From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #20 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, January 21 1999 Volume 02 : Number 020 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Ellison, LizPhest, posting hints [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] stopped lurking for a little while [Tiffany M Wilson ] mazzy star ["keelyfish" ] Re: support-system-digest V2 #19 ["Darrin J. Schroeder" ] Liz in Guitar World [Craig King ] Let's get going on Liz Phest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Cra] Re: Let's get going on Liz Phest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! [Ki] [none] ["miss erin" ] Mazzy Star, Hole, Rocket Boy [Alice Springs ] an actual real post. [Nicole Weisberg ] sigh [Nicole Weisberg ] one last thing [Nicole Weisberg ] California Phest [Alice Springs ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:38:16 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Ellison, LizPhest, posting hints Nobody said anything bad about Jim Ellison's work with Liz, so I will. Not to rip on Jim or anything (God rest his soul), but I think it's kind of a good thing Liz can't work with him anymore. No one else she's worked with has taken the core Liz Phair sound and thrown it out the window (although Litt came close). Ellison did. It doesn't happen when Liz works with Brad, because he understands how to mold a Liz song into something other than 'guitar & voice.' But Ellison's collaborations w/ Liz are pretty offensive. No true Liz Phair fan would say that the 3 Ellison-influenced songs she released compare to anything else she ever did. Think about it. 2 covers and a sub-par Liz original, all power-popped out, sounding like Material Issue but not at all like Liz Phair. Excuse me. Tom Kreusler - loved your post, please send more. I agree on all counts. I think this has been said before, but I don't know if everyone caught it (obviously not everyone reads these digests before posting, as evidenced by certain recent posts): Liz Phest is in Chicago, in July. Cindy Nagle came up with the idea, & I think suggestions should be sent to her. Anyone who doesn't like Chicago as a location can have a mini-Liz Phest somewhere else, but the rest of us will be in Chicago (that's Liz's hometown, in case we've forgotten), where we can see Wicker Park & all its bars & studios & hangouts and whatnot, and if time/gas allows, maybe we can see Winnetka (I know I'd like to). And, as Cindy said before, everyone is responsible for their own lodging. (see TMK's post). Details don't need to be worked out so explicity - I think we can pretty much wing it when we get there. My experience has been that if you plan something out too much, it will *not* turn out the way you planned. Also, let's try to keep the cheese factor there to a minimum (if you know what I mean). Now, here are a few posting guidelines (unwritten ones). These are some things that never needed to be said in the past, but judging from the digests of, oh, let's say ...the past 6 months or so, I think everyone needs to be conscious of a few things before clicking 'Send.' 1) *Try* to keep all posts relevant. Like, if it's not about Liz, couldn't it at least be about *music*? Ya think? 2) Often we may need to contact other listmembers in this forum because we can't reach them otherwise, and that's fine, but under normal circumstances, it's not wise to post stuff to the list that would be better suited for a personal e-mail. 3) Before you send a post, maybe try and re-read (proofread) what you've written and decide if it's something you really want nearly 900 other people (mostly strangers) to be reading. At last count, last night, there were 881 subscribers. Try to keep this in mind. In short, try to use common sense. If you don't have any, ask a friend, neighbor, or teacher to lend you some. It will make the digest a lot more readable in the future (and closer to what it was in the past). Sorry if I sound smug -- believe me, my posts from years past are nothing to print out and hang on the refrigerator. But I know what I'm talking about, put it that way. And this isn't just bullshit I'm making up on the spur of the moment. There are others who will agree that such hints as the above are helpful. You'd be surprised. - -SK "Sometimes I wish that I could stop you from talking when I hear the silly things that you say..." -Costello ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:15:42 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: stopped lurking for a little while Hey, first, Chipko, You are sooooo lucky. You got to meet Jason Lowenstein and stand next to one of the only three men I'd ever marry (Lou, Paul Westerberg and Ben Lee). I'm a lot jealous. second, I know this was a while ago, but I just caught up with the digests. The song "Canary" perfectly summed up my life when I got EIG. It was eerie. third, I'm willing to tape things for people. I have the Girlysounds tapes, Phairities, Fuck and Run, and the Shelved Demos. E-mail me if you are interested and we'll work something out. - -Tiff "If I ever pay you back, if my money and wallet's in tact, I'll probably be in a box lying down, loosely suited in black..." -Liz Phair "Little girl keeps growing up, playing makeup, wearing guitar..." -Paul Westerberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:59:57 -0600 From: "keelyfish" Subject: mazzy star AAAHHHH!!!! 5 String Serenade is my favourite song on "So tonight....." That is so weird how you just learned to play it and I just learned to play it! It took me forever to get the arpeggio right : ) That is such an amazing song : ) Yay for Mazzy fans!! keely ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:03:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Darrin J. Schroeder" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #19 Hey all! In response to... > Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:18:36 EST > From: AngelLieb@aol.com > Subject: Not only LizPhans...but also X Philes > > Um.....Twizzlers...I think I'm started to become immune to this > stuff cuz it's obviously not satisfying my sugar cravings. So...what's > next on my list? Hmmmm.. Subway cookies? hmmm...nah... > any suggestions? Sour patch kids? WAH WAH! I need my sugar rush! ***If you can find 'em, Pixie Stix are a good substitute. Now, before you scoff at these confections from our childhood, try them a new way---up the nose. You read right, ala cocaine and solvents (although, as with everyone else here, I don't condone use and/or abuse of illegal substances). Just be careful; don't want to get a straw stuck in a nostril. Another thing that always makes my teeth hurt and gives me a sugar high is deep dish pecan pie! Mmmmm, brown sugar, granulated sugar, corn syrup, mmmmmm... don't you just want some right now? How about with a big 'ol scoop of French vanilla ice cream on the side, drenched with rich hot fudge sauce and fresh raspberries.... > > GRRRRRRRR! So.....I see that Nicole and I are the ones that have > a mess of fun on this list. ();) Which reminds me that there's plenty of > bananas on the kitchen counter. Hmmmmm.... Anyways. ***I don't know about anyone else, but I read WAY TOO MUCH into this!! But I'm sure you didn't mean it THAT way.... or did you? BTW KaTiE, I checked out your tattoo (on your web page); nice, but is your skin always so pale ;)? You might wanna get that checked out. I remain... Darrin ++++++++++ "I did all my acid in grade 8." -Bruce McCulloch ++++++++++ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:10:56 -0500 From: Kaufmann@IPFW.EDU (Kaufmann,Mike) Subject: NLP--defending jase's honor Some recent post had a knock on Jase's recommendation of the Loud Family. I'm not sure if the cd referred to was "the tape for linda," but if it was I have to defend Jase's honor, um taste, and say I think the Louds rock--and so does Jase. Hasn't steered me wrong yet in any cd recommended. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:05:34 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Liz Phest Yuk! School starts tomorrow. Oh well, last semester anyways. For those saying how we can hang out a hotel bar for Liz Phest, I think your forgetting one thing. Alot of the people that may be coming are under 21. Don't forget this. I'm over 22, but I'm not really a drinker. I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as hell don't want to hang out in a hotel bar all night. Hmmmmm... We'll figure something out. Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:07:57 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Liz in Guitar World I reading through my latest issue of Guitar World (with Kurt Cobain on the cover) and Liz is mentioned twice. The first is a letter from a reader that complains and poses the question "Do you really think Liz Phair is a better guitar player that Juliana Hatfield?" My response in a word: YES! The second article she is mentioned in is called "The Decade Of Living Dangerously", which is about the rise and fall of rock in the 90's. She is only mentioned briefly and is catagorized with Nirvana and Afghan Whigs as artists who think or thought that success = death. It really wasn't saying anything positive about our beloved Ms. Phair, but I thought everyone might want to know about it anyways. Well, time to go practice my guitar for Liz Phest. Craig "The KingAdRock" "The KingAdRock, that is my name!" - Adam Horovitz _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:40:56 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Let's get going on Liz Phest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on people! Let's get this whole Liz Phest planning thing rolling. This is no longer talk for me. It's a mission! I hope I'm not scaring anyone. He He! But I am going to go on the net ASAP and check out a few Chicago locations that we could possibly have Liz Phest at. I don't care if I have to coordinate this thing myself. It will happen I tell ya! Some people are losing faith. We really should start to take things seriously. It may be 6 months away, but that time will go really fast and will be upon us before you know it. Well, that's my big rant for the day. I think I need to relax. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:54:02 -0500 From: King of All Subject: Re: Let's get going on Liz Phest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! >Come on people! Let's get this whole Liz Phest planning thing rolling. I second that motion. Let's get the show on the road. There have been some good first steps, but like Craig said, time's going to fly by. I'm really looking forward to this. Let's get movin'! KOA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:14:29 PST From: "miss erin" Subject: [none] rob, 3)belle and sebastian - the boy with the arab strap Does anyone else like this group? this album is awash with emotion that seeps around the folk/rock arrangements i like belle and sebastian.: ) my bestest friend keely sent me a blank tape with some of their stuff on it...they're really good. and i have to agree with the jewel thing, did you ever stop and count how many times she uses the words 'fragile flame'? i thought it was a neat term at first, but she overused it to the point where it becomes devoid of meaning...but like rob, that's just my opinion... ~erin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:29:24 -0800 From: Alice Springs Subject: Mazzy Star, Hole, Rocket Boy Craig -- Yes yes yes, I am a Mazzy Star fan. Ahh... Her songs are so beautiful. I love "I've Been Let Down" so much. That is my fave of hers. The music is so relaxing! And while I'm off-topic, does anyone out there like Hole? I bought Celebrity Skin when it first came out and liked it. But lately, I've been enjoying it. I decided that I like it a whole lot better than Live Through This. Does anyone else agree? I think that it has a completely different feel to it -- it sounds so cheery! I usually skip the first track, but I listen to it straight through every time! Ugh, I'm so addicted to it lately. Especially "Heaven Tonight." That's my favorite. Are they touring anytime soon [in CA]?? I really want to go to a concert of theirs. And now for something about Liz... (I feel obligated now, since I've written so much about other artists!) First off, I would like to say that when I first heard Rocket Boy I did not like it. Since then it has grown on me a bit, but even still, I rarely listen to it. Well, you know how on the Shelved Demos tape, RB is purely instrumental? I was listening to it in the car last night on the way home from work, and when it came on, I started singing along with it. I didn't know some of the words so I had to mumble some parts, but it was so fun to sing out loud to it. I want to record myself singing along some time to hear myself -- HaHa! I discovered it was such fun to sing RB that I rewound it and listened/sang to it again! :-) Don't you just have such a great time singing totally loudly to songs like that? I got a kick out of that. (Phew, that was a long story.) Anyway, I think that's all I have to say at the moment. By the way, thanks to all the peeps who sent me info about Sunday's episode of X-Files. Take care all, *Melody* "I wish you all the joy that you can wish." +++++William Shakespeare+++++ "Music is the perfect type of art. Music can never reveal its ultimate secret." +++++++Oscar Wilde+++++++ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:45:03 -0500 (EST) From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: an actual real post. Anyone who has heard the studio version of "Oh My God," tell me, is the male voice really just Liz's voice deepened using not-so-modern technology? I think it kinda sounds like it could be. I wonder hmm... if i could possibly record it on here as a .wav and then bring it up a couple of whatevers. Hmm. COOLNESS! I'm about 90% certain that this is what I suspected! It's Liz! I couldn't just bring the pitch up, I had to speed the recording up, but it really does sound like it's Liz's voice. Wow. I feel like such a supersleuth. Of course, everyone else probably already knew this or something, and I'm just a doofus. But if nobody did, go me! See... I just felt that the male voice in this song sounded so... strange, and it kind of sounded like Liz's voice warped, and hey! Right on! Anyway, Hi support-system, and expect a not-so-grand Nicole for the next few months, cuz i'm back at school and it sucks and I'm not feeling too great about anything in general. Bleh. Yeah. Hey... this alvin and the chipmunks version of Oh My God is kinda... groovin. Okay not really. bye, Nicole this is the world as you made it to be ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:19:00 -0500 From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: sigh Well, I found out that people had already discussed that whole thing about Oh My God before, so now I don't feel so... how shall I say... Lewis and Clarkish? But I just wanted to say that... lately... i've been listening to alot of Liz's raw cuts of songs, where I can hear the vocals really well, and I mean... maybe I haven't ever LISTENED enough before (cuz once I did that, the noise just went away... uhhh...), but Liz is a GENIUS with harmony. GENIUS! GENIUS!!!! PURE GENIUS! Fucking amazing! Stellar! Outstanding! Amazing! Stupendous! umm... But by no means spaceeggy. Whatever it means. Somebody stop me. (Said with annoying Jim Carrey voice). I'm really hyper right now and I can't figure out why. Maybe it was that... SPEED? Just kidding... really! And Liz has just the most amazing voice. I mean, people think she doesn't. but it's just not true. Her voice is different than, say, celine or alan-ass (yes, i coined the term), but different doesn't equal bad. Certainly not when you're comparing her to those pop artists that suck anyway? But say you're comparing her to... like... an opera singer. Well her voice is different but it's SO FUCKING BEAUTIFUL. Just wanted to reiterate all this good stuff. yes i'm broadcasting myself! - -Nicole "man if you've got a one in a million girl don't let her get away... cuz the next one in a million girl is a million miles away..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: one last thing A bit of website etiquette: If someone gives you an idea for a title to your webpage, and you use it, credit them somewhere on your site. ALSO!!! If your site is about Liz Phair, and the person who suggested the new name to you has a site about Liz Phair, by all means at least LINK to their page??? This is... common courtesy. Even if you are offended cuz this person... suggested you change the name of your website cuz it was exactly the same as your name? (No, not you Robert... anyway this is a... hypothetical situation?) going, Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:11:43 -0800 From: Alice Springs Subject: California Phest Okay, for all those Californians who want a piece of the action . . . Leslie and I are now planning our mini-Phest (since there is *no way* we can go to Chicago). If anyone would like to put in their two cents before we decide the official plan, email me privately. Thanks! I hope to hear from you soon! Take care, *Melody* "I wish you all the joy that you can wish." +++++William Shakespeare+++++ "Music is the perfect type of art. Music can never reveal its ultimate secret." +++++++Oscar Wilde+++++++ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #20 ***********************************