From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #110 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, December 11 1998 Volume 01 : Number 110 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V1 #109 ["Dolphin 95" ] Replies [Jason Long ] Replies [Jason Long ] Fantasize Tab [Ryan Hamilton ] my poll [Ascending to the Stars ] Boston Show and Miscellania ["Raffel, Mantra" ] wcse single requests [palik@ix.netcom.com] Re: Black Market White Baby Dealer [Meredith Robbins ] ooh, another interesting idea ["Jennifer Sayler" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 22:54:29 PST From: "Dolphin 95" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #109 >"A must-see," to quote some guys from Georgia. > >Mike Connolly >Va Beach Sorry, but that would really be "A must" to quote some guys from Georgia quoting the liner notes to "The Joy of Knowing Jesus" fromthe Revelaires... Sorry, but "Voice of Harold" is one of my favorite R.E.M. songs. It whips "Seven Chinese Brothers" in the ass! - -Jeff *************************************************** All I know is what I say is what I mean -Jane Jensen *************************************************** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:55:06 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Replies Hey everyone, Sorry if I've been a little quiet on the list lately. I know a lot of people are waiting for me to post the next part of my Toronto tale, and I'll try to do so within the next few days. I never thought it would take me so long to write it all out; hopefully it won't take much longer. Anyway, here are a few quick replies to some recent posts to the list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:58:27 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Replies [Oops, accidentally sent this before I was ready to before...] Hey everyone, Sorry if I've been a little quiet on the list lately. I know a lot of people are waiting for me to post the next part of my Toronto tale, and I'll try to do so within the next few days. I never thought it would take me so long to write it all out; hopefully it won't take much longer. Anyway, here are a few quick replies to some recent posts to the list. Andy asked: >does anyone know if Matador's going to release any Liz singles with >additional, otherwise unreleased songs on them? I exchanged emails with Gerard Cosloy (co-president of Matador) about this very subject not too long ago, and he told me that Matador currently has no plans for a new commercial single, but that that could change. Maybe it will happen if "Johnny Feelgood" takes off when it's released to radio (still tentatively scheduled to happen next month). Let's keep our fingers crossed. Moe, on how to get off the list: >Just announce that you have bootleg CD's of shows to sell for $100 each and >Jason will unsub you asap haha. ;) I have to admit, I laughed when I read this. Maybe I'll develop a reputation as a bit of a hard-ass yet. ;) And yes, that would be a very quick way of getting off the list. Moe again, this time to Sara: >I've been on 6ft1 too and I think the main difference is that there are >much more people on SS. It's more diverse and maybe a little more off-topic >but I don't mind that personally and as I receive the digest, I don't care if >the same person posts several times a day. There are substantially more people on the list now then when I was running it manually, although even towards the end, we did have around 700 subscribers. I imagine that part of why the list has grown so much is that a lot of people may have lost interest in Liz during the four year gap between albums, only to have it rekindled when _whitechocolatespaceegg_ was released and the tour started, and they have since joined the list. Also, the album does seem to have brought a lot of new fans into the fold. This really isn't a bad thing; I think the more people there are who enjoy Liz's music, the better. I guess that the only drawback is that some people now have a hard time keeping up with the list, since the amount of traffic is quite higher now than at any time in the past. It's a lot greater than what many are likely used to. Also, there are a few drawbacks to the automated set-up, such as administrative requests making it to the list, messages being posted multiple times -- things that I was always able to filter out of the 6'1" digests as I compiled them. So, yes, 6'1" did have a few advantages in that regard. I don't think the request for people to post only once or twice a day is an unfair one. If people post a lot of times, it does make the digests bigger because of all of the extra message headers and people's signature files. At the same time, I do know myself that sometimes it's hard to remember everything you want to include in one post, so you end up posting again about something you've left out. The size of the digests isn't an issue for most of us, as we all have to download all of our mail messages, but for those on AOL (probably about one-fifth of the list members), the mail set-up is different, and any messages over a certain size have to be downloaded as attachments before they can be read. If any AOL users are having problems because of this, the digests are archived on the web, and you can read them there if need be. The URL is . >Can we know exactly what the max length is? Not that I send monster posts >but you always say don't go over the max length and you don't say how much >it is exactly. I'm just curious. Thanks :) The maximum length for posts to the list is 7K, although I believe I can change this, if need be. It does ensure that entire digests can't be reposted in people's replies, as the digests always exceed the 7K limit. I know that I've had to forward a few messages that have bounced due to exceeding the maximum length (usually my own!), but for the most part no one ever posts anything quite that long. Regarding the current thread about songs where Liz incorporates either lyrics, melodies or music from other sources, this was a topic of discussion earlier this year as well. Catherine Molanphy compiled an extensive "borrow" list, which covered most of the instances that have been mentioned so far, as well as many others (such as how "Sometimes A Dream (Is What Makes You A Slave)" draws on the Jesus and Mary Chain's "Head On"). Hopefully Catherine will repost this at some point; if not, I can try searching through all of the 6'1" digests I have archived to find it. Suzanne asked the following about "Beginning to See the Light": >Is it a cover? No, it's an original. Liz performed it on a few radio broadcasts during the last months of 1994, during a promotional tour for _Whip-Smart_ where she would go around to various stations and play live on-air. On at least two of these broadcasts that I can think of, Liz said that it was a new song that she had just written a couple of months prior. Other then-new songs performed frequently during this time were "Hurricane Cindy" and "Wasted." I do have to say that "Beginning to See the Light" is a favorite of mine, and I've always wondered why it hasn't been officially released in any form. To me, it kind of seems like this was the first step along the way to some of the songs on the new album, such as "Go On Ahead," which is even more unflinchingly honest, yet still hopeful. Anyway, enough out of me -- time to get some sleep. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 05:46:37 -0500 From: Ryan Hamilton Subject: Fantasize Tab Hi, Fantasize. I figured out the chords for this charming little number last night so I thought I'd post them here since I didn't see them anywhere else. In descending order; G Bm F D(sus 4) D 3 2 1 3 2 3 3 1 3 3 4 4 2 2 2 5 4 3 0 0 5 2 3 x x 3 2 1 x x the change between the two D notes is a bit quicker than the others. listen to the song to get the strumming right but that's it. There's one split second note change around the 46sec mark that I can't figure out but if anyone can, or if you think this is wrong, do tell. enjoy, - -ryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:38:51 -0500 From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: my poll gee.. i didnt' actuallly expect people to respond it was really more of me venting a rhetorical question.. i especially didnt' mean to offend any of the guys here.. which i think i may have inadventantly done, and if so, i apologize. uh.. that's about it... for liz content, see sig oh, ken, i just sent you more money... (:ruthie:) - -- *******Deceive*******Inveigle*******Obfuscate******* "Wild and unwise, I wanna be mesmerizing, too" "So I hope you all will see, there just isn't a place here for me" --Liz Phair "I'd like to say it was great while it lasted, but I won't lie" "With you here with me I could be happy ... I miss who I used to be" --Jen Trynin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:56:54 -0500 From: "Raffel, Mantra" Subject: Boston Show and Miscellania I've been reading for a while so I thought I'd post and say hello. I went to the Boston show last week and was blown away! It was my first Liz show ever, though I have been in love with her music for about 5 years. (Since I first heard Flower and had to pick my jaw up off the floor). When she played Flower at the show, I was standing behind these two frat-boy types who had obviously never heard the song before (or anything other than Polyester Bride, probably) and they kept grinning and hitting each other and saying, "Dude, did you hear that." I was glad that Liz enunciated every word. I felt some serious sexual tension in the room during that song. Anyone else? I've been thinking about something and was wondering what other people's thoughts were: I'm sure you have all noticed how Liz has lots of themes that show up over and over again in her music. My favorite is how she captures that feeling of hate and lust mixed together. That kind of feeling that someone is a real jerk and you know you should hate them but you are attracted to them at the same time. For example: "You act like you're fourteen years old. Everything you say is so obnoxious, funny, true and mean. I want to be your blowjob queen" and "I never realized I was so dirty and dry Till he knocked me down, started dragging me around in the Back of his convertible car... And I liked it..." I know there are lots of other examples. I think this is one of the common threads between Liz and some of the other ballsy female artists that I love. Like Ani Difranco in her song "Used to You" off of the Puddle Dive album, she says, "you like me so you try and make me feel like shit. I think it's kind of funny, yeah I kind of enjoy it." For me, this is one of the things that separate the true strong female artists from the wanna-be's (like Alanis, who sure knows how to dish it out, but doesn't acknowledge that other side of the coin). Can anyone think of other Liz examples or know any other female artists that capture this feeling (almost) as well as her? Later, Mantra "Reality is just a crutch for people who can't deal with drugs." --Lily Tomlin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:44:52 -0600 From: palik@ix.netcom.com Subject: wcse single requests I know that it will probably never happen, but I really hope Matador would put out "Shitloads of Money" as the next single.... Let Leno and Letterman get a load of that one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 98 17:02:58 -0500 From: Meredith Robbins Subject: Re: Black Market White Baby Dealer Katie Brown wrote: >ok, on the thread that some of liz's songs have borrowed music.... Black >market White Baby Dealer is so based on "My Bonny" a song from the 1920's >or 1930's that i think the beatles may have done at some point. when liz >sings "clean fresh white babies for me" it is to the tune of "bring back my >bonny to me". I think the song's older than the 1920s or 1930s. More than just "clean fresh white babies" part is to the same tune; "My Bonny" goes My bonny lies over the ocean My bonny lies over the sea My bonny lies over the ocean Please bring back my bonny to me Bring back my bonny to me and it precisely parallels My black market white baby dealer Is hunting around overseas My black market wite baby dealer Brings back clean fresh white babies to me Clean fresh white babies to me Okay, not that you care. But it does go with the whole child-like theme of the Girlysounds (which becomes really prominent with the nursery rhyme tunes and jump rope beats of Whip-Smart). We used to sing "My Bonny" at Montessori school! I just love how Liz sings these sweet little songs in a sweet little voice and totally raunchifies them. Meredith +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ "At the risk of sounding pompous, I guess I would align it [playing with Tin Machine in 1991] with deconstructionism. The point made by the French in the Sixties taht we are working our way towards a society that is deeply involved with hybridization and contradictory information almost to the point where contradiction simply ceases to exist...." --David Bowie eclectricity Exile in Netville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:25:19 -0600 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: stuff Going with my earlier thread of songs that borrow stuff, in "sometimes a dream (is what makes you a slave)" liz uses that bubble gum, bubble gum in a dish, how many pieces do you wish.... This is not a song, but a rhyme that kids use to pick who is it. NEwayz, just thought I would add that! =) oh, and also, what is the significance of the #27? SHe uses it in Stratford on GUy (27D) and in White bird (Gate 27) Both time she is refferring to a plane/airport. The only thing I can think is that the # 27 just has the right # of syllables or somehting to go with the song. Whatever. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "All the fear has left me now, I'm not frightened anymore" - Sarah McLachlan- http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:30:41 -0600 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: ooh, another interesting idea I was just struck with an interesting idea. What references to famous people/places/things does liz make in her songs. Here are two to start with. Julia Roberts-Chopsticks And she uses "speak softly and use that big stick" a reference to the quote by ......Teddy Roosevelt (?) - Do You Love Me ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "All the fear has left me now, I'm not frightened anymore" - Sarah McLachlan- http://www.liz-phair.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:43:56 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #109 << Yesterday at work I was listening to Liz on my walkman(I always bring wcse, ws and eig w/ me to listen to) and a friend popped either eig or wcse in his to listen to (I didnt know this)...his comment to me was "man that liz phair sucks"....I just smiled because I know better. I feel like she only appeals to a few select persons.... thats us folks. >> Exactly! My sister was the same way with me and she was the one who introduced me to Liz! Sheesh! <> Hmmmm....might want to ask kindly. All those in favor of Jase continuing his story: stand up and yell, "AYE!" <<"My Bonny" a song from the 1920's or 1930's that i think the beatles may have done at some point>> Yuppers, you find the Beatles singing this on their first Anthology. It was recorded back in their Tavern days. <> Terry, Tracy, Tiffany...hmmm interesting. <> I sure hope not! Not unless you have a belly piercing to show it off. <> I dunno, not unless you want to rush out to slcd.com and get a copy of Polyester Bride, which also has the radio edit on it. $6 for the cd. Well, when listening to the Doors today something popped into my head that's sorta related to Liz. In their "The End" song when the part of "the west is the best" came up, it made me think of Liz's Go West. I dunno. Have spaceeggy day, Katie ();) Geez! I've noticed that I wink a lot ();) and Ruthie grins a lot hmmm.. Oh yeah, AYE! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:42:49 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Washington Subject: Boston show Does anyone know if there's going to be a bootleg of the 12/1 Boston show going around in the near future? I've always wanted Liz to do more covers, and she did two in this show (plus I like both the songs--I know, it's not cool to like the Monkees, they're cheesy, but cheesy isn't necessarily bad). If you or someone you know taped the show or you've heard anything about it, please e-mail me privately--I'm way behind on reading these digests. Peter ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #110 ************************************