From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #59 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, October 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 059 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: F-16 ["David Morgan" ] Re: "Those" kinds of bands ["Dolphin 95" ] a few things [Gabepet@aol.com] F-16; TV show ["Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" ] Re: last nights show [johnyfeelgood ] dreams ["Jennifer Sayler" ] liz in chicago 10/26 ["Julia Rios" ] Re: support-system-digest V1 #58 [lau66@juno.com (Laura C Sheperis)] Characterization, et al. ["Cynthia Nagle" ] Lyric time with Liz Phair ["Chris DeLisle" ] Renew your Whip Smart ideas, naysayers! ["Chris DeLisle" ] just a little bit ["Cynthia Nagle" ] new liz tour dates [Breadnb@aol.com] new voice, old songs [Melissa Leigh ] WTD: DAT traders ["JZ" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] comments ["Heather Coleman" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:03:33 -0800 From: "David Morgan" Subject: Re: F-16 An F-16 is an American made fighter plane, I think by lockheed, but whatever. It was the first jet that could really blow up things in the air and on the ground. They're also cheap compared to others so America's got a bunch of em. In short: Yeah, an F-16 is a fighter plane. It's the one with the air intake on the bottom and one vertical tail fin. (until I read the first letter I always thought she said m-16 (An evil big gun) Oh well, same effect). Hope it helped, thanks for making me listen. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:46:26 PST From: "Dolphin 95" Subject: Re: "Those" kinds of bands Dan wrote: Music I deteste... Poe, Paula Cole, Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind, Semi-SOnic (you know, those type of bands.) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know what you're thinking- Third Eye Blind does not belong with the likes of the shit-fest that is Matchbox 20, nor does the musical genious Poe (what have you heard, just "Angry Johhny"?). I was surprised to see no one attack me, however, when I mentioned the Spice Girls on my favorite music acts list...I guess there are at least some Liz fans who like them...it's 3:45 a.m. ... - -Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:50:32 EST From: Gabepet@aol.com Subject: a few things First of all, in regards to misheard lyrics, it wasn't until these postings that I knew the correct version but I always thought she had said 'like a sheriff's favorite ass' which I thought was a fun play on words with the donkey that he might ride (which makes me think of Don Quixote's sidekick) or his favorite booty. Secondly, I'm in England right now and have been for a couple months so I'll be so upset if she decides to swap continents with me and start playing here when I return to America. Thirdly, a shattered pelvis? YOUCH!!!!!!! That isn't anything that I want to imagine much less suffer. I hope that you're at least staying in a cool place and not stuck in a room with a guy who insists on watching Price is Right while helping the contestants guess the prices of the products (although 'plinko' could probably raise your spirits). I've got a huge idea brewing here....how about we all send a petition to Matador to have Liz play for Dan in his hospital room and fly in all you Floridians out there for the performance. Lastly, I think the significance of this will probably depend on your age but I reached one of the greatest achievements of my life yesterday. I mastered the Rubiks cube! I can now solve it consistantly under five minutes. I think those fifteen years that I took off helped me clear my head and try again. Take care, Gabriel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:02:22 -0500 From: "Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" Subject: F-16; TV show I got into Liz when I first saw her live at St.Andrews Hall back in 1993 for her first and painfully shakey tour. I had no clue who she was when i went with my friend, and I literally fell in love with her...a delayed reaction a few days after the show..i couldn't stop thinking of her, so i bought EXILE IN GUYVILLE and since then, she has been my favorite singer/songwriter hands down. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:59:50 -0600 From: Kaufmann@IPFW.EDU (Kaufmann,Mike) Subject: selling her music This is an interesting interchange from the Insite article someone mentioned earlier. It says a lot about Liz's view of her work that her indie origins sometimes obscures. Actually, she'd be more than ok with it--because it's nice to be liked but better to get paid. Liz really would dig making shitloads of money. She does think selling her songs is necessarily selling out, though knows it's tricky to be able to accomplish both. Insite Interviewer: Early on, you caught a lot of shit for accepting the marketing side of music and creating an image. With the new album, where the songs weren't initially as shocking, did you feel like you were giving the music more of a chance to stand on its own? Liz: I'd love to help you out here, but none of that was in my thinking. I've always liked to market stuff. I like doing interviews, I like to talk about stuff, I like taking pictures, I like getting dressed up. I really enjoy the process. I see the art in it, even though it's somewhat bastardized. I see the other side of the camera or the other side of the interview as much as I see my role. I just enjoy it. I've always had to come up with explanations for that, because alternative rock really shuns selling itself and shuns the process and shuns the industry. But it's just to my benefit; it's how I grew up. So it was natural and fun for me to do all that stuff. And this album, the whole idea of shocking and not shocking-- what you don't know about me as a person is that I have a lousy memory. I have a really crappy memory. I can't remember very well how I felt four years ago. I'm always looking towards the future... to a fault. I won't go back and examine what I've done and build off of it. If something's not working, I want to scrap it and start somethingnew. I chase after the high that you get, which is really quick and exciting, and you feel like there's some sort of divine intervention. So to analyze it in terms of... y'know, that's a very noble way of putting it, and I'd like to rip that off for future interviews-- "I wanted to give the music a chance to stand on it's own!"-- but I was just making music for the person that I am now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:21:58 -0500 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: Chicago Review >Liz Phair has been called a lot of things in her short career. The Chicago native, who first made her mark with 1993's "Exile in >Guyville," has been characterized as everything from an indie-rock pinup girl to a post-feminist chick icon to a hip '90s mommy (in >the wake of the birth of her son two years ago). >But she's never been called a rock star. Until now. I don't know where they get the reviewers for the concerts and albums in these urban indie/mainstreet pickup papers. If I recall, when Liz Phair was on the cover of Rolling Stone back in 1994 the headline was "A Rock Star is Born". Back in the summer, the Vancouver indie (the Georgia Straight) wrote some article about something (I can't remember) and made a reference to Liz Phair's breakthrough album "Exile in Guytown" ????? I sometimes wonder if my parents are editing these things. I'm your non-typical Liz Phan. Graduated Frat Boy (although our house wasn't to typical. Juliana Hatfield, Liz, Sarah Mac, DMB, and the Muses got a lot of airplay.) no piercings or tattoos. Geography major. Turned Commercial Real Estate Broker turned Stock Broker. 24, attached (to a girl), Yes, I like Golf. The Barenaked Ladies are nostalgic to me (they were the college band of the early-90s up here.) I wear a suit to work and nobody that I work with has a clue who Liz Phair is (in fact, this bunch doesn't even no who Dave Matthews is either - who I'm pumped up about seeing next week for the 4th time this year). It saddens me that mainstream, redundant "I love, I need you, Be my baby, Don't go honey" crap gets 90% of the airplay on this continent; especially because the closest thing to alternative radio in this city is a station that plays AC/DC and Boston. Do I smoke? couple of times a day at the most. Pot? I'm from British Columbia, who doesn't try it once in a while? But just because I don't live an alternative lifestyle doesn't make me mainstream! Defensive and annoyed today Mike Oh, and Jen, I'm putting the Tape in the mail today as soon as I go down to the mall and get a few good tapes for you to record to. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:33:18 -0600 (CST) From: johnyfeelgood Subject: Re: last nights show wow i just saw liz's show last night and she rocked. she's a great performer and the audience was really into it. the only complaint i had was the two lamo girls in front of me who just stood their talking to each other. they really cramped my whoo hooing and various hootings liz was wearing this red velvet top with and black skirt with a slit at the bottom. then during the encore she wore this silver dress with some sort of blue stripe at the bottom. anyway she was lovely as always i really enjoyed watching brad wood playing back up guitar. i love it when people are willing to be goofy to make things more fun. the drummer was really cool too and the back up singer, she's got it and willing to flaunt it. the bass player had that oh im so cool look , but loosened up at some parts i heard the order of the songs were really set. well this time i guess she mixed it up cuz she had fuck and run in the middle. other highlights - -she came out for 3 or 4 songs for the encore - -she sang some non-liz song which was cool too b-bye ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:12:47 -0600 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: dreams I had yet another dream about Liz last night, thats makes four! Now, they arent gross sex dreams or anything so get those minds out of the gutter. Every time I have a dream about Liz, she is performing somewhere and sees me, recognizes me and waves me over and we start talking and stuff. How cool is that. I also happen to belive in premonitions, so maybe Liz will announce some tour dates in NASHVILLE! PLEASE!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny "I wanna be cool, tall, vulnerable, and luscious" - Liz Phair http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/lizphair.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:53:11 GMT From: "Julia Rios" Subject: liz in chicago 10/26 the show was of course, everything and more than what the others there posted. i was really happy that she played go on ahead as it is in the contest for my favorite wcse song (but my favorite song of all time will always be the divorce song). i think one of my favorite moments of the show was when she messed up the ending of jealousy and then told an antecdote about how in recording she would be like, "i can hear the russian army na na na na na..." and that she would just as soon have left it that way if people had let her. then she dedicated fuck and run to her mother who was present and that was also pretty funny. she acknowledged the entire band aloud after someone said, "ric's the man!" (ric being the drummer... and yes, he is the man, he rocks) after the show though, was the most exciting thing for me, because janet remembered me from philly and took me and my friend backstage and we got to actually meet liz. that was probably the most exciting thing ever for me. chris (my friend) was very nonchalant about the whole thing, however. anyway, i talked to liz and sounded like an idiot, but just to clear a couple of things up... in may queen she does say "got any what" not "got an ewok" ( i told her that one because i thought it was funny, but she looked a little bewilderd and had to try to remember the words). my question was about the national end-all part, which i had always sung "national anthem" and which other people have posted about (i believe it was jenny who said national emblem). anyway, according to liz (who was busy asking *me* what lyrics were...) it's "national end-all, with a hyphen between end and all" not that you may have been curious about it, but i was. also she said there will (to reconfirm the cleveland girl's post) be a columbus show sometime. janet said that she thought that they were going southwest soon, but then she said atlanta was an upcoming show, and maybe nashville. we all know aobut kansas now, so who knows what's next? first kansas then the world! anyway it was absolutely incredible and i had a great time. i still can't really believe it's real, but everytime i think it isn't i go and look at the after show pass that is still stuck on my shirt until i can find something better to stick it to and hang on my wall. then i think, "did i really say 'i have loved you ever since i was fifteen'...? doh! what an idiot!!" but i guess i have to excuse my idiocy because of the extreme excitement. i'd like to think that if i ever talked to her again that i would be better... and my last word: always sang m-16. i like it that way. but i can see the wickedness of an f-16. acid's sting is pretty neat imagery too... Julia :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:25:20 -0500 From: lau66@juno.com (Laura C Sheperis) Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #58 when I first joined this list, i was really surprised to see so many men posting. See, when I first became aware of Liz's music (about 4 yrs ago), most men/boys I knew really didn't like her music. I literally could count the guys who liked her on one hand, (and still have some left over) yet all my female friends loved her from day one. So now I see that Liz is adored by a good mix of men and women, and despite all the debates about her attractiveness, I know it's much more than that. I know that a large reason why I fell in love with her music was because I felt I could relate to the lyrics, and there was a kind of get-up-and-dance quality to the music to boot. So for all you male phans out there, and for you females who know male phans, do you find that you, too, can relate to Liz's lyrics. Is she good enough to transcend the gender boundaries that society creates? I don't mean for this to be a thread, but it is a question that has been burning in my head for a while, and the question that came up about the "typical Liz phan" made it burn stronger. **on another note** I just got Melissa Ferrick's "willing to wait" CD, after having listened to it dubbed on cassette for 2 yrs, and I am suddenly struck as to why she is so awesome and why I think many Liz phans will really like her - if you're looking for another female artist who has really great lyrics (similar to Liz but a little more mellow) and who plays a great guitar, check her out. **as for the misheard lyrics debate** yeah, I keep saying "M-16", too, but considering that before now I really didn't know in detail what they are (except gun v. plane) it didn't really make a difference. But I want to thank Jason Long for having the lyrics on his web site, b/c that's where I first saw them and now I can't even remember what I used to sing. Oh, except in Johnny Sunshine, when she says "Now I am stuck, living out of a box" I thought it was "Now I am stuck, emptying the litter box" (hey she talks about a cat earlier, it sorta makes sense). That's all. Sorry this was so long. Laura ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "I feel the sun on my back... I smell the earth in my skin... I see the sky above me like a full recovery" -Liz Phair ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 13:58:44 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: Characterization, et al. Hi everyone! Thought I'd throw 2 more cents in... Leslie asked how we Liz fans would characterize ourselves - here's one more for the kettle. I'm 33, female, Libra, nonsmoker, no drugs since college, yes I drink (well, gotta have some vice), single & living with my long-time boyfriend, middle-class, socially liberal. Artsy & analytic at the same time. Procrastinator, perfectionist, attention-seeker. Not a musician, but I sing pretty well. Grew up Catholic, and with a complex about being "a brain"... I'm now atheist, and quite comfortable with being smart! College major, French (at SUNY Geneseo - hello list members there! - & a stint at Skidmore College, anyone heard of it?) I do CPA firm marketing for my $ living, and am thus in a "professional" environment every day (though I don't care for that word). I do community theatre for my soul - primarily acting & board service. I'm a dichotomy, almost evenly split between conformist (work, goals like children, fiscal stability, etc.) and nonconformist (theatre, my tastes in all things artistic, my fantasies). I envy those of you who are still in school, exploring, experiencing, open to possibilities... Luckily there are different, but still worthy, pleasures to be had post-college! The traits that we Liz fans seem to share - at least the fans on this list, and the ones who have responded to Leslie's inquiry - are creativity, open-mindedness, genuine-ness, a passion for searching, and eclecticism, esp. in music. And of course, great *taste* in music, because we all love Liz! Re: the Supernova "your kisses are as wicked as an M-16/F-16" topic - I've never been able to tell which one it is, but I don't care - because either one provides delicious imagery: the feeling of being under missile attack from a lover's kisses. OOOOH! Thanks to the Military Michaels (Connolly and Worrell) for helping us distinguish M from F (ha ha ha). How weird - my ex-fiance was a Navy man, and HIS name is Michael... Thanks to Al for posting the LA Times Readers' Top 100 albums! I was surprised to see how many I have. Even at #86, Liz still beat out some heavy hitters! :^) Sorry for such a long post. Thanks for listening! Cindy "Well look at me, I'm frightening my friends." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:42:38 -0500 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: Lyric time with Liz Phair Hello everyone, 1) In Cinco de Mayo, what is Liz getting at when she refers to someone as "old and piled," just like Rome? 2) In Jealousy, what is the significance of "watching the salmon fly?" (On another note, I always thought she sang "watching the seven fi," but since neither "fi" nor "fye" nor even "phi" is often used, I figured it had to be something else) 3) What the hell is she talking about in May Queen? I mean, I feel the emotional content, but it's perplexing to me. "Got any what?" Huh? That's it for now. Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:09:53 -0500 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: Renew your Whip Smart ideas, naysayers! Hello once again, everyone, I've listened to "Whip Smart" quite a bit since the question came up a month or two ago about whether it was a lesser album. I think the question's ridiculous, now, myself. I think it's as immortal as "Exile" and "WCSE." Just listen to "Crater Lake," "X-Ray Man," or "Nashville" a few times if you need it. Maybe it sounds better in context with "WCSE's" release. But whatever, the reason, I've come up with a new Top 10 for myself, however momentary it may be: 1) Strange Loop 2) Perfect World 3) Jealousy 4) Crater Lake 5) Divorce Song 6) What Makes You Happy 7) Ride 8) May Queen 9) (Beginning To) See The Light 10) Dance Of The Seven Veils, based solely on the live performance -- something I don't think I'll easily forget :) Chuck "I bought a map of the moon There's a crater with my name on it and a really good view" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:21:11 -0800 From: David Weich Subject: straight women and liz Hyphen and others, For the record, I started playing Liz for my girlfriend (who is straight) shortly after we started dating, which is almost three years ago now. It took a little while, a couple months maybe, but more and more I'd find her listening to Guyville or Whip-Smart without me. I don't know when she completely gave in, but whitechocolatespaceegg, then the show we saw a few weeks ago, certainly removed any doubt she may have had about being a fan. So are straight women turned on by Liz? Well, the day after the show, a friend asked if we'd enjoyed it. My girlfriend said (this is a direct quote), "It was amazing. Now I want to have sex with her almost as bad as Dave does." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:36:57 -0500 From: "Cynthia Nagle" Subject: just a little bit Hello Phanatics! I must say that the mis-heard lyrics from Steve "The New Zero" are the funniest by far! You had me ROFLMAO with these! They join "got an ewok" in the Immortal Mis-Heard Liz Lyrics Hall of Fame. I wish my own mis-heard lines were that funny. "Jasmine Davila" - you have such a beautiful name! :^) Dan, we all wish you a speedy recovery! Hang in there! Boy, it's fortunate that everyone in your car is OK... you didn't mention the people in the other 3 cars, but I'm assuming because you didn't say otherwise that they're OK too? Everyone, please stop and think how lucky you are, right now (you too, Dan). Any of us could be in a fatal accident at any time. Count your blessings! Cindy "Well look at me, I'm frightening my friends." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:37:50 EST From: Breadnb@aol.com Subject: new liz tour dates hey all- i got these from the hollywood and vine mailing list.. <> just thought you'd like to know! ;) lins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:37:51 -0500 From: Melissa Leigh Subject: new voice, old songs I got to see Liz in Toronto (go Greyhound!) and it was amazing to me to see how much energy she had on stage. I still think of Liz in a bedroom-song-writing way, or used to anyway. She jumped around and danced with her backup singer and did that little squat and twist move. It's different from the way I usually envisioned her. On tv we only get to see her play Polyester Bride which doesn't seem to lend to her jumping about. I also noticed the effect of her "new & improved" voice on her older songs. She really brings them up out of the deadpan voice range and softens the higher note parts like in Dance of the Seven Veils. It's kinda like someone who wrote the songs depressed, but sings them when manic. I just want to say that I think female phans who yell things like "you so sexy!" while liz is playing is really out of line. Just because you share a gender doesn't mean you can yell things at someone about her sexuality. Liz knows she's hot. If I were on stage and people were yelling things like that at me it would freak me out. (This isn't really out of nowhere, it's about females attracted to liz) - ---melissa - ---melissa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:16:20 -0600 From: "JZ" Subject: WTD: DAT traders Are there any of you on this list. If so, email me for something possibly of interest. Thanks. Jose' jzamudio@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:26:13 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: trent vanegas Subject: Re: felicity >anyone else watching felicity? They played Baby Got Going during the party >scene...Just thought it was cool to see her played on tv. >(and the whole pink power ranger thing was funny..:) > >just a pointless post... pointless?? never!!! that was awesome. the tv was on in the background and when i heard liz i freaked!!! they also showed the album cover at the end of the show!! Pink Power Ranger=PURE GENIUS! That was great! later trent ============================================== T.M. Vanegas tvanegas@umd.umich.edu University of Michigan, Dearborn College of Arts, Sciences, and Letters MALS Office, Attn: Studia Liberalia 4901 Evergreen Rd. Dearborn, Michigan 48128-1491 ============================================== To demand of strength that it should not express itself as strength, that it should not be a desire to overcome, a desire to throw down, a desire to become master, a thirst for enemies and resistances and triumphs, is just as absurd as to demand of weakness that it should express itself as strength. - -Friedrich Nietzsche On the Genealogy of Morals First Essay, Section 13 ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:27:13 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Michael P Morell Subject: Monday night's performance What's with the slideshow. I was expecting something vaguely more interesting and about half as long. Didn't the whole thing seem a little self-indulgent to anyone else? I couldn't decide whether the audience was actually supposed to sit there and stare at the slides (which they did) or if the whole thing was just supposed to be background ambiance until the show started. Regardless, I think showing picture after picture of yourself doing uninteresting things (does she ever close her mouth?!?) is not the best way to rev up a crowd. Yet.... The show itself was great. Liz didn't seem nervous, but she wasn't quite comfortable either. She spent a lot of time trying to fit the rock star stereotype. For instance, she would sing to the balcony, but it would seem very deliberate. She shook people's hands in the front row, but it seemed like she was doing it because that's the sort of thing performers do. Her hand motions looked choreographed. But it was all very endearing. She looked like she was having a good time. I thought she was fine vocally. Her voice wasn't the highlight, but it didn't ruin any songs either. The set list was similar to other ones that I've seen posted except that she played a four song encore (perfect world, go on ahead, stratford-on-guy, fuck and run). She didn't talk too much to the crowd. When she forgot the lyrics to the last verse of jealousy and decided to sort of mumble along instead, she said that she screwed up a line while recording the song headache and started mumbling but she decided to leave it in because "it was so me." Before playing fuck and run she announced that her mom was in the audience and that it was the first time her mom had seen her perform ("mom, um, ignore songs 7, 9, and 12"). Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:28:58 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Meet Lucy Phair Eric: >Hole: the best song is "celebrity skin". A rock and roll classic. (But >"Olympia" is >my favorite). But why are we talking about Hole when this is a Liz Phair >forum? *S* Because we are not close-minded and we know that on-topic lists suck. :) Steve W: >Anybody who owns the whip-smart tab book knows learning a liz song can be >a bitch because she's a good guitar player. I'd say excellent :) And besides, she uses her own chords. Unlike most of the guitar players, she doesn't play things everyone has been doing previously. That's one of the things that attracted me, the fact that what I heard was really new (I've been listening to rock music since 1973). *That* was short ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:39:08 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: David Pittman Subject: untitled wowsers! well, i left liz's show about 24 hours ago, and i still cant believe how awesome it was! got there super early, and got the spot on the real right in front of her about 5 ft away. it was crazy, i could hear the actual strumming sounds on her guitar despite all the amps and stuff. it was awesome. anyways, before the slides even started, it was running a bit late. i looked up onto the sheets of paper taped to the stage, and saw a set list very familiar from previous posts. very upsetting, i thought, that there would be no jealousy or go on ahead, strange, because we heard both these songs during the sound check. the roadie came out, and we asked what was up. he said that they had just finished changing the set list, a special treat for the chicago hometown fans. i asked him if i could have the old one, and sure enough, got it. once the show got going, i kinda went into a trance. feel bad for my girlfriend, as i think my eyes left liz about 5 times in an hour and a half. oh well. she sounded great and looked great. i dont know why, but even though i knew she was very petite, i wasnt prepared. she did seem pretty tiny up there. well, i will get to the other happenings, then leave you with the set list. first of all, i was with my girlfriend and 1 other friend. the friend had only heard a couple songs until the ride to the show (6 liz discs in the changer). he loved it. my girlfriend is very admirable. she didnt know any of liz's stuff until wcse came out, and she bought it for herself the day it came out, as i had been so psyched about it. by last night, she knew every lyric at the concert. im so proud....but they both really ruled last night. at the tail end of a song, i think it was mesmerizing, liz came to the front of the stage. shawn, my friend, reached his hand halfway up to her first, and i followed a split second later. she reached down, and shawn pulled his hand back, so she held mine for a second. ill never wash it again! next, during the encore, after perfect world, she threw out a guitar pick, and it fell to the floor in the buffer area, with the security guy handing it to my girlfriend. she handed it to me. too cool! then, as we were starting to walk out, looking for any possibility of getting backstage, a drumstick gets thrown out, and shawn gets it. he gives that to me. i end up with 3 things, plus having held her hand, however briefly. whoo- whoo!!!!! anybody have any ideas how to get backstage at the vic, if i get back on tues nite??? i know ive been spoiled already, but im very selfish, and i want more. well, heres the set list. sorry about the ramblings. explain it to me (very cool opening) 6'1" cinco de mayo support system never said johnny feelgood dance of 7 veils uncle alvarez big tall man polyester bride supernova flower what makes you happy mesmerizing jealousy (they did play it!) whitechocolatespaceegg divorce song encores perfect world go on ahead (other addition from original) stratford on guy fuck and run sorry about the length, dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:52:02 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Me again Derek: >(Although, Liz has said in the past that Nine Inch Nails' The Downward Spiral >is one of her favorite albums...) Yeah this girl has good taste :) Ally: >You know what other band kicks ass?? Hole I know I know :) There's quite some Hole fans around here so I'm sure Jason won't mind me advertising the Hole list I run he he :) If you're interested, go to http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1742/hll.html or email me at moe@gulliver.fr if you wanna join. End of commercial, back to your normal program :) Dan: >Umm...nope, no Fall 1998 shows, but I have a really cool bootlegged video >of her year 2001 performance down at Times Square...email me if yer >interested. HAHA ROTFL :) Cindy: >I'm not getting much done here at work, but >it's much more interesting to read everyone's thoughts on Ms. Phair. Oh I know what you feel, this afternoon, all I did was replying to digests :) And in a few minutes, I'm gonna get in my car and blast WCSE :) See ya Moe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:50:20 -0800 From: "Heather Coleman" Subject: comments Fran wrote: How extremely generous of you. and: I think the issue was not his attraction to Liz but his presumed basis for it ("I'm a guy. I can't help it."). If you just extend that a little, it could be used to explain whatever (and used to be employed to justify rape). Besides, I think most attractions are somewhat influenced by social conditioning, particularly if they're hetero, since there is a lot of pressure applied to get people to be that way. But that pressure might be invisible to you if you haven't been on the other side of things. This guy (Michael) pretty politely says, "Excuse me, but you're overlooking something and making assumptions that obfuscate who I am" (my paraphrase) and you act like it's this major imposition. That's when I think something is wrong, though I bet your reaction is pretty common. Sorry to prolong the un-Liz-related argument, but this bugged me when I read it last weekend. I can duck the tomatoes. Got to go look for a Halloween costume. "Winter in Ohio was especially rough if you had an appetite for color." - Toni Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:54:30 -0500 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: moe@lac2.gulliver.fr Subject: Back with a monster post Hi I'm so behind but I'll read everything Goddessdamnit!! So don't be surprised if I reply to really really old things. :) Sindie I love your WCSE review, I wish I could write like that. :) My age is 5.15 ....... in dog years so that's 36 and I discovered EIG in 1994. Dan: > Hole's "Celebrity Skin" is just orgasmic beyond belief...very much more >poppier, but I love it... Same here. In my car these days, I only have one tape: CS on one side and WCSE on the other. :) Ok here's my pathetic WCSE review: Least fave songs: - - Perfect world, the melody just doesn't make it for me, maybe too quiet, good lyrics though - - Love is nothing, Mmmm I'm not sure about this one the lyrics are good but I don't like the music. - - Only Son, read above - - Fantasize: read above Fave: - - WCSE, good melody, good tempo. Love the lyrics. I don't know what she means but I love them :) - - Big tall man, love the drag racing guitar effect, nice melody, good energy - - Johnny Feelgood, AAAAAAARGHHHHH, I'm on a high when I hear it WOW!!! Interesting lyrics too - - Polyester Bride: read at "Johnny Feelgood" :) - - Baby got going: great tempo, funny lyrics - - Uncle Alvarez: perfect imo to follow Baby got going. I love this one. Great lyrics, as someone said we all know an Uncle Alvarez :) - - Go on ahead: this one is ok - - Headache: I like it, good melody - - Ride: absolutely great - - What makes you happy: I love the quiet parts in the beginning, until "I feel the sun on my back... I smell the earth on my skin... I see the sky above me like a full recovery..." After that it's too repetitive and boring but the beginning is just awesome!! - - Shitloads of money: great melody, nice lyrics - - Girl's room: funny but not a very good song to end the album imo. So in fact it seems that I don't really like the quiet songs. I liked them in the previous albums because I think they were stranger (Dance of the 7 veils, Glory, Explain it to me, Shatter, Gunshy or Shane, Nashville, Crater Lake or Alice Springs). In WCSE, it seems that the quiet songs are more conventional and accessible and simple in their structure, maybe that's what I miss. Well that's it, now you see why I said I'd like to write stuff as good as Sindie does ;) About the name support system, I picture all these machine in hospitals in icu. But that's ok. Ideas of list names (not that I want it to be changed :) Exile in listville, Post and run, Dance of the seven mails (love that last one :) I don't really see what can be 'cleaned' in WCSE, there is only one "fuck". Katie: >With me, if I really like >someone's music, I find myself buying their other cds. I hope there are other >people on this list that's in the same boat as me. Count me in :) Greg: >I'm 34, and I've been listening to The Phair One since EIG first came >out. Was living in Europe at the time and no one over there (And I mean >NO ONE) even knew who she was back then. Hmm *I* did :) But I agree that it's very confidential. FRAN: >How can people knock individual Liz songs (or even whole albums, for >that matter, like those who dis Whipsmart)??!!?? I don't get it... all > >better that anything else anyone else is doing). This song is >Chopsticks. How can you knock Chopsticks???? I don't get it. Haha just kidding, just meant to say that people have personal opinions. So what's the big deal? She is one of my favorite artists but there is stuff she did I don't like. And anyway she may be one of my favorite artists *now* but she's on no pedestal and being a fan doesn't mean I'm going to worship her blindly. >and I'm sorry if this posting sounds too negative or agressive...there >are just some things that irritate me. I apologize. No problemo :) Gabriel: >A few people have seemed embarassed to say that they have only been listening >for a few months or so. Well no one should be embarassed about that. Even the people who claim they are true fans since the beginning blah blah blah have discovered a band some day and the day before, they didn't know that band. You have to start somewhere and I hate this "I am a better fan than you are because I heard them before you". That's a good thing there seems to be no people like that around here. :) Mike: >And I can't get anyone I know to listen to her stuff, not even my wife, >who is a BIG BIG BIG Hole fan. I'm a BIG BIG BIG fan of both. :) Gijs: >We have a serious backlog here: WCSE I bought through >amazon - it is not available through stores till January 1999. I live in France. I got mine thru CDnow but I've seen it in import around here since september, 15. >A top 10 would be difficult. I totally agree with that. Make it a top 60 :) Ok caught up until the september 20 digest. Gotta send this if I don't wanna bust the 7k limit. Expect more later :) Moe ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #59 ***********************************