looked so cute. and i could still see the glitter all over her. we tell her we loved her and she recognizes us as the ones standing in the second row and thanks us and tells us shes glad we had a good time. i reach in the drivers window to shake her hand as does katie. we didn't want to keep them so they continued on their way. as they were backing up i started dancing in front of the headlights.............hehe........well, all i can say is what a night. my second meeting of liz phair and once again no camera. but the memories will be more vivid in my head anyhow. that was katie's first time seeing liz and i'm glad i got to share the moment w/ her. well, thanks for reaching the end of my story. while i'm here i'll add that i'm stoked about having a washington dc get together liz phest. i cannot wait. in the meantime keep you feet on the groud and start reaching for the clouds (or however that saying goes) ~lynda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:43:53 -0500 From: "Bryan Moore" Subject: mezmerizing(much less space) First off, thanks to April (woo woo), that is an easier way to put tab in posts(nice-very nice), although it would be better to go from low to high (E -chord --- O221OO).....anyways.....no offense also to steve's tab method (from what I know of him, he wont be offended anyways) , I was trying(briefly) to come up with somthing that would take up less space, and then gave up.....anyhoo...I was just listening to mezmerizing and I still think those last two chords in the intro (after the G) at the 06-07 sec mark are what I posted.....Csus4 and Cdim3.....check the tab I posted for those two chords.....ahh here they are again 06-07 mark after the Bb (Capo at third fret - so Bb is like a G structure) (low to high) Csus4 - XO223X (like an Asus4 structure when capoed) Cdim3 - X4222X I dont know....Im gonna listen again, but I'm pretty sure those chord are not B and G...gonna check again....ok the G that april listed..(i think it is realy a C, but nevertheless) ..this capo business is confusing...... - - XXX9(10)(10) is the same chord (roughly) as the Csus4 that I posted (try em both out, my chord is just an octave lower with a few extra notes...) anyways after the that chord at the 7 sec mark is the Cdim3 that I listed....that same chord is in the chorus in the 'izing' of mesmerizing...... check it out cause there is a bass note which is definitely there --an E (5th string, 4th fret- w/capo)......let me know what you all think......oh, I was going over the "all of the time" part again and I think I nailed it....see SS#41 for tab....... Gotta go, got a calculus midterm at 3 and an economics midterm tomorrow...ahhhhhhhh. peace and love -----go team go---we'll get it eventually Bryan "AHHH.....MAKE WAY FOR WILLY!!!!......*willy falls*.....I said make way for willly you bloated gasbug!!!!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:06:46 -0800 From: "April Haitsuka" Subject: Re: mezmerizing (correction) >First off, thanks to April (woo woo), that is an easier way to put tab in >posts(nice-very nice), although it would be better to go from low to high >(E -chord --- O221OO)..... I mixed up the numbers on the E chord, but the rest of the fingerings are arranged low-to-high in standard tuning -- EADGBE. Also, the chord I marked C/D should be C/G. While we're at it, it is capo 3, but NOT tune up three steps. It's two steps up (one-and-a-half on the third string), 'cuz a step and a fret aren't the same thing. I don't like to nitpick on music theory, but someone may look at that and get the wrong idea. >I dont know....Im gonna listen again, but I'm pretty sure those chord are >not B and G...gonna check again....ok the G that april listed..(i think it >is realy a C, but nevertheless) ..this capo business is confusing...... >- XXX9(10)(10) is the same chord (roughly) as the Csus4 that I posted (try >em both out, my chord is just an octave lower with a few extra notes...) It should be (10)(10)9xxx ... according to what Steve wrote originally, which should be G/D. The C/G (332010) chord is moved up and down the neck, with the emphasis on the bass notes, to simulate D/A (5540xx). So that would mean (10)(10)9xxx would actually be a truncated G/D. The last B/F# at the end of the intro (22100x) is the C/G chord, moved down one fret, minus the 2nd string-open (which I suspect should be an x, in a perfect world). You can play a regular B barre chord (244422), and it still sounds right. So the revised chords should look like this: Standard tuning, capo 3 E 022100 C/G 3320xx D/A 5540xx D 577755 G 355433 B 7998xx G/D (10)(10)9xxx F 133211 B/F# 22100x As far as capo confusion, I always write out chords the way they're played on the fretboard. I used to write the chords down exactly as they sounded (while transposing in my head for the guitar), but it was just too confusing. The only reason I would have to write the exact chords would be t o develop accompaniment on another instrument. And sometimes I will transpose the chords to fit my vocal range, but then again, I deal with the music in relative terms, not absolute ones. I'm not a music theory purist, by any means. April ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:01:22 -0800 (PST) From: Suzanne Walsh Subject: R.E.M........Girlysounds... *R.e.M. and Liz* >After all, we know that they know and like each other >and have even >recorded together. When/what did they record together? A request: anyone with Girlysounds who could dub me a copy onto CDs...I have the Cd-Rs and I would appreciate it mucho if someone would burn them for me?!! Please? Return postage and everything.... == *Suzanne*Suzanne*Suzanne*Suzanne*Suzanne*Suzanne* "Father, you seem like a religious man." -Steve Martin (The Jerk) "Wild and unwise, I wanna be mesmerizing, too." -Liz Phair http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Hall/9429 - Liz Phair http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Musee/1104 - photography _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:02:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Stacey Wirt" Subject: well? So who here went to the feb. 9th Liz/Alanis show???? I want a review, a description, ANYTHING because I couldn't go :-( and I want to know what I missed. PLEASE! To Allison who almost got hit by liz's car - - I know how you feel... When liz came to DC last fall I *almost* got to meet her backstage - but I won't get into it. I don't want to make myself sad again...... Oh one more thing... There's a person on ebay (the user id is "stillicide") selling the girlysounds and the shelved demos FOR THE SECOND TIME!!!! As if this person didn't get enough money the first time he/she sold them.... and it looks like he/she's using the same story as last time too.. " I found them at a record show" or something like that.....whatever!! we all know that this person's just taping them off his/her own copies... It just makes me mad that people are getting ripped off. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. - --Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:35:17 EST From: TADude9999@aol.com Subject: ALERT------2 tix for philly show for sale Hi I have 2 tickets for the Alanis/Liz show in Philly on Friday night. They are 3rd row, center section. GREAT seats! (Section 2) They are $35.00 each plus overnight shipping charge. If interested, email me at TADude9999@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:55:12 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Liz poetry Ohk peeps, I added two more poems to my poetry page and would like for everyone to read them. Especially the one I wrote about Liz for my English assignment. I'm thinking of getting in front of the class next week and read it out loud. Hmmmm.. should I? Please check it out and send me comments! Oh yeah, to let you know, just click on the New Additions link and it will lead you to the newest poems I've included in the past week or so. Hmmmm.. a common trend of singer-songwriters appearing in big screen movies. Does anyone think Liz would ever make a cameo appearance in a movie or no? Ugh! It's pine pollen season again and I found my first '99 penny. Nuthin' exciting as usual. KaTiE ();) "Only kindness matters," Jewel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:54:54 -0600 From: "Jenny Sayler" Subject: what a long strange trip its been I had another Liz dream last night, and this was really weird. First of all I was trying to get a tape of a show that liz did on 10-28-88, which is really weird cause that was like 5 years before exile came out, which I knew in my dream, but I was like so what. anyways, I guess I was "remembering" when I was at that show and it was like someone else's concert and liz was closing. SHe did two songs and they were both covers, but I cant remember what songs they were. So after the show I was in the front and liz was walking off the stage on these stairs right next to me. Then I was like LIz remember me I met you at two lilith fairs. She was like yeah I remember. This is also extra weird, cuz I met her last summer and this was suppossedly in 1988. anywho, she said that if I hung around, after she finished talking to the press we could go back stage and talk and get to know each other. I was soooo excited, but then my alarm rang. How much does that suck!! Argh, this dream was really realistic and it was totally weird. Anyways, there's my dream! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny If you get invited to your first orgy, don't just show up nude. That's a common mistake. You have to let nudity "happen." http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:04:01 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Feel my blood on the tracks -- today! Peter wrote: "...at the risk of incurring the ridicule of some of the more musically pretentious out there..." My post ("More fully-baked thoughts") was relatively short on pretension, not as snobbish as it has been widely described, and on-topic. MrE, I'm not sure who you mean when you say "egos and e mail collide somehow doesn't seem appropriate liz content." My post in #34 was about fans & critics' different expectations of Liz Phair. I didn't defend myself until after your post in yesterday's digest (which, incidentally, is what you do when someone lashes out at you on the list: you defend yourself ...on the list). Peter, I love songs like "I'm a Believer." I like a lot that I never mention -- not because I'm pretentious, but because there's no point in mentioning it here. If you want to hear about the 1997 Fleetwood Mac reunion concert I saw or how I know all the words to Britney Spears' hit single, I can tell you all about it. (How self-depricating of me.) I decided to print out our posts ("More fully-baked thoughts" and "Old hat? So tell me to shut up!"), compare the two (I actually made notes!), and figure out how my post warranted this response. In the first 6 paragraphs (the bulk) of my post, there is one line Cindy cared about: "[Liz] wrote to impress a certain indie scene in which she was never taken seriously." Cindy used this alongside a second quote from me saying it's okay to be an indie rock freak and called it "ironic." ("I feel a Catch-22 coming on here.") I hyper-edited my post in #34 (I was concerned about the length, not clarity - big mistake), so several things should've been more clearly defined than they were. The "scene" Liz wrote to impress was not the "indie scene" like the one Ruthie describes in London or elsewhere, it was basically the Wicker Park Circle of Friends At Liz's Favorite Bar. Recent interviews have given the indication that it was, in fact, *one* person that Liz was interested in. But she's said in the past that she wanted to be taken seriously by the people who never thought she was worth talking to (they didn't know she played or wrote). She wanted to be someone people would want to talk to at the bar. That's what I meant to say. I'm not sure, because I don't know any indie rock scenesters personally, but I don't think Liz's group in the early 90s is the same thing as indie rock-lovin' kids like Ruthie (or whoever). Cindy wrote: "...why do I have the funny feeling of being baited? Or that my intelligence is being insulted?" Because you misunderstood my post. I was vague (to a fault), and you filled in the blanks (incorrectly), assuming that I was either agreeing with Ruthie's comments or referring to *you* when I said "I think a lot of people don't 'get' it, whether they're fans or not." I also wrote "If indie rock's your thing, you should be able to shout about it. Good taste has become shameful... You have to have standards..." I really, really hate the fact that I suggested, though sloppy editing (really!), that indie rock=good taste. You picked up on this and assumed I meant because you "don't follow the indie music scene or the music club scene," you aren't 'getting' what "the arbiters of good taste are 'getting'..." You took statements from my para's 9 & 11 and wrote: "I see now that only those who follow the indie scene can truly understand and appreciate Liz's music. Those who don't, or happen to also like some 'lesser' (or, heaven forbid, mainstream) artists... can't." Cindy, I don't follow the indie scene. I'd like to be on top of everything rockin' & hip, but the truth is, most of the records I buy are recommended by the list or are releases from artists I already like (including the 'lesser,' mainstream Sheryl Crow!). Why I would suggest what you *thought* I did in your passage above is beyond me. It would be absurd for me to make the generalization you sarcastically made, because I like mainstream artists and don't really follow the indie scene, either. I'm no different in that respect. "I'm quite traumatized that I, and probably many others, don't qualify - -- despite a college education, a highly developed critical eye in the arts..., being fairly literate, and being a bit older than many list people..." If you were trying to say that you 'get' Liz's music, I already knew that. I knew from your very first posts (and that dissection of "Chopsticks") that you were a fabulous new poster (no ass-kissing here, just simple truth). Upon seeing that I quoted ("the general type of people that would be most... likely to appreciate [Liz's] music [are indie rock boys/girls]") and followed it myself with "I've often wanted to take aside wagon-hoppers/friends of mine and say 'Can you possibly appreciate her work?'", you assumed the worst. The worst being that I was saying only indie rock kids can appreciate Liz Phair. That was quite the leap you made, Cindy. When I said I wanted to "take aside wagon-hoppers/friends of mine," I was thinking about actual real-life friends of mine to whom I've introduced Liz's music. They are in no way tied to this mailing list. I have friends who accompany me to the record store to buy Liz, even sing along sometimes, and go to Liz concerts with me, but they don't appreciate Liz Phair, even though they have called themselves fans. They don't even care about Music to begin with! These are my friends, *not* people on the list, that I was talking about. You got all excited over something that I didn't say (ergo, your "I don't qualify" paragraph). The problem with my post is that it was really divided into three unequal parts, all on similar yet different topics, and because of the way I put it together (How Do We Love Liz? Let Me Count the Ways; It's a Shame My Friends Can't Appreciate Liz Phair; and Don't Be Ashamed Of Your Indie Rock Love), it appears I was saying 'this' about 'that' when I was not, or I was talking about Cindy when I was actually talking about my friends. "Just cut away the 'snob' part of it first, so that you don't tar the rest of the world with the same brush." Quite the request, considering the tone of the paragraphs that preceded it. Unless the post is a satire, it's kind of odd to speak out against snobbery while simultaneously decorating your own rant with it. Ruthie mentioned "making gross generalizations..." and said "it is nearly impossible to be completely PC..." It's a truism on support-system (and in real life) that you can't say anything without offending someone, somewhere. I think part of the problem lies with people who are *looking to be offended* even when no one's saying anything remotely offensive (although this is more a misunderstanding & a case of confusing the quoter with the quote). I remember a certain listmember being offended when I called Liz's songs 'ditties,' which is a term that Liz herself had used to describe her songs. Apologies for the uproar, and the length. A continuation of the "Mesmerizing" tab will follow soon enough (good work, Bryan). Steve ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #42 ***********************************