From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #113 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, December 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 113 Today's Subjects: ----------------- yikes ["Jennifer Sayler" ] bootleggin' [Gabriel Peterson ] Live Recordings Web Site [Josh Webb ] Stratford-On-Guy and stuff [Craig King ] ken and the tapes [PhairDanes@aol.com] a question from #wcse [Ascending to the Stars ] Liz is no van Gogh ["Jorge (George) Cooper" ] Tapes [Tiffany M Wilson ] Old review, stratford, feelgood, 7 veils [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:05:42 -0600 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: yikes Okay, I really didnt want to get myself involved in this, but people seem not to be understanding the difference between ken's tapes and the other stuff (You know what I am talking about). Anyways, I thought I would tell you all how I perceive this. Yeah, the guy ken is buying the tapes from is making a lot of money, but it ends there and nobody else will profit from this. However, if someone else, for example MEfest, were to buy these tapes, then there would be two people profitting, and who knows where that would end. So my basic philosophy is that everyone should share the wealth!!! Its all about the music anyways, and sometimes it seems like people lose sight of it. But really we are all here because liz rocks!!! Okay, I feel better! So my message to everyone is: Happy Holidays, peace on earth, and good liz music to all!!!! =) =) =) (you can never have too many smiley faces) =)=)=) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "All the fear has left me now, I'm not frightened anymore" - Sarah McLachlan- http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:15:46 +0000 (GMT) From: Gabriel Peterson Subject: bootleggin' I am reading everybody's take on bootleggs and I agree with them to a certain degree. At the same time, it's illegal to do it at all (with the exception of the Dead and any body else that has given a legal 'green light')so it's kinda difficult to be too preachy about the right way to do bootleggs. I personally feel that as long as it hasn't been released commercially by the artist, then I'm comfortable purchasing the bootlegg. It would be great if everyone just made copies at cost but it's difficult to create a group of people to do it. With the internet, it's a lot easier but not everyone has access so it takes people who are doing it as a business to get these copies everywhere. Now I think back and even this definition doesn't do it for me because there are situations like the Pamela Anderson/Tommy Lee video. That would be acceptable in my definition because they hadn't released it themselves. Hmmm. Alright, I think what has to be said is that it's illegal but take it to the level that you're comfortable with. I am more comfortable with paying $30 for a concert boot that was performed in front of a crowd (aka the masses) rather than purchasing and distributing studio outtakes which were done privately in the attempts to get the version that would be released to the masses. It's almost like digging through her trash. Again, it's whatever level you're comfortable with. Gabriel _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 08:09:53 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Webb Subject: Live Recordings Web Site Hello all, Just wanted to remind everybody that I'm putting together a website dedicated to Liz's live recordings and demos. In seeing all the bootleg business that has been going on, it seems to take a lot of the effort out of getting specific shows. I have bought a lot of the bootleg CDs in the past, but now that I've been mobilized on the net, I know there's a better way. My hope is to make it easier for everybody to find that specific show they are looking for or just to find something new. I never announced my name for the site, so I better do that to get my very unofficial copyright on the name. It's called "Every Hollow Has It's Favorite Sound". For anybody who's interested in having their list online, let me know. It's only for Liz, though, so don't send lists of other bands. If you want to work out trades for other bands, just contact the traders. I'm sure many people will want to trade for other stuff. If you want to submit your list, send me show date, venue, show quality(A-F) and if I don't have the show, setlist. I've only had a few people contact me so far. It's looking like a very extensive way of putting together a list for a couple of people, so please put together those lists. To compare with my lists, my current tape trade page is at: http://www.layeroffilm/fl/layeroffilm/tapelist/html I also have the following shows on the way: 04/11/95 Los Angeles 04/21/95 Milwaukee, WI 10/19/98 Pontiac, MI And as always, if anybody wants to trade, I'm always up for new stuff and if you're looking for your first Liz shows and only have other bands, contact me. I always like getting new bands. Let me know what you have. By the way, on the profit of bootleggers: I was one of the suckers who paid twenty five bucks for the 10/17/98 Minneapolis boot from mefest. I've recorded that show thirteen times for other people, so the way I see it, that show has turned a profit of $1.78 per person. I'm sure over time I'll record that show a lot more and get it under a buck. Small amount of satisfaction. Anyway, if you want to be an inaugural list poster on the tape trade site, email me privately. I hope to have the site up within the next week or two. Josh == "And it feels like I've got something to prove But in some ways, it's just something to do"-Liz Phair If you're interested in trading live tapes with me, visit: http://www.angelfire.com/fl/layeroffilm/tapelist.html Go Noles!!!!!!!! Rock those hillbillies!!!!!!! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:44:08 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Stratford-On-Guy and stuff Egg Girl Katie, I can't speak for everyone else, but I love Stratford-On-Guy because of the whole feel of the song. It's kind of hard to explain, but I love that cool drum beat that fades in and out and then back in at the beginning. Then I like when the guitar gets a little heavier during the chorus. Like I said, it's kind of hard to explain, but it's my favorite Liz song. By the way, I actually do like reading some poetry. I have all of the Jim Morrison poetry books that are out, which are great! I never used to really appreciate poetry or lyrics, but listening to The Doors got me into it. Plus, since I play guitar, I try to write lyrics, which is kind of like writing a poem of sorts. I have a whole notebook full of lyrics and poems that I have scribbled down over the last 3 years. That remindes me, I was just wondering who all on this list plays guitar? And for whoever does, were you ever in a band? I played drums, and sometimes guitar, in a band for about a year. We weren't that great, but we played a few shows (if you want to call them that) at a few local community centers. As Liz would say, it was a gas! Well, everyone have a happy Liz filled day! Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:56:32 EST From: PhairDanes@aol.com Subject: ken and the tapes like some others on the list, i want to contribute to ken's tape funds, but i didn't have ANY money until this weekend. if its not too late, i'd really like to contribute. just out of curiousity- are you only going to make copies for those people who contributed? i have a feeling this is the case and i REALLY want these tapes, so i definitely want to give you some money. i can have money in the mail tomorrow. sara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:44:24 -0500 (EST) From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: a question from #wcse so a bunch of us college types were hanging out chatting early yesterday evening (before i departed for my drunken party spree... ) and either nicole or jenny asked a very good question, for which neither ken nor i could come up with a decent answer. on the girlysounds version of whipsmart, what is liz saying in the background during the chorus of "when they do the double dutch, they stand tensies" its sounds something like "ethyl" or "ever" or something like that. so go listen hard.. cause now i'm super curious! i'm going back to work now, cause i've actually been able to be productive the past few days.. maybe i wont' fail out of school. oh, and for those who care, chanukkah starts tonite, so dont' forget to light the candles and play some dreidle (we are going to play dreidle drinking games on tuesday before the big "last day of classes" parties ) tootles all! (:ruthie:), anxiously awaiting her fuck and run (hi george ) *******DECEIVE*******INVEIGLE*******OBFUSCATE******* "Mulder, I'd kiss you if you weren't so damn ugly" "Wild and unwise, I want to be mesmerizing too" "All the stars up in heaven were rushed by the angels to see the light of your face better" --Liz Phair "I'd like to say it was great while it lasted, but I won't lie" --Jen Trynin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:09:00 +0000 From: "Jorge (George) Cooper" Subject: Liz is no van Gogh Fellow lizbos, This is my first post in a month. I've been reading a lot about proposed hit singles and why Liz isn't a huge star. Here are my thoughts on this clamor. For any given artist, there is a compelling aspect that attracts fans. I'm going to break it down into four categories: A) the words -- the stories and pictures the lyrics paint. Bob Dylan works here. And so does Liz Phair, as evidenced by the many lyric scientists on this list. I would put PJ Harvey in here also. B) the voice -- people just like to hear these people sing. I think Van Morrison, Jewel, Sarah, Tori Amos et al. could sing the phone book and entertain us. C) the music -- whether it's energizing or soothing, that's what attracts people. Nirvana, Dead Can Dance, Portishead, Nine Inch Nails. D) the intangibles - - Tori Amos has this. Fans are drawn to her defiance. Liz Phair has a sexual intangible. While Madonna showed us the downstairs, the attic was empty. Liz is the songwriter Madonna wanted to be. Liz is cerebral and lusty, a powerful combination. I think Tori and Liz also represent freedom from the norms and conventions of society. Sarah's songs make her fans feel that everything's going to be all right. Nirvana and Pearl Jam rocked, plus they were in the right place at the right time. So, here's how Liz sizes up for me: words, intangibles, voice, music. How would you fans rank these categories with Liz and other bands? I think the rescheduling of the tour for a new single is pointless. "Johnny Feelgood" is not going to make Matador feel good. If I may be so bold, Liz will never have a hit single. It may be different on the two coasts, but I have never even heard one of her songs on the radio in Dallas. She has the hardest path to Hitsville: the words. Liz Phair admires Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan and Lyle Lovett, three great songwriters. How many hit singles have they generated in the last 10 years? They have build a core of fans based on the actual songwrting, just like Liz is doing. And it's not just Liz. The same goes for PJ Harvey. She's also too smart for the radio. Patrick Henry said the masses are stupid. That was 200 years ago. Let's look at the titles of this week's Billboard Top 10 singles to see if Patrick Henry was right: "I'm Your Angel," "Nobody's Supposed To Be Here," "Lately," "From This Moment On," "Doo Wop (That Thing)," "Because Of You," "Love Like This," "Baby One More Time," "Lullaby," and "Have You Ever?" I have heard one of these songs and that's too many. It sounds like a collection of Hallmark card sentiments and sap. Do any of these title grab you? Is this what you want Liz to write to get a hit single? Liz is Matador's best. She's got a nice contract. She's great, even if she's not a huge star. She will never be as big as Celine, Mariah, Whitney, things that make you throw up. But Liz is no van Gogh. She's not suffering the life of a doomed genius. She sells thousands of paintings and has a pile of fans and admirers. So, don't cry for Liz. Jorge in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:10:59 -0500 (EST) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: Tapes To everyone who sent me blank tapes... I swear, they'll all be in the mail by Friday. It's finals week, but I'm doing my damndest to finally finish taping. Sorry it took so long, I hope you can all forgive me... - -Tiff "If I ever pay you back, if my money and wallet's in tact, I'll probably be in a box lying down, loosely suited in black..." -Liz Phair "Little girl keeps growing up, playing makeup, wearing guitar..." -Paul Westerberg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:26:51 -0500 (EST) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Old review, stratford, feelgood, 7 veils Just when you thought it was December, here comes an old review of _whitechocolate..._ from Link, a free magazine for college students: - --- "The New Girly Sound" She may have been signed by Matador on the strength of her lo-fi "Girly Sound" bedroom recordings; and her frank, sexual lyrics -- along with those of PJ Harvey -- helped pave the way for much lesser talents to wave the female flag. So, yeah, there's no denying how revolutionary Liz Phair seemed (especially to easily excitable male rock critics) when her debut, _Exile in Guyville_, appeared on a male-dominated indie-rock scene five years ago. But her undeniable gift for quirky, sing-songy new-wave melodies kept Phair from being relegated to flavor-of-the-month status. Phair's pop sensibility is at its most fully realized on her third album, _whitechocolatespaceegg_ (Matador/Capitol), which finally puts an end to a four-year gap between albums. Of course, Phair had good reasons for taking so long to follow up _Whip-Smart_. She got married and had a kid. And while she overtly tackles domestic bliss on a few of the album's tracks -- "Purple, yellow, reddish brown / Once I felt you, I couldn't lay you down," she gushes on the title track -- Phair just seems more happy with herself at 31 than she did at 26. Maybe domesticity and contentment aren't as revolutionary as sexual candor, but when they're approached with the intelligence and wit of the 16 nearly perfect songs on _whitechocolatespaceegg_, that seems radical to us. The brilliant "Polyester Bride" single, coupled with her Lilith Fair appearances should deservedly propel Phair to at least demi-star status, which would be fine with her. As she sings on "S***loads of Money," "It's nice to be liked / But it's better by far to get paid." Of course, with all those diapers and baby food to pay for, it can't hurt. [August/September issue] - --- I just liked it 'cause it's so positive. And speaking of positive reviews, Katie, I don't think Rolling Stone had a negative tone to its year-end review of the record at all -- you seemed so put off by it, while I found that and the picture caption "...one bad mutha" to be a simple pat on the back for Liz. Make no mistake, Rolling Stone loves Liz. They put her on their cover, give her records four-star ratings, and include her in their year-end best-of issue. Spin is the enemy here, just so you know. Fuck Spin. Katie also asked why "Stratford" is so popular. I could say it's *popular* because "it rocks!" (which it does, hard) and leave it at that, but it could also have something to do with the terrifically complex melody, the unusual chord progression, and Liz's perfect narrative. The way she describes what she sees on the plane is so dead-on and is a prime example of what makes Liz an outstanding songwriter. The chord progression, however, is really interesting and makes for an unconventional melody (the verse chords, for anyone interested, are E, C, G, B, F, C, F#, B). The whole song (album version) is really intense, especially on the chorus, and there's also the Girlysound version -- very different. So you actually have 2 versions of the song to choose from, which is interesting. I'm so glad someone else pointed out the connection between "It's Only Rock and Roll" and "Johnny Feelgood." I read an excellent review of _wcse_ when it came out, and the reviewer was talking about the un-PC (why would you wanna be PC anyway? I don't get it) lyrics of "Feelgood" and then pointed out that Liz's "I liked it..." was a ref. to "It's Only..." and how people often take Liz's lyrics too literally and in doing so, don't get the joke, or forget that "it's only rock and roll." Peter Washington from Oberlin -- you are so articulate and you seem to have a handle on "7 Veils" -- please continue your interpretation of it. I have been really interested in this song lately, as it's become apparent to me that it's one of Liz's best songs. The live performances of it are hilarious, sexy, and intense all at once -- I was just listening to this song earlier tonight and it gave me goosebumps. However, I still don't know *quite* what she's getting at with the lyrics... there's an article somewhere with Liz discussing the song briefly, and she says something about it that led me to believe that *she* felt like "Johnny," and the Salome character was someone in her life... like, the Biblical story was a metaphor for something that she felt at the time she wrote the song, but that she (Liz) was John the Baptist. Or am I just being retarded? Think about it, tell me what you come up with, and I'll find that article and post the passage I've mentioned. I forget who it was that asked about Liz's guitars and then thanked everyone for the various answers, but trust me -- Liz plays a Duo-Sonic and a Musicmaster. I am *positive.* There are other people who could step forward and testify if my word isn't good enough. I've got a long list of things I've realized about Liz & her music while smoking pot, and some of it is really interesting... but I'll save that for my stupid year-end post, which won't be as long as this one, I promise. Apologies for the length, but it's just one of those nights. Steve ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #113 ************************************