From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #124 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, December 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 124 Today's Subjects: ----------------- re: support-system-digest V1 #123 ["Nicole W." ] Liz and Alanis ["Al" ] Up in Arms [c684506@showme.missouri.edu] ... [MrE ] "It's a bad business to be in..." [Jason Long ] An offer I turned down [AngelLieb@aol.com] Tops of 1998 and Liz's opening act status [Zack Jemison ] Liz should take stage presence lessons from..... [Craig King ] what's the problem? [mysticalcrowe@webtv.net (steven thomson)] JJ for J, and I love debate ["Cynthia Nagle" ] alanis [saylerja ] P.S. ["Cynthia Nagle" ] Nitrous Oxide ["Nicole W." ] Alanis thing... ["Amy Blue" ] yet more on liz and alanis [Isha Leigh ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:30:17 -0500 From: "Nicole W." Subject: re: support-system-digest V1 #123 First of all... damn this digest came out EARLY! Second of all, there are plenty of bands Liz is suitable to open up for. Smashing Pumpkins, r.e.m. if they toured, Pearl Jam, the Rolling Stones (!), I could go on, but I only have one hand to type with cuz the other one is holding the ice pack on my face cuz I just had me wisdom teeth pulled. I'm with Steve K. I didnt' buy 10 albums this year, but most of what I DID buy was old stuff... meaning... I bought Hot Rocks (the first one) by the Stones, I got as a gift (well I asked for it, of course) the 30th anniversary edition of the Beatles white album, I got a John Lennon best of sort of thing for my birthday, and everything else was... well I got wcse of course, and then both Pearl Jam albums that came out this year, because Pearl Jam is my all time favorite band. Yes it's true, Liz is second. Oh I also just received r.e.m.'s "Up." So... not a very eventful year in music for me,a lthough both my favorite artists came out with amazing albums. :) And I do love the white album. And the Lennon album. I havent' listened to hot rocks alot but I like it. Oh shit... I can feel the novacaine wearing off... oh shit. I hear tomorrow is going to be hell. But while I was under the influence of the OH SHIT... I HATE THIS. MENTAL BLOCK! I cant' remember the name of laughing gas. I mean the real name. Well whatever... while i was under the influence of htat, all I could think about was how fun it was to be high and how cool it was to be legally stoned. Anyway. Later. - -Nicole (who still doesn't think "spaceeggy" really means ANYTHING, it just sounds kind of... ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:38:11 EST From: NEXTKIN@aol.com Subject: Lil bit of Ramblings Hi everyone! This is my first post in a few months. I've been here, silently reading to myself! I have a few things to bring up: My Liz Dream: I had this dream a few weeks ago and finally have gotten the nerve to post it. My friend, Frank (also a Liz Phan), tells me he has someone he wants me to meet. He takes me to the elementary school that I went to, we go into a classroom and sit down to observe the teacher. She is teaching a lesson, I think it was history, a long drawn out lesson. A bit of time goes by and I notice that the teacher is Liz Phair!! It's Liz, but it's not Liz. She sorta looks like Liz but she's dirty. Unwashed hair, mess clothes, etc…but feel it's Liz. Class ends the students leave and my friend introduces me to her. She says hello, I tell her I admire her work. Then she snaps back at me "Well, I don't do that anymore" and she leaves. Someone please Explain to Me what this means!! Liz Tribute Tape: This was mentioned a few weeks ago but I haven't seen too much talk about it and I'd hate to see this die. A Liz tribute album (tape?) is being compiled by Derek (Dermich@aol.com). Basically what he's doing is collecting tapes of people covering Liz songs (he's not too concerned about sound quality); when he gets enough tapes submitted, they will go onto one tape to be distributed to people on the list. I know there are many musicians on the list, so if you're interested, drop Derek a line. Personally, I'd like to also see some spoken interpretation done too, but that's not my decision. This is a really cool idea, let's keep it going! TV Appearances: If anyone has any Liz TV appearances on tape that they'd like copy or trade, I'd love to get copies. I saw Leno & Letterman but I don't have them on tape and I missed Rosie O'D. If anyone wants to do a trade, please email me. Finally, happy holidays to everyone on the list. I can't tell you how many great people I've met on this list in the past year. Have a great holiday and happy new year!! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:03:23 PST From: "Persy Grrrl" Subject: living a liz song Hi everyone, I haven't posted in like, 3 months, but I'm still alive. Just been working alot. That's where things start getting weird. See, I work in a local chain restaurant and have somehow struck a romance with an older co-worker. "But don't worry, Mom, I met him in a restaurant, and all this time I've been getting to know him." I'm finally going to get rid of my long-time boyfriend who treated me like dirt "I swear this one is gonna last, and all those other bastards were only practice!" and start living "I see the sky above me like a full recovery" again. I know this is so for the better, and when I realized I was living a Liz Phair song, well I had to smile. Now I just have to ask my Mom her opinion. Persy p.s. Anyone else ever find themselves in a Liz song? It's kinda neat. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 10:30:13 -0000 From: "Al" Subject: Liz and Alanis From SS Digest VI #121 Icrywolf said: >Those of us who have been with Liz since the beginning should support her to >the end, after all, she's STILL Liz and STILL incredible, as was proven to us >starving phans by this year's album. Buck up, grouchies, and have a happy >new >year -- Liz is touring! Right On! and well said. What I've noticed about a lot of people who post here is how the seem to bash certain people's choice of music. For me, music is music and whatever you are into is fine with me. I have my tastes and others have theirs and sometimes those tastes crossover and sometimes they are way off, but who really gives a damn? Is the world going to end because Liz is playing with Alanis? I personally think that Liz is head-n-shoulders above Alanis in regards to being a songwriter, but if someone feels otherwise, who am I to say that they have bad taste? It's just his/her taste, not mine, but I respect it. I tend to be open-minded about music and just by the fact that I accepted to go to the Cheryl Crow concert with my friend says that, because I never gave a rat's ass about Crow, but they were free tickets and I went because I knew I'd have fun. Some of my friends who don't like her ragged on me for it, but at least I was open-minded and actually had a bitchen time and found her to be a real good performer. I hate anal attitudes. Anyway, I actually would like to see Alanis opening for Liz (just my opinion again) but you know what, it's kind of Liz's fault that she is not the headliner here, by not touring enough when she was showing up just about everywhere 4 year's ago and not giving her fans what they wanted. (We all know about the stage fright and her not being ready for all the attention) but its a cruel and tough business) Anyways, I guess that also goes to show me just how awesome she is, in that she can take off 4 years and come back to the loyal fan base that she has built up and create such a friggin HOT album! How many artists who are not mainstream can do that and get away with it? Even mainstreamers would have a hard time keeping that type of support. I say, good for Liz in doing this tour with Alanis. She is actually taking this musician thing serious and I can only imagine what lies ahead for her. Right On! AJ :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:01:16 -0600 (CST) From: c684506@showme.missouri.edu Subject: Up in Arms For those of you who are up in arms over Liz opening for Alanis, here's something that might give you some comfort. I used to be on the Veruca Salt mailing list, and we got really pissed off when we heard that VS was going to be opening up for Bush. So we just tried to think of it as VS was the headlining band, and Bush was the "closing act." So think of Alanis, in this scenario, as the "closing act." Liz is a lot prettier anyway. Eric C. Today's dumb music lyric: "Thinning ice 14 hairdryers Swimming to you" -Bush ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:18:53 -0800 From: MrE Subject: ... >I understand the concern about alanis. however, ive got a new >question for you all. who would you like to see liz open for? >suppose she couldnt headline and she had to be the opening act. >would anyone be suitable for you? seriously, i couldnt pick anyone >off the top of my head . name one person shes suitable to open >up for. i dare you. >katie ...checkmate >BULLSHIT. >Steve (Satan) ...check#@&#**@fnmate >perhaps Liz is a fan of Alanis? >liza kosciuch ...checkmate >And lay off of Alanis, why dontcha? >Scott ...checkmate ...and then there's this one: >wait until the 'top 8 at 8' tells them what's cool ...the furious five at nine > She lacks the ability to improvise on stage because her band >doesn't know any more of her songs than the ones they've >rehearsed for her never changing set list. ...sounds like a recent liz phair gig >synchronizing with the backup dancers ...? >who really grew as a result of touring with >a more mainstream act, I'd love to hear them (seriously). ...ronnie montrose: '71 opener for edgar winter >pack venues like the one in the Muppet Show??? ...missed that episode... >Mike Marlatt >it's getting really redundant.... >sgriffes ...checkmate and out to each his own to own his each MrE the dog of l.a. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- "REDRUM"__Danny Torrance - ------------------------------------------------------------------- "You wanna see something really scary?"__Danny Ackroyd - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:21:49 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: "It's a bad business to be in..." Admittedly, the prospect of Liz opening for Alanis has been on my mind quite a bit during the last few days and, in all honesty, I can't say I'm too thrilled with it. I know that I won't be able to articulate how I feel about this as well as some others have (Steve Kisko and Mike Marlatt are two that have done a good job of discussing the negative aspects of this). I know that not everyone will agree with some of what I have to say, but please at least hear me out. First of all, I do have to say that I love Liz as much now as I ever did. I also don't see that changing anytime soon. I do wish her the success she deserves and the best of luck in anything she decides to pursue. That said, even though I had planned on travelling to see Liz in Philadelphia earlier this month before the show was canceled, I will not be going to see Liz open for Alanis in that same city in February. It's not just that I have no desire to see Alanis (and, for the record, it doesn't matter if she puts on a good show or not if her music just isn't your cup of tea. Apparently Phish put on good shows too, but their music does nothing for me, so no, I'm not going to go see them either). I found that I just don't enjoy myself nearly as much at huge arena shows, so I stopped going to them a long time ago. If it were Liz headlining, I likely would give in and go anyway, but it's definitely not a good way to go see an opening act that most of the crowd will be unreceptive to. I know that a lot of people think that this will be an opportunity for Liz to win over those audiences, but I can tell you from my own concert-going experiences, people who are there to just see the headliner really don't give care about anything other than who they are there to see. I gave in and went to the Buffalo Lilith Fair date because I wanted so badly to see Liz, and I didn't want to wait until the fall tour, which at that time, I had no idea would even be coming anywhere close to me. Sitting there, in good seats, watching Liz play would have been the most incredible experience ... if it weren't for all those in the audience who had no clue who she was and proceeded to talk all through her set. I was able to focus enough on Liz anyway (and between songs, I initially politely asked people to refrain from talking, only to find it was of no use. Towards the end, I had to try very hard to keep from yelling "Shut the fuck up!" If people are unwilling to show some respect, I don't make much of an effort myself). Almost as aggravating were the people who were unfamiliar with Liz but still listened, only to make remarks like, "Does she have to use the word 'fuck' so much?" to each other between songs. I still had a good time anyway, it was my first time seeing Liz after all, but I had waited so long for the opportunity and I wish it had been different. What was amazing was seeing Liz play at the Opera House in Toronto two months later. It was a lot more intimate, and there was a lot more energy in both Liz's performance and the audience. Liz really is sensitive to audience energy, and she really thrived playing for her own fans. At the Lilith show, her set was good, but it suffered for two reasons: some of her songs are too intimate to translate well in such a huge setting, and it seemed like it was harder for Liz to really enjoy herself on stage while playing for a mostly disinterested crowd. I think the same thing would happen at these upcoming shows opening for Alanis. It's hard to say how receptive Alanis' audience would be. It would be nice if they were at least attentive, but I'm not going to kid myself. I've been to enough shows. I've been in the position where I can't wait for the opening act to finish so I could see the band I'm there to see (although I try much harder to be polite about it). The worst possible scenario would be if Liz had to face audiences like those Joni Mitchell did during the recent mini-tour she did opening for Bob Dylan. Some of the more enthusiastic Dylan fans, anxious to see their idol, were downright hostile to Joni. Her music, like Liz's, is a little more complex and intimate than that of who she was opening for, and for the most part, those who weren't familiar with it didn't make the effort to really listen and get into it. Apparently it was quite distracting to Joni, looking out into the audience and seeing all these people talking while she was performing. Apparently some people even went as far as to mimic her mannerisms, and there were a few occasions where, between songs, she would chastise the crowd out of frustration. She even had to deal with a few hecklers, for Christ's sake, and this is Joni Mitchell, a living legend, someone people should at least show some respect to. I guess all we can hope is that the teenyboppers at the Alanis shows will be a little more considerate than some of the boomers who went to see Bob. As Nora pointed out also, this has been done before, where a lesser-known but acclaimed act will open for a superstar act. The hope was that it would translate into sales, but it ended up being all in vain. At the same time, it does alienate some of the performer's loyal fan base. For example, I'm not willing to go see Liz during this set of shows with Alanis, and I'm sure many PJ Harvey fans didn't go to see her opening for Live. Another frustration for some people, and a great one of mine, is that the twice cancelled series of solo shows that were to take place and were to be rescheduled seem to have been scrapped completely in favor of these dates. Well, you know what? That sucks. I know I've defended Liz on her right to do whatever she wants in the past, but that was given the knowledge those shows would happen at another time. Now a lot of people who have never had the opportunity to see Liz play a smaller show in a more intimate setting have no choice but to see Liz under less than ideal circumstances, if they choose to see her at all. I really don't mind that Liz wants to court another audience (even though I don't think it'll be a particularly receptive one), but to promise something to her established fan base then take it away is just not right. Even if a lot of Alanis fans jump on the Liz bandwagon, these are people who fall prey to what's trendy and they'll likely move on to the next thing in time. We're the ones who are still going to be buying Liz Phair records ten years from now, so it doesn't pay for her alienate us, her loyal longtime fans. From a marketing perspective, I guess any amount of exposure is good, but at what cost? If Liz wanted to offer something to her established fans, this isn't the way to go. I mean, no offense to those who like Alanis, but there's not much crossover between Liz and Alanis' fan bases. Look at the average Liz fan and the average Alanis fan? There is a difference; it's not the same crowd. One thing I'm confused about is why Liz is opening for Alanis in the first place, seeing that while Liz has admitted to liking Alanis' first couple of singles, she's also make a number of less-than-favorable comments about her in the past. I doubt that she's much of a fan, which makes this move seem nothing more than a blantantly commercial one. Not that there's much wrong with that, I suppose (the music business is a business, after all), but I just don't think it's going to pay off the way Liz hopes. As Mike Marlatt said, "It just seems like she's getting some real bad advice from someone whos fortunes and career are tied to WCSE." Obviously, Liz is feeling the pressure to move units. I just don't think this is the best approach. My only hope is that my having her name connected with Alanis', Liz will be rewarded with more radio play once "Johnny Feelgood" is released. I'm also confused as to why Garbage, another band I love, are opening for Alanis as well. They have no problem selling out shows of their own, and a good portion of the general public are already familiar with their music. If those who see them opening for Alanis don't already own their albums, it's quite likely that they just don't like the music, not that they haven't heard it. They're also another band that has slagged Alanis off in the past (check out Butch Vig's comments about "Thank U" in the current issue of Spin - -- "Is this Supertramp? That's what this piano intro reminds me of"). It's weird that they would open for Alanis, given how it seems that they don't particularly care for her music. You know, in a way, it really seems to me like Alanis is trying to buy herself some credibility by having Liz and Garbage open for her, whatever their feelings about her are. Maybe she's hoping some of their hip and credibility will rub off on her. Apparently Hole were also offered the chance to open for Alanis, which is really odd, seeing how Courtney is one of the more well-known Morissette detractors. Going back to Liz, she's never compromised her art; she makes the music she wants to make, the way she wants to make it. She's even said in interviews that _whitechocolatespaceegg_ was not quite the record Matador was hoping for. I guess that given her artistic integrity, some fans are put off by her rather opportunistic marketing. I think that could be at the root of some of the opinions that have been expressed here recently. If Liz does become huge, I guess for some people, part of the magic will be lost. Many people like the fact that she's our secret. We're the ones in the know, and, while we don't mind sharing her with like-minded friends, making tapes and playing her music for the people we think would enjoy it, we don't want to let "them" (the masses) in. I'm not sure how I feel about this myself. Ultimately, it's not going to change my fandom, but there's still something I don't quite like about the idea of Liz becoming popular. I think my fear lies in the fact that a lot of people will pick up on her, only to discard her months later when something else comes along. The idea of Liz as a "flavor of the month" is really disgusting to me; she's just too good to be relegated to that status. I guess I'd just like to think that Liz can gain more fans who will be into her for the right reasons and will hang on for the long haul. When someone becomes huge only to have those people abandon them, they are viewed upon as failures as a result. I know that we would all know the truth of the matter, but I hate the idea of that happening to Liz. Maybe I am a more selfish fan than I realize. If Liz becomes huge and remains that way, I can deal with it. The shows may not be in such choice venues and they may not be so intimate, but I can either choose to go or not to. There are a lot of bands I just don't go to see live because I know I'll have to deal with the whole stadium show thing. I still love their music, but I don't go to see them because I know I probably won't be able to enjoy myself the way I like to at a show. I'd rather not have a bad concert experience to taint my appreciation than to see them and be disappointed. And that's cool. I can live with that. And in the case of Liz, I've already been extremely lucky. I will always have incredible memories of meeting her and of the show in Toronto in April. I'm probably thinking way too much about this anyway. As Steve said, mainstream America probably isn't going to bite any time soon. We've all had that experience of playing Liz for unsuspecting friends, only to get a "what the fuck?" reaction. I do consider myself a diehard Liz fan, so it's probably confusing to some people why I would be willing to travel to see Liz play a show of her own, but not as the opening act for Alanis. Well, these are the factors: 1. Inflated ticket prices. You are paying to see Alanis, a "star," and not Liz. No $12 general admission tickets here. 2. The impossible odds of getting anything resembling good seats. 3. Huge venues. Already explained my feelings on the lack of intimacy. 4. An audience who is mainly indifferent to Liz, and could possibly affect my enjoyment of her set, based on their behavior. 5. If Liz does have to face a particularly hostile or bored crowd, it could affect her performance. She's come a long way as a performer, but the wrong audience could throw her off. 6. A short set, likely comprised of her most accessible tunes. Not that I don't love "Polyester Bride" and "Supernova," but part of the Liz concert experience is hearing all those favorites that her fans shout out for at her shows. I'd really miss "Mesmerizing" and "Stratford-on-Guy" in particular. And, if the crowd is particularly young, Liz may opt for a PG-rated set and choose not to play songs like "Dance of the Seven Veils" (I can just imagine the stunned reaction that one would get from the youngsters) and "Fuck and Run." Overall, it would still be a chance to see Liz, and perhaps I would give in if there was a Toronto show, but it's just not worth an insanely long bus ride and taking two days off work to see Liz under these conditions. That said, I do hope that those who choose to go will have a good time, and I honestly can't wait to hear some reviews of the shows. Maybe they will be nothing like what I've imagined; I've been wrong before. Sorry that this is so long, Jase (not proof-reading this, which might be a bad idea) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:00:21 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: An offer I turned down I dunno. Just felt like sharing with everyone that I got an offer from some internet cd store where if I linked their page from my Liz page, I could earn about 15% from the revenues people spend after coming from my site. It sounded cool and all, but I turned it down cuz I don't want to be making money off of people after they come from my page. I only to give out info and share my interests from my page. Not make money. True fans are there to share their interests in music, not make money right? Off to hide in her spaceegg. Katie ():] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:47:29 -0700 From: Zack Jemison Subject: Tops of 1998 and Liz's opening act status This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------F63D8D5E7AFA38C88C49AE9A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, I've seen more than my share of Best of 1998 lists posted here, but why does my taste vary so much from that of my colleagues? Here are what I believe to be, in no particular order, the very musical best of 1998. Liz Phair - Whitechocolatespaceegg (Her most cohesive album ever) Billy Bragg & Wilco - Mermaid Avenue Lucinda Williams - Car Wheels on a Gravel Road All thoses excellent Kinks reissues Madonna - Ray of Light (Her best album in over a decade) Beastie Boys - Hello Nasty (Not incredibly groundbreaking in its own right, but, oh, so much better than Ill Communication!) Bob Dylan - Live 1966 Mary Lou Lord - Got No Shadow Elliot Smith - XO Pixies - Pixies at the BBC Sonic Youth - Hold That Tiger (An excellent live ablum from their incredible Sister tour) And, last but not least, in 1998 EMI/Capitol released their "Essential" collection, of which I have seen two sets of four albums each. Of the first series, which consisted of albums by Blondie, David Bowie, the Beach Boys, and R.E.M., the Blondie and Bowie CDs are amazing. The Blondie disc is a great live show and the Bowie disc is one of the best Greatest Hits compilations I've even heard. And there's gonna be some good stuff on the way in 1999, too; Sleater-Kinney has an album slated for release in February and we're all still waiting for the new Breeders album we were promised in May. I want a new Mary Lou Lord album, too. As far as this Alanis-Morrisette-Featuring-Special-Guest-Liz-Phair thing goes, I believe I understand where just about everyone is coming from. I'm been to plenty of shows just for the opening acts; I went to see the B-52's just for the Violent Femmes, I went to see Cypress Hill just for 311 and the Pharcyde, I went to see Neil Young simply because Sonic Youth was opening, and there would have been no way to get me to see U2 if the Pixies hadn't been up there on stage first. I have not yet determined, however, what it is that induces these musical greats to get down on their knees and open for a highly mediocre artist. Hell, it even makes me wonder about Jefferson Airplane when they used to open for the Grateful Dead. For as long as Jefferson Airplane was a band (even after Marty Balin left), they were always better than Jerry's Kids. However, Bill Graham knew that they wouldn't fill the Fillmore on a regular basis: only a musical entity with the Dead's lemming-like following could consistently pull that off. Ahhhh, commercialism. Why take chances with talent when you are assured to score with mediocrity? But, all this aside, there was a question in the last ssd about for whom it would be okay for Liz Phair to open. I'd go see her open for the Cramps. Or how about the Jon Spencer Blues Explosion? Throw Liz and JSBE in with Pizzicato Five and we can have a little Matadorfest. I'd personally love to see Liz open for a PJ Harvey/Bjork double billing. I think with Alanis the problem is in no way Liz, it's Alanis. The mere fact that she sucks so badly is enough to make anyone think twice about buying a ticket, even though Liz would be worth the whole price herself. But this is coming from someone who drove from Santa Fe to Austin just to see Liz's 40-minute set at Lilith Fair this year. More than likely it's me that's a little confused. - --------------F63D8D5E7AFA38C88C49AE9A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Zack Jemison Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Zack Jemison n: Jemison;Zack email;internet: zjemison@ibm.net x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------F63D8D5E7AFA38C88C49AE9A-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:12:58 EST From: Merchnt10k@aol.com Subject: Fuck and Run Can anyone hook me up with a wav/mp3/real audio of Fuck and Run? I'd be grateful for ever! Thanks, Erica ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:45:55 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Liz poll I would love to see Liz open for Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers. I think it would be a geat combination. Two of the best songwriters of the last 20 years together. It would be amazing. Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:56:31 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Liz should take stage presence lessons from..... ...Metallica! Now don't laugh, but I think that if Liz wants tips on stage presence and interacting with the crowd, she should look no further than Metallica. Here's why. There is nobody, I mean nobody, who has the stage presence that Metallica does. Even before he died, 2Pac(and god knows I don't like 2Pac) said that he took tips from Metallica on how to interact with and play to the fans on stage. I've seen Metallica 4 times, and I have to say that if Liz really wants to get better at performing live she should pop in a live Metallica tape and study it. It would be a lesson that she would never forget, and I think it would help her alot. Lord knows that Liz has gotten alot better on stage, but I think this would help tremendously. Think about it. I think it would be great for her. Happy Holidays, Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 98 21:19:51 GMT From: jdirksen@tmp.com (ST LOUIS) Subject: liz w/ jane's, pearl jam i'd like to see liz share a stage with either jane's addiction or pearl jam in an acoustic setting. ever heard jane's first cd, the live one, side two? the cover the hell out of lou reed's "rock + roll" and an earth-moving version of the stones "sympathy". pearl jam also put on a hell of an acoustic show...look at their mtv unplugged or any of their 3 appearances at neil young's bridge benefit shows. jd jdirksen@tmp.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:21:06 -0500 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: I burned my hand Recent troubles with my girlfriend have left me searching lyrics in Liz's music that empathize the situation. Obviously there's lines in Divorce song that hit right on the money without having to be so obvious. "It's true that I stole your lighter" is an amazing line that says so much. Now lets see.....when have I drawn on Alanis for inspiration and empathy.....hmmmmmm. Ah yes. When I burned my hand on the stove the other day I was reminded of one of her first songs. She sang so elegantly "Always too hot, never too cold, you take your best shot, to hot to hold". Truly Mezmerizing. Oh and after watching Jeopardy the other night I couldn't help but hear Alanis in the background singing "You live, You learn". Indeed, I was living and learning at the time. It's like she was watching over me. Smarten' up Liz Thank U ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:44:38 -0600 (CST) From: mysticalcrowe@webtv.net (steven thomson) Subject: what's the problem? What is it that provokes all this harsh sentiment against Alanis? I l love Liz. I love Alanis (even if her much of new album does suck). Live, Alanis is an amazing performer. Do go see her. Liz and Alanis together is one incredible billing. Because I am unable to follow rules, I am submitting my top 12 albums of the year for your perusal. You are excused if you don't know most of them. I love to listen to obscure artists. 1. Come ---Gently Down The Stream 2. Patty Griffin---Flaming Red 3. Lucinda Williams---Car Wheels On A Gravel Road 4. Liz Phair---Whitechocolatespaceegg 5. Cadallaca---Introducing Cadallaca 6. Amy Rigby---Middlescence 7. Joan Jones--Starlite Criminal 8. 22 Brides---Demolition Day 9. Starball---Holstein Park 10. Cheri Knight---The Northeast Kingdom 11. Bunnygrunt---Jen-Fi 12. Trona---Red River Your criticism and feedback is most welcome. -----Steven ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:26:08 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: JJ for J, and I love debate Hey y'all, this is a long post, so skip if you don't read long posts or have attention deficit disorder. Jase: You certainly should not be embarrassed that "I Love Rock and Roll" was your first album purchase! Joan rocked then, and she rocks now. Yes, <> but digging Joan Jett was not being <> (at least not among my friends). Joan was my first exposure to a gritty, in-your-face rockin' female artist (I had never heard of Patti Smith at the time). I still like to sing along to the title track and emulate that tiger's wail... AAOOWWW! Steve Kisko: I hate to belabor the Alanis tour subject, but... I agree with you to a point, that radio & MTV are key to WCSE's success. However, live performances are symbiotically related to radio & MTV exposure. Why else do artists tour after an album's release? Why else do artists do the talk-show circuit? To support their album's sales. They feed each other. Strategic marketing involves hitting a cross-section of exposure opportunities. As you pointed out, <>. So Liz is trying another avenue! I, for one, applaud her marketing savvy. No, opening for Alanis in and of itself will not markedly increase Liz's sales. But it's strategically positioning Liz for more and better exposure, now and in the future - a stepping stone, if you will. (If it helps you Alanis-haters, get a mental picture of Liz STEPPING on Alanis, USING her. Feel better now?) Opening for a highly visible act WILL draw more attention to Liz, more so than solo touring. Steve, if you've <> no need to point out the bloody obvious, that you're damned lucky! And as for <> - well, la-de-da. You sure raised some eyebrows with THAT statement. So what species do you belong to now? Mike Marlatt: <> Knock, knock... isn't LIZ PHAIR'S fortune and career tied to WCSE? Whose decisions are these anyway, Liz's - or all you critics'? It's her music, and her career, and I think she's entitled to try different avenues if she damn well pleases. Who are any of us to say that Liz should live in a van like REM did to "earn" mainstream success? The day any of us can write songs like hers and perform like she does, and inspire die-hard fans like those on this list, is the day I'll gladly listen to criticism of Liz's choices. In spite of all this (or perhaps *inspired* by all this), thanks for the spark of dissension and diversity. I haven't been enjoying the digest much lately. I can only take so much about candy, dreams, bootlegs, Top 10 lists with no reasons why (I thank those who DO give reasons for their favorites), etc. I'd rather stimulate my mind with more meaty stuff. Life is short. There's MY snob statement for 1998. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:47:33 -0600 From: saylerja Subject: alanis well, I dont like alanis, but I will tell you all my major beef with this thing. Its not that she is touring with alanis in an effort to expand her popularity or whatever, its that it will be another set like at lilith. A half hour or whatever of just a few songs. That is why I am not sure whether its even worth it to go. Not that i have to make that choice because Liz is not coming anywhere near me! Well, still hoping for a liz solo show in Nashville/St. Pete/Tampa =) - --Jenny - --Jenny "I wasn't sorry to see you lose" - -Liz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:49:56 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: P.S. Forgot to thank J Dirksen for your *very* original lists! Had me LOL. A perfect way to end the rollercoaster ride of digest #123. Cindy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:38:17 -0500 From: "Nicole W." Subject: Nitrous Oxide I finally remembered what it was called. :) - -Nicole P.S. I'm kinda sick of hearing about the whole alanass thing, so maybe... move it to another place? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:06:14 PST From: "Amy Blue" Subject: Alanis thing... Hey babies, I must say that I think it sucks that Liz is opening for Alanis. You guys have no clue how much I DON'T like Ms. Morrissette. I like her new song 'Thank You' but, all of her other songs make me cringe. I know you shouldn't judge people who you don't know but there are just those people who you can look at and they make you wanna flip. It's like that whenever I hear Alanis. I don't like her music at all. And I know if I end up going to see her in New Orleans, I'll be about the only person who gives a damn about Liz. I'd much rather have my first time seeing Liz live be more personal. Maybe in a small club or theatre. But, I've been DYING to see Liz for 4 years and I know if I didn't go I'd always wonder what it was like. Maybe I'll end up going. But I heard a rumour that the Beasties were coming to New Orleans soon and if that's true than I will definitely wait and see Liz later on in a more personal setting:) My top 5 of '98 are: (I just love reading everyone's list) 1. Liz Phair: Whitechocolatespaceeg 2. Beastie Boys: Hello Nasty 3. Garbage: Version 2.0 4. Lenny Kravitz: Five 5. Lauryn Hill: The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill(I haven't heard all of this one, but what I have heard, I like ) Honorable Mention: Stardust: Music Sounds Better With You Jay-Z: Hard Knock Life...Vol. 2 Rob Zombie: Hellbilly Deluxe Hole: Celebrity Skin Madonna: Ray of Light Gotta go, Hugs and Love, *Rollergirl* Happy Holidays to all of my fellow Space Eggs! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:30:56 -0500 From: Isha Leigh Subject: yet more on liz and alanis I swear to god she's singing backwards, really. Okay maybe this Malcolm person exists, I need to get out more. I have to agree that the regretful opening act decision won't help liz's career any. If you look at the sales of wcse compared to whipsmart it isn't THAT much of an improvement. If mass media exposure and "opening" at Lilith for all those dates (and I feel it was opening in some cases) didn't make her a staaahr, then playing music too deep for most 13 year olds isn't going to either. How many of Alanis's fans do you think would appreciate What Makes You Happy? Liz also doesn't scream and jump and dance around like Gwen Stefani or Alanis either. She's just in a different realm of performing. Who would be acceptable to follow liz's act? Maybe Tori Amos, because she has a completely different music style and could maybe give props to liz by covering one of the "piano songs." She could open for one of the female singers from the olden days:) like Joni Mitchell. I realized that I'm thinking female only, but the only male band I can think of right now is Pavement. I'll annoy everyone and multiple post if I think up more later. Favorite post: I'm sure I missed out on a bit after Juno decided i didn't need my 6'1 digests ( I thought Jason kicked me off for one too many stupid posts), but I think I enjoy Jason's stories over the others. Hint: finish already! He always kind of interjects and clarifies things. "Ken's Project" - I reeeally like this CD AND tape tree setup! Kudos (peanut butter flavor) to ken for thinking this up and a big pblllllfffft! to those who were too cheap. - ---melissa ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #124 ************************************