From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #77 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, November 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Boston dates? [Breadnb@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V1 #75 [PokaDot420@aol.com] Nashviille ["Jennifer Sayler" ] DC show? ["Chris" ] no more lurking [Katie Brown ] sessions at west 54th [BBelbis@aol.com] fundamentalist womenfolk [BBelbis@aol.com] liz on the radio [BBelbis@aol.com] other interesting things [Ascending to the Stars ] C'mon let's get happy [AngelLieb@aol.com] Please read [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Random replies [Brian Cooper ] Fat Bottomed Girls [Brian Cooper ] Desert Island ["Jorge (George) Cooper" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:50:51 EST From: Breadnb@aol.com Subject: Re: Boston dates? <> I haven't heard anything about the 11/30 show, but the 12/1 show is the WBCN Xmas rave, and you can check out the WBCN site for tix (http://www.wbcn.com) all it says is that they went on sale this past saturday ($17) and you can get them at all NEXT outlets. (617) 423 NEXT. I don't know anything 'bout availability though.. I hope there are still some left 'cause I highly doubt that my mom took any notice of the note I've had magneted (is that a word?) to the 'fridge since last friday, despite yesterday being my birthday. Parents can be so blind. - -Lins- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:56:31 EST From: PokaDot420@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #75 i must appaligize (im not the best speller) for my stupid post, i dont know how i actually sent out the old tour dates, but somehow i did. im very puzzled by this, i could have sworn i sent the new ones, i must have got my old & new mail mixed up. it was my my confused braincells fighting again, but anyways im sure everybody already has seen the new dates but i figure ill post them anyways to try to redeam myself. well anyways ill be at the atlanta show (i love the roxy) glowing with happiness because liz will be singing to me on the day after my birthday, but ill be wearing more than my birthday suit (unlike alaniss), sorry i know that was a terrible joke, i just couldnt controle that one. personally i think more artists (prefrably good ones) should join her and do their videos in the buff also, just think of the possibilities. well anyways just a small thought from my smokey brain ~sara* "she knocks me out when she acts so strange" New Liz Phair tour dates have just been announced! 12/03 Electric Factory Philadelphia 12/04 9:30 Club D.C. 12/06 The Ritz Raleigh 12/07 328 Performance Hall Nashville 12/08 The Roxy Atlanta http://hollywoodandvine.com/lizphair - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:07:22 -0600 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: Nashviille Hey all, I just called 328 Performance Hall and the confirmed that Liz Phair is playing on Dec. 7!! Woo hoo! Thanks to all those people who are happy for me, I know I bitched a lot about her not coming here. Keep hope alive Katie!! ANyways I am still looking to meet some list people at the show, I know there must be somebody else here from nashville!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "I wanna be cool, tall, vulnerable, and luscious" - Liz Phair http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/lizphair.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:39:00 -0500 From: "Chris" Subject: DC show? > 12/04 9:30 Club D.C. I just tried to order tickets from ticket bastard, and they said "The Meters" were playing the 9:30 on 12/4. - -Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:43:42 -0500 From: Katie Brown Subject: no more lurking hi listers, just a brief first post.... sara Mack we Bostonians are so lucky! I'm still high from avalon 10/6 and she's coming back for more...I'll try not to be paparazzi and take pictures of her in the cab driving away, although they came out pretty good...heehee. I have a loft in the south end, ruthie and I are gonna hook up before the show....Nicole? drew? anyone else? (drew-call (617)423-NEXT for tickets in case you haven't gotten that response yet) also, Boston show on 11/30 so Katie the crafty Florida spaceegg and I were writing back and forth about gifts, who couldn't use a Liz phair pen? I was thinking about making ornaments from the wsce stickers from matador. about me, KB: I'm 24, from Chicago, I've loved Liz since guyville... I met her in a laundromat in wicker park when I was in high school, she was doing laundry, I ran in to ask her if she was herself which she was and we left it at that. my cousin was a close friend of Jim Elison and saw Liz occasionally but never when I went out with him. :( At the Rock For Choice in Chicago July '94 Liz was the headliner after Veruca Salt and other female groups and this was the first time I saw Liz live.... she looked like she would rather have been anywhere else in the world. The crowd was rough and she asked them to calm down... then said, "I'm going to do my encore now, ok?" she looked so pissed she was shaking. played one more song, I can't even remember what it was, then left... I thought I would never see her live again because she it seemed like she hated it so much. That's why this tour is so outrageous! The October show I saw was so amazing.... watching her dance around, telling jokes and loving it all. so I've lived in Boston six years, now I live alone in a loft with my Siamese cat, Lavender. all of my furniture is purple, I can't get enough purple in any area of my life. when I look back at the days when I'd take off for weeks to tour with the dead, I can't believe I am now working for the Mayor's office in Boston! I'm sure some people I know think I'm a sell-out but I'm just an office worker trying to keep affordable after-school programs in the Boston Public Schools. I'm getting so into welfare reform and child care which are important to me.... but I still think politics and government are a pain in the ass. mine, daily. I love the Liz sites, Meredith, I have art for you! love jenny's themes, ken's mesmerizing and robbie's slick divide. and special thanks to jase for runningn the list. sorry to blab, no more lurking for me. everyone have a great weekend! KB *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&* "temper my hatred with peace, weave my disgust into fame, and watch how fast they run to the flame" "home is very ordinary i know i was born to lead a double life" LP ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:01:04 EST From: BBelbis@aol.com Subject: sessions at west 54th hey everyone, sorry for another post, but just wondering if anyone knows if liz's show at "sessions" has been scheduled to air yet....i'm getting restless. please email me privately if you have any info. thanks in advance, brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:01:03 EST From: BBelbis@aol.com Subject: fundamentalist womenfolk >>>my girlfriend forbids me to listen to Liz in our >apartment, and even the mention of her calls down the thunder! Anybody >else experience this? What do I do, she is VERY jealous?! It seems my >girlfriend would settle for being cool, 5'2, guitar playing, and the >object of a big crush on my part. Subject: other interesting things okay, since there is still some question, here is how to order tickets for liz's 12/1 show at the avalon in boston, with big bad voodoo daddy and love and rockets (?), part of the wbcn xmas rave: tickets are available thru NEXT: call 617-423-NEXT 24-7 for automated service. call 617-423-6000 for a real person, but the hours are really limited ( i think they are in the afternoon) if anyone gets any info on the 11/30 show, PULEAZE!!!! let me know asap, cause i would really like to go to both.. then i will have been to 5 liz shows... and i'm considering begging my parents to fly me to dc again.. i wouldn't even have to miss any school this time. on another note, i just got the kristin hersh cd "strings"... its AMAZING!!! if you like kristin hersh, it is a must-have, if you've never heard of kristin hersh, you should go get an album, and, well... everyone should give this a listen.. i saw it was on MR. E's library or whatever tape.. your ghost is an amazing song.. with michael stipe on backup vocals.. wonderful wonderful.. alright, i am going to go make my legal cheat sheet for my physics exam tomorrow.. i love a liberal arts education :) (:ruthie:), the nerdy amherst girl who thinks its fun to stalk liz... - -- *******Deceive*******Inveigle*******Obfuscate******* "Wild and unwise, I wanna be mesmerizing, too" "So I hope you all will see, there just isn't a place here for me" "All the stars up in heaven were rushed by an angel, to see the light of your face better" --Liz Phair "I'm in love with the world through the eyes of a girl who's still around the morning after" --Elliott Smith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:14:34 EST From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: C'mon let's get happy Gee, why do I have this song in my head? I haven't watched this show in ages! I better watch it sometime on Nick at Nite. Anyhoo, updates on my page. Did the gallery. More to come! So hold your horses! Oh yeah, when is Sessions coming around? I'm dying to see it! Having a mess of fun as usual! Katie ();) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:44:08 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Please read Hey everyone, Usually I'm fairly easy-going as the owner of this mailing list, but at this time, I would like to make a few requests of everyone: 1. If you have multiple email accounts, please remember to post from the one you use to subscribe to the list. Otherwise your messages will just bounce to me and will not make it to the list until I have a chance to forward them. 2. Do not send unsubscribe requests to the list. This sends your message to the list itself, and quite frankly, there's nothing that anyone can do to help you. Please follow the instructions for unsubscribing as they appeared in the welcome message you received when you first joined the list. If you no longer have this message, you can find the information on the web at . Or, if you're really desperate, email me privately and I'll remove you from the list myself. Just don't clutter the list with administrative requests -- you'll just end up frustrating the members of the list who have to read them, and you'll also end up a little frustrated yourself to find that you're still subscribed to the list. 3. Do not send HTML-encoded messages to the list. You may be unaware that you are doing this, as the message will look normal to you. However, not all mail readers can handle this type of mail (for example, those using Unix shells). These messages do bounce from the list for a reason, and once again, won't make it through until I have a chance to forward them myself after deleting the HTML content. If you are using any mail program built into a web browser (IE, Netscape, etc.), make sure your options are set for 'plain-text' only. 4. Please use common sense when posting. For example, if your signature file is longer than your message itself, please do not include it. Also, be responsible when quoting from previous digests. Include just enough so that people can see what you are responding to and can easily follow the thread, but do not quote excessively or unnecessarily. Whatever you do, DO NOT quote the entire previous digest -- common sense should dictate that no one really needs to read the entire previous digest again. These messages are always too long for the listserve to handle and will only bounce to me anyway, but if they were to go through, you can bet a lot of people would be annoyed by this needless cluttering of the list. I'm sorry if this comes off as being a little harsh -- I really hate playing the bad guy, but it seemed that a refresher on list etiquette was needed. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:04:48 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: tkreusler@columbiaresearch.com Subject: Response I certainly wasn't expecting so much backlash to my V1 #71 post (Jennie, et. al); but I do feel the need to defend myself... where do you get off dissing her [Alanis] for the size of her butt? Where do I "get off?" I don't - as far as Alanis is concerned. I wasn't "dissing" Alanis for the size of her ass...I was only voicing my displeasure at her obtruding manner in the video. Also, I don't understand how you can conclude that I hold women "to some impossibly high liz phair-esc standard" - one's character should not be judged on the basis of a single (misconstrued) statement. TMK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:21:18 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Doug" Subject: I'd kiss Alanis's arse anytime What's wrong with Alanis's arse? Personally I'd love to spend a few hours, having a good grope, at it....still we all have our own personal fantisies... But I guess when you've sold 20 million, billion, zillion records, you're entitled to run around arse naked in you're videos....you're entitled to jet around in you're own private jet...you're entitled to snort kilo's & kilo's of coke...you're entitled to fuck all day and night... Bet poor Alanis, really wishes she was soom cool hip alternative/indie chick selling 10000 records a year, living in some shithole...then again maybe not... Why is WCSE, such an unremarkable record? I don't undestand it....there's just nothing much, happening there...guess I'll just have to wait another 4years for a follow up....Oh well, at least P.J Harvey's back on top form. Does anyone out there remember an American singer/songwriter called 'Wendy Maharry'...she released a record here (U.K), about 10 years ago...and since then nothing...pity. P.S So 'Chopsticks' is about doing shagging doggy style!!! Well geeeeez, here was me thinking it was a bitter tirade, about the destruction of our planet, and the depletion of the ozone layer...Wheeeeew HOT STUFF!...that is a shock to the system...don't think I'll, be getting much sleep tonight...you know? Doug. Guess, this is where I should put a clever/smart/sexy, quotation from WCSE....trouble is there aren't any, so fuck it, won't bother. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:50:00 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Suzanne Walsh Subject: Couple of things... OK, first of all, thanks to Jennie Scheinbach who FINALLY said something negative about TMK's comments on Alanis. I was sitting quietly, thinking that other people would do the yelling but nobody did! People actually agreed with him! I do not consider myself an alanis fan, but I really admire her for doing that video. I don't particularly like the song but what I admire is that she did the video in the nude, *and doesn't care that her body isn't PERFECT* It's about time that people accept that models don't reflect the way real women look. Alanis is a real woman, with real curves. OK, I'm done. Second, I really really really hope that Liz keeps the concert dates the same cuz I bought two Greyhound tickets the day before I heard about all this postponing stuff and they are non-refundable... Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:55:06 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Rita L. Mcconnell" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #62 Hi!! I just want to ask one question. See Liz Phair is coming to town but I don't know how much the tickets are going to cost. So if someone can tell me how much she usuallys charge for I would appreciate it. DOT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 21:59:18 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: tkreusler@columbiaresearch.com Subject: REM/GREEN Nicole (nweisber@emerald.tufts.edu) wrote: I don't see that 4/R thing on my Green CD cover. Help? Sorry to hear you're having trouble with this...do you really go to Tufts? Just kidding, sorry again... Yes, it's the Green cover insert - hold it in a strong light and tilt it back and forth - the 4s should appear "over" the Rs. Another correlation to this is on the back cover of the CD case - the songs are numbered 1,2,3,R,5,6... Alternatively, find a boy (good conversation piece, no?) at school who has the disc for help. Maybe your CD is too new or defective in some way, although I doubt it. TMK P.S. Don't you love "World Leader Pretend?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:22:24 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: tkreusler@columbiaresearch.com Subject: comments, debates Sina Ziegler wrote: Is it just me or does anyone else out there dislike ANY Johnny song? Sorry, Johnny Feelgood is my favorite from WCSE and I also love Johnny Sunshine. But I do agree that Dance of the Seven Veils is not the greatest song. My least favorite from WCSE is Love is Nothing (the twangy guitar solo in Girl's Room saved it from "least favorite" distinction). On the Chopsticks debate: I really think that the lyric means "doggy-style," as others have said... I have a few reasons: 1. "Do it" almost always means just "sex" in lyrics... 2. The use of the word "way" sounds sexual - as in "I like the 'way' we're 'do[ing]' it," or "do you like 'it' this 'way?'" etc. 3. "Fuck and watch" is a simultaneous phrase - and definitely conducive to doggy-style sex (um...so I've heard). If it had been "fuck THEN watch," I would agree with your friend, Liz. He said he liked to do it backwards And I said that's just fine with me That way we can fuck and watch tv Anyway, I'm analyzing this WAY too much and I will stop now. Boston folk: I am SO jealous that you get to see Liz AGAIN this soon! What gives? What's your secret? TMK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:57:21 +1100 From: Brian Cooper Subject: Random replies Briefly de-lurking, as I hardly find the time to read all these digests. MrE... >regretfully absent from the definitive MrE post is Maria Mckee as a >favorite. if you've not acquired a copy of 'life is sweet' you're >collection is incomplete... I couldn't believe your obvious omission from your original favourite artists list. I could have slapped you for that. Nice save. And from Cynthia Nagle... >Does anyone else think it's pretty cool that Liz likes Madonna's Ray of >Light album? I don't have it, but what I've heard I really like I'd always pretty much despised Madonna's previous work. With her current album, I just kept hearing from non-Madonna fans how good it really was. The first time I heard Ray Of Light, I wasn't paying attention to who was singing it and I was completely blown away when I found out it was Madonna. Needless to say, I went out and bought it after that and was impressed myself. That doesn't mean I'm gonna go out and buy her back catalogue, but Ray Of Light is a welcome departure from her previous work. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:03:30 +1100 From: Brian Cooper Subject: Fat Bottomed Girls Apologies to Queen fans, but this Alanis thread has me thinking this song. I'll clear it up from the start, I don't think Alanis has a large butt, I just used that subject to get your attention. >From: Naomi Wright >stand for if you honestly believe that because alanis happens >to have some curves and a healthy figure and an ample ass >she shouldn't be allowed to be her natural self. it is sad and >you are one of the reasons women have such self esteem >problems and feel they need to be built like a fashion model >to be worthy. get a grip and learn to love others for who they >are and not how they look. you will be a happier person! : ) Thank you Naomi for putting things so eloquently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Alanis' form, as it is closer to normal, average people than any of these models will ever be. Then we get this contribution from Jimmy, >From: jimmy >Subject: it's not about ALANIS >i wrote: ><<< yikes.. and people wonder why anorexia and bulimia exist... >>> > >then MrE responded: >>and jimmy, what in the hell are you talking about? is alanis responsible >>for rampant eating disorders? just lookin for a diet's all... On a sarcastic note, I can understand Alanis being responsible for people throwing up, but anyone who thinks she is fat has unrealistic ideals. Jimmy goes on to talk about the waif models and I agree with him that it is a very sad thing to see. Naturally scrawny women, starving themselves to fit an image that is unrealistic is just plain sick. It would be amazing to see if any of these models were capable of having children, as I would be surprised if they could even ovulate. That is what is unhealthy. Then we get this jewel... >From: "Valerie J. Barry" >what if liz gained forty pounds? would it affect how you felt about her? I think if that was to happen and some people felt that they didn't like Liz anymore because of it, that would be their loss. It would also point out how superficial these people really were. Speaking of Jewel, I couldn't believe it when people were suggesting she was fat. I also once commented how Tori Amos looked much better with a few extra pounds on her for her current album. A couple of people went ballistic, but I feel sad for them. Tori looks so much happier and healthier these days. As for a post-Titanic Kate Winslet, she is just so damn tasty. Then we get this from Moe... >From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr >*shrug* I hate it when people are judged on what they look like. Damned >society brainwashing people with its stupid standards of beauty. Fuck that! > >MrE: >>and jimmy, what in the hell are you talking about? is alanis responsible >>for rampant eating disorders? > >She is not but the people/media trying to convince you that if you don't >look a certain way then you don't fit, those are responsible. You really nailed it there Moe, it is the media that are wholly responsible for these attitudes. Then Michael Connolly replies to Naomi with... >From: "Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" >And you thought you were just guilty of bad taste when in fact you're >solely responsible for the low self-esteem of every woman in America. > Shame on you!!! It's this sort of narrow minded attitude that is wholly responsible for women starving themselves to fit an unrealistic image. I don't think Naomi is the one with the problem with self-esteem, as she has a realistic view of the world. There are so many good people in the world of all shapes, sizes and colours that it is wrong to dismiss them if they don't fit your ideals. You'll never know what you're missing out on. If anybody cares, I am an average, everyday male, who appreciates average, everyday women. That's enough of me wasting your bandwidth.... Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:52:00 -0600 From: "Jorge (George) Cooper" Subject: Desert Island The following sexual references have been inserted for someone on the list with a penchant for dark humor and biting satire: 1) MrE, you are a strange animal. But I like it. You are quite the catcher in the rye and have obviously spent a lot of time on the couch. I have some ink blots for you. However, that tape (Not For The Weak) looks tasty. 2) Katie, I'm in for two EIG posters. Can you talk the guy down? 3) Rev. Jim, Deep Ellum Live is nothing special, just a big bar. There are no seats. But it does allow ardent Liz fans to take a firm grasp on the front row. If enough of us get there early, we'll be eye to knee with Liz. Dallas tickets are not yet on sale. We're gasping and waiting for December to unfold. 4) Hey - - Jason Hotpins with the girlfriend jealous of Liz. My ex-girlfriend accepted the fact that Liz was my favorite. She laughed at the frankness of the lyrics and got off on "Flower" and "South Dakota." Tell your girlfriend it's only rock n roll. If I may be so bold, it sounds like an insecurity because you find someone else sexy. Hang in there. It's not like Liz is coming over to your place tonight. 5) To Yoon and Robert Hart, I also love the Replacements. "Tim" and "Pleased To Meet Me" are my bibles. And Yoon, you are not the oldest person on the list. 6) Michael Connolly, thanks for the Alfred Hitchcock device. I'll look for those McGuffins next time I see Rear Window and Vertigo, two of my favorites. 7) Liz fans, what five albums would you take to a desert island? You would never be rescued so they better have staying power. Here are mine: 1) Liz -- Exile in Guyville 2) The Replacements - - Tim 3) Bob Dylan - - Blood On The Tracks 4) The Clash - - Sandinista! 5) The Smiths - - First Album Thank you phairy much, Jorge in Dallas ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #77 ***********************************