From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #32 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, February 2 1999 Volume 02 : Number 032 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Movement? What movement? [Michael Connolly ] [none] ["robert joyner" ] The Cover of the Rolling Stone.com [Matt Schulz ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #31 ["keelyfish" ] Liz and Alan-ass ["Thomas M. Kreusler" ] Stuff, please read [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] FemART17's comments on Alanis. [Dan ] OH MY GOD!!!!!! ["Stacey Wirt" ] Stuffing and replies [AngelLieb@aol.com] Doll Parts and Fuck and Run? [AngelLieb@aol.com] I forgot something! ["Stacey Wirt" ] road rules, real world blah blah [LULU428@aol.com] Re: bitchng, moaning and a liz interview... ["Valerie J. Barry" ] my perfect world ["Jenny Sayler" ] Ken [Craig King ] Liz Phest, diamonds in rough, etc. ["Cynthia Nagle" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:44:36 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Connolly Subject: Movement? What movement? >Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:15:56 EST >From: RT17@aol.com >There is a big difference between liking Alanis' >music and respecting her work. She is, in my humble >opinion, a crusader in the feminist movement in >music. In case any of you haven't noticed--LIZ PHAIR >IS A PART OF THAT MOVEMENT TOO! Just remember, next time you are making fun of Alanis->etc. that an artist is entitled to like whatever >music they wish, wear whatever they want, and tour >with whoever the hell they want to!!!!!! Musical artists aren't products created to >please us--they are real people--take it easy. < Again, I disagree. One of these "girl power" acts that you speak of, Spice Girls, are exactly that - a manufactured product to rake in cash for the corporation. And it's working because consumers would rather be told what to like than spend some extra effort and time to find what they should like. I, and maybe others here, would like to know which female artists you've supported by buying one of they're CDs lately? Or seen locally at a club or other small venue as they perform live. That is how you support your "movement", by picking a few artists special to you and doing what you can to make their choice to perform the right one - even if it's just going to see them, and talking to them afterwards about how they've affected you. Try it sometime - it's much more rewarding (and productive) than being one in 3 million to buy something. And now I'll pass the soapbox to someone else... == Mikey C Va Beach An unfamous, but not that kind, of guy. "I like cats too. Let's exchange recipes." - - Ward Larsen _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:29:36 PST From: "robert joyner" Subject: [none] nicole w. said ....This list isn't a place to bring this,.... Who ever thought that nicole would be the one to lecture us on appropriate topics for this list? Is that what they mean by irony? Seems to me Miss Katie was trying to do us all a favor and get the x-files talk off of this particular list. Meredith wrote ....This is what we call mature discussion...... LOL. Trust me, that animal is an endangered species when it comes to this list. Robert Joyner robnashville@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:04:16 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Schulz Subject: The Cover of the Rolling Stone.com Well, everyone. Go to rollingstone.com and read about our gal. Right now, its on the front page. Very interesting. Sounds like she's itching to make the follow-up to the Egg. Woo-hoo!! Matt Schulz The Glory of Liz Phair http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/5064/ == Matt Schulz schulz52@yahoo.com - ----------- "I believe in the Church of Baseball" - -- Annie Savoy, Bull Durham _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:18:52 -0600 From: "keelyfish" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #31 A couple things : ) "She is, in my humble opinion, a crusader in the feminist movement in music. In case any of you haven't noticed--LIZ PHAIR IS A PART OF THAT MOVEMENT TOO!" There was some article-maybe it was on the matador site (?) where they're talking about people calling liz a post feminist and liz is like, "i don't even know what a post feminist is." She goes on to say that she just thinks women should be treated as well or better than men cause they've been dicked around for so long. I honestly don't think she considers herself part of any movement, though. (now, that's just my opinion so please leave the nasty flames at home, everyone) I think a t-shirt would be way cool! I made one the other night with iron on transfers and it's really crappy, but i tried!! hee hee : ) i wore it for like three days straight : ) keely ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas M. Kreusler" Subject: Liz and Alan-ass Sorry to beat a dead horse - well, it could be alive and kicking at this point...anyway, I wouldn't put TOO much faith in what Liz says about Alan-ass' music...because from a public relations point of view, she HAS to make at least semi-decent statements about that freak. I know that Liz always speaks her mind and doesn't bullshit, but this is one situation where she can't really say to an interviewer, "Well, actually, I think her music really sucks ass, big-time." I read the interview and Liz certainly sounded genuine (as always), but they're TOURING together, for fuck's sake. It would be suicide for Liz to say ANYTHING even REMOTELY condescending about Alan-ass. Liz would be the laughing stock of the music industry if she berated Alan-ass in an interview and was subsequently kicked off the tour for it... Obviously, one of the reasons that Liz is touring with Alan-ass is exposure. She knows that a pretty large throng of young Alan-ass fans probably listen to a lot of mainstream (i.e. radio), and she might be able to woo some of them over with her "radioesque" material. For this reason, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Liz played a higher percentage of songs from her new album than she did on the solo tour. Liz's public statements can influence impressionable Alan-ass fans...when these drones hear how much Liz is raving about their pathetic heroine, she will become more appealing to them. And also to Alan-ass herself, whom I'm sure Liz wouldn't mind being friendly with because she's a marketing phenom and probably has excellent business contacts. I've never thought Liz was untruthful in an interview - but that's because I believe her to be...inimitable...but I also think that statements concerning her touring partner's music could be taken out of context. TMK "One of the joys of going to the movies was that it was trashy, and we should never lose that." - --Oliver Stone ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:07:04 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Stuff, please read I've really been enjoying the last few digests. It's so good to see less crap and more meat. That's what happens when Jase posts every day! Thank you, Rachel, for posting the Jam TV interview, I was wondering when we'd see a new one. I live for new Liz interviews, I really do. I agree with everything Jase said about Liz's tastes in popular music, I think it's kind of funny. I should point out, though, that there is a lot of silly music that Liz likes that I also like. I'm a fan of '70s pop/rock, I love lots of the one-hit-wonder stuff. No harm in that. You just have to be able to understand the difference between enjoyable junk and respectable rock and roll. As far as knocking women who are part of a 'movement,' I should say that I'm all for women who rock, I just always thought that the idea of celebrating a bunch of chicks in music _regardless_ of their actual talent is wayyy (pardon the extra y's) lame. I always worried that the mainstream types of people, upon learning that Liz Phair was part of Lilith last summer, would assume she's another Jewel or Paula or whatever. I read an excellent article at Meredith's site from a Washington paper that did a top-notch dissection of Liz's recent promotional moves, saying no matter how much she tried to be 'on the inside' with the Lilith ladies, she remains separated from them by 'what's in her head,' or something to that effect. I think that completely applies to the Alanis situation. Melissa in Buffalo: I, too, noticed that Phair & Manson said the same thing about Alanis. Anyone remember what another Manson (Marilyn, that is) said about Courtney Love? Now they're touring together! Just something to think about. re: Liz writing new songs -- I knew she would be. Doesn't she have a recording studio in her apartment, like on the third floor? Recording doesn't necessarily mean she's heading out of the house. It could mean 4-track. But when she does head out, I hope it's over to Idful. I'm confident that whatever direction she takes, it won't be in the Natalie Merchant vein, as someone on the list had been worrying. To the girl who wanted to know what else Liz scientists listen to: I recommend Guided by Voices (not that far removed from Liz, if you think about it) and two artists relatively new to me: Jen Trynin & Yo La Tengo. I was slow in buying the former so Jase helped me out, and I am much impressed with _Cockamamie_. (I cross the street, too, Jen.) YLT's _I Can Hear the Heart..._ is excellent, especially "Stockholm Syndrome." I could sort of remember hearing "Jealousy" on one of the MTV shows, too, but I was positive that I heard "Whip-smart" at some point, so that's what I posted. I will concur that it may have been the San Francisco season. Speaking of San Francisco... Steve "I love San Francisco, I lived here for a while, on 5th & Harrison, above the Sawmill. We had an excellent loft, and I spent all my money, and we smoked pot all day long [cheers of approval from audience]. And then I had to go home." -LP ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:16:40 -0500 From: Dan Subject: FemART17's comments on Alanis. FemART17@aol.com wrote: (RE: ALanis and Liz Phair) >She is, in my humble opinion, a crusader in the feminist movement in >music. In case any of you haven't noticed--LIZ PHAIR IS A PART OF THAT >MOVEMENT TOO! Hmmm...i don't know if I lump them together..I mean, I can understand the link, but I do not classify Liz as a "Feminist" female artist. She's a rock and roller. She writes about EVERYTHING from Elvis to Sex to drugs to breaking up to being in love. I have never really heard Liz say she is doing this to change the state that women are in today. From what I gather, especially in regards to her being in Lilith this summer, she wanted to hang out with some girls and have a blast, for a change. FemART17@aol.com also wrote: >It hurts me to >hear people put down an artist who actually stands up for what they believe. >Being a feminist, I enjoy listening to music that breaks molds for women--Liz >does that, and so does Alanis. Um..see, I am not going to knock Alanis at all..but I really think that LIZ's music is more geared to personal emotions...than Alanis is..Alanis is more like someone trying hard to make a statement - it is more than obvious in her lyrics (which, please note, I have not knocked) whereas Liz Phair is making songs..pure and simple (yet insanely, geniusly crafted) songs with hard hitting SIMPLE straight forward lyrics. Liz Phair is not using simile's and symbolism and triambic pentameter (!?!!) in her songs...she's flat out saying "IF YOU DO IT AND YER STILL UNHAPPY, THEN YOU KNOW THAT THE PROBLEM IS YOU." blah. Plain and simple. I cannot see Liz Phair as a feminist singer...I picture her as someone who has been around the block in many aspects of her life..someone with a bit of wisdom, whether she knows she has it or not.. I mean, even back in her early 20's - her music was amazingly mature, mature in the sense that she was in touch with so many emotions - she skipped the Fiona Apple stage, I don't classify her as angst ridden and angry at the world, I don't think Liz has ever had a "HEY LOOK AT ME I'm a ROCKER GRRRRRRRRRL" attitude. ...she doesn't have to use big words, she's just being frank. I think the biggest problem of today is people labelling people like Liz and PJ and Sinead and Natalie Merchant ect.. ect.. as "WOMEN OF ROCK". I have a question? WHy aren't there "MEN OF ROCK" CD compilations?? There aren't are there? No, men rockers are just called ROCKERS. People have to get rid of this whole categorizing. That creates an "US AND THEM" attitude. Of course, I have looked passed this "WOMEN IN ROCK" thing and I am sure MOST of us here look passed that...I don't see Liz as a feminist, breaking barriors for women. She's just speaking her mind. Every woman has a voice. No one says they can't speak up. Liz is just picking up her guitar and telling us all a really good story. ALL of us. NOt women. NOt lesbians, not phags like me. Just everyone who can appreciate a good lyricist and some nifty guitar work. Hey - if she helps things out along the way for ANYONE mentioned above - more power to her. But i think for the most part, Liz is just a lone rock star with a shitload of songs in her back pocket. also wrote: >Just remember, >next time you are making fun of Alanis-etc. that an artist is entitled to >like whatever music they wish, wear whatever they want, and tour with whoever >the hell they want to!!!!!! WEll said. Amen to that. Joining the priest hood - KIDDING! Dan. ****************************************************** "Crash and Burn, all the stars explode tonight." -Hole. ****************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:52:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Stacey Wirt" Subject: OH MY GOD!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!! OK, I know I'm a little late here, but I just finished reading the digest from a few days ago and OH MY GOD LIZ IS WRITING SONGS!!!! I was so affraid that wcse was going to be her last album... There was some article in raygun about how she said that after wcse that she didn't have another album in her... something like that .... I don't know, I can't think straight...Dark stuff... Very cool because one of my favorite songs is "easy" (I think Jase said this was his favorite too...I don't remember). New songs!! New Album!! GO LIZ PHAIR!!! - --Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:02:03 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Stuffing and replies Bryan wrote: "Everyone else should post their local radio stations request lines and/or web sites so we can request the Phair one on a regular basis" Um....Orlando DJs = *blagh* I've tried way too many times for them to play Liz and they just don't get it. Soooo.. I avoid them at ALL costs cuz they're big jerks. The only station I'd find myself listening to is 98.9FM, which is some classic rock station. I'm not sure of it's little signature. Hmmmm... FemART17@aol.com (name?) wrote: "I guess it is just another example of that "girl power"craze" Rut ro....Spice Girls? *Girl Pow-wah!* Amen? Ohki, I've gotten the chance to chill after getting the chance to make my best friend nearly two tapes of my fave Liz songs she hasn't heard yet cuz she already has four. Teehee! Go me. About the She's All That talk, I said I'd check the movie out cuz I work at a movie theater and my theater got the movie, soooo.....I got in for free. I offered to be the little lab rat to save everyone the money cuz I personally believe it's not worth spending $4 to see it, maybe when it's a the dollar theater or something. It's an ohk movie, but it's funny. Hmmmm.. Next topic. I got around to starting an X Phile list. If interested in joining, go to: onelist.com. The name of the list is X-Phile929. Hmmm.. I sure hope it will work out! If you have any trouble, please let me know and I'll send you the necessary info! Katie ();) Now playing: Voice of the Beehive Now eating: Turkey with stuffing and gravy. *burp* Excuse me! *covers mouth* teehee! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:25:33 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Doll Parts and Fuck and Run? Hmmmm.. I forgot to mention that I listened to Phairities with another friend of mine in the car and when Fuck and Run came on my friend made this comment. She said it reminds her of Hole's Doll Parts. *scratches head* I'm listening to it now and I don't see any connections at all! Oh well, we had a mess of fun with the Tra La La Song. ();) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 19:41:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Stacey Wirt" Subject: I forgot something! One more thing before I forget.... Jason said: Yay!!!!!!!!! I adore you, Jason, for organizing this gigantic project on top of everything else in your life. Thank You!!! But I have one tinsy winsy question (for Jason or for anyone who knows): What is this so-called "equipment" that will make high quality tapes??? What is it? How does it work? I'm curious because I am fairly new to the whole cd burning, bootlegging, mp3-ing scene. Any definitions for a confused liz phan?? - --Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:42:29 EST From: LULU428@aol.com Subject: road rules, real world blah blah I guess I am not the real world/road rules affiecianado (sp?) I thought I was. boy, you guys put me in my place! I loved that interview Rachel! where have you been? I havent seen you post in awhile. oh well, I am going to go and watch the new season of road rules... Lani ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:42:00 -0500 From: "Valerie J. Barry" Subject: Re: bitchng, moaning and a liz interview... hello support systemers.... haven't reared my head in a while, but i thought i'd share a few things....first, as i type, liz probably just finished her opening set for alanis at the fabulous fox theatre here in atlanta. and, as much as i was against paying $30 for not-so-great seats with alanis, i'm wishing i would have done it. even though it pained me so to have to get refunds for my original liz tickets at the much-smaller roxy...bitch, bitch, moan, moan! i guess this also means she's staying in town tonight and tomorrow (there are two shows). i wonder where she'll hang out, and how cool would it be to run into her at lunch or something... and, for those of you who are into reading liz interviews, here's the one from today's atlanta journal-constitution. as much as the ajc sucks, it's pretty cool that liz got an interview and alanis did not. actually, i'm ok with alanis, i'm just bitter that i didn't get the small venue experience i've craved since 1993. but, i digress: LEAVING DOMESTIC LIFE BEHIND, PHAIR ON ROAD WITH MORISSETTE by Steve Dollar, staff writer She's not quite thte silver-tongued rock waif whose catchy, sexually blunt confessions and lo-fi guitar riffs made her a cause celebre in 1993. That was the year Liz Phair became alternative rock's wonder woman, her debut album "Exile in Guyville" (Matador) an incisive analysis of the war between the sexes that catapulted the songwriter up Top 10 lists and made ehr a perennnial critics' darling. Now the mother of a 2-year-old boy, Nick, married and living in the Chicago suburbs, Phair, 31, can measure her influence on a slew of emerging female pop stars. One of them, Alanis Morissette, invited Phair to open for her tour, which visits the Fox Theatre tonight and Tuesday. Phair's recent "whitechocolatespaceegg" (Matador/Capitol), her third album, has also fared well with critics. If it lacks the edge previously associated with the songwriter, the album also finds her exploring new narrative situations - easing out of obvious first-person vignettes to develop a ficitonal voice. We spoke to her recently about motherhood, rock 'n' roll and the charms of disreputable men. Q: Are you taking your kid out on the road? A: No. I have enjoyed his company immensely. [But] when I go out [on tour] I go out with myself. I spent a couple of months here myself at home and I'm ready to rock. I need both sides of my life. Q: I gather from the reviews that you're more comfortable about performing now. A: I'm having a lot of fun. But opening for Alanis is definitely nerve-wracking. I'm hoping that my exposure from Lilith [Fair] will give me some gauge of what I'm doing. I'm excited to meet her. I don't know how I hooked up, probably through luck and people who knew people. Q: It makes sense. There's a connection there. A: There's a boldness in the lyrical content, and a lot of self-discovery stuff. I, of course, have sold 45 billion [albums] worldwide, but i'll give her a break. Q: OK, it's time for the silly questions. "Ally McBeal" or "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? A: God, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" in a second! Ally drives me so crazy I can't watch it. I really hate those really self-conscious characters and stars on TV. I can't stand them. I want them to die. It's not about a feminist statement. It's really about taste and entertainment. Buffy's way cooler...Are you going to ask me a silly question? so there you have it folks...also, i love the idea of e-mailing radio stations. please start with atlanta's 99X at http://www.99x.com/. they were promoting her tour before the cancellation, but does that mean they play her? not as far as i've noticed. while i'm at it, i've found that forcing my friends to listen to liz doesn't work so well...they just don't crack the door too far when i push hard on them (sorry, couldn't resist). but, if i play it in the car, at home or on a jukebox at the righteous room and they see hwo much i enjoy it, their curiosity is piqued and they are receptive. i don't expect everyone to get it, but when they do, i get a warm fuzzy... also, whoever it was that suggested "imagineradio" is a godsend....can't wait until i get my new computer with sound at work. thanks for reading...back to lurking for a spell... valerie *********************************************************** "...well look at me i'm frightening my friends..." - -Liz Phair ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:45:58 -0600 From: "Jenny Sayler" Subject: re: Tad's comment Ya know, I thought this comment was meant in a sarcastic way, so I laughed when I read it. No offense taken here (although I definitely will not be taking an interest in alan-ass) =) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "Nobody puts Baby in the corner" - Patrick Swayze- from the movie Dirty Dancing http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:17:18 -0600 From: "Jenny Sayler" Subject: my perfect world Jase wrote: "I know that some of us have expressed that we weren't thrilled with the idea of Liz touring with Alanis, but I don't think anyone ever demanded that Liz not go through with it"** Haahaa, this struck my funny bone "I demand LIz, that you not tour with alanis. And furthermore, I demand that you record a new album, a good one, and that you give me a private concert, and play every song that I request!" Hee hee, this would be nice **note: no offense to jase, liz, or anyone, this is just a little joke! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "Nobody puts Baby in the corner" - Patrick Swayze- from the movie Dirty Dancing http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:50:55 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Ken Oh Ken oh Ken, come out wherever you are. Just wondering the progress on the CD's from the tape fund. When do you think you'll have them done? When do you think they will go out? I'm dying to know!!!! I'm sure everyone else is too. Craig "The KingAdRock" "You want extreme, I'll show you extreme........... *smashes head with singapore cane* Let's dance!!!!" - The Sandman _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:00:42 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: Liz Phest, diamonds in rough, etc. Hey everybody, Incredible, what a rollercoaster of a list this is...? Alright, let's get down to business. (I love saying that. ;^) ) I'm probably going to regret this... but I need to have a rough idea of how many people are REALLY, SERIOUSLY coming to Liz Phest in Chicago (July 9-10-11, 1999). Now, I DON'T want to hear from anyone who "might" be coming, is "thinking" of coming but not sure, needs to get permission from parents who have at best frowned upon the idea... NO. I need to hear from people who are REALLY, SERIOUSLY coming. Who have marked the dates on the calendar, asked for time off, perhaps already bought plane or bus tickets, who don't need to be chaperoned. Those of you who are REALLY, SERIOUSLY coming, send me a ***private*** e-mail, with the word YES in the subject line -- NO message. Just YES in the subject line. Got it? I will not answer individual questions, I'm just going to count the number of YESses I get. If you're not sure you're coming, if there's about a 50/50 chance of your coming, please DON'T respond with a "yes." I mean it. Oh, cripe almighty, here's hoping my ISP's server doesn't go berserk... In other news... by far the 2 best posts lately were the Tape Tree FAQ and the Liza Ghorbani interview with Liz. Thanks, Jase and Rachel Bussel -- they were keepers! And I really dug Jase's observation in #30 about how <> It never ceases to amaze me, when I listen to Liz's music and read/see interviews with her, how alike we are in some ways. nicoApril: hey! Someone else on the list who likes Music from Big Pink! :^) Actually, I like most of your picks for 10 albums to take into the afterlife. (If there is one.) Although I'm not crazy about Top 10 lists in general. Unless they're from David Letterman. Oh, give me an acerbic gap-toothed man...! Ken Lee: where ya been? Good to hear from you. Moe may have already offered, but if not, I'm willing to translate your French articles -- I majored in French in college. BTW, any update on when we might see the CD in our mailboxes? More non-Liz content: HBO has been playing Boogie Nights quite a bit lately, and I've seen it several times now. Does anyone else like it as much as I do? Damn, I think it's terrific. Cool in my own perverse way, and proud of it. Not afraid to be uncool. Hurricane Cindy NP: "Ask Me," The Smiths, from my #1 mix tape! (thanks Johnny) ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #32 ***********************************