From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #111 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, December 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 111 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V1 #110 [Slopo@aol.com] quickie ["Cynthia Nagle" ] Hey Spaceeggy Katie, Deep Thoughts, and stuff [Craig King ] whitechocolatewhatever? [AngelLieb@aol.com] Dreams [Nicole Weisberg ] send ken money! [Peter Washington ] thirteen hundred dollars [thetick23@juno.com (james w barcus III)] scot litt is cool [thetick23@juno.com (james w barcus III)] Smorgasbord of tapes! [Lucas Miller Johnson ] sorry to post again! :( [Nicole Weisberg ] Re: thirteen hundred dollars [Jason Long ] southland CD [Melissa Leigh ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Liz in January 99 Seventeen, on the web and the Tracy debate [mhuisman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:38:21 EST From: Slopo@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #110 hey folks, i'm a quiet one (after all, it's the quiet ones you have to watch)... anyhow, I go to williams college, a small purple valley school in bumble*@$ mass. We usually get one or two concerts up here, and this time thanks in some small part to my suggestion (pleaing, begging, crying), Liz Phair is the one we are really pursuing. I was kinda hoping if any of you guys know of anyway to help the matter. I only went to her Roseland show (and thanks to the monsoon and traffic I missed the first hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).... I would love to see her. Any suggestions? procrastinating as you can see, krzys ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:59:53 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: quickie Gotta do a quickie response before going home to bed: Mantra Raffel: <> YES!!! You articulated this perfectly! (BTW, I am feeling this way RIGHT NOW. My eyes popped when I read your post and I had this feeling of crystal-clear realization.) To me, this is one of the best aspects of Liz's music, and a huge part of why I love it and identify with it so much. This feeling is contradictory. It's not PC. And yet *I* feel it, often. And if I do, then lots of other people must too. Liz gives voice to strange feelings that don't always make sense, but are THERE nonetheless. I thank you, Liz. Sexy moronic assholes find a place in the songs of Liz Phair! Curiouser and curiouser. Cindy "Well look at me, I'm frightening my friends" with my masochistic thoughts. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:13:40 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: Hey Spaceeggy Katie, Deep Thoughts, and stuff A couple of things. First of all: Hey Spaceeggy Katie, Just curious. You said that you were listening to The Doors the other day? I was just wondering how much of a Doors fan you are? Personally, their my all time favorite band. Also, There are two Liz songs that I can't stop listening to lately: "Shitloads Of Money" and "Dogs Of L.A." I don't know why, but I just really love those songs right now. And now it's time for..... Deep Thoughts by "The KingAdRock" Why is it that when a non-fan hears Liz for the first time they have this stupid ass look on their face like their thinking "what the hell is this?!" Why the do some people think that "Emotional Rescue" is a song that Liz wrote herself. Don't they know that it was written by the original bad boys of rock n roll, The Rolling Stones? Has anyone ever heard the song "I Can't Fight It" by Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers? Doesn't it totally sound like a song that Liz would write? (Actually, it sort of sounds like 6'1") Is there really any justice in the world when people like Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, and Alannis Morrisette can become superstars while someone like Liz can barely have an album to reach gold status? Well, those are my deep thoughts of the day. I'm up to my knees in video tapes, getting them all ready to ship out, so I better keep going. Catch ya all later! Craig "The KingAdRock" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:46:03 EST From: EXICON@aol.com Subject: 7 veils Hi everyone, first off, I do find this list very entertaining. Can anyone tell me what Liz means when in Dance of the 7 Veils she says "I know all about that ugly pilgrim thing? thanks Jeff :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:06:12 -0500 From: "Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" Subject: Replies <> < Hmmmm....might want to ask kindly. All those in favor of Jase continuing his > < I sure hope not! Not unless you have a belly piercing to show it off. From what I've seen, women criticize EVERYTHING about other women, especially behind their backs. Now excuse me while I climb into my asbestos bunker to wiat out the firestorm. Mikey C Va Beach ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:06:44 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: whitechocolatewhatever? <> Wow! And I thought I was hearing Bubba Gump, Bubba Gump. But then again, the movie came out after Girlysounds...so..... I also thought I was hearing Rub a Dub Rub a Dub....boy, I really need to listening when I'm awake or something. Ohki, I finally got my Rolling Stone magazine today and was kinda pissed as to what they wrote about Liz. In the section where they highlighted the biggest albums of the year, they said "whitechocolatewhatever." *smoke out of Katie's ears* And then as the caption read to a great picture, "Liz Phair, who is one bad mutha onstage." Sigh..... Now, news about the next single. A friend of mine told me that she heard on the radio a "new song" by Liz Phair yesterday. Of course, I get all jumpy and happy about it that I drilled her for about five minutes as to which song it was. If that didn't help, I started singing some songs for her and it was no use. The only thing she can recall of is it was a "happy sounding song." Oohhhhk! So the next thing I did was call the radio station she claimed that played this song. (garsh...don't I love calling the radio?!) I was talking to some happy radio DJ who said that they do have some of Liz's stuff, but didn't know what. "Call back after 1pm and I'll see what we can play for you." I did and it turned out I was talking to a different DJ and she said they didn't have anything. ARRRRRRGh! Thank goodness for my tape player! No wonder why I always listen to my tapes! Sigh...another thing, I had this really interesting conversation about Liz with the "before 1pm DJ," she said that Liz has a big cult following like Tori Amos. I'm like "Huh? What the hell are you talking about?!" So, I guess I really need to break my radio antennae to avoid having to listen to the radio again cuz all it does is piss me off whenever I hear Matchbox 20. More to contribute to the "stealing someone else's line" marathon: I forgot what the name of the Beatles' song I was listening to last night, but they sang "I'll be on my way," which is heard in Six Dick Pimp. Also, I heard Beatles' Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds on the radio on my way home from school today it reminded me a little bit of the WCSE song. Anyone else agree? Both of them name colors and whatnots. Oh yeah, edible things are mentioned I believe: "where rocking horse people eat marshmellow pies." Katie ();) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:27:09 -0500 (EST) From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: Dreams Hi all. This isn't (really) an attempt to promote my website, but I've had all these weird dreams in the past few nights with Liz in them, and rather than recount them on the mailing list, if you want to read about them, go to http://www.angelfire.com/ca/DontWalk/dreams.html. While you're there, go to the rest of my site. ;) Joking. sort of. Later! - -Nicole I Spy a May Queen http://www.angelfire.com/ca/DontWalk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:54:02 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Washington Subject: send ken money! Folks, today is Friday, December 11. That means you can only get your money to ken on time if you send it like priority tomorrow. Do so, please, if only out of compassion for ken because if he doesn't raise enough he's going to have to go to a shitload of trouble to refund everyone. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:15:38 -0500 From: thetick23@juno.com (james w barcus III) Subject: thirteen hundred dollars it seems hypocritical to me to talk about the evils of sellers of bootleg cd's and then contribute to a fund that is going to pay some dick 1,300 dollars for tapes.this "roommate" took advantage of the other 2 musicians. he sounds like a real capitalist and i'm sure he's already made other copies.so, i say to everyone on the list who complains about cd bootlegs being available and then gos ahead and buys them or participates in this project-if you're going to talk the talk, then walk the walk. i've bought 2 0r 3 bootlegs before(for less than 15$) and have no problem with it. some of you all act like they are the anti-christ. no one needs to be defended from them. if you don't want one then don't buy one. jamie- tending the fires that must be tended ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:20:50 -0500 From: thetick23@juno.com (james w barcus III) Subject: scot litt is cool one more thing, to the people that haven't complained about bootlegging on this list and are contributing 2 dollars, i say enjoy the recordings! they do sound incredible. jamie ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:04:15 -0600 (Central Standard Time) From: Lucas Miller Johnson Subject: Smorgasbord of tapes! > oh, and also, what is the significance of the #27? SHe uses it in Stratford > on GUy (27D) and in White bird (Gate 27) Both time she is refferring to a > plane/airport. The only thing I can think is that the # 27 just has the > right # of syllables or somehting to go with the song. Whatever. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Jenny Yo Jenny! For a long time I thought she was singing, "In 2070 I was behind the wing ...", and I think Liz (in her infinite wisdom) used those syllables so they could simultaneously represent both the seat number and the year she was in. :) I love science fiction! Hey KOA! Thanks for passing along the cool tapes! I am enjoying them, but alas, it is now time for me to pass them on. So if you're interested in hearing these compilation tapes compiled by Mr.E, just let me know! (They Rock!) AYE! Love, Lucas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:12:08 -0500 (EST) From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: sorry to post again! :( I was in an awful mood earlier...I mean bawling... and I decided to listen to some Liz really loud, which I usually don't do (listen loud, I mean. I want to save my hearing.) I was listening to "canary" and I noticed that htere was this white noise in the beginning that sounded like voices though. Ya know? Does anyone know what exactly this is? - -Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 18:57:50 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: thirteen hundred dollars At 04:15 PM 12/11/98 -0500, jamie wrote: > it seems hypocritical to me to talk about the evils of sellers of >bootleg >cd's and then contribute to a fund that is going to pay some dick 1,300 >dollars for tapes.this "roommate" took advantage of the other 2 >musicians. >he sounds like a real capitalist and i'm sure he's already made other >copies.so, i say to everyone on the list who complains about cd bootlegs >being available and then gos >ahead and buys them or participates in this project-if you're going to >talk the talk, >then walk the walk. i've bought 2 0r 3 bootlegs before(for less than 15$) >and have no problem with it. some of >you all act like they are the anti-christ. no one needs to be defended >from them. if >you don't want one then don't buy one. Okay, this is going to come off entirely wrong, but at this point, I really don't give a fuck. I've had to defend my position on the list and in response to private emails I've received several times now, and I just wish the subject would drop already (either that or maybe I should write a form letter-style response I can pull out whenever needed). However, I do feel that this, if not entirely addressed to me, is at least partially. And whenever someone calls me a hypocrite, you can bet I'm going to come out swinging. First of all, I really don't see my position as being hypocritical. Maybe I haven't made my thinking clear in my previous postings on this subject, so I'll spell it all out again. Ken purchasing these tapes is not the same fucking thing as buying bootleg CDs. These are entirely different things in my eyes, but apparently not to yours, so let me explain. Sure, this guy Ken is buying the tapes from is making a shitload of money, there's no doubt about that. I've never denied that once. The thing is, these tapes were being bidded for, and Ken managed to find out that one of the bidders is someone who is known to sell bootlegs. Ken's trying to make it so that no one has to pay ridiculous sums of money to get ahold of copies of this material, which as Liz fans, we're all naturally going to want to hear. And that's another thing, just because some of us don't want some bootlegger to profit from Liz's music, does that mean we should be unable to hear tapes such as these? I mean, fuck, we're as big of fans as anyone else: We go to the concerts, we buy all the albums and singles and compilations. We may not want to buy bootlegs, but we should still be able to hear these works by our favorite artist. So don't give me this "if you don't want one then don't buy one" stuff. Also, even if this guy (and he actually was the roommate of Stoley and Chasko, so I don't know why you felt the need to put the word roommate in quotations) has made copies of this material, what Ken is purchasing is the original studio tapes. Any copies this guy has made will not be of as high of quality. If they do find their way to the market as commercial bootleg CDs, they will be of lesser quality than the copies that will be distributed on this list. And another thought is that if these tapes are widely distributed, it will help to kill the potential market for the bootlegs. No one's going to be rushing out to buy what they can get for the cost of blanks and postage. Many mailing lists I've been on in the past have organized what are referred to as "Beat the Boots" tape trees, in which commercially-available bootlegs are distributed for the cost of blanks and postage so that anyone can get a copy of them for next to no cost, and they get to hear the music without having a bootlegger profit off the sale of that many more copies of that particular boot. Liz's fans are going to want to hear this material. I know that I certainly do. But I don't want everyone to have to pay $25 per CD to do it, when the music can be shared at cost, which is the way it should be. Now, another thing, while the commercial bootleggers are repulsive enough, it pissed me off even more to see people on the list engaging in such activities. Someone who proclaims to be a fan of Liz selling her bootlegs for $25 each and making a fucking killing? What kind of a fan is this? If this person was really a fan, they'd be willing to make copies at cost, like so many others of us do. Fuck, this guy doesn't even need to fucking work for a living. He can make all the money he needs ripping off Liz's fans, selling them music that should be shared for free. I've always encouraged tape trading and trees on the list -- that is how the music should be shared, one fan to another, and no one makes a dime. And another thing, this list does not exist for anyone to make their livelyhood off of it. Anyone who even considers doing such a thing can just fuck right off. This is a list for fans to share music, information and opinions, not to raise the money for next month's rent. And another thing about this Craig guy that I booted off the list for selling the CDs. He's also been spotted elsewhere selling Garbage, Ani DiFranco and Elliott Smith shows that he's taped. Is this guy even a fan of any of these artists, or does he just tape every band that comes through his town then racks up his sales? I'll tell you one thing, he didn't join this list until AFTER he taped Liz's Minneapolis show. His first post was one saying he had taped it. All of his posts afterward were just him pimping his product, like he's the fucking Home Shopping Channel. Never any other discussion of Liz or her music. Fuck, when he first started trying to sell copies of the _Secretly Timid_ bootleg, he didn't seem to even know anything about Girly Sound! Also, whether or not Ken purchased these tapes, they were going to be purchased by someone. This guy who's selling them was going to make his money no matter what. The thing is, with Ken getting the tapes, at least no one's going to have to pay to get copies. They are going to be treed on this list. No one's going to have to buy expensive bootlegs; all they will have to do is supply blanks and postage. And I have to say, I don't think it's such a bad thing to ask people to contribute to a fund that will enable Ken to get these tapes and for this to happen. I don't see how this makes me a hypocrite if I support this, which I completely do. Anyway, normally I try to go out of my way to make sure that even if my posts contain strong opinions, they really won't offend anyone. As the list owner, I try to stay neutral on everything and not really take a stand. This time I'm just letting loose. In a way, I do hope this doesn't some off wrong, but in another I just don't care. This really does feel good, like relievin' a headache (how's that for Liz content? ). Walking *my* walk (if you can imagine it, it's kinda like a swagger ), Jase ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ "I'm all I wanna be -- a walking study in demonology," - Courtney Love, "Celebrity Skin" ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:55:36 -0500 From: Melissa Leigh Subject: southland CD DO NOT USE SOUTHLAND CD! I thought I had screwed up my order (double ordered stuff?) and felt dumb, but now I'm getting other people's info (no credit info, but name and phone)and a cd is added to my account that she ordered. I have no clue what's going on and i wanted to warn everyone else. - ---melissa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:50:00 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: help with mirc Well I sent a message out two days ago but I don't see it posted on here.. been having 'puter problems...a couple items: Ken - your money is in the mail, finally - (yeah I'm a slacker) anyone - i want to chat on #wcse...I just d/l'd mIRC. is that the right program? what server do I need to connect to? I can't seem to find #wcse on any of them. also anyone - I missed the conclusion of Jase's encounter with liz. I read the first parts where he justs get ready to go up to her and...but I need the next installment(s). What ss # is it in or has he finished it yet? LIZ IN FLORIDA _ LETS MAKE IT HAPPEN !~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ also thanks to all who answered my question about what guitar Liz plays...lots of different answers! On a more progressive note.. I think I might be making some progress on my wife actually not hating Liz so much...while I was playing my guitar along to whipsmart, after it was over she said "her musics not so bad..if only she'd learn to sing on key"....hehe "thats part of Lizs' charm" I said....her "imperfect vocals". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:52:18 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: MrE Subject: 'we wish you q phairy christmas...' "when what to my wondering eyes should appear but a miniature sleigh and eight tiny liz phair" ho ho ho and run MrE the dog of l.a. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sir, I can assure you that it will never happen again" - --------------------------------------------------------Jeffery_Dahmer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 20:54:06 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: MrE Subject: attention mp3 scabs and scabettes >Abe's MP3 Finder 1.0 Free >Abe's Mp3 Finder - Search MP3:s on the >Internet. Type an artist name, hit the >search button and double click on the >songs that you want to download. more >info >http://mp3finder.ml.org/ i've downloaded but not yet unzipped...thought it might be of some interest... MrE the dog of l.a. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sir, i can assure you that it will never happen again"- - ----------------------------------------------------------Jeffery Dahmer- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:01:40 -0500 From: mhuisman Subject: Liz in January 99 Seventeen, on the web and the Tracy debate Hey again, A few liz things. First, She's mentioned in the January issue of Seventeen in the High Pressure High story. Its about New Trier High School, and shes mentioned about being a former student ('Liz Phair got her diploma here.')If you really just want to know the pg #, its 93 Second, I was surfing through www.alloyonline.com (a clothing company) and they have this trivia thing of the day, and one of the former questions was this 5/23/98 Name the female Liz Phair singer/songwriter girly_16@hotmail.com who before she was famous, recorded under the name "Girlysound". Awesome, huh??? Third, I could've sworn hearing Liz sing about someone named 'Tracy' in not one-but TWO of her songs....Girl's Room & Support System......who is this????? In SS, doesn't she go Tracy's such a stoopid bitch?? Anywayz, Katie.....FINALLY i got your tape out....I feel sooooo bad, I'm never like this with trades...The tape is awesome though, you'lll love it...(and the money, i'm sure will be an added bonus:-) Well, gotta go Marlie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:20:52 -0500 (EST) From: Nicole Weisberg Subject: Jason told me it's okay to post again... i apologize, though I'm sorry to post again today... maybe i should have made a list all day of what i wanted to say and then waited til the end of the day and had one post. But as it is, that ain't how i did it. Anyway... I rememberd the song someone was talking about a while ago that had a reference to another song. It's the line in "Johnny Feelgood" about "crimson and clover," but i don't remember what song that it parallels. When i was addressing this e-mail, i accidentally wrote smore.org. Like those graham cracker and chocolate and marshmallow things? Anyway. I apologize again for the volumes of posts i've made today. Later. - -Nicole ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:03:07 -0500 (EST) From: Sara MacKinnon Subject: FAMOUS PEOPLE IN SONGS > > I was just struck with an interesting idea. What references to famous > people/places/things does liz make in her songs. "Hurricane Cindy" was wriiten for/about Cindy Crawford, wasn't it? ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #111 ************************************