From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #34 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, February 4 1999 Volume 02 : Number 034 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Turning Japanese [Amber Auld ] Emotional Rescue, Liz on radio show?,Tape Fund, Heather Nova [mhuisman ] Elliott Smith tickets - New York City ["steve singer" ] re: Turning Japanese ["Jenny Sayler" ] FEMart, 80's girls, and simile. [Dan ] Re: Emotional Rescue [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] More Scathing Lizphest Thoughts... ["Thomas M. Kreusler" ] New addition to Liz discography [Ken Lee ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #33 [LTN1@uno.cc.geneseo.edu] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:39:45 -0800 (PST) From: Amber Auld Subject: Re: Turning Japanese Hey this is my first time to post, so I'm not real sure on what I'm doing. Someone asked who originally did the song Turning Japanese. It was the Vapors. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:11:28 -0500 From: mhuisman Subject: Emotional Rescue, Liz on radio show?,Tape Fund, Heather Nova Hey all fellow support-systemers.... I just made an mp3 of Liz's song 'Emotional Rescue' from Liz's performance on WXRT Sound & Vision on 12/31/93. I was just curious if this was the only time tht Liz performed this song. Also, has anyone in the Buffalo/Southern Ontario area ever listened to this radio show 'Women in Music' (or its women in rock...i cant remember) Its played Sunday mornings at 10-11 am on ALICE@92.9 .Mostly they talk about Jewel,Sarah Maclachlan, and Paul Cole...But i turned it on last Sunday at the very end, and they were going over a list of names 'Jewel, Sarah Maclachlan, and LIZ PHAIR'.....I was going craaazy. I assume that they talked about her. So if anyone has taped this, please e-mail me. I'd love to know more about it, and maybe work out a trade. Also, KEN...I want to contribute to the tape fund. Is Canadian money ok? I dont really have time to get myself to a bank. Also, to whoever mentioned seeing Heather Nova, you are soooooooooooooo LUCKY! She swung by here (Toronto) in JUly on the 21st, I think. I would have seen her but I went to London for a month. Oh well:-) Oh and I just heard that Barbie's 40........dear GAWD:-) Marlie NP-Liz Phair, Rocket Boy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:21:27 -0500 From: "Bryan Moore" Subject: feminism and the biz +liz songs on guitar OK, this is against my better judgement, but here goes: To ShellBell------let me say first off that I am all for equal pay for equal work and all that jazz.....and I feel that women have been oppessed......but........in response to some of your comments, I must present a different view.....the music business has been dominated by males for reasons other then the great anti-women movement you describe.....and there have been stong female voices out there since the beginning --- aretha, janis, joni, grace slick, the sharelles, the ronnettes, nico (VU), madonna.........now, I would like to know how exactly and I quote "women are still opressed and dont have the same freedom as the male gender".....last time I checked you ladies were free to do anything you wanted.....I agree there is still a wage gap, but it is narrowing everyday.....I am not afraid of the womanist movement and I think women should do whatever they want, whenever they want..(most of the girls I know do) ..As for your guitar world comments (I have been playing for years)...the reason there are so few female guitarists out there is that few females like playing and/or are interested in learning the guitar....that 2 is also changing with the emergence of sarah and liz and jewel and whatnot.....but again they are playing folk style guitar.....even those ladies dont really play 'lead' guitar..(sarah does a bit)....on WCSE, liz played none of the lead guitar....personally, I love it when I go to a bar and see a girl playing guitar in a band, I think it is cool, and I think girls look hot when they play guitar(whole other issue)..... I think more chicks (sorry had to throw that in once) should learn to play lead guitar, they would definetly put a new twist on the traditional lead guitar styles...Oh, by the by, I am looking at the aug 98 issue of guitar one and on the cover is sarah, jewel, sheryl and alanis.....I do agree in the 80's there wasnt many girl guitarists other then the 2 you mentioned (joan jett etc.), but the 80's were a strange decade....as for the men in rock cd, you are right it would be stupid......I agree that there is no real need to have a women in rock cd to advance the movement, but I was looking at the first one in a record store and I almost bought it, there are lots of good tunes on it...as for lilith, kick as tour...not because they are all women, but because all the artists were amazing. Oh, in response to Katie who was asking guitar players what liz song is the hardest to play......the answer is none of them......they are all basic chord progressions with killer melodies and lyrics plus the occasional drop tuning....she does jump around the fretboard a lot, but none of her tunes are actually hard to play...... Love to all-----bryan Chief Wiggum: " Ahh, just get one of those inflateable women.....but make sure its a women though...cause one time I......ah........". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:24:11 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: hardest song Spaceeggy Katie asked what the hardest Liz song to play is? For me, I would have to say "Jealousy". It's kind of a complicated song, but hopefully I can to learn how to play it perfectly. *crosses fingers* For some reason I've been listening to the Stones' Exile In Mainstreet alot recently. I had forgotten what an amazing album that really is........... So Liz played "Chopsticks" in Atlanta.......COOL! She hasn't played that since the Whip-Smart solo tour. I'd love to hear that live!!! I feel like I'm never going to see Liz live. *sobs* Craig "The KingAdRock" "We'll be back to save rock 'n' roll. Because the way it's looking right now, it definately needs it." - Scott Weiland talking about Stone Temple Pilots making a new album _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:36:39 PST From: "steve singer" Subject: Elliott Smith tickets - New York City For those of you New York/New Jersey area liz phans who like Elliott Smith as well, his concerts at Irving Plaza for March 25, and March 26 went on sale at noon today. It's amazing how for such a large metropolitan area, onsales are never announced! So run down to Irving Plaza or go to Ticketmaster is you are interested. Click on this url for more information: http://newyork.citysearch.com/E/E/NYCNY/0011/35/49/ Enjoy! Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:01:42 PST From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: More girls and guitars OK, so i haven't gone off to sleep yet. All this talk about feminist rockers and the like is a bit weird. In the UK the music press like to lump everything into catagories, but Liz has avoided that over here. She came out at a time when not a lot was going on and had gone quiet when the "riotttt grrrrrls" thing broke over here. I see her being outside the obvious categories as a good thing, especially in this small isle. Any band who played rock were tagged as RG's, whether they were or not. Sleater-Kinney are still labeled as such and because of this it's hard for them to break out of the mould. Any "group" of bands, or movement is doomed. Soon the bandwagon is jumped on and every third rate mob, with a guitar and a marshall stack is touted as the next big thing, thus undermining the true talents of a "scene". There were several bands in the UK who were dire, but as they'd got onto the RG movement they made it harder for S-K to get credibility here. American bands arrived after the scene had been and gone, so everyone thought S-K were the bandwagon jumpers and by that time the bandwagon had been run out of town. The same can be said for Madder Rose & Belly. They came along after all the "Boston" scene was over (understandable in Belly's case) so they stuck out and therefore ignored. Confused? well, if they don't fit in then ignore them. Belly were flavour of the month for a while, but as there was no-one else to group them in with, they were hard to pin down. The music industry needs categories, or they don't know what to do with bands/artists. It's not confined to women, Buffalo Tom still have problems over here, because they've carried on making great music. How can this be? ask the press, they haven't self-combusted or gone off the rails. No, they're a great band, but as they're on their own, they can't be pigeonholed. So where does this leave LP? Hopefully she'll continue on her own as any lumping will undermine her credibility in the eyes of many. Sure she'll get compared to AM,. but the truth will out. Her rock stance will help, but don't expect mega-stardom. See Ruthies comments on Heather Nova, she's escaped lumping in the UK. The press had no idea what to put her into, so they ignored her, just remarking that she was a female singer-songwriter, etc. She still pulls in good crowds and sells a reasonable amount of records, but she's doing her thing, as she wants to and making great records. Sorry if this was long and rambly, but i wanted my say. You don't want to get me started on the "opening for AM" subject! I must sleep soon. "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:15:27 -0600 From: "Jenny Sayler" Subject: re: Turning Japanese "I heard 'Turning Japanese' the radio twice last week on the same station...but it wasn't Liz. Did she do a cover of this song? Does anyone know who wrote/sang it originally?" The Vapors originally did this song in the early 80's I believe ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "Nobody puts Baby in the corner" - Patrick Swayze- from the movie Dirty Dancing http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:23:59 -0500 From: Dan Subject: FEMart, 80's girls, and simile. FEMart17 wrote: >What do you thinik feminists can only sing about being raped and armpit hair?? >Most woman are feminists-- really!!! If a woman is willing to stand up for >her sex----she is a feminist!! In that case, yes I agree...In that case, I am a feminist. I completely look at women as equal, actually, it is retarded that I even have to say that, because I don't even think of WOMEN as a seperate..um...category...you know what I mean?? SUre, in that sense, Liz is a feminist...she is a strong women figure. However, I do not see her belonging to a certain "movement". Sure, she is a female singer...and I will admit, I TOTALLY prefer female singers...the majority of my favorites are women, but that's just apples and oranges..my ears just prefer the female singing voice. For me, of all people, it has nothing to do with the fact that they have vaginas. Sorry, i am debating on erasing that line now..i hate saying shit like that, but i'll let it slide this time. But sure...any open minded person can be considered a feminist, really, if you look at it that way. I just don't see Liz belonging to some big feminist "movement." I just see her as a rock and roller. But I agree..if a woman is willing to stand up for her sex (which is Liz) then sure, she's a helping hand along the way...I guess I just don't see her as a big activist...seems like she's just having some fun and influencing a BILLION and one things in a bunch of different aspects, women, being one of many, many others. SHelley wrote: >I'm thrilled to death that my children are going to >have the opportunity to see women in rock unlike my deprived childhood >where there was only Vixen and Joan Jett in a sea of motley crues and >skid rows and slaughters and AC/DCs and Metallicas, only one Go-Gos >in a slew of male punk bands. well, you failed to mention Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchel, Kate Bush, Sinead O'Connor, Pat Benatar, Debbie Harry, Runaways, Bangles, Indigo Girls, hell - - "LEE FUCKING ARRON" (woo hoo "Whatcha do to my body?") for all us Canadians out there!! - DAMN, Madonna for that matter!! (oh - and the band WHAM! - kidding!) the list goes on and on and on and on...it wasn't like *we* were living in the dark ages when women were totally looked down upon as lower class, lesser citizen - slaves to men. There were always girl rockers...always. SUre, there are more now..but there is more of everthing now! I don't know..i sure don't see my childhood deprived of female singers (and I am a child of the 80's) - my youth was filled with the Bangles, Go-Go's, Joan Jett, Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, and I merged right into Debbie Harry, Joni, Sinead...and on and on and on..now I'm at Liz Phair, Courtney Love and sleater-kinney.... Nothing wrong at all with being a feminist...i hope it doesn't come off as me knocking that...nothing wrong at all with sticking up for one's sex. I really think though, that categories have to start going out the window...I know what you mean about categories being the only way to really get things going on a better level, banding together, etc..but at the same time, i think we need to all start shaking hands and merging into one great big category where EVERYONE is just open minded. Rock is rock. people are people. That'd be nice. "She lost all her innocence, gave it to an absess..she lost all her innocence, she said 'I am not a feminist....'" -Hole. sorry...that quote was going through my head all through the day at school...does she really say "absess" or did i get it wrong..at any rate...hope no one hates me. oh ya..by the way - I must apologize! I never realized how many similes liz actually does have in her songs!! sneaky sneaky girl! Making me think she was straight forward, and she's being poetic the whole time!! what a gal! GOD! I love her! Out the window, dan. ****************************************************** "Crash and Burn, all the stars explode tonight." -Hole. ****************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:29:15 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Emotional Rescue At 09:11 AM 2/3/1999 -0500, Marlie wrote: >I just made an mp3 of Liz's song 'Emotional Rescue' from Liz's >performance on WXRT Sound & Vision on 12/31/93. I was just curious if >this was the only time tht Liz performed this song. "Emotional Rescue" is not a Liz song; it was originally done by the Rolling Stones (not an _Exile on Main Street_ track, though). On Liz's first tour for _Exile in Guyville_, she would regularly incorporate part of this song into her performance of "Divorce Song." Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:40:36 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Blue Room" Subject: Elliot Smith? I know there are some Elliot Smith fans on the list, so email me back privately if you have any info regarding trying to book him for a show. A friend of mine does the booking for a small club in a (relatively) small college town and her most ambitious plan for this spring is to try to get Elliot Smith. Any ideas? >Liz Phair >Whitechocolatespaceegg >Matador/Capitol import >*The third album from the /thinking person's Alanis/ and former Rolling >Stone cover star. Currently available in Britain on import only. I kinda like that. Peter Today's Word of the Day, direct from Webster's Third New International Dzo Hobble and Dictionary: eunuch flute: (n.) KAZOO. NP (in my head): VU, "I'm waiting for the man" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas M. Kreusler" Subject: More Scathing Lizphest Thoughts... Props to Cindy N. for her organizational acumen...I'm hoping for a lavish turnout of the truly dedicated... Now, on a darker note... I feel genuine sorrow for those trapped in their teenage years who might not be able to score the cash or permission to join in the festivities at the tentatively-planned Chicago-based Lizphest. On the other hand, I would also like to say, "HA!" I, along with my twenty-and-thirty-something concomitants have weathered those storms long ago...and it is time to cash in the chips of age, so to speak. I speculate that many younger phans on this list have aspirations of flocking to the Chicago Lizphest, and I earnestly hope that they can go. In fact, I urge them to make it happen. But by no means am I advocating that you MINORS (God, it feels good to write that) steal dad's Visa card, sneak out of the house at 2:00 AM and hop on a plane to Chicago... Now, I'm quite sure that everyone on this list can handle themselves with dignity and honor (yeah, right), regardless of the surroundings or situation. I'll admit, attending a soiree of such grandiose expectations is quite tempting, and certain (illegal) obstacles may have to be negotiated by the under aged to fully participate in all of the merriment. But as a frequent experimenter of out-of-state excursions, spring- breaks, road-trips, ski-trips and the like, I would like to offer some stern advice to our youngest phans here: If you go, please be prepared to face the appropriate consequences if you are caught performing a "no-no." The proposed "Lizphest" is currently mired with uncertainty, and with uncertainty comes strife, chaos and unforeseen occurrences that are potentially hazardous to your well-being. It has been my experience (personal and observant), that ONE ill-timed fuck-up usually creates a nasty ripple effect within a friendly group that can spread faster than Alan-ass's butt-cheeks on a subway seat (oooh, I couldn't resist that one). This type of reaction will render even the most savvy road warriors helpless, powerless and broke (not to mention disgusted). You might say, "he's crazy...nothing's going to happen..." But you watch. People act differently around others. A little more loose. A little more gutsy. Wanton. Reckless, even. A little caution can go a long way in preventing angry parents from storming a hotel and corralling their miscreants in a furious rage. A little prudence can suspend people with unseasoned livers from getting shit-faced within an hour's time and launching shapely projectiles of vomit on to an unsuspecting bouncer. And a person using even the slightest amount of discretion can elude an arrest for using a fake ID, hanging monkey-style off of a hotel balcony or...stealing a police helicopter. TMK Flame on I'm gone I'm so sweet like a nice bon bon - -Beastie Boys You want a part of me Well I'm not selling cheap No, I'm not selling cheap - -Hole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:35:43 -0500 (EST) From: Syrup@concentric.net Subject: sessions at west 54th revisited just thought I'd pass this along for the benefit of any other Houston phans. *sigh* - -drew - -- Dear Drew, Thank you for your e-mail. We appologize for the delayed response. We just recently got caught up from all the Christmas e-mails received. KUHT-CH8 has scheduled Sessions at West 54th with Liz Phair,etc. to air on February 14, 1999 at 12:30AM. Happy Valentine's Day! Houston Public Television ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:06:36 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: More fully-baked thoughts It's interesting that there's actually an argument as to whether or not Liz is part of a feminist-rocker movement. Liz is whatever a fan wants her to be. She knows there are different expectations of her, from different people (critics, men, women who see her as a feminist heroine, and women who don't), and tries at different times to satisfy each. From Bikini magazine, Oct. 1998: "'Liz Phair! Fuck yeah! She rocks!' said the rocker boys who found themselves chord by chord figuring out an album by a chick for the first time in... forever? 'Liz Phair! Feminist icon of female sexual agency! Provocateur with a guitar!' wrote the armchair academics who saw Exile as an empowering statement. And, of course, there was 'Liz Phair! Babe!' For her part, Liz seemed eager to accommodate those who wanted to project their own hopes for and interpretations of what it meant for a cute, well-to-do girl from the North Shore of Chicago to talk dirty and to rock hard." It depends on the person what their interpretation is of Liz Phair as an entity. Gender definitely plays a big role in whether or not you see Liz as a feminist icon. Liz was never comfortable in that position, though. She was flattered by it, but felt weird about the whole thing because that's not something she ever set out to do. She wrote for personal -- not political -- reasons, lest we forget. She wrote to impress a certain indie scene in which she was never taken seriously. She never set out to be on the cover of Rolling Stone. She just went with it, totally not anticipating the impact she had. She likes to say she thought Exile would sell 1,300 copies and that would be great because that gives reason to re-press. It's not totally wrong to think of Liz as a feminist rocker, but one should understand Liz's early motives before trying to directly link her to a movement. In the past, Liz said she felt like she was one of 3 in a female rock group: Courtney Love, PJ Harvey, and herself. All 3 are feminists, but the connection Liz saw was actually that they are the 3 most critically acclaimed female rockers of the '90s. Shelley wrote: "And as far as labeling goes that's where the power is, in movements. Can you change anything without banding together and making yourself seen? I do agree that it shouldn't have to be "women in rock" but I just don't think we live in a society where there is really any other option." and Ruthie wrote: "the general type of people that would be most attracted to liz's music ... and would be most likely to appreciate all the uniqueness and genius of her music ... and lyrics ... are those that [are] more into the music club scene ... face it.. your typical "indie rock boy/girl" ... [is] much more likely to "get" liz's music than your typical alan-ass fan." I've often wanted to take aside wagon-hoppers/friends of mine and say "Do you even realize how different Liz Phair is? Can you possibly appreciate her work?" Because I think a lot of people don't 'get' it, whether they're fans or not. I think if you 'get' Liz Phair, then you know how to classify her -- it may be difficult, but you can kind of cut it down to a few descriptive terms, and you don't worry about what kind of feminist she is, or how 'Lilith' she is (and I don't think she's very Lilith). Liz is a brainy, feel-good rock-and-roller, not really a political one, though it's understandable that people would confuse the two. Ruthie also wrote: "pardon any obvious indie-snobberies that appear to have crept in to the above dissertation. i am a snob, and i admit it, and all in all, i don't think it's that bad a thing." In the olden days, 'indie snobbery' laced many a digest, although it wasn't openly frowned upon until recently. I don't think anyone should be ashamed of their musical passions/beliefs. If indie rock's your thing, you should be able to shout about it. Good taste has become shameful, and it doesn't have to be. You have to have standards, if you care at all about music. This is so long, I imagine people thinking 'Oh great, another tirade from Web TV-using Steve.' My New Year's resolution should have been to stop posting, but it's so hard to stay out of these debates. Steve "do it right, save time" Kisko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:07:43 EST From: TADude9999@aol.com Subject: turning japanese This song was done by a band called the Vapors, and Liz' version is a tad slower than the original. TAD NP Peter Himmelman "Flown this Acid World" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:30:19 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Alanis It just figures that they would have a big picture and article about Alanis on the frontpage of the Life section in Wenesday's USA Today newspaper. That's funny, I don't remember seeing Liz on the front page when WCSE came out!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! *swears out loud* Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:08:33 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Lee Subject: New addition to Liz discography Hi everyone, Just added a new item to the Liz Phair discography. Go to: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/discography.html for the details... - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:42:02 -0500 (EST) From: LTN1@uno.cc.geneseo.edu Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #33 hi this is laura. i just wanted to know if anyone knew latin. if they did, i have a phrase that i need to know what it means,if someone could e-mailme andi'll email the phrase to them, i would really appreciate it!!!!!!! love,laura ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #34 ***********************************