From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #36 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, February 6 1999 Volume 02 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Hardest song, Liz's shadow, etc. [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] Liz Phood (that looks SO stupid, sorry, sorry) [Oh4sythia@aol.com] Polyester Bride in Australia [Stuart Jackson ] Re: Women guitarists ["Chris" ] Set List [Michael Connolly ] search results ["tree shadow" ] geez louise! [The Indie Snob ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #35 ["Al" ] Lucas's comment [AngelLieb@aol.com] Panic on ["Chipko Arnold" ] Sleater-Kinney show in Dallas ["Jorge (George) Cooper" ] review from musicblvd... ["George Song" ] The topic that refuses to die ;) [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] a most unlikely Liz conversion [Oh4sythia@aol.com] Re: A Question for guitar players [Brett ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:55:54 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Hardest song, Liz's shadow, etc. Bryan wrote: "...in response to Katie who was asking guitar players what liz song is the hardest to play...they are all basic chord progressions ... plus the occasional drop tuning..." This is simply not true. Her chord progressions aren't basic. Her chords are quite often made up, and the way she picks these fucked-up chords, puts them together, and still comes up with winning pop tunes is beguiling. This is another instance where Liz is not being given the credit she deserves. Whether or not her songs are hard to play once you learn what exactly she's doing is beside the point. I'm just saying that Liz is far *brainier* on guitar than "basic chord progessions." Have you actually seen Liz play Exile/w-s/GS material? - the recent shows don't count. If so, I can't see how you could arrive at such a conclusion. Anyway, I'll say that the hardest songs to play are the ones that have the most parts. That would include "Support System," "Strange Loop?," "Jealousy," and "Hurricane Cindy" (which Liz always had trouble playing herself). I'm not even thinking about Girlysound or unreleased songs. Bryan could be right about most of the 16 songs on the new record - they are relatively basic. But I've been watching Liz (on tape) play "Mesmerizing" for months, and I still can't figure out the "all of the time..." part, and I don't know if I'd ever even try "Strange Loop"; there's just too much going on in those. Lucas wrote: "I wonder if she doesn't react so strongly against that self-consciousness because it's something she fears in herself ... her music creates a picture of her in my mind that is very self-conscious ... I think she sees her past selfishness as a negative trait, one that has become a part of her Shadow, and she projects it on Ally McBeal..." You're not taking Personality Theory Psych now, are you? (That's Jungian shit, kids.) It was drilled into my brain last year and since I'm minoring in Psych, I'm hearing it all over again - just today, actually. Kinda creepy. Synchronicity, Lucas? I, too, am a Boogie Nights fan, Cindy. I saw it on the big screen in Nov. 97, and it was the best movie-going experience of my life. Now I own the $80 special edition laserdisc. Magnificent! Jorge's idea: I think I'd like to hear more from Shane. I liked his style, and I like driving around. I'd also like to hear more from the Psychosomatic Sister, the former Russian Girl, and the Car-Crasher. Why? They seem like really cool chicks, the kind that could get you stoned & into lots of trouble, just before ditching you. I'd want to be used by them; I think it would be fun. Ubiquitously yours, Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 02:58:36 EST From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: Liz Phood (that looks SO stupid, sorry, sorry) Jorge said: << Or, he said, obviously desperate for a new thread......What subject would you like Liz to write about? I think she should write songs about food. I don't why I feel that way but I do. >> Wheeee... I think it's because Liz has done tidbits of food-like stuff already and it's been pretty...uh.. tasty?. Whitechocolatespaceegg could be construed as a food ("I tell people it's an hors d'ouevre they serve in Monaco but that's just a big lie" --Liz on Rosie), and there's the Banana Splits cover, and weren't there these vaguely peppermint-candy-like red lights during the fuck & run encore on her recent tour (you know, the kind of mints you get with your bill at a restaurant - they are round and taste like candy canes except the ones that taste like red hots; those just completely SUCK). Or maybe Jorge was just hungry. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 17:31:07 +0800 From: Stuart Jackson Subject: Polyester Bride in Australia Greetings, the Polyester Bride video will be shown on Rage this weekend. I believe this is the first time on Australian TV. http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/rage.htm Stuart. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:28:55 -0500 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: Women guitarists > A lot of other ladies play lead on > records, but don't in concert because it's hard to and sing at the same > time. Case in point - Michelle Schocked and Aimee Mann. Not to mention > the unbelievable rhythmn work of singers like Shawn Colvin. Not to pick on women and suggest that only they have trouble singing and playing at the same time, because I'm sure that's not true, but the person I've noticed having the worst trouble in this area is a bass player, Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth. I've been a fan of theirs since the 80's, and seen them live many times. Up until the show I saw last year, Kim's vocals were always atrocious, much, much worse than on the albums. Yet Thurston Moore and Lee Renaldo sounded pretty much the same as they did on the albums. It was abundantly clear Kim had big problems singing and playing at the same time. Several of my friends who attended those shows with me commented on it, too. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 05:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Connolly Subject: Set List Subject: search results here are the words the netscape search engine provided to help when i typed in liz phair: hippest, jelousy, feelgood, girly, matador, mesmerizing, exile, recs, dilettante, morissette. btw-: dil·et·tante Function: noun- 1 : an admirer or lover of the arts 2 : a person having a superficial interest in an art or a branch of knowledge : DABBLER synonym see AMATEUR interesting? steven ..death is the reason and living is the celebration. beth orton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 13:55:23 +0000 From: The Indie Snob Subject: geez louise! i disappear for a few days and all hell breaks loose out here! but anyways... i will try not to bore you all with any more political commentary... seeing as how i hate politics and think that it is a disgrace that everything, including music, has gotten tied up in it. as others have said, why do we have to associate a musician with some political movement before we can enjoy her/his music? just go for the rock and roll... dig it cause its good, not cause it takes a political stance! that said, a couple brief comments on the recent feminism/womanism and lilith... commentary. i have been to lilith the past two years. not because all the performers were women but because i wanted to see some people that i liked. who just happen to be women. and happen to all be on tour together, since most of the other touring summer music festivals (eg the now-defunct? lalapalooza, warp tour, etc) dont' seem to have a place for them. that said, i suppose i am a feminist by nature, but not by active politcal association or whatever. it has just never occurred to me that women should be treated differently (well, i'm actually all for chivalry, i think its fun, as long as its done sincerely and not condescendingly) or have restrictions or anything placed on them. and sometimes a bunch of my girl friends and i get together and do girly stuff that makes us feel better about ourselves (and yes, it sometimes includes guy-bashing) but it never has any political motivation. i think most pc stuff is crap and sounds more condescending than "normal" speech. and i think that's enough about that well, since chipko's post about Mary Lorson's (the singer/guitarist from madder rose) gig on tuesday got lost, i suppose i can post some brief, and probably less insightful, comments about it. actually, i can start with the funny story about how while i was waiting outside the pub/club to go in ( i got the doors time wrong, so instead of showing up 20 minutes late, i was 10 minutes early) i got mistaken for a homeless person i found that pretty amusing, since i was wearing kenneth cole shoes and this new fancy merino wool sweater i just bought. anyways, i got in, took a seat on a bar stool (it was at the water rats, this small little place, and it was a very mellow evening) and waited thru the first opening act ( i forget who) who was okay... i ran into chipko, and he told me there was a second opening act, but wouldn't tell me who :-p but just said that i would like them. so we were talking, and i mentioned that i saw someone who looked like one of the webb brothers sitting at a table a little while ago.. and he kind of smiled, and then i realized that they were the second openning act! and they were great, as they were a couple weeks ago. i really need to pick up their single. they played a couple songs acoustic (it was just them, without the bassist and drummer) it was really great. and then mary came out. i must say, its really cool to see a musician who sets up all her own stuff (she did it at the madder rose show last night too) anyways, she was amazing. just her and her guitar. very mellow, very groovy. she has great stage presense. even though she did have some trouble with her rat peddle. uh.. wednesday night i went to the london symphony, which was great... but most of you probably arent all that interested in that, so i'll leave it. last night was madder rose, which was really great! (gee, do i say that enough?) even though my friend jane and i got stood up by indie rock boy (who is a real asshole now... go figure..) we still had a blast. we were right up front, in the second row of people (Actually the 2 guys in front of us were debating about whether to let us in front of them, cause my jane is really short .. but they didnt' :-p) it was a little scary up there during the opening band, dark star, who... made a lot of noise.. that's about all i can say about that. but madder rose was great! although it was funny to keep hearing mary talk about how this or that song was off their new album (here in the UK), tragic magic, but i've had it for a couple years they opened with my star, which, despite the "time out" critics comments to the contrary, is one of my favs. lots of great guitars and mary's really amazing voice. even the problems at the end-- she popped a guitar string, didnt' have another, and then switched to this other guitar, which was totally out of tune, and while trying to tune it, popped another string-- made it fun! yeah! oh! and i got a set list! fun fun fun! tonite is heather nova again. i've got my tape recorder, and a blank tape (but its normal bias.. i need to find a hi bias one, but figured i shouldnt' take any chances) and i'm all ready to front and center again. oh, and to whoever was being and rude and obnoxious and hostile and sending messages containing "fuck off"... well, right back at you!! so maybe some of us post off-topic occassionally.. but at least we try to be interesting and friendly, instead of moronic (although there are some that would go in there too.. enough) well, that's about it... more from me after the next week (ie i dont' come to school on the weekends to check my email...) (:ruthie:) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 99 10:00:34 -0000 From: "Al" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #35 > Second, I was driving around listening to Liz (one of my favorite >pasttimes) and I noticed how much cooler the Girlysound version of Soap >Star Joe is than the Guyville. You know how you can listen to a song a >lot, and you *think* you know how it goes, but then you hear it a >different way? In this instance, I always thought the guitar part in >the verse of Soap Star Joe was really frantic. Fast and jerky. And it >ranked near the bottom of Liz's stuff. And the way I heard it on >Guyville kindof carried over to how I heard it on Girlysounds, even >though they're quite different. aNd then the other day I'm listening to >Girlysounds, and there's this nice rolling groove going, it reminds me >of riding horses :|, and now I'm totally getting off on Soap Star Joe! >What the FUCK! I totally see horses in that song too. Always have. Kind of like those old western movies they use to make. Ride kinda has that same sound to it (the guitar that is). Anyway, I know jason sent a msg a while back saying that if we were going to make trades and had to email someone that we should do it in private, but this time I need to address a few people who I am making some trades with. They are: Suzanne Walsh, Lucas Johnson and Kate Connors. I lost your email addresses and I just want to let you know that I haven't forgotten, I've just been real busy lately and actually Suzanne, I can't send the video until after I've copied it for all those who asked for it. Well, please get a hold of me and let me know if ya'll still want to do the trade. Thanks. Al ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:00:38 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Lucas's comment Lucas wrote: " Thirdly, you know that interview segment a few digests back where Liz chooses Buffy over Ally McBeal? And she's really dissin' on the characters on Ally McBeal and how self-conscious they are, and she just wishes they would all die?" The more I think of it, maybe Liz was trying to say something like she prefers the look of women being healthy and not pencil skinny. Is there anyone going to see Liz opening for Al-anis soon? Just curious cuz I'd like to know what she performs. The guy who submitted the review said she opened with Chopsticks on the piano. He also added more to the review. I've noticed there's been quite a few of newcomers to the list. I just wanted to welcome you all. ();) Sigh.... I'm so bored and yet I only have 20 more hours before I'm at Ticketbastard to get myself Sheryl Crow tickets. Woo hoo! KaTiE ();) "I want all the stupid old shit like letters and sodas," LP NP: (in head) Fuck and Run ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 10:20:22 PST From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: Panic on So. To all of you not at the Garage in London last night (all but two of you then). Madder Rose. Top gig. In case my Mary Lorson review didn't make it the other day, then all of you should check out MR. Mary is the singer and did a solo show the other night. Alone she was mezmerising. Beautiful, fragile songs that left you unable to breathe lest you break the spell. Even with the full force of the boys behind her, the songs shine. those who praised Liz's guirar work should check out Mary's axe work. Combine her with Billy Cote on more guitar and BLIMEY!!! The feedback starburst that preceded the dive into "swim" was awesome. Yo la tengo would be proud. It's a shame the opening band last night were duff (dark star, soon to disappear into a black hole). For her solo show she was supported by the Webb Brothers and they even did a cover of a Wilco song (passenger side) which was fine by me. I'm a bit of a Wilco fan and on Monday Jeff Tweedy will be in London!!!! He'll be on GLR between 4 & 6 pm. It's Heather Nova tonight. should be good. If anyone's perturbed by the heading of this, it's a Madder Rose song and also describes me last night! It's a long story and you don't want to know, suffice to say that i got in the gig, so all was well in the end. If my other post didn't make it, then you'll never know what i said about Gillian Anderson! Ask nicely and i might repeat it. Bye. "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 15:35:00 -0600 From: "Jorge (George) Cooper" Subject: Sleater-Kinney show in Dallas Hey S-K fans, Lucas, I'm in for the Sleater-Kinney show. I bought Dig Me Out last night. The list has been touting them for a long time so I know I'm the last one on the bus, but at least it's not the short one. I love their energy which reminds me of three of my favorite old bands: Throwing Muses, Mary's Danish and X. The ad from the Dallas Observer says Sleater-Kinney and Versus are playing at Trees on Weds. March 10th. Elliot Smith is playing there on March 9th. Jorge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 13:47:31 -0800 From: "George Song" Subject: sk show in SF anyone planning on attending the sleater kinney shows in SF on march 3 & 4? i plan on getting tickets this sunday so if you want one let me know before then. please email privately as i don't check the postings all that much! and i'd also like to see who else may show up. george ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 14:22:13 -0800 From: "George Song" Subject: review from musicblvd... Morissette, Phair Deliver Snarling Rock In Atlanta Show In many ways, Liz Phair paved the road to success for Alanis Morissette. Phair wanted to be our "blow job queen" two years before Morissette even thought of going down on anyone in a theatre. And the critical and relative commercial success of such sexual frankness on Phair's 1993 debut Exile in Guyville made the music world a safer place for Morissette's somewhat toned-down behemoth, Jagged Little Pill. Both women have moved away from such brash declarations with their recent releases, (Phair's whitechocolatespaceegg and Morissette's Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie), but the parallels between them continue. Performing at the Fox Theatre in Atlanta on the second date of their tour together, Monday (Feb. 1), it was clear that despite the fact both Phair and Morissette write catchy pop songs, deep down, they just wanna rock. Phair opened the show gently, though, sauntering out in a black evening gown and high heels to the delicate "Chopsticks" from her 1994 album, Whip-Smart. From there, she strapped on a guitar and charged into three roughed-up rockers from her debut: "6'1"," "Never Said," and "Mesmerizing." Though Phair's voice was in good form, the louder, denser arrangements forced her to stetch its limits and occasionally she missed notes badly. The band hit its stride, though, on a raucous version of "Polyester Bride," one of only three songs Phair included from her new album. Perhaps sensing her older, more sexually explicit songs would go over best with the nearly sold-out crowd, Phair leaned her set in that direction despite her obvious awkwardness with some of the material. Now a wife and a mother, she delivered "Fuck and Run" with a wry, knowing smile and stifled laughter through the particularly raunchy "Flower." A tight, impassioned "Divorce Song" closed her set on a high note. Morissette opened her two-hour set with a clip of DJ Shadow's ominous "Building Steam with a Grain of Salt," before leading her five-piece band into a furious version of "Baba." She lurched back and forth on the stage while her band earned their paychecks, turning even some of her gentlest material into loud, snarling rock. Unlike Phair, Morissette's powerful voice was suited for such a turn, and boomed through new songs like "Can't Not" and "Joining You." But these particularly unsubtle treatments did point out Morissette's limitations as a songwriter. Formulaic tunes like "Would Not Come" and "Sympathetic Character" droned together in a blur of Zeppelin-ish guitar menace, while more subdued, trip-hoppy fare like "One" and "Thank U" sounded ordinary. Of course, none of this mattered a lick to the throngs of rabid fans who were sent into violent fits with Morissette's every odd dance move, and who turned radio favorites like "Hand in My Pocket," and "You Oughta Know," into mass sing-alongs. When she bounced around in circles during the instrumental interlude in "You Learn," the crowd went nuts, and in fairness, her mood was contagious. Returning twice to the stage for encores, Morissette was not the brooding, scorned woman that her songs often suggest; instead, this night, she was enjoying the role of crowd-pleaser, and judging by the high-pitched squeals that accompanied her final exit, she was not the only one. - -- David Peisner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 19:12:09 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: The topic that refuses to die ;) Steve wrote: >As far as knocking women who are part of a 'movement,' I should say that >I'm all for women who rock, I just always thought that the idea of >celebrating a bunch of chicks in music _regardless_ of their actual >talent is wayyy (pardon the extra y's) lame. I remember discussing this very thing with a lot of people over a year ago, when Rolling Stone published their second 'Women in Rock' issue (for those who don't remember, Liz was on the cover of their first in 1994). I have no problem with women musicians -- they make up the greater part of my music collection -- but I sometimes wonder why such an issue is made of gender. In my opinion, it's kind of condescending the way female musicians are treated by the mainstream press. It's almost like they are not being taken notice of on the basis of talent, but simply the fact that, "Oh my God, look - -- a woman who writes songs and plays guitar!" Like, it's such a miraculous occurance that women can be musicians too, or something. The thing that really bothers me is the way that all of these diverse musicians, a lot of whom are blazing their own trails, are suddenly being grouped together as a movement. It's amazing how writers do not make the distinction between Courtney Love, Kim Gordon, Liz Phair, PJ Harvey, Jewel, Paula Cole, and Alanis. None of them really have much in common from a musical standpoint. All they have in common is gender, when you think about it, and yet, the way they are written about sometimes, you would think they were all similar artistically. Why can't they be recognized as individuals with their own styles? A lot of the 'Women in Rock' hype bothers me because it, at times, celebrates mediocrity. It's almost like some music critics are more lenient in reviewing albums by female artists, like, "Well, it's good for a girl." Why can't everyone be judged equally on their merits? Is it really a victory for a female artist to gain a lot of acclaim and recognition while being graded on a different scale than male music performers are? There have been a number of releases I have made an effort to hear over the last few years by female musicians because of things I had read about them in the music press, only to listen to the music for myself and find it either completely bland or lacking much of the merit that was claimed to be there (and, no, I will not mention the names of these artists for fear of offending anyone on the list who may like them). I can't help but think to myself that if a male band or artist had released similar works, they would either be ignored or less well received. And another thing, why do you always see female musicians compared to one another, but very seldomly to male artists? One of my peeves is how some of these artists are receiving acclaim they really haven't earned. I hear people all the time saying how supporting these artists because they are part of this "movement" is a good thing, but ultimately, all I have to say is just because an artist is female is not a good enough reason for me to buy their albums -- the music damn well better be good. I have a couple of friends who always knock me for how few Canadians bands I listen to, and how I should make a greater effort to support our talent. Well, as much as I'd like to support homegrown artists, I'm not going to bother if the music sucks. The only reason I am going to like someone's music is the music itself. That's the only factor that comes into play. Also, as an avid music fan, I just can't sit back and allow myself to encourage mediocrity -- it's just not in my best interest (or anyone else's, for that matter). As good or worthwhile the movement may be, there better be something to back it up. I'm not going to support a movement just for the sake of the movement itself. Also, why people make such an issue of the success that people like Jewel and Sarah McLachlan have achieved is beyond me. Traditionally, female artists have had a much easier time gaining acceptance in the folk and pop music genres, and both of those artists' music is quite accessible, so it's not all that remarkable to me. Rock is a bit of a different story, though, but still not as unheard of as some people suggest. And, you know, the 'Women of Rock' issue Rolling Stone published in 1997 was a joke to me. I did appreciate the diversity of the artists featured; what I didn't like is how these musicians were all tagged as "rockers." The issue really should have been named 'Women in Music,' because quite frankly, a lot of the women profiled have nothing to do with rock. I was flipping through the magazine with my best friend Samantha, and she was like, "Folkie, pop singer, dance artist... Uh, I don't see much 'rock.'" I had to agree. I mean, look at the cover alone -- Madonna's music can't be deemed rock and neither can Tina Turner's. The only one on the cover whose music could be considered rock was Courtney Love. And since they seemed to be claiming that they were celebrating *talented* women making rock music, why didn't they feature Aimee Mann or Jen Trynin? Oh yeah, that's right -- they are lesser known and therefore wouldn't have as much appeal to the masses. So instead, they profiled a lot of bland, middle-of-the-road artists to fill up the pages of the double issue. Ultimately, while I'm not a fan of slotting music into categories, if they really had to, couldn't they at least get it right? It just seems to me, more than anything, we should try celebrating *talent* in rock because that's what's really in short supply these days. And not just from one gender or the other, but both. I keep saying to people that it's about time for another Nirvana happen -- we need another band right now who will shake things up on a grand scale the way they did in '91. It would be great if that band were a female one, but either way, I don't really care. I just want to start hearing more good music on the radio again. >Melissa in Buffalo: I, too, noticed that Phair & Manson said the same >thing about Alanis. Anyone remember what another Manson (Marilyn, that >is) said about Courtney Love? Now they're touring together! Just >something to think about. I'm not too sure what to think about this myself. It seems to me that Liz might actually be a fan of Alanis' music, as it's really not that far removed from some of the other artists she listens to. I guess we'll never know for sure, though. As for Shirley Manson, I would have to think that her comments are a little less sincere, especially after some of the Alanis-trashing she and her bandmates have engaged in in the past. About Courtney Love (who I am a big fan of; I'm not trying to trash her) and Marilyn Manson, all I have to say is that they both are pretty good at self-promotion, and touring together, whether they like one another or not, would be one way of attracting a lot of attention for both parties. I hate to sound so cynical, but I've noticed several online music publications are already drooling over the prospect of what might happen on the tour. >re: Liz writing new songs -- > >I knew she would be. Doesn't she have a recording studio in her >apartment, like on the third floor? Recording doesn't necessarily mean >she's heading out of the house. It could mean 4-track. But when she >does head out, I hope it's over to Idful. Liz does have a studio in her home, as mentioned during the Squirt TV interview in 1996 and, I believe, in an Addicted to Noise article from that same year. In fact, in the credits for the _First Love, Last Rites_ soundtrack, one of the recording locations listed for "Erecting a Movie Star" is 'Liz's Place.' Jase "Shortly after the release of her major-label debut, JEN TRYNIN drew some heat for requesting not to have any female acts open for her band. Trynin defends her request as having been a reaction to 'lazy, sexist and closed-minded' booking agents who continually booked Trynin's band with other girl groups, even if they weren't 'musically appropriate.' She says, 'I knew it was going to come back to haunt me. But... this is _ultra-pro-feminism_. Treat me as a fucking person.'" - CMJ New Music Monthly, September 1997 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 19:50:30 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Peter Washington" Subject: feminstuff and good shows Dan wrote: >In that case, yes I agree...In that case, I am a feminist. I completely >look at women as equal, actually, it is retarded that I even have to say >that, because I don't even think of WOMEN as a seperate..um...category...you >know what I mean?? Uh, no, you got me there. If I were arguing this like a philosopher I'd point out the obvious anatomical differences giving a pretty simple separation into categories. But I know you don't mean literally that men and women can't be delineated between. Still, if you actually think that humans are just humans regardless of gender then I'm sorry, I know it's a stereotype, but that guy who wrote that book with the famous name I need not repeat was right--emotionally, men and women are from different fucking planets. Seriously, I would never stand a whelk's chance in a supernova of forming a good relationship with a woman if I could actually understand her at any deep level. Once you figure someone out they cease to be exciting. (Think divorce song: "but if you're tired...") On a happier note, I just saw a great show featuring Edith Frost and Lullaby for the Working Class. Lullaby is a very good band featuring about every acoustic instrument you can think of (and a few electric ones) and Edith Frost is... Well, my friend criticized her for sounding too much like Liz Phair. She does sound quite a lot like Liz, especially her voice. And some of her lighter songs sound like Liz's darker ones. She doesn't rock as much, either. But what I'm getting at is that if you like Liz there's a good chance you'll like her so check her out. She's on Drag City Records. Peter, sadly without his word of the day list. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 00:15:17 EST From: Oh4sythia@aol.com Subject: a most unlikely Liz conversion Until today, I thought that spreading the Liz gospel just was not my calling. Look at the times I've failed. When Liz played in San Francisco last year, my friends (who had never heard any Liz) suprised me by driving 6 hours with me to see the show. It blew them away; it was the best concert they'd ever been to.... and then we came home and they forgot about Liz. When Polyester Bride hit M2, my friend Patrick told me every single time he saw the video and starting looking through her discs on his trips to the record store. Then I tried playing Exile for him and less than halfway into 6'1", he stopped liking her. I swear, I would get so close to conversion and then somehow screw it up. Now I think that maybe I was just trying too hard, because today, an effortless, spontaneous Liz moment just floated my way, during what was supposed to be the most stressful hour I have ever experienced. I had an admissions interview for Harvard today. A whole gaggle of local alumni interviewers stormed my high school campus to interview nine candidates. I saw some of them before my turn came - these very impressive women: cool, tall, but in no way vulnerable or luscious. Very commanding presences, these ladies were, quite different from the unassuming, elderly gentlemen interviewers of other schools who tell me about their grandkids. I did not, however, see the lady who was to interview me until after I had paced around nervously for an hour, waiting my turn, trying to remember my answers to the usual interview questions. I was so freaked out that I couldn't even do "Why does Harvard interest you?" Then it was my turn. My first thought: "Whoa. She looks kinda like Liz." Her name was Melissa, and it wasn't like she had the same face, but all the other things fit: hair was wcse length & color, height was just about 5'2" (near my height), and eyes were amazing cool eyes. No cool-tall-invulnerable intimidation here. I relaxed a bit just at the Liz resemblance, and then as we started really getting into our conversation, I relaxed more. She was great - straightfoward (*winks at Dan*), honest, insightful, and very easy to talk to. So there we were, chatting away like new best friends, when the conversation turned to books. This is where Johanna comes in. She's on the list but doesn't post much but she struck up an e-mail friendship with me last month and we constantly recommend books to each other. (Johanna, if you're reading this, just look at how instrumental you are to this Liz tie-in). So I mention Johanna and our e-mail book discussions, and Melissa asks how I met her, so I say, "A mailing list," so she asks what it's about, and I say, "Liz Phair, have you heard of her?" and she said no, and I thought, "That's the end of that tangent." But no, she wanted to know who Liz was! The first thing I blurted out was, "Well you kind of look like her... uh, that's SUCH a compliment because she is so totally gorgeous" And then she kept asking questions. "Should I have heard of her?" (I said something like - uh, no, she's like known among the critics but not the consumers) "Is she new?" (no, she's been around since '93) "Is she like Alanis Morrissette type?" (Good god no, but she's opening for her and we're all livid about it, and she's not like any of the big girl singers, she was on lilith but she's not like lilith at all (I must have confused her here) ) She fucking wrote down Liz's name on her little notepad next to my extracurriculars and SAT score. I could not believe it. She told me how her husband is very into obscure music and how she has to tell him about Liz. Somehow we moved on with the interview and before we knew it, our time was up, but I swear she was still thinking about Liz as I was leaving. The last thing she did was ask me what albums to try. She wrote down the titles by Liz's name on the little notepad. It was so awesome. I was tripping. Now I'm debating sending her a Liz-mix tape with the requisite thank you note. What do you guys think? Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 09:13:39 +0800 From: Brett Subject: Re: A Question for guitar players To be honest... all of them. I remember some discussion over who is a better guitarist. Liz, or Juliana. Well, I can play along to most of 'Hey Babe' and 'Become What You Are'. But when it comes to playing Liz, thats a different story. After watching a Liz video boot, I'm convinced that I'm doomed to never be able to play her stuff with any degree of proficiency. Theres just too much jumping around the fretboard for my liking. Sure there are a few easy songs... Sometimes a dream... 6'1... Shane... Wasted ... from memory, those are sortof easy. But the rest.. forget it, unless you've had 3 years of private tutoring. Or unless yer one of those damn naturally talented people *shakes fist*. Which explains the lack of Liz tabs around... good luck, / brett ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ "God bless Jerry Springer, and God bless Oprah too, God bless Elliot fucking Smith, and every one of you....." - Courtney, atta BDO. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ >Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:32:53 EST >From: AngelLieb@aol.com >Subject: A Question for guitar players > > >For those who play guitars or whatever (I ain't fancy with the >instruments, so please give me a break!)....... > Just curious....which Liz song do you find to be the most >difficult to play? > ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #36 ***********************************