From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #62 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, October 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 062 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Phair.. Columbus OH [DinosaurJr@aol.com] [none] [~Dana~ ] WTD: Tape Tree Administrator ["JZ" ] Johnny Feelgood [Sarah.David@washcoll.edu (Sarah David)] Re: support-system-digest V1 #61 [jganz@POMONA.EDU] All the Phag Phans/Life's RIch Pageant [Dan ] POE - NON LIZ. [Dan ] M-16 vs F-16 [Ascending to the Stars ] Concert Tour Correcton ["Jenks, Jason" ] Liz's family [Paradise79@aol.com] New Liz Phair Tour Dates! [PokaDot420@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V1 #61 ["Al" ] Liz in Lawrence, KS [Dermich@aol.com] New Orleans Gig ["Kerry Black" ] a few things [David Weich ] Whip-Smart [Emerald314@aol.com] a characterization ["Chris DeLisle" ] Brush with Fame ["Phelan, Molly" ] video [Jeffrey Larson ] Phan types- Leslie's question ["Phelan, Molly" ] looking at liz [klaytonix@juno.com (klayton j curtis)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:17:38 EST From: DinosaurJr@aol.com Subject: Phair.. Columbus OH well, i am a new subscriber to the list. woo-hoo! that's cool somebody is from columbus.. (i am from dayton). i went to bernie's a couple of weeks ago. i was fortunate enough to finally catch liz on this tour. i saw her in DC at the 9:30 club. other than the slide show, which got kinda old after a while, it was a good time. i was so happy to see her do a great selection of songs from exile. btw - that's my favorite album of all-time. well, i thought i'd say hello & make my introduction. - -teri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:42:03 -0500 (EST) From: ~Dana~ Subject: [none] >>>Thanks for the person who posted Matador's email. They sent me their catalog >>>along with a Liz Phair sticker. I think I'll just keep it in the jewel case >>>of WCSE for now. I only have one and I guess I want to keep it as a >>>collector's item. oooh, what was that address? i must have overlooked it. thanks : ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:31:31 -0600 From: "JZ" Subject: WTD: Tape Tree Administrator Hi there. Anyway, I'm looking for someone who has either administered a tape tree, has knowledge of how to run one and has the time to do one to spread some music around. Quite honestly, I don't have the time to do it and would like to share with the group some stuff that I have - if there's even an interest. Anyone interested mail me at the address below. BTW, I'm a straight guy who like's LP's music because it's good music - oh yeah, the lyrics are pretty amusing as well. Also, it would have been great to hear "Turning Japanese" in Chicago. thanks. Jose' jzamudio@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: 30 Oct 98 01:37:40 EST From: Sarah.David@washcoll.edu (Sarah David) Subject: Johnny Feelgood - --- You wrote: For example, a lot of people could easily be offended at "Johnny Feelgood" because it suggests that this woman in the song enjoys being physically abused and perhaps sends the message that it's OK if she likes it. I don't think that's what Liz is saying at all. I find it to be more of a character study and rationalization on the girl's part, but I do think Liz is pushing buttons and the envelope so to speak with that song. - --- end of quote --- people have the right to be offended, sure--you can't change the way you feel about something. on the other hand, even if the song was about liz enjoying being beaten up (which i know it isn't), wouldn't/shouldn't she have the right to express that emotion as a part of her creative license? i don't think political correctness should limit someone's art. art is an expression of the self, not what we think is best for society, in general. politics fill that role (although not quite that well, some would argue). no offense to anyone. heh. Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 00:18:44 -0800 (PST) From: jganz@POMONA.EDU Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #61 if there is the possibility of getting the girlysounds on cd somehow it would be great for there to be a sort of tree put together. or at least let me know. i would be happy to supply my own blank discs. thanks. jacob. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:16:23 -0500 From: Dan Subject: All the Phag Phans/Life's RIch Pageant Steve wrote: >haha i totally noticed that almost every guy who has written in the past >couple digests is either gay or bi. here's my take on it. You gotta be >pretty open-minded if you're into liz phair. especially if you're a guy >and into liz phair. i mean, lets face it, there are still lots of guys >who have problems dealing with feminism. Hmmm...interesting...it's funny, because many of my gay friends are really getting into her too. My boyfriend is completely hooked...thanks to me of course..i am slowly trying to expose them to the wonderful world of female rockers, other than Madonna and Janet Jackson. Hahah..i wonder if that makes me a Phag? - so be it i guess.:) I do kind of agree with you, I mean, aside from the fact that Liz just flat out rocks, and anyone with taste should at least respect her...i do think she caters to the open minded...her music is soo broad and tackles soo many different topics...especially in the Girlysounds...her lyrics are not the easiest thing to listen to if someone is easily squeamish....Perhaps Liz will become the next big gay icon...:) hell...i don't give a shit though....I think that even if Liz was a homophobic, I'd still be rockin' away !!!!! By the way..i highly suggest that you all keep that petition going for Liz to come give me an intimate show...i tell you what, if she agrees to come play for me in my bedroom...yer all invited :) oh ya - THE HUMAN CANONBALL (hehhe) wrote, re:REM: >(and I know I'm the only one who thinks this) their BEST album: Lifes Rich Pageant? I totally agree with you!! This album has always been my favorite from REM...JUST A TOUCH does it for me everytime!!! :) later, Dan. (pelvic bone is healing nicely...uh..i think.) **************************************************** "Crash and burn, all the stars explode tonight." -Hole. **************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:22:25 -0500 From: Dan Subject: POE - NON LIZ. Jeff wrote: >I don't know what you're thinking- Third Eye Blind does not belong with >the likes of the shit-fest that is Matchbox 20, nor does the musical >genious Poe (what have you heard, just "Angry Johhny"?). I actually bought the album HELLO on recommendation of a friend..he said if I like Liz, i will LOVE POE..so maybe my expectations were set too high..i just didn't get it...sure, it is a semi-fun album..some catchy tunes..I really dig the last part in "THAT DAY" when she actually sings..very pretty..and FLY AWAY is nice...but..as a whole..i really don't get it..i find some of the songs annoying..ie-ANOTHER WORLD, JUNKIE, HELLO, ANgry Johnny and DOLPHIN and BEAUTIFUL GIRL...just my taste I guess..i can't really relate to any of it..except the few final seconds in THAT DAY. I don't think i would ever judge a band on just one song...i'd feel guilty...each band i named which i deteste, i own at least one album..by them. Dan. **************************************************** "Crash and burn, all the stars explode tonight." -Hole. **************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:36:45 -0500 From: Ascending to the Stars Subject: M-16 vs F-16 okay.. i am listening to my recording of the 'just passin thru' performance, and liz most definately says F-16.. just to let you all know, and hopefully clear up the confusion. also, the WB show where "baby got goin'" was played on was 'felicity', and i think i freaked my friend meg out while we were watching it, cause all of a sudden i sat up, pointed at the screen, and yelled "its liz!". finally, to anyone in the western mass general area who like tori amos: i have 2 extra tickets to her show on tuesday, nov. 17 in lowell, MA... the tickets are $34 a piece (damn ticketmaster charges!) but if anyone is interested PLEASE email me privately... thanks. later all (:ruthie:) - -- *******Deceive*******Inveigle*******Obfuscate******* "Wild and unwise, I wanna be mesmerizing, too" "So I hope you all will see, there just isn't a place here for me" "All the stars up in heaven were rushed by an angel, to see the light of your face better" --Liz Phair "I'm in love with the world through the eyes of a girl who's still around the morning after" --Elliott Smith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:08:35 -0500 From: "Jenks, Jason" Subject: Concert Tour Correcton I spoke with a friend who's all into the music clubs in North Carolina and he told me that the Ritz is in Raleigh and not Chapel Hill. So scratch any plans going to Chapel Hill on 11/16. The Slick Divide also confirms this on their Tour dates page. Anyone going to the Raleigh show? Know how to get tickets? Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:00:40 EST From: Paradise79@aol.com Subject: Liz's family Okay, I've been going over and over these Liz bios and I'm a little confused. They nearly all mention that her father is John Phair and that he's a doctor and he studies infectious diseases. They also mention that her mother works @ the SAIC, but they never mention her mother's name and if Liz's parents are together or divorced. I've also read that she has a brother, but they don't mention anything about him. No name, no occupation, no age, no mention of if he was adopted too. I searched for Liz's mother in the faculty data base for the SAIC under the last name Phair or Clark (here, I'm going under the assumption that Liz's middle name is her mother's maiden name), but I didn't find either, actually, I found one Clark, but it was a guy. So, does anyone know anything about her family? And I'm curious about this elusive brother of hers. Actually, I'm curious about why the bios mention her father's name, but not her mother's. Hmmm... Hyphen http://members.aol.com/Paradise79/dap.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:25:31 EST From: PokaDot420@aol.com Subject: New Liz Phair Tour Dates! LIZ IS COMING TO ATLANTA, LIZ IS COMING TO ATLANTA!!!!!! yeahhhhh, im so happy(understatement)!!! i just thought id share my enthusiam with all of ya'll because no one else i know cares. i get to see liz, now i just have to figure out a plan on how to meet her, hummmmm.... well anyways anbody else going to this show? mabey we can meet up or something? a possibility? im so happy the shows at the roxy!! so small and intimate!!!! well anyways i dont know if this has been posted yet, so here are the new dates!!!!! ~mesmerized~ sarah xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxoxox The next leg of the Liz Phair tour is now confirmed. Here are the dates: 11/15 Roxy Atlanta* 11/16 Ritz Chapel Hill* 11/19 Aerial Theatre Houston* 11/20 Deep Ellum Live Dallas* 11/22 Ogden Theatre Denver* 11/23 Liberty Hall Lawrence* 11/24 American Theatre St. Louis* http://hollywoodandvine.com/lizphair oxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 98 07:37:49 -0000 From: "Al" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #61 > >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 23:06:32 PST >From: "The Human Cannonball" >Subject: LP in Big D > I wonder if I'm the only one who was >surprised that REM's only album on the list was "Automatic for the >People"? Bleah. What about Murmur, Document, Green, or (and I know I'm >the only one who thinks this) their BEST album: Lifes Rich Pageant? No >accounting for taste, I suppose : P > >That's it. I'm done indulging myself. I think Life's Rich Pageant is a bitchin album and by far their best. Also, I have to say that I was listening to Exile in Guyville last night (I actually listen to it almost everynight.) and does anyone else think that the opening instrumental part of Shatter is amazing and brilliant (well, the whole song is pretty amazing). When it came on at one point last night, I just had to stop my writing and contemplate. If you close your eyes and really listen to everything that is going on in this song, wow! it always seems to blow me away!!!!! Has anyone ever heard her play this song live? I think that would be fuggin rad to experience that! Also, if you live near the ocean, you should go there one night, take your walkman (with WCSE in it of course) and sit and listen to Fantasize. I'm now hooked on this song after listening to this song while watching the waves roll in and out. The whole experience felt like one big fantasy. White Chocolate Space Egg is another that should be experienced in the same way. Oh well, just thought I'd share some of my Liz moments with ya'll. Al ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:18:29 EST From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: Liz in Lawrence, KS OK, so I've been telling all my friends close to a Liz show that they are sucks, because I've never lived anywhere close enough to be able to rationalize a trip to see her. Well, now I guess I am the one who am sucks, because LIZ IS PLAYING IN LAWRENCE, KS ON NOV 23!!!!!!! WOO HOOO!!!!!! AT LIBERTY HALL, ON TOP OF THAT!!!!!! Calming down now. Anyhow, any others Support Systems folks who will be there, please e-mail me privately if you'd like to meet up at the show. Liberty Hall is probably the best place to see a band in the Kansas City/Lawrence area. This is fantastic news! And it's only 3 days after the Garbage/GVSB show. I can hardly believe it--3 of my top 5 favorites in 3 days' time!!!! Hope to hear from you folks in the KC area, Derek http://loveamongpuppets.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:34:53 -0600 From: "Kerry Black" Subject: New Orleans Gig For anyone in the South/New Orleans area... Liz Phair November 18th Howlin' Wolf New Orleans For more info, check out www.superflypresents.com Kerry Black Superfly Productions Info@superflypresents.com www.superflypresents.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 22:23:41 -0800 From: David Weich Subject: a few things Steve -- for the record, I'm on this list and I'm a straight guy. But only one of my straight male friends likes Liz. I don't know why. Do men feel threatened? Personally, I just think she's incredibly smart (from the lyrics and songwriting), down-to-earth (what I gather from interviews), beautiful (well, she is), and funny as hell. That pretty much sums up everything I could ever want in a woman. Jason -- I thought your reference to Johnny Feelgood was interesting. And for more on the subject of inferring one thing (rape, in this case) from another, if you have a chance check out Steve Martin's (yes, the comedian/actor/director) piece in the current (double issue Oct 26-Nov 2) New Yorker magazine called "The New Causality." Not only is it right on, it's VERY funny. It's really short, so you could just pick it off the rack and read it in the store if you don't feel like buying the whole issue. (More and more I think Steve Martin is an absolute genius, but I guess this is somewhat outside the realm of this list. That said, I just bought "The Jerk" and I can't think of a better way to have wasted seven bucks.) One more thing: a few weeks ago, someone wrote in about leaving a CARNIVORE SINGLE with Janet, the backup singer, who got Liz to sign it, then mailed it to you. Whoever that was, could you send me an email, please? I have a question for you. Thanks! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:25:33 EST From: Emerald314@aol.com Subject: Whip-Smart Just to toss in my two cents.... I think it's great that so many people have posted about their appreciation for Whip-Smart. It was the first Liz cd I got (bought after hearing "Supernova" on the radio and being amazed). Of course I love all of Liz's cds and I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite, but WS will always hold a special place in my heart for being the first. It has a lot of memories attached to it for me and sometimes I get in a mood where it's all I want to listen to. :) ~Emily "...some pot of gold, it's just a carpeting store on opening day..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:46:22 -0500 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: a characterization Hello everyone, Let's see if I can do this without getting too banal: I'm 26. My hobbies include procrastination, collecting records (a couple hundred vinyl, about 6-700 CD's, and I must have traded/sold/given away another couple hundred in the last 8 years or so), making mix tapes, watching more movies than is generally considered healthy, and reading books when they slap me up against a wall and sit me down. My passion is writing, but mediocrity and I are in a twisted relationship I just can't seem to get out of just yet. The landmark loves in my life in virtual chronological order are: - -- baseball - -- Olivia Newton-John in "Grease" - -- the Beatles - -- the songs of Lennon, Dylan, Mould, Costello and Phair - -- jazz, with Coltrane, Mingus, Monk, Dolphy, Tatum and Ornette pretty much taking up my whole collection - -- four women I met in college - -- women in general I'm not political or terribly religious. I adore Janeane Garofalo, can't get enough of the "Mr. Boffo" comic strip, never smoked anything in my life (though I have many friends who have), watched too much bad television growing up (late 70's onward), cry only while watching movies (?), think "The Graduate" is the most perfect movie ever made, love only the first four "Planet Of The Apes" movies, wish I could draw/paint/sculpt (but my hands have been in mutiny), leave overly long messages on answering machines, will listen to anyone's problems and am fairly decent in offering advice, must have some sort of fetish regarding women wearing things in their hair (barrettes, berets, scrunchies, headbands (not the Mike Reno/Loverboy/80's kind), etc), enjoy playing blackjack at the casinos, and I've pretty much left a lonely rage grow on its own in four tiny years... I agree with Cindy Nagle's general characterizations of Liz phans (re: open-mindedness, etc)...I think a generation's consistency has gone from 20 year cycles to about 3-4 year cycles...I long for the days when rhythm and blues was rhythm and blues (Stax/Motown/James Brown/Aretha/Sly/Ray Charles)...I fear a nation overrun by New Country music...I wish I could get more interested in computers, but I think the evil aspect of them repel me... .....and I only want a few things in life: 1) the opportunity to do a really good interview with Liz 2) as many Beatle Rubber Soul album covers as I can get my hands on for a little monument I'm hoping to create (I'll make it worth your while at a decent enough cost) 3) to be able to look at my writing and think it's not half-bad 4) to have as many relationships with women as healthily possible (preferably of the intense soulful/emotional/sexual kind) :) and 5) every Liz Phair boot possible (boot-leg, but if she's offering...) Sounds like one of my answering machine messages... Chuck P.S. -- One more special / message to go / then I'm done / and I can go home... Like my boy Winston O'Boogie once said, "I'd love to turn you on..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:00:41 -0600 From: "Phelan, Molly" Subject: Brush with Fame Well, here is another fun little story in the volumes of happenings that make up my strange little life... Went to the Liz Phair show on the 27th at the Vic. Besides being four feet away from her during the performance- which was a great one at that- she went to the edge of the stage and was shaking hands after one song- so I got to shake her hand. My friend and I stayed after the show, got another drink, went back to the stage and got set lists from the show. So very soon after that bouncers are telling us to leave and move it along... so after some smiling, a couple of questions about the show, and a kiss on the cheeck we are allowed to stay for a bit and start talking to the security guys ( who all happen to be ex-cops thrown out of the force for one reason or another). So a little more flirting and me telling the goat joke (if you don't know it sorry-but it's a winner) got me a t-shirt and got us escorted up the stairs to the back stage party. So we meet some other ex-cops and have another drink- Megan splits for a second and then comes back with her set list signed from Liz. (Apparently she was too awe struct and didn't say anything to Liz and just kinda fumbled to get it signed)So I went over to talk to her and - after eavesdropping on a conversation about how it was pretty cool to play in front of her mom the night before- I got to introduce my self and asked the most phrophetic question ever... "Do you ever get pissed that enough people don't dance at your show?" Her response "Hell yeah" So we discussed energy issues between the audience and stage- she believes she follws the crowds energy and the crowd has a huge part in the show. So a good five minutes go by - I said thanks for a great show - and we end up partying with the ex-cons - I meant cops- for the rest of the night. Like there was any doubt- she was very cool. Moral of the story- a good joke can get you anywhere:) Molly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:32:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jeffrey Larson Subject: video this is to steve wakeley and mark henninger. i can't find any e-mails from you in my box, but i wanted to let you know that you each have a liz video on the way to you. it should arrive in 3 to 5 days. let me know what you think of it please. jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:06:25 -0600 From: "Phelan, Molly" Subject: Phan types- Leslie's question In your quest for definition of a Phair Phan (which I don't feel can nor should be defined)... 26 female, irish catholic, black and sleek is prefered style of dress, a little grunge here and there, graduated from top 25 colleges on my way to B school, straight, many dates - no love. I got hooked in 1993 with Guyville and haven't stopped. Only wish there was more. Other fav's- Tori, Anni, Hole, Dave Matthews, Poi Dog then the switch to PropellerHeads, Prodigy, Goldie, Fatboy Slim. The Dead will always have a place in my heart- right next to the Beatles and Duran Duran. Freetime- photography, writing, execise, sleep, party (not in that order) WHy Liz?-I think the mix of power, sex, honesty and femininity is the reason I find her the best female performer in the industry today. And may I throw in a question of my own.. Why is it that people assume just because a woman has a band of her own and can sing about sex and be a little tough, she is automatically labled a lesbian (no offense to anyone by the way)? Is it the fact that most of society can't accept strong women or what? Thanks for the time- Probably more than you wanted to know. Ciao- Molly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:51:00 -0800 From: klaytonix@juno.com (klayton j curtis) Subject: looking at liz Jason, Its actually quite simple to see how your type of comments could be extended to rape. Your apparent reasoning is the same (down to the word) that rapists use. I do not think your a rapist, nor does (I think) anyone else on the list think you are. "I'm a guy, I cant help it" suggests that if you are a guy then you truly cannot help what you think. Yes, physical violence can be helped. In the same way, so can attitudes and perceptions of women that reduce or objectify them for sexual gratification. This next step is a difficult one for some, but it needs to be taken by men for us to live in a civilized society. So a better statement by you could have been "I'm a guy and I CAN help it." Its a voluntary step that puts us in control of our hormones and restricts our male-ness. By reducing liz in this manor (although I'm used to it), it diminishes the poignancy of her message. Liz is a master of subtlety mixed with a bait and switch technique. With the cover of Guyville, she hooked men who were into her as a sexual object. Then once inside the album those men found a 2x4 to the face. Some men did not catch those subtleties and are still trying to see a little farther down her dress. In her seattle concert she introduced Johnny Feelgood by saying that some people have misinterpreted it to be about spouse abuse. she said, "it's about..." and some guy yelled,"fucking." She said, "no...its more like sparring." You said, "I find it to be more of a character study and rationalization on the girl's part, but I do think Liz is pushing buttons and the envelope so to speak with that song." A rationalization for what??! ( I'm afraid to ask) I'm sorry but no, she is not pushing your button. She is describing the intricacies of a cerebral relationship. It was my take that she put those photos in the show along side the ones with her fishing, and with her friends and family because she wants to reiterate (once again) that she is a WHOLE person, and enjoying herself as a sensual being is just ONE aspect of the whole. I appreciated the ones of her being very happy and being real around her friends. If I could have any of those photos I think the one with the fish helps me understand her the most and would be grateful to have that one. klayton ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #62 ***********************************