From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #122 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, December 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Alanis not in Lilith [Merchnt10k@aol.com] My top 7 [Merchnt10k@aol.com] Replies, part one [Jason Long ] My two cents [Matt Schulz ] I'm over this Alannis situation [Craig King ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Oh God, another list! ["Darrin J. Schroeder" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Thank U? No thank you... [DeadShark@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V1 #121 [AngelLieb@aol.com] Liz of course [AngelLieb@aol.com] Re: get a grip [jtconnolly ] I survived! [Josh Webb ] 1998's Chosen Dozen and the best in singles, videos, and concerts [Samedi] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:49:42 EST From: Merchnt10k@aol.com Subject: Alanis not in Lilith <http://lilithfair.excite.com under artists for both years of the tour. >Alanis did tour by herself to support Jagged Little Pill.>> Woooooooooooooo! Relax hon! I believe ya, I swear =) ~Erica~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:51:02 EST From: Merchnt10k@aol.com Subject: My top 7 My top ten of '98 includes: 1. S'il Suffisait D'aimer~ Céline Dion (note: if you don't like her please don't bash me!) 2. WCSE~ Damn it! I forgot who this one's by...maybe someone can help me... 3. Siren~ Heather Nova 4. Ophelia~ By the fantastic Natalie Merchant =) 5. Sheryl Crow~ Globe Sessions 6. Jewel~ Spirit 7. The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill Everything else I listen to is from 96 or 97, so I guess that does it for this year's music :) ~Erica~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:06:31 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Replies, part one [Sorry, I sent this before I intended to last time..] I've kinda gotten a little behind in reading and replying to the list, so here's some small attempt to catch up... Mark Schmidt wrote: >I don't think Liz put Russian Girl on her album b/c it's almost >completely lifted from another song. Still haven't figured out which, >but the verses sound almost exactly like some Bowie or Sweet >song--something glam. The song Liz borrowed parts of "Russian Girl" from is "Hot Child in the City" by Nick Gilder, one of the biggest one-hit wonders of the late '70s. It's not exactly a knockout of a song, but I do remember it from my parent's collection of K-Tel LPs, so it was kind of interesting to hear Liz make use of parts of it in her song. >Which can get you in legal trouble if you release it and try to make >money off it. Heck, she might not have even realized when she recorded >the demo; maybe not til later. I'm sure Liz realized that she was using parts of a pre-existing song; she likely conceived of it as a "manual sample," like she did with the parts of Malcolm McLaren's "Double Dutch" she used in "Whip-Smart." This was one of Liz's favorite techniques back in the Girlysound days, so it probably wasn't an accident. One thing I'm kind of curious about is the rather obvious borrow from The Beatles' "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" that Liz makes in "Fantasize." The liner notes offer no credit to the source, and I wonder how Liz managed to pull that off. The Malcolm McLaren thing was credited and it's a little more obscure; the Beatles, however, everyone knows. Marlie asked, about Girlysounds: >(PS...is everryones copy kind of bad quality for the songs up to >Stratford-On-Guy????) On my copies, the songs before "Stratford-on-Guy" are among the best in terms of quality. Some of the songs afterwards, such as "In Love With Yourself" leave a little to be desired, however. Overall, though, there's not a lot I would complain about. And, as always, if anyone would like Girlysound dubs, I'm more than willing to make copies for anyone who provides the blanks and postage. (I see that a couple of people have asked for copies on the list recently.) Katie wrote: > What's so great about Stratford-on-Guy? >I don't quite get why most people like it. I like it too, but I just don't >understand why it seems to be so popular among Liz phans. "Stratford-on-Guy" was one of the first two Liz songs I heard, back-to-back with "Help Me, Mary," on a college station while visiting relatives towards the end of the summer of '93. I had read about Liz in Rolling Stone's 'Summer Music Preview' (in the July 8, 1993 issue) and was intrigued enough by what I read to make a note to pick up her album if I ever came across it. Finally hearing some of her music set me to searching for the CD in earnest. It took me a bit of time to find it, but I was completely blown away by it when I did. I guess at this point, "Stratford-on-Guy" holds a great deal of sentimental value for me, because it was the first Liz song I heard. What really caught my attention when I heard it that first time was the combination of the incredible narrative (no one else has an eye for detail like Liz's) and the progression of (slightly odd) chords during the verses. Brad Wood's amazing drum patterns and the chorus sealed the deal. I'd never heard another song quite like it before. It was one of those songs where, as it progresses, you keep finding yourself turning the volume up even further. It was just this incredible song, one of the ones where you get really excited because you know you've found something that is truly good. "Help Me, Mary," which played afterwards, was damn close to being that amazing for me as well. I guess I'm not that great at explaining music in technical terms, but I hope I kind of gave you an idea of how amazing it was to me, hearing "Stratford" on the radio that first time. Once I really listened the noise just fell away, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:19:34 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Schulz Subject: My two cents Liz, fire your management?!? What? That's the silliest thing I've ever heard. First, the name of this game is to sell records. The Alanis audience seems the perfect one for Liz to infiltrate to help her album sales. Good move. We know Liz has credibility already, so let's lighten up. Second, great artists can handle mixing it up with the mainstream. Take REM for example. It didn't affect the long-term direction and uniqueness of their music at all. So what if she opens for Alanis? If the music doesn't suffer -- and why would it? -- what do we care? Third, as people have mentioned, she IS going to be touring and you WILL be able to see her. And above all, its not like she's been playing these Springsteen-esque 4-hour shows either. How much are we really losing? Yes, those who go may have to put up with annoying young Alanis fans, but above all, you're getting to see Liz play and that's that. We love Liz and love the fact that she's sort of our own little secret. However, let's have her sell some records and share our secret with other folks... So, in short, let's get over ourselves, shall we? Sorry to be harsh, but that's my two cents. Matt Schulz The Glory of Liz Phair http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Frontrow/5064/ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:44:18 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: I'm over this Alannis situation Man! It's only 11 degrees right now in Milwaukee. Thank god my Florida trip is less than 3 weeks away. Anyways, I think I've calmed down about this Liz opening for Alannis situation. Here's why I think she agreed to open for Alannis. I think she wants to go out there and show all of these pathetic Alannis fans why she is the greatest female performer in the world today. I think that she wants to go out there and put on the best live performances of her career. Once those people hear songs like Fuck and Run, Stratford, Flower, ect..., they will have no choice but to convert to Liz fans. So I am now glad that Liz is opening for Alannis, because I think that Liz will blow everyone away and Alannis will not be able to live up to Liz. I love the Hendrix opening for the Monkees analogy. It fits SO perfectly with this situation. I still think that in 5 - 10 years people will be saying "Alannis who?" and Liz will be at the top of the mountain. At least I pray to god that's what will happen. Why? Because thats the way it should be. Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:07:50 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: David Weich Subject: liz and alannis regarding complaints about liz touring with alannis: if you don't like alannis, or you don't feel that thirty minutes of liz is worth buying a ticket to see her in a large venue, don't go to the shows. liz owes you absolutely nothing. she's a musician, not your mother or your friend. and commercially, it's probably the best thing that's ever happened to her, with the possible exception of the rolling stone cover. but i suppose it was selfish of her to consider her career instead of your feelings. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:29:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Darrin J. Schroeder" Subject: Oh God, another list! Top 10 of 1998: (with apologies to David Letterman and all of you who hate lists) 1) Getting laid 2) Getting high 3) Getting laid while high 4) Discovering a GREAT tequila (courtesy of a friend), Las Trancas 5) Meeting real cool people through 6'1", then Support System 6) Losing my job (hey, I didn't say it was a GOOD top 10!) 7) Becoming self-employed without starving 8) Listening to all the super music supplied by people in #5 9) Stopping smoking (again) 10)Twelve consecutive months without killing my roommates (oh, wait, that might actually be on *their* top 10, too!). I wish everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and enjoy Liz wherever and whenever you can. I remain... Darrin _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:46:41 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Sellwood Subject: Liz videos Ok, I am really interested in getting Liz video stuff, and I was wondering who has what and all that, and what is a must-see Liz vid wise? I have only ever seen the clip for "Stratford-on-Guy", anyway, if anyone can help that'd be great, Emma. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:51:38 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Nicole W." Subject: Forgive me if this has been posted. Wow... digest #121 came out early. I found this while clickingon stuff on AOL. It's from Rolling Stone magazine, I think. I mean I don't know if it's just online or if it's in the mag too, even though I subscribe to the mag. Although I think my subscription has expired. Hmm. I think since I've subscribed for like five years or more, I should get a free year subscription. Anyway... This is it, and it's kinda long, so my apologies. The Year in Recordings >From Master P to Mercury Rev: Albums that mattered in 1998 By DAVID FRICKE and ROB SHEFFIELD LIZ PHAIR Whitechocolatespaceegg Matador/Capitol The older, maternal Liz Phair on Whitechocolatewhatever is not as immediately engaging, or as sexually aggressive, as the Liz Phair who threw the feminist-punk rule book out the window with her Susan Sontag-and-Keith-Richards-on-a-blind-date double album, Exile in Guyville. But just as motherhood is (among other things) an exercise in patience, this record -- softer and smoother than Guyville -- requires extra forbearance. Give it time and you'll find that Phair has more than strained beets and preschool on her mind. "Perfect World" is about yearning for the impossible, and falling painfully short; in "Go On Ahead," Phair gets frank and fretful about the new dynamics of a relationship in which baby makes three. In its reflections on adulthood and child rearing, Whitechocolateetc. is prickly pop, impressive in its living-room-serenade intimacy and the tight-focus impact of Phair's singing. Hopefully, i wn't have anything to post again, cuz I know I never read the long posts. But I never get mad when people post more than once. - -Nicole I Spy a May Queen http://www.angelfire.com/ca/DontWalk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:34:32 EST From: DeadShark@aol.com Subject: Thank U? No thank you... Hey folks, I'm not too swift in the posting department, so bear with me here pal- ies. ;)(I'm much better live! hehe) Anyway, I am no indie rock snob. I have no "cred". And yet, I will not be seeing Liz open for Alanis when the tour stops here in Philadelphia. Why, you ask? Well even if you didn't ask I'm gonna tell ya... I don't like her music. I don't appreciate her ruse. I don't want her hand in my pocket...taking out my ticket money. I don't think this will advance Liz's career. And I think Liz deserves better. An audience who will appreciate her to start. I was telling some friends from the list earlier that I remember when PJ Harvey(whom I think is fabulous) opened for Live (I didn't attend that show either btw) that is was supposed to give her a bit of mainstream exposure. I have a few friends who were Live fans, they were just regular fans of Live. They weren't into music like most of us here. They *loved* Titanic and it's soundtrack, ya know what I mean? Anyway, they all came out of the concert and found that the whole crowd, including them, was asking who that sucky opening act was. And yes, I am aware that there were people there who went to see PJ and I'm sure there were some who walked away fans but I seriously think they were in the minority. Not that I don't think PJ could blow Live out of the god damned solar system, well actually, that's exactly what I think. If everything is for nothing with Liz and/or her management if the "product" out there doesn't make millions and doesn't have the top space in the Total request slot then what do we have left? But what do I know, right? I'm only a silly fan. A fan who subscribes to a mailing list that exists for the purpose of creating a place where these things can be discussed without someone saying "Get a life" or "Go outside" one of my personal favorites...Ahhh but that's not what it seems like lately. Maybe, *I'm* on the wrong list. Oh well, I apologize for nothing! oops! I mean I apologize for making half sense there sometimes and for fragmented thoughts. ;) Nora who shelled out a lot of moolah to see Liz at Lilith, and it's a damn good thing I got too drunk after her performance to "experience" the rest! ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:57:46 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #121 <> For some reason, I can get really attached this song. This is the song where I've used as quotes in my poems. Sigh...great choice of words! Rut ro...I'm about to cry just thinking of the song! I loooooove it! ():*) <> I dunno. I'm still trying to figure it out! I think of it as being super dee duper happy, like waaaaaay up the wall. ():D <> <> I'm sorry, I found this digest to be very depressing. I totally agree with the two quotes above though. Still no Florida and we don't complain. Or at least I think we're not complaining, we're just yelling and screaming that she come down here! I don't quite understand why everyone is whining that she's opening for Alanis. C'MON! SHE'S BACK ON THE STAGE FOR YOU! And no stage for Florida.....sigh....."dreams last for soooo long." I really can't rate the top ten cds of '98. I'm not sure I even bought ten brand new cds this year. I find myself buying a lot of old cds, like catching up on Stevie Nicks. Ohk...here's my list ...hopefully. 1. Liz. 1. Sheryl Crow - The Globe Sessions (sorry, I love both of them equally and they both deserve to be on the top of my list!) 3. Jewel - Spirit 4. Stevie Nicks - Enchanted 5. Natalie Merchant - Ophelia Sigh....out of nowhere..I came up with an idea of whitechocolate Twizzlers. Boy...I must be made out of sugar or something! Salutations! (from little spider, Charlotte) Liz is touring again! Chin up! Katie ();) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 00:38:05 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Liz of course I dunno. Just listening to a bunch of tapes here. Liz is sooooo beautiful! Garsh! I cry just listening to the tapes, and I'll be a mess if I ever got to see her in concert! Of course, I had this dream (sorry to bore y'all) where I couldn't even step into the theater cuz I was admiring the sign bearing Liz's name. And when I did finally get inside....I cried my eyeballs out and I think I fainted. sigh....I dream too much...think too much....consume too much sugar. Katie ();) "dreams unwind, love's a state of mind" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:02:53 -0800 From: jtconnolly Subject: Re: get a grip > Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:42:23 -0500 (EST) > From: James Michael Draper Jr > Subject: get a grip > > > Subject: worst news i have ever heard in my life > > > > ...honestly, this is the most appalling thing I have ever heard. > > get a grip. please > > it's a damn tour. it ain't cancer. > > if you're THIS worked about about a double billing of alanis > and liz, then maybe some people should reprioritize > > if this list turns into another whining session (well, it > already has!) then all i can say is that this list must be > full of the most spoiled brats i've ever come across. > > there ARE more important things in life. i'm not kidding > > xjimmy > 1. I didn't realize people in this digest couldn't recognize hyperbole (sorry for having given you too much credit). 2. many people I've known (old and young) have died from cancer, so I have received that kind of news several times. i would never use the seriousness of it as a weapon on an on-line music discussion, for fuck's sake. whose priorities are where? "get off your high horse" and recognize the difference in these very different things. 3. I didn't realize that this wasn't a place where people could sound off about a Liz-related topic. Why do people get so righteous all of a sudden and out of the blue when this is alleged to be a "forum" (ie. open discussion)?? where/when do all of these unwritten rules come in? (who are the assholes making them up?) 4. Alanis sucks, and the decision for Liz to tour with her is regrettable. (this OPINION i will not waiver from, despite many great posts that present various ways of looking at the positives of this tour.) 5. If you're out there and told me (or any one else who is fired up about this shitty news) to take a deep breath/drink water/or do any other such fucking thing because you didn't like my post, why don't YOU do ME a favor..... breathin fire even more now, FRAN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:11:57 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Webb Subject: I survived! Hello all, I am happy to say that I survived December 21st. I know this sounds like a marginal achievement, but all on various December 21sts, I've had my house broken into, my car broken into, a speeding ticket, my favorite pet died, and I know there was one other thing which is slipping my mind right now. After finding out that Nick's birthday is Dec. 21st, it made me think. I'm going with the positive approach that this was a great thing for Liz instead of the four score and seven years between albums. Speaking of Nick, it made me think of a quote from my favorite laughs per minute movie, Top Secret!. There was a scene where Val Kilmer in his first movie was explaining his name to his new romantic interest, Hillary. The dialogue went something like this: Hillary: My name is Hillary. It means, "She whose bosoms defy gravity. Nick: Really? Hillary: Yes, what does your name mean? Nick: I'm American. Our names don't mean anything. I think my dad thought of it while he was shaving. Just thought I'd share. By the way, for all of you who have been inquiring, I have the Pontiac, MI show in and it's amazing. To check my updated tape trading page, the URL is on my signature. Late, Josh == "And it feels like I've got something to prove But in some ways, it's just something to do"-Liz Phair If you're interested in trading live tapes with me, visit: http://www.angelfire.com/fl/layeroffilm/tapelist.html Go Noles!!!!!!!! Rock those hillbillies!!!!!!! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:28:15 -0500 From: Samedi James Alejo Subject: 1998's Chosen Dozen and the best in singles, videos, and concerts I haven't posted in the list for a while. But I guess I should post the albums that have made my life a little bit better this year. As usual, 1998 has really nothing much in terms of music. We are still bombarded by bands like Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind, Goo Goo Dolls, and of course, the omnipotent Spice Girls and the Backsteet Boys which are enough to give me a pukathon. There's nothing much annoying than tuning in to your music video channel and found that Hanson has been played for the nth time already during the day. Inspite of the presence of half-assed boy groups, bogus alternative bands, and wannabes, there are some albums that I can say has moved me to tears, angst, passion, cheesiness, and whatever. Here they are: 01. Celebrity Skin - Hole (Like what some people say here in the list, the new Hole album sounds so "pop" and is intentionally packaged for mass consumption. I have to admit that it took me maybe 6 weeks before I started to get into this album. But this album is so honest and this is one manifestation that grunge is not really that dead yet. Now, I can never get enough of this especially with the songs Malibu, Dying, and Boys on the Radio. And with the track, Playing Your Song, Courtnet Love screams and sings the song for her own band and its impending doom for selling-out). 02. From the Choirgirl Hotel - Tori Amos (Surely, the finest work of Tori Amos to date. This is the album which has accompanied me in my depression days during the months of May and June. And until now, I can't help but have goosebumps all over my body everytime I listen to this album.) 03. Mutations - Beck (O Maria and Bottle of Blues in this album are simply one of the best Beck has ever made. It's totally different from Odelay but with Beck, he can make it all happen.) 04. Whitechocolatespaceegg - Liz Phair 05. Mezzanine - Massive Attack 06. For the Masses (Tribute to Depeche Mode) - Various Artists 07. Version 2.0 - Garbage 08. Yield - Pearl Jam 09. Roseland NYC Live - Portishead 10. Hello Nasty - Beastie Boys 11. XO - Elliott Smith 12. Mechanical Animals - Marilyn Manson 6 INDISPENSABLE SONGS OF THE YEAR 1. Teardrop - Massive Attack 2. Malibu - Hole 3. Intergalactic - Beastie Boys 4. Waltz #2 - Elliott Smith 5. Tropicalia - Beck 6. Spark - Tori Amos 6 Most Pleasing, Shocking, and Coolest Videos of the Year 1. Rabbit in Your Headlights - U.N.K.L.E. 2. Do the Evolution - Pearl Jam 3. Intergalactic - Beastie Boys 4. No Surprises - Radiohead 5. Only You - Portishead 6. The Rockafeller Skank - FatBoy Slim Best Tours 1. Garbage in Summersault '98 (August 1998, Molson Park in Barrie, Canada) 2. Beck (June 1998, Molson Ampitheater, Toronto) 3. Liz Phair (October 1998, The Opera House, Toronto) 4. Radiohead (April 1998, Maple Leafs Garden, Toronto) 5. Beastie Boys (August 1998, Molson Park in Barrie, Canada) Disappointments of the Year: Smashing Pumpkins' Adore. I can't believe that the band that came up with one of the best albums of the decade which is Siamese Dreams can make a crap like Adore. It's also the first time that PJ Harvey didn't make it to my year's Chosen Dozen. I like it better the days she used to moan, scream, and come crying at me, almost bleeding to death. REM's Up. This is down. And hey, I'll die for Mike Stipe and co. Enough Said, James. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ////////////////////////////////////////////// / Take the skin and peel it back. / / Now, doesn't that make you feel better? / / - Nine Inch Nails / ////////////////////////////////////////////// ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #122 ************************************