From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V2 #15 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, January 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 015 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V2 #12 [myphairlady@juno.com (Dew Drop Inn)] lizphest+icq+mp3's+Canada ["Bryan Moore" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] A must! ["Chipko Arnold" ] Lilith Fair Live LPs [Jason Long ] of lesbian love and other thoughts for which i will speak for myself... [] Cat in heat: there's a joke here somewhere... ["Darrin J. Schroeder" ] sig file curiousity [jdirksen@tmp.com (ST LOUIS)] Re: support-system-digest V2 #14 [AngelLieb@aol.com] For your annoyment ["Nicole W." ] Trading!!! ["Stacey Wirt" ] Response to Mp3 concerns ["Schotz, Gary" ] Jewel [Suzanne Walsh ] and now for something completely different ["Cynthia Nagle" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:58:48 -0800 From: myphairlady@juno.com (Dew Drop Inn) Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #12 Regarding Alicia's comments about Divorce Song: I,too, find the lyrics incredibly real. Even though I am not divorced --or even married, for that matter-- I feel like I can totally relate to what she is singing. I mean, not to say that the song is strictly about a divorce. It can apply to so many different situations. I think the saddest part is: "And the license said you had to stick around until I was dead, But if you're tired of looking at my face I guess I already am." Ooohh!!! That part gets me everytime I hear it. It reminds me of, from Fleetwood Mac's Landslide: "I've been afraid of changing cause I built my life around you." How sad is that?! But words that all of us can feel. I get chills just thinking that I could live those words someday. How depressing, but how true!! Anyway, I know I went off on this, but that song just really gets to me. Every time I listen to it, I hear the lyrics as if I'm listening to the song for the first time: I never tire of it, and it never ceases to amaze me. Does anyone else find this song totally awesome?? Have a great day! *Marie* ~~~~~~~~ "I never talk during music, at least during good music. If one hears bad music it is one's duty to drown it in conversation." **Oscar Wilde** ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:57:12 -0500 From: "Bryan Moore" Subject: lizphest+icq+mp3's+Canada From: Bryan Moore To: Liz Phair List Subject: LizPhest + ICQ Date: January 13, 1999 12:42 PM Hey, people, this is the list's newest liz phanatic!!! I'm a little green to all things liz so bear w/me (but getting better every day). Bryan's the name, Liz is the game.Energy is movin off from all sides (and it feels good). Any Canadian Liz phans out there????? I am from Toronto (go leafs go), but now live in North Bay, where I am in university. Any Canuck liz phans should make there prescence known!! None (few) of my friends are Liz fans (I am rapidly workin' on them) so I must communicate w/others. ICQ ( I Seek You) All Liz phans should post there ICQ #'s on the site and we could communicate easier and more frequently. Dont get me wrong, I love this list so far, but Icq would provide a direct link to eachother. Anyone who wants info on ICQ can contact me or go to the site (icq.com), or you can get it at tucows.com or download.com as well. My Icq # is 20020500 (yes, this is the best icq # ever generated, I got lucky for once) Sorry bout the Html, I'm pretty sure that was me. Anyways, to Aaron, You could be right, billboard might have changed their charting system. But the bottom line is this, if a song is not released comercially, then chances are you wont here it. For some reason, Matador and/or Atlantic (i think??) are not doing a very good job of supporting WCSE which I feel has tons of good songs which one could consider 'singles'. What Makes You Happy is a way better tune then pretty much everything else out there right now and it bugs me that we arent going to hear it. I imagine that What Makes.... will be the next single, probably targeted for spring or early summer. (Just a prediction, I am a new Liz Phan but Polyester was the first single right???) Has anyone out there heard of the TRAGICALLY HIP???? Well, let me fill ya all in!! They are the best band in the world and you should all try and check there stuff out!! The Hip (as they are reffered to) are from Kingston, Ontario, Canada (thegreatwhitenorth) any LiZ Phans would definately appreciate their wonderful music (guaranteed). I got Mp3's of some of their stuff and willing to trade for any Liz Mp3's. (shows and stuff) On that note, Mp3's arent that bad (to the person who was dissin' them). In some cases, they help. Example ---friend had some Mp3's by a band called Phish (excellent band, by the way), and I downloaded a bunch of 'em. Anyways, now I am a pretty die-hard Phish fan and I will support them through going to their concerts and buying t-shirts, stickers, whatever. There are greater evils in this world. The point is ---exposure. Gotta have it. On that note, we should try to get all the Liz bootlegs out there on Mp3. This would allow for really, (really) simple trading. It would also allow for everybody to hear all the great liz shows and girlysounds and what not (stuff that you cant buy in a record store) . I know of a server that Liz stuff could be uploaded --- (it is an FTP server). Anyone who needs Info on this, give me an email and I can fill ya in on the wonderful world of FTP and Mp3's and such. Peace, Your psychosomatic brother, Bryan sorry about the long post -so much to say, so little time ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:09:09 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dorion Subject: seriously... So I have this (stuffed) pet monkey named Chee-Chee. I've acquired this strange habit. Every time the riff in "Mesmerizing" comes on, I NEED to take his little elastic loop and make Chee-Chee bounce up and down. He looks like he's having so much fun!!! - -Jeff D. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Sometimes a dream is what makes you a slave. -Liz Phair ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:08:01 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Kelly Warner Subject: kill the dj! Hey, everyone. This is my first post, and I'm afraid it will get me started on the wrong foot...but I hope you will be forgiving. First of all, I want to say that, like the rest of you, I am quite fond of Liz Phair. She is doubtless my favorite artist out there right now. But, I have to say that I am glad she's not getting hours and hours of airplay on all those shitty KPOP pseudo-"alternative" stations that circuit the same 5 boring songs all day long. There are too many great artists that get roasted by too much airplay. I'm just glad that Liz is not a victim of radio overkill. I suppose I'm selfish. I like to keep the good stuff for myself, and let the rest paw away at the stale leftovers. But, on the other hand, Liz is too great an artist to get consistently snubbed at the Grammys, etc. But what can ya do. Something tells me she's not overly concerned about winning a Grammy (although I'm sure she thinks it would be a nice bonus!) Well, I'm stepping down from my soapbox. Thank you very much, and tune in next time. ~Kell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:02:10 PST From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: A must! "From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: smell of sweet... something something I don't know the words I was trying to sing 7 Chinese Bros. I know Voice of Harold, but i don't know 7 Chinese Bros." Isn't it "smell of sweet short haired boy, woman offers, pull up a chair (seat)" ? Yeah, i knew voice of harold before 7cb as it was a b side that was out before reckoning. I always thought it came before until i heard stipe sing the catalogue number "LST 390". I guess it was the first version as he recorded it while trying to get the lyrics/vocals to 7cb right.. "that's rhonda, an artist" "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:20:39 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Lilith Fair Live LPs Hey everyone, The following is an excerpt of an article I found earlier on the Addicted to Noise site . Please keep your eyes open for further news about these albums, as it is quite possible that Liz will be featured on one of them. If she is, it could prove to be good exposure for Liz, since a lot of people who will buy these compilations may not have been to any of the Lilith shows, or could have possibly attended ones that Liz didn't play at. '98 Lilith Fair To Spawn Three Live LPs Contributing Editor Teri vanHorn reports: Producers of Sarah McLachlan's woman-centric Lilith Fair are readying the release of three live albums drawn from the popular summer tour's 1998 outing, the singer's manager and Lilith Fair co-founder said Thursday (Jan. 14). While McLachlan is in the studio mixing her own full-length live album with Grammy-winning engineer Tom Lord-Alge, officials at McLachlan's Canadian label, Nettwerk, are compiling three separate releases chronicling the tour's highly successful, second annual venture. "The first and second volumes will be very similar to the double-live album that came out last year, but rather than releasing a double album we're releasing them as single albums," said Lilith Fair co-founder Terry McBride, co-producer of the albums and its two-disc predecessor. "The third volume is probably going to be composed of jams and collaborations -- those special moments that you won't get anywhere else -- that happened live." The albums follow last year's release of the double-disc Lilith Fair: A Celebration of Women in Music, which featured 25 songs recorded live during the tour's inaugural 1997 outing, including clips by McLachlan, folkie rocker Victoria Williams, and pop songstress Jewel. The three separate releases likely will be called Lilith Fair 1999: Vol. 1, 2, and 3. The first two Lilith Fair live compilations will be released in mid-May, at the same time tickets for this summer's North American tour dates go on sale. The third will hit stores approximately the first week in July, McBride said. Not all Lilith Fair's 1998 performers will appear on the albums, McBride said, adding that it's too early to discuss the track listing. McLachlan fans seemed enthusiastic about the albums. "I can't wait to get them all, especially the one with the jams," wrote Gina Grace, 23, in an e-mail. "I wish they could have something from everyone though, because it really was a phenomenal tour, but I guess that's not really possible." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 03:08:30 -0800 From: MrE Subject: of lesbian love and other thoughts for which i will speak for myself... >>Also, is it true that Casey Casim does the >>voice of Shaggy??? And, finally, does anyone >>else think that Velma was a lesbian? I mean, >>the only attractive person on the cartoon was >>Daphne, so it would only be sensible. >>Lana ok...for starters-shaggy is dead. seems he and scooby were a bit more involved than had been supposed. he was found connected to a 'self inducing carbon monoxide inhalator' in a motel room with dr. jack kervorkian. scooby is in the midst of a sex change and is now happily involved with daphne and stempy. happy happy joy joy. and please allow me to be the first to not comment on the elitist alleged lesbian looks lie...velma went on to open a chain of successful chain of proctology clinics and has just recently been released to a half way house, having served time for pandering, tax evasion... >>not to start a thread or anything, >>but i am just actually really >>annoyed by this new trend... >>i'll call it the "thank u india" trend. >>steve ...and i'll call it redundant. >>We're all better on paper. >>jorge ...and some of us are better speaking for ourselves. the paper tiger MrE - -- - ----------come on over and do the twist - -----------------------over do it and have a fit - -love you so much ya make me sick := Subject: Cat in heat: there's a joke here somewhere... >From: LULU428@aol.com >Subject: my ramblings > >oh, and i just acquried a homeless teenage female cat in heat (yeah, >lucky me!) who is the most precious thing in the entire world. charcoal >gray, long hair, green/yellow eyes, just to die for, and she is >standing on me right now, nuzzling my face. ooh, I am in love, >finally. >Lani Wow, that must be one powerful heat! Or are you just one of those crazy Springer college guests "experimenting"? ;) I remain... Darrin ++++++ "I'm not a slut; I'm just popular." ++++++ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:47:46 -0800 (PST) From: Amy Sorlie Subject: Re: Jewel vs. Liz Hey guys, I just have to comment on Jewel's song "My Own Private God's Gift To Women" because it is honestly one of my favorites. JULIA-GOOLIA, you are right in saying that people flip out when they hear it because it is not "typical" Jewel, but that's what's so cool about it. For anyone who hasn't heard it or some of her other unreleased stuff (she has a lot of songs that are much better than her album songs) I would be happy to make you a tape. That song in particular is so funny to me because it is kind of a joke, and if any of you have ever been lucky enough to hear her tell the story behind that song, you'll know what I mean. "Hope he hears it one day....Motherfucker!" She is such a great storyteller, she has a real way of putting you in the situation with her, especially in this instance. Oh well, hope maybe you guys will enjoy it someday! LANI--hope you are reading this, if so please email me, I gotta ask you something and I lost your address! Later Phairies. **Amy** "And I love myyyyyyyy life...." ---Liz Phair _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 17:14:11 GMT From: jdirksen@tmp.com (ST LOUIS) Subject: sig file curiousity hey kids - i've been noticing a lot of support system-ers include sig files with their posts. i can understand using them for contact information, but most of the sig's are liz's lyrics or cool sayings like "i'm not a slut, i'm just popular" or crazy shit like mr. e's something about a stick + shooting shit. out of my own curiosity (which i'm sure will come back + bite me in the ass, although not in that "college experimenting" way), how about a thread explaining what relevance these sig files have to do with your posting? just curious. or maybe not. mourning from the loss of mj, jd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:33:25 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V2 #14 Leslie wrote: "Perhaps Katie can change this - mass-marketed wcse cookies and beanie Spaceeggs, anyone?" Teehee! ();) Jorge wrote: "Highlights included Liz on the piano in NYC singing Canary and Chopsticks. I wish she'd write more piano-based songs because hers are beautiful." Oh garsh! I love this video! I was surprised to see that she was playing Chopsticks with one hand and now I know why you hear the audience cheering during that song on the tape. Jorge also wrote: "Nicole wrote something several days about not being as good in person." I totally agree! When I met Craig...it took us a while to start a conversation, even though it's so easy to "talk" on paper. Anyways, I guess it was me that was blabbering away most of the time. Sooo.. Well, I gave a friend a copy of WCSE today for her b-day and I was quite shocked to hear that she knew who Liz was and I've known her for five years! My lordy! She couldn't recall of where she heard of her though and I started singing Supernova. Little did I know, she was singing along with me. Wow! That really made my day! Then we ended up on talking about Liz during lunch. Now I have someone I can talk to in my area! ():D Anyhoo...I found copies of Music Choice at the bookstore yesterday with Liz on the cover and bought a few. But then...I couldn't bear knowing that there were a few left at the store and I just HAD to go back and buy the rest cuz I'm such a pig and so possessive with having some weirdo guy have a magazine bearing our beautiful queen on the cover. It's a really great interview too! So, if anyone wants a copy, email me your address. First come, first serve cuz I only have six extra copies! Arrrrrghit! Me am eagerly awaiting for my WCSE mobile some store reserved for me. Hello?! The cd's been out long enough?! Oooooooooh MrE......when are you going to announce your Liz page? ():) *sweet smile* Yippy! Sheryl Crow is coming to Orlando! KaTiE ():D "When you are an adult and out there and working, there isn't a bad guy to point your finger at," L. Phair ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:06:35 -0500 From: "Nicole W." Subject: For your annoyment Well, i have nothing to say, but I'm posting anyway. isn't that annoying? I think it is. I was stoned last night and almost posted. wouldn't that have been interesting? Me, stoned? Kids, I in no way condone illegal substances. Hell, I don't even really like being stoned, it's just that the longer i go without doing it, the more I forget that I don't like it. I think I'll just not smoke up again. I said that last time too. I know we've mentioned convulsive girl enough, but I am really concerned about the power she has... I really truly could have SWORN that I posted about her once to the list, but I've checked my sent mail archives and I never did it. Is it possible that she like, hypnotized me with her out of sync convulsions? Made me imagine I was posting about her to the list without really doing it, to protect her pride? Maybe the reason other people have been able to post about her is because she... like... her trance doesn't work if you watch a videotape, or if it isn't the weekend of Jan. 2/3. yeah. Well that was my... pseudo-liz content. Oh... here's some more useless shit... I have this really old portable cd player (it was manufactured in 92... that's "really old" in technology years), and besides having absolutely no shock absorbancy and skipping like three songs when lightly tapped, it does not read past track 20 on cds. It took me three days to realize this. I was trying to listen to the cd ken made me, which is 25 tracks i think? Wait! It played up to #21!!! But then the next time it wouldn't. Hmm. Odd. I think it was another of that convulsive chick's conspiracy's. Maybe she's an alien. This is a job for Fox Mulder and Dana Scully. Definite X-File. I should write the script out for the producers and see if i could get it made. Good idea. I'm all about good ideas lately. I can't tell you my other one cuz it's an invention adn youll steal it. So I'm back from U. of M. I think I'll probably transfer. I'm not positive. Then if i do transfer, there's some minor stipulations that could turn ugly. Like housing. I can probably live in a coop with this *sort of* friend from home,b ut I don't know how much of her i can take, and likewise her to me. That last fragment made no sense. Then again, MRE, does this make sense?: "nicole...are you missing any parts that might be trippin' the light fantastic inside my head?" Could you please, and here is where i become the really cheesy liz fan, "explain it to me"? Hmm... For having nothing to say, I sure do say a hell of alot. Think about that phrase "hell of" something. What part of speech is that, and what kind of sense does THAT make? You can have a ton of something, a pound, etc., but what's the measurement of a hell? And why can you have a hell of alot? You can have alot of something, so why are you then modifying alot with another whatever it is? AAAAAAAAAAUGH! - -this is nicole, signing off. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:24:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Stacey Wirt" Subject: Trading!!! Hi!! So is it just me or are there more newcomers on the list? Maybe it was just in the last post that there were a bunch of new people.... I'm so happy more people are discovering liz! :-) By the way, Jason - what's the official count of members now? Last I read it was like 700 or something. Now for the trading..... I'm looking for Fuck and Run. I can trade you Glory (from NYC 4/25/95) for it. Please please please!! I tried to order it from a used cd store online two months ago and I've been waiting this hole time! Finally I email them and they told me it was never available in the first place (even after they listed it as for sale and sent me a receipt for it)!!! they didn't charge me anything in the end, but still....I'm never doing THAT again! Thanks! - -Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:52:18 -0500 From: "Schotz, Gary" Subject: Response to Mp3 concerns From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: MP3s Concerning the post from Dermich@aol.com about Mp3's ruining the music business, the quote you used from the seventies about home taping "killing the music industry" is just as false substituting Mp3 for home taping now is it turned about to be then with home taping. The "Mp3 is ruining the music business" is just as asinine as the quote about home taping ruining the music business was twenty years ago. The bottom line is music company executives are used to such a fat cash cow to suckle on they get freaked out at technology, progress and the possiblility that they may have less of an opportunity to rape artists of money due them. As usual, they'd rather complain and attempt to regulate technology instead of embracing it as a means to further promote their artists. Mp3 technology can hurt record companies, but not necessarily artists. WHat if Liz decided to quit her label and distribute her music via Mp3 technology on a web site. You the fan could order it up, enjoy her music as you normally do, only now she retains the majority of the retail profit. You're not buying her CD's to support Tower Records, Best Buy or cdnow.com are you?? You're certainly not buying them so Capitol, EMI, Matador or any of the others can continue to get rich exploiting art. You're buying them to support the artists i hopes he/she will continue to produce what you enjoy so dearly. Mp3 is here to stay and in the end it is not the artists who will suffer, it will be the record company execs who refuse to evolve their marketing and distribution of their products. Sorry this is so long and not about Liz. Also, Phair Phest hopefuls: The July 9, 10, 11 weekend is alos the weekend of the Cubs / Sox crosstown interleague baseball games at Comiskey. Baseball fans are in luck! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:58:56 -0800 (PST) From: Suzanne Walsh Subject: Jewel OK, some people have been asking about Jewel so I had to put my little opinion in: I'm not really a fan but I don't dislike or really like her music but there is this one song of hers that my cousin put on a tape for me. I don't think it's on any album, cuz the sound is kinda poor quality, but then again, I wouldn't know. It's called Racecar Driver. She sings it in this really huskyish/macho man voice and just talks(sings?) about this guy trying to pick her up. It's great! I had it as my answering machine message for like 2 months after I broke up with my boyfriend, it's perfect for that! "C'mon baby let's get in the car I'm gonna take you real real far Cuz I'm gonna be.... Your racecar driver your racecar driver" Suzanne http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Hall/9429 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:48:01 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: and now for something completely different Hey all! Thanks to everybody who's responded to my "let's semi-organize this Liz Phest" request. Between all of us, I know we can figure out logistics, loosely plan some activities, and then wait for everyone to show up. Which of course you will! You have 6 months to plan! Schedule your vacations! Put in your request for time off! Ask for plane/bus tickets for your birthdays! How can you resist the Phest of Liz? For those who can't stomach the thought of camping out (I'm not talking Woodstock here - real campgrounds DO have showers), I anticipate that we'll be scouting out cheap hotels, maybe trying to negotiate lower rates, and giving the phone numbers & info to the list (you'll have to make your own reservations, though - I ain't your mother). MrE, c'mon guy, you can come to Chicago. I'll book you a penthouse suite and a chauffeur just for you... then we can all crash in there and sing "Happy Early Birthday" to you. And drink everything in your mini-bar! (I love raiding the mini-bar/snack bar when I'm on a business trip - it feels so naughty! Like Demi Moore rolling around in "shitloads of money" in Indecent Proposal. A shitty movie, but I digress...) Perma Frost, eh, MrE? That puts hair on your chest! It's not bad, actually (the drink, I mean, not the hair - I wouldn't know about that! And I didn't mean it put hair on MY chest.) Chipko Arnold - I've been meaning to tell you this, I LOVED your futuristic play-by-play of the Liz Phest! World War III has got nothing on your scenario... Can't you find some reason to come over to the colonies in July? Michael Connolly - ouch! Sorry to hear the Wyf's reaction. Can't fake a business trip? A funeral? You won Publishers' Clearinghouse, but they changed the rules and now require winners to come to Chicago to pick up their money? (To avoid divorce upon return, just explain they had the wrong spelling and gender - they really wanted "Michelle Connelly.") Truthfully, I haven't told my boyfriend about Liz Phest yet. We usually go on vacation around that time...! Julia Rios - the Liz Phest dates of July 9, 10, 11 are because someone had suggested them (it's between US & foreign holidays, good weather, etc.) And because if we don't just choose some dates now, so that people will start planning for it, it'll never happen. And finally: ATTENTION BRAD WOOD, JANET RAINS, MATADOR PEOPLE, OR LIZ YOURSELF - we really, really, really would like Liz to make a special guest appearance for her adoring fans at Liz Phest! Please? Cindy "Well look at me, I'm frightening my friends." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:02:49 EST From: JLD4125269@aol.com Subject: Sessions Hello, Is there any kind soul out there who taped Sessions who would be willing to make me a copy? I would gladly pay postage and send a tape or set up some kind of trade, etc. I missed it because I was stuck due to the snow, and the local station says that they aren't going to air it again and no I can't buy a copy. Please? It would be greatly appreciated. Also - for those of you who did get to see it -- was the drummer for Sessions a different drummer than the one she played with on tour? I didn't see Sessions (as you know), but the Real Audio clip showed a guy who didn't look like he was the same drummer I saw when she played live. Just wondering. What happened to him? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:51:20 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Response to Mp3 concerns At 05:52 PM 1/14/1999 -0500, Gary Schotz wrote: >As usual, they'd rather complain and attempt to regulate technology instead >of embracing it as a means to further promote their artists. Mp3 technology >can hurt record companies, but not necessarily artists. WHat if Liz decided >to quit her label and distribute her music via Mp3 technology on a web site. >You the fan could order it up, enjoy her music as you normally do, only now >she retains the majority of the retail profit. You're not buying her CD's >to support Tower Records, Best Buy or cdnow.com are you?? You're certainly >not buying them so Capitol, EMI, Matador or any of the others can continue >to get rich exploiting art. You're buying them to support the artists i >hopes he/she will continue to produce what you enjoy so dearly. Not necessarily. The way I see it, it would be very easy for just one person to order the music and download it, only to redistribute it widely in that same MP3 form, which would in fact screw Liz out of any money she might see. Do you know how many MP3 channels there are on IRC alone, where people transfer files to one another? Or the thousands of FTP sites? Hell, half the IRC channels I hang out on aren't even MP3 related in the least and people are still swapping them. It is, in fact, a very good way for artists to get fucked over. As for what you said about record labels, sure they make shitloads of money. But also, you have to remember, they take a chance on signing an artist who will make them that money. They -- in some cases better than others -- then spend much money promoting the artist and trying to ensure their music will get hard. Sure, they're doing it for their own interests, but they do work hard and it does help the artists, so the way I see it, they are entitled to whatever profits they make. For every successful act that rakes in a lot of cash for them, they probably have three or four they don't see any money off of. Hell, I'm willing to bet that Warners didn't see any money off of Jen Trynin. Or Geffen off of Aimee Mann. For that matter, most of the artists I listen to probably aren't cash cows for their record companies. Sure, Liz has done fairly well, and her first two albums both did go gold, but they did so over a period of years. It's not like Matador and their major label partners saw any money right away. They had to wait for their initial investment to pay off. Anyway, I have no problem with hard to find, live or out-of-print material being distributed via MP3, as you're not really stealing from the artist directly. They wouldn't see any money from distribution of this material anyway, and I'd rather see it distributed for free if the fans really want it than for them to have to profit bootleggers by purchasing it. That said, I don't think an artist's commercially available recordings should be distributed in this format. The artists do lose out. Fuck, I know of someone who downloaded the entire new Hole album so they wouldn't have to buy the actual CD (and don't worry, this occasionally brainless "friend" of mine got a lecture from me that makes this little rant seem like nothing). So, let's see. People start downloading the tracks they like or entire albums so they don't have to purchase the actual product. The artists see no royalties from this, the record labels make no money off the artists, the artists get dropped. If they get dropped, that means no tour support and no other promotion of their music. They aren't able to make a living as a result. *Great* thinking. Any true music fan (which I consider myself to be a very passionate one, as people have probably gathered from my other rants in the past) should be appalled. Even more so than how some labels exploit their artists. At least in those cases, the artists do make a living. And besides, artists know exactly what they're getting into when they sign to a label, or if not, they should. They make the choice, so don't bitch about how bad the labels are. If these artists really had a problem with it, they could always go the Ani DiFranco route and start their own record companies, but they choose to let someone do the work for them instead of doing it themselves. Anyway, all that aside, you have suggested that the technology be regulated, but I don't know. By the time the industry is able to do that, a lot of artists would lose out big time. And that's what pisses me off. And even if it were somehow regulated, I still honestly believe people will find ways of redistributing the music illegally (which is what most of my earlier thoughts supposes). It's way too easy, all it takes is an internet connection. It's a lot more dangerous than even the commercial bootleggers, in my opinion, as it's more widespread. Corporate whore, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:03:47 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: David Weich Subject: lucinda williams leslie -- lucinda williams is great! her stuff might sounds a little different at first (good, but different; familiar, but somehow unique), then it gets better with every listen. her older stuff is growing on me a little slower, as it's more country-ish than the new one, but I'm pretty much addicted to Car Wheels at this point. it's such a great album, the kind that's best when heard all the way through. and I've already got my tickets for her show here in portland. can't wait! dave ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V2 #15 ***********************************