From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V1 #25 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, September 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 025 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: A Problem with Liz?? ["Jennifer Sayler" ] Polyester Bride Video Online [Stuart Jackson ] My answer to Dan's question [Gabepet@aol.com] [none] ["Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" ] Re: support-system-digest V1 #24 [kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko)] Re: A Problem with Liz?? [Whiipsmart@aol.com] Music News of the World and the Liz Show [Ben_Radlinski@CFOPUB.COM] [none] ["Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" ] Please help me. Oh please, please, please. ["melissa s" ] different covers??? ["Stacey Wirt" ] Stuff ["Chipko Arnold" ] old concert garb ["Heather Coleman" ] Seattle Show [vjohns@acad.com] crimson and radio [Tiffany M Wilson ] Re: song w/piano, keyboard ["Dolphin 95" ] Re: different covers??? [Jason Long ] Responses ["Colin O'Connor" ] um.....Liz? what else?! [AngelLieb@aol.com] A liz refreshner [Jason Stone ] fave bands/fave liz songs [Breadnb@aol.com] crimson and clover ["Eric Schuman" ] Re: Crimson & Clover [dbickin@ibm.net] massmusic.com????? [AngelLieb@aol.com] Don't worry about it [AngelLieb@aol.com] fave artists ["katie beach" ] Too Little, Too Late? ["David Perry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:31:53 -0400 From: "Jennifer Sayler" Subject: Re: A Problem with Liz?? *WHY* did her album debut at #38, and then practically disapear off the charts? I can tell ya the answer to that one: all the Liz fans went out and bought it the day it came out. I dont know about you guys, but I thought it was a ceremoniuos occasion. Me and my best frind put on our WCSE shirts and drove on out to the mall that wonderful morning of August 12, 1998, oh memories ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jenny I wanna be cool, tall, vulnerable, and luscious http://www.saylerfamily.com/jas/lizphair.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Want to throw in praying? Be my guest." - Jenny Calender ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 04:28:35 -0400 From: "Alex Miller" Subject: Re: A Problem with Liz?? >I've been thinking of Liz and her attention (or lack of) she is recieving. >Yes yes, she is critically acclaimed, magazines give her 4 stars and >constantly name her the most promising song writer of the 90's, one of the >most innovative guitarists of our time, smart, sexy, rocking, mature, >daring, ground-breaking - the Indie Rock Queen, the Rock and Roll star for >the 90's. >Now I have a question. >*WHY* did her album debut at #38, and then practically disapear off the charts? Because a lot of the fans that knew there was a new album bought it as soon as they could, and her fan base isn't large enough to support high chart position or a sustained run on the chart. >*WHY* aren't her videos and songs played in a heavier rotation on more >mainstream stations? Here in Windsor (and the Detroit Michigan stations) I >only heard POLYESTER BRIDE once! ONCE!! Feel lucky. Where I live (Northern lower Michigan) the radio stations have never and most likely will never play any Liz song. For reason, see my next response. >*WHY* doesn't she get more air-play? She gets wonderful reviews and write >ups, but it doesn't seem like her actual material is being displayed >properly! SHe needs more air time! The reason she doesn't get more air-play, even with all the great reviews and critical acclaim, is because her record company doesn't promote her very aggressively. They aren't schmoozing MTV and radio execs with free tickets and assorted paraphernalia to get them to play her music, videos, talk about her, give her exposure, etc. And trust me, this is a good thing. Be glad. Liz is in a perfect position, able to release albums and sell enough to be fairly succesful, but doesn't have the immense pressure of being expected to sell millions of records, release glitzy videos, do huge, back-breaking, year-long tours. She has a very defined fan base, and can do pretty much whatever the hell she pleases on her albums, and with her videos, and with regards to length and location of tour. She doesn't have record execs pounding on her door demanding her next album. I mean, how many artists really are able to take time off to have a child? Another factor in this is that, for a record company, Matador isn't very big. It's not one of the major players. (They do have Capitol behind them, but that's not really a big factor, as Matador is pretty much a seperate company, they make all the day-to-day decisions.) And I'll bet that Liz has a lot to with the decision to not promote her very much. Basically, realize that the music business is exactly that, a business. They can prattle on all they want about how good and vital an artist is, and rave about there new album, but at the end of the day, all they care about is how much money they made. And when they look at Liz in one hand and the Backstreet Boys in the other, most music execs will choose the Backstreet Boys, because their music is a hell of a lot more mindless, and easier to pawn off on the masses. It's unfortunate, but most people aren't that interested in (or smart enough to enjoy) good, meaningful, honest music. They just something with a lot of bass so the can shake their fat asses at the local club. So, let's try and keep Liz and the other good ones to ourselves, so they don't become bloated media whores. >***I mean, all these amazing things are said about her, yet why is it that 9 >times out of 10 when I tell someone my favorite singer is LIZ PHAIR, they >say LIZ WHO?? WHo's that? NEver heard of her! 9 times out of ten.*** > > SUpernova got proper exposure...it is obvious she has the potential to be a >gigantic star, if only her damn songs were played more. I called a radio >station which DOES play LIz occasionally when POLYESTER BRIDE was first >released as a single and asked for it...I spoke with the DJ for about 5 >minutes about how much we liked LIz, and then he said, "Well, I'll try to >get it on for ya." > >Never heard it. That's because it wasn't on their playlist. Most stations buy pre-packaged playlists in their respective format. That makes it easier to pay royalties for songs played. They even use their playlists during their so-called "Request Hour" or whatever the hell your local station calls it. They pretty much know what most people will request, so they just wait 'til a call comes in asking for that song, then play it. Most non-mainstream stuff that's requested won't get played, because it's not on the all-important playlist. Now, that said, that by no means applies to all radio stations, but it does for a lot. If you want to hear something other than the latest Puffy crap, listen to college radio. They mostly play whatever the hell they feel like. You do get some junk, but, overall, it's much more satisfying, as you're not subjected to the same stuff on the hour, every hour. > >Like, dammit! Just play LIZ!! If *they* (much music, radio stations etc.) >just played POLYESTER BRIDE as much as they play the new HOLE video, or >better yet, the fucking BackStreet boys, we'd have a MEGA-star on our hands. > >It baffles me why she is not gigantic by now. I don't get it. > >Not that I really care if she is huge or not, she is still Liz to me, either >way..probably better for us fans that she isn't gigantic, easier to see >shows and stuff, more intimate...but it's weird...just frustrating that she >is not heard on the radio HALF as much as she deserves...like, we all love >her albums, and it is obvious her songs have a fierce grip on many many of >us, and I just find it almost to be a shame that people are still saying >"Oh, never heard of her." BUT, rock on Liz!! Yer amazing, regardless! :) As I said above, be very happy with the current situation. What you said here is spot on. Sorry this was so damn long. I tend to prattle on. If anyone would like to discuss this more, feel free to e-mail me. I'd love to talk about it. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:16:33 +0800 From: Stuart Jackson Subject: Polyester Bride Video Online MTV has a clip of the video http://www.mtv.com/mtv/video/clips/p/phair.liz/polyester.mov Stuart. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:47:58 EDT From: Gabepet@aol.com Subject: My answer to Dan's question Dan asks why it is that Liz gets rockin reviews but no air-play (to put it into one sentence). I think that the reason is that reviewers are paid to know about music. They have been hired because somebody was impressed with their musical knowledge, writing, or who they know. As much as I've seen good reviews for crappy albums only to find a full-page ad for that album in the same magazine, I don't think their is much of an opposite effect. Liz Phair makes amazing music but she doesn't fit the mold (or try to, it seems) that makes these types famous. She has stayed with Matador when I'm sure that any of the big labels would have her and then plug her music as much as possible. Another thing is that MTV and VH1 have contracts with record companies which roughly say 'we'll let you play Mariah Carey's new video but you will also have to play these new bands as well.' (There's a decent book called Monopoly Television that talks all about the business). This means that MTV is playing the standard favorites to hold onto their viewers along with putting in these new bands that they are obligated to play and it leaves very little room to then play a new video by a different band (which is why you'll see it at 1am but not 4pm). This is especially true since MTV is almost always shows as opposed to videos now anyway. Finally, I think you answer your own question by asking why the Backstreet Boys can be the biggest rage and Liz Phair drops like a rock in the charts. Look at the Backstreet Boys and then look at Liz Phair. Thankfully, I see nothing in common. I think we can take pleasure in seeing that when it's not commercial, she is respected and even praised. You're not going to hear Backstreet Boys on a promo for Nova or the other random places that she pops up, except maybe Melrose Place :). The theme among all the places you hear her is that it's always a place where good music will improve what they're trying to do. Well, I figure Dan was probably just ranting but I decided to answer it seriously anyway. I've found that the one thing that I learned in college was to make the smallest idea 10 pages long so I tried to keep this brief but I think I failed. Take care, Gabe As an aside, I have been really impressed with the diversity and quality of the bands that everyone's listing. Very cool. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:33:10 -0400 From: "Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" Subject: [none] Not at first, although Peter Tork and Mike Nesmith where able to play several instruments at the auditions. And then later on in the band's career, Mickey Dolenz and even Davey Jones learned to play more instruments. And although most of their hits were written by other people, they did start writing their own stuff on later releases. But this was after Mike Nesmith's big blowup with the record company, and after the show went off the air. As big a fan as I am of the Monkees, I gotta agree with you Eric on this call. Especially since the Monkees were a fabricated band initially created for TV as "The American Beatles" ala "Help" and "Hard Day's Night". PS Can't find it now, but to who ever quoted Pretender's "Precious", the line is actually "Not me baby I had to fuck off" not just "fuck off". Mike Connolly Va Beach (I moved yesterday) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:43:33 -0400 (EDT) From: kiskos@webtv.net (Edward Kisko) Subject: Re: support-system-digest V1 #24 "Crimson and Clover" is a song by Tommy James and the Shondells, and it's from the late 60s or early 70s. Joan Jett may have covered it, but it's not her song. By the way, I've never heard Jett's version, but the original is god-awful. Sooo annoying. Thanks to Dan for saying the things about Sheryl Crow that I would have said in my last post had I put more thought into it... Sheryl's new record (which I bought yesterday) is good and will no doubt please fans. It's weird in some spots, and her voice is considerably rougher and phelgmier.... always a good thing. Thanks to Jimmy for passing on the url of that seattle article... I enjoyed it a lot, but I wish it would've been longer. In it Liz says that she doesn't worry about being 'super-popular' anymore, so I'm starting to wonder if she really is serious about this whole 'rock star' thing (the professional-looking liner notes, the glossy new video, Lilith Fair)... I have to say that while I don't wish destitution on her in 10 years, I don't hope that she becomes a huge star, either... People who are just too smart and cool for their own good are usually not ever appreciated as much as they should be by the general public. And as accessible as *spaceegg* is, it's just too weird, too 'alternative' (really) to ever be a top ten thing... anyway, the general public is not smart enough or musically-aware enough to realize the greatness that is Liz Phair. I mean that. I recorded "PolyBride" last Sunday from MTV (I haven't been watching Vh1 though -- did they really show it as promised?) and while I hated it at first (for reasons too lengthy to get into), I now think that it's pretty cool. It's just weird enough to be a Liz video (who directed it, though? Matador would have the answer to that one... whoever did, I'm sure Liz was heavily involved in the process, you can just tell). I like the old film footage (it's not as corny as some people think). What I've come up with is that the 'egg' imagery goes along with the moral, if you will, of the song: You've got time, don't rush into anything. You have to wait for an egg to hatch (much like you have to wait for a relationship to develop), you can't just go cracking it open prematurely, exposing the gory, could-have-been contents inside (much like a person does in one of the funny scenes from the video). Just my interpretation... btw, is that Nick in the crib? Those of you who give Liz's quotes along with yr setlists are my heroes... I'll do the same when I get back from my upcoming shows, Philly and Toronto. I can't wait... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:08:12 EDT From: Whiipsmart@aol.com Subject: Re: A Problem with Liz?? shhhhh.. he told me not to tell anyone, but i convinced this guy in austin to sell me the cd 12 minutes before midnight. they made it seem as if they were selling me crack or something. if' i'd been home i could have had it 45 minutes before that.. god bless virgin mega store.. open till 1 everynight.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:58:22 -0400 From: Ben_Radlinski@CFOPUB.COM Subject: Music News of the World and the Liz Show I really enjoy the first line... When is the music press going to drop this "sexually explicit" artist crap? Liz Phair Gets Upbeat And Personal With Crowd Sexually explicit singer/songwriter delivered an intimate performance in support of whitechocolatespaceegg. Contributing Editor Teri vanHorn reports: LOS ANGELES -- In a way, the mood established onstage just before Liz Phair's set-opener was the exact opposite of what was to come. There was a mystique in the image of Phair's shadow taking shape on the closed, white curtain as the Mayan Theatre's stage lights brightened. With the shape of a guitar neck extending from its centerpoint, the silhouette was almost iconic, like a symbol of a rock performer as a mythic, superhuman figure. But as the curtain opened, revealing the woman behind it, the air of mystery immediately dissolved. The real Phair, wearing a long dress with sections of white, brown and black, appeared much smaller than her shadow. And as she launched into "Explain It To Me," from her 1993 debut album, Exile in Guyville, Phair smiled shyly, less a stagy, overblown rock star than a bona-fide girl-next-door. From that point on, the evening's real mood was set. Phair's one-hour show Thursday night at the beautiful downtown theater had an intimate, personal feel throughout, with the singer/songwriter -- who's known for her confessional and frank lyrics -- exuding a friendly, playful vibe. At one point, she wished a fan happy birthday; at another, she engaged in a brief conversation with a man on the upstage balcony about a mutual friend. "Does she still live in San Francisco?" Phair asked the balcony guy. "Tell her I said hi." "She's charming and she's genuine, which is refreshing," red-haired 31-year-old concert-goer Christa Clark said after the show. "Her stage demeanor reflects the honesty of her lyrics," agreed Mark Owens, 25, of Newport Beach, Calif. The night's intimate feel was established even prior to Phair and her four-piece backup band taking the stage. For a full half-hour, slides picturing Phair in a variety of private settings and poses were projected onto a white curtain at the back of the stage. Though the idea seemed more than a little self-indulgent, it did serve the purpose of establishing the night's mood and setting the tone for the carefully choreographed staging and lighting to come. Phair opted for more of an upbeat show instead of predominately relying on her ballad-heavy new album, whitechocolatespaceegg. While she played six songs from the new release, she drew liberally from the more rocking Exile in Guyville, as well as taking three excerpts from 1996's Whip-Smart. The first new song that Phair played was the fourth number of the night, "White Chocolate Space Egg." With the back curtain shaded by blue and gray lights, the song carried a moody feel as the band sustained a somewhat drony sonic backdrop to Phair's spoken/sung vocals. The skillful backup band had its best moment on Phair's 1996 hit "Supernova." With disco balls twirling on either corner of the stage, the performance exuded an intense, neo-retro vibe. That feel was sustained in the next number, "What Makes You Happy," the chorus of which featured '70s-style wah-wah guitars. Before playing the raunchy number "Flower," from Exile, Phair accepted a bouquet of flowers from a frontline fan, saying in a girlish tone, "I'll take a flower." Then, as she and her background singer co-delivered the vocals -- which includes the lyric about "a cunt in the spring" as well as the threat to "suck you 'til your dick turns blue" -- images of butterflies and flowers were projected onto the back curtain. For an encore, Phair delivered an intimate, solo rendition of the beautiful girl-and-guitar ballad "Perfect World" (RealAudio excerpt). The band then rejoined her for a rollicking finale that began with Phair asking the audience, teasingly, "What's that? 'Duck and Run ... Suck and Come'?" before kicking into her debut disc's angry "Fuck and Run" (RealAudio excerpt) against a backdrop of red stars twirling inside bright-white circles. It was a far different Phair than the stage-shy performer from years past. As the song drew to a close, a guitar-less Phair got even looser with a goofy-looking, flamboyant dance, hopping while flapping her hands through the air. Meanwhile, a female fan in the crowd mimicked Phair's motions, working her way through the venue's entire bottom-floor as she danced. "I had a really weird experience because I'm not used to sharing her," said the fan, 39-year-old Amy Died, after the show. "I feel like I have an intimate relationship with her because I'm a sculptor and I listen to her while I work. It was just odd hearing other people get into 'Fuck and Run.' " ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:30:16 -0400 From: "Connolly, Michael EMC RSG" Subject: [none] >Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:37:39 +1000 >From: Sally Johnstone >Subject: Crimson & Clover >Someone was asking what this was a ref to - it's a Joan Jett & the Blackhearts song which came out in the early eighties. < ...which is a cover of the Tommy James and the Shondells single, which came out twenty years earlier. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:47:08 PDT From: "melissa s" Subject: Please help me. Oh please, please, please. If anybody has three extra tickets (or any at all) to the October 8th show at the Roseland in New York, pleeeeeeeeease email me as soon as possible! I'm pretty desperate, if you can help me out, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:51:02 -0700 From: Beau Subject: mbe I just got an e-mail from KCRW. The MBE show (the recent one; they ignored my question about her old one) will be up later this week and, of course, linked at my phair play site when that happens. For those of you who aren't lucky enough to hear the show (there's a reason why MBE is a legend; I was so thrilled to move to California and discover the show was all that), she played two wcse tunes, one from W-S and one from EIG. The interview was pretty good, but host Nic Harcourt was shamefully uninformed about Liz. But it was a good show overall, 30 minutes long. Download RealAudio now if you haven't already. BEAU http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Boardwalk/5812/lizphair.html "The six-dick pimp Is just doin' his job, Tryin' to keep the business From goin' under ... I don't care how long it takes, I don't care how much money he makes. I just want my baby back And I'll be on my way." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 12:34:49 From: "Stacey Wirt" Subject: different covers??? Hey folks! Well I was just visiting www.massmusic.com to get my copy of the import WCSE, and I checked out the regular version too. But here's what I don't understand.... They have two different versions of WCSE listed, one with an "explicit cover" one with a "clean cover". WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????? Are there two different cd photos or something? or does this just mean that one version is edited?? HELP!! somebody please tell me what's going on!! - -Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:46:05 PDT From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: Stuff So.... Becky. >lots of chicks and lots of >canadians. i guess canadian chicks rock. >becky ..But no Weeping Tile? C'mon, rocking Canuck chicks at their best. anyway, as everyone is giving lists of likes, here's mine, exc. Liz Robyn Hitchcock R.E.M. Jayhawks Buffalo Tom Uncle Tupelo (inc. Wilco & Son Volt) Baby Bird Weeping Tile Lullaby For the Working Class Blue Mountain Dinosaur Jr. Yo La Tengo Golden Smog James Grand Drive Mojave 3 and it goes on.... ALSO.. WCSE is going to be released in the UK early next year, and hopefully Liz will tour the UK at the time. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:57:43 -0700 From: "Heather Coleman" Subject: old concert garb I wonder if anyone on the list saw Liz in concert in her EIG/WS days and can report on how she dressed then. The one newspaper article I read at that time said something about halter tops and looking like she emerged from a trailer park. In this concert, she looked like anybody's suburban sister (or what such might aspire to): tan, trim, very blonde, barretted. I mean, I think it's fine to play with different images or enjoy dressing up, and she's said something about singing sweetly or looking sweet but having these raunchy lyrics as a concious contrast. But I'm curious. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 10:13:25 -0800 From: vjohns@acad.com Subject: Seattle Show Liz played Stratford-on-Guy in Seattle!? I am so jealous! That's all, Valerie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tiffany M Wilson Subject: crimson and radio Hey all, I'm a little behind on my reading the digests, but I was skimming the most recent one and saw someone mention that "crimson and clover" was a reference to a song from the eighties, but the phrase goes back to a song from the sixties, that goes "crimson and clover, over and over..." Just thought I'd add that. My top ten artists (excluding Liz): The Replacements Sleater-Kinney Sonic Youth New Order/Joy Division Pavement Yo La Tengo The Cramps Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers Any Lou Barlow incarnation X On a related note, I play all these bands on my radio show, which you can listen to on real audio. Go to www.wpts.pitt.edu between 1am and 3am on EARLY monday mornings... - -Tiff "If I ever pay you back, if my money and wallet's in tact, I'll probably be in a box lying down, loosely suited in black..." -Liz Phair "Little girl keeps growing up, playing makeup, wearing guitar..." -Paul Westerberg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:49:50 PDT From: "Dolphin 95" Subject: Re: song w/piano, keyboard I noticed an omission in the "keyboard bass" section in Katie's list- "Nashville" has a very noticeable part, and it's listed in the credits, too! - -Jeff ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:43:34 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: different covers??? >Hey folks! > > Well I was just visiting www.massmusic.com to get my copy >of the import WCSE, and I checked out the regular version >too. But here's what I don't understand.... They have two >different versions of WCSE listed, one with an "explicit >cover" one with a "clean cover". WHAT DOES THIS MEAN????? >Are there two different cd photos or something? or does >this just mean that one version is edited?? >HELP!! somebody please tell me what's going on!! > >-Stacey The only difference between the two versions is that the clean version doesn't spell "Shitloads of Money" out in full on the back cover, but prints it as something like "S***loads of Money" instead. That's the only difference between the two versions, and it's presumably so that the Wal-Marts of the world will stock the album. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:46:27 -0000 From: "Colin O'Connor" Subject: Responses >>Anyway, it's nice to see Colin is from Arizona. Any other Liz fans from >>here? I don't know one single person that listens to her and sometimes I >>go crazy not being able to discuss it. E-mail me if you're from Arizona. >>If anybody knows when Liz will be coming to Tucson or anywher nearby, >>please let me know. I saw her at Lilith in Phoenix and it left me >>wanting more, of course. AHHHH! Another Liz fan from Tucson! And a fan of the Afghan Whigs at that! Where have you been all my life! Now if only you were 20, female, and single. Judging by the name Ian I gather that's not the case. Oh well. Email me if you want to talk about the bleak musical desert that is Tucson. That makes three Liz fans from Arizona so far... >>Oh, yeah and to the guy who made the crack about REM and Nirvana not >>being technically adept -- perhaps you should go listen to Murmur, >>Automatic for the People and Nevermind and re-think that. Sorry, I >>know its not a Liz thing, but I couldn't let a statement like that go. That would be me, and I'm the last person trying to take a crack at REM or Nirvana. These are two of my favorite bands in the world we're talking about. Murmur used to be my favorite album until I heard Exile from Guyville and it still ranks way up there among my favorites. I would vote for Automatic for the People, or Pearl Jam's Ten as Album of the Decade, and what hasn't been said about Nirvana? These two bands and Liz are probably the best SONGWRITERS I've ever heard. But that doesn't necessarily change the fact that their stuff is not very hard to play. These three examples are proof positive that the most amazing songs don't require them to be hard to play (Trying to convince my roomate of that is hard - he is a classical guitarist and to him everything is crap unless he can't play it). In every interview with Peter Buck, he always talks about how naive he was when REM made Murmur, and how his definition of a good song back then was one with 12 different chords in it. Murmur must have 50 different chords in the whole album, surely a record, but I can play every song on it and I am not a good guitarist. Every REM album since has been the same garage-band chords used in new and ever-more-innovative ways. But I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of REM songs I can't play - - and trust me - I've played all of them at one time or another. The same goes for Nirvana - half of their songs are the stereotypical three-chord combos. My point is that I wasn't trying to denigrate these artists in any way. In a way I see keeping songs simple and untechnical as an asset - the ability to cut through all of the stuff that may be fun to play but doesn't add much to a song - REM and Liz have both said interviews that they would much rather add a new bridge to a song rather than a drawn-out guitar solo. It's just a different style. At the other end of the scale there is someone like Matthew Sweet, who ranks up there with the Beatles as one of the best pop-guitarists ever. His stuff is amazingly technical and damn hard to play, and I marvel at the sound of some of it. But at the end of the day I think REM and Nirvana and Liz's stuff is probably better than Matthew Sweet if only because they cut through all of that to the heart of the good song underneath - to paraphase Liz: They won't decorate their songs, at least not extraneously. Anyway, sorry for the tirade on non-Liz stuff, but I think some of it relates. It goes to the heart of why Liz is so good. Her songs are so uncluttered that often they come out sounding as mini-anthems to whatever point they're putting across. That's becoming less true with her newer stuff, but she retains this amazing songwriting ability. It's unfortunate that some of her stuff is not more radio-friendly. That is definately not an asset I care about - most of my favorite songs would never be on the radio - but I wish more people understood her quiet genius. Colin O'Connor University of Arizona "What satisfaction is left when all you do tells everyone you're acting untrue?" - Liz Phair ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:57:44 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: um.....Liz? what else?! Well, there's a lot of things I'd like to respond to and it's mostly to people who posted something. Chuck - cool! I'll try to make sure that I'm my best behavior in case they decide to check us out! =x (no cussing) Victoria - I like Billy Joel too! Robbie - thanks for the info about the import cd, I'll check that out. Eric - can I marry you? (just kidding! LOL) Dan - about getting more airplay for Liz, I was in the same situation when I called my local station asking if they'd play Liz. Here's what they said: Polyester Bride is a dirty song. (what?) I don't know why we don't play Liz Phair. Liz who? Excuuuuuse me?! I kept asking why they don't play her and the guy kept saying the same thing. So, I left them alone and have been listening to them a lot less than I used to. I even sent them an e-mail to play her and they haven't played her still. Well, as far as Liz getting more airplay, I don't know what to say, other than I have to consider her an underground artist. Underground artist, meaning she has a lot of fans following her, plays at small venues and hardly gets any airplay. I adopted this term from a friend of mine who was talking about Less Than Jake and I had no idea who they were. She said they were an underground group. The more I think of it, it Liz does kinda fall into this category because both LTJ and Liz don't get any airplay and blah blah...my definition for underground artist. So, what does everyone else think? Thanks for whoever invited me over to their house to watch the show, thanks, but I live FL and my evenings are quite tied up. I've been offered by some people who were kind enough to send me a video, so I'd like to thank them too! ();) I know I've mentioned this before, but I didn't get much response to it. A friend of mine from Seattle scanned me an article of Liz and sent it to me. I'll share it with anyone who would like to have it. She's also working on scanning the review for me and said that the review isn't all that great. Of course, it's better to hear what a devoted fan has to say about the concert than some stuck up person who goes to collect a pay check. Another line before I go, I had MTV on to see if the Liz video would pop up, and no luck. I wonder if they did that just to make us happy. Katie ():) "all that matters is what makes you happy" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:17:36 -0700 From: Jason Stone Subject: A liz refreshner Hey here's an idea for anybody who has a CD changer and a casette deck. Put in all of the Liz CDs you have, put the CD player on shuffle and record it. Then put the tape in your walkman or car or even your stereo and it's like having another Liz album. Kind of like a random greatest hits. It really makes the songs fresh again after expecting the usual next song to follow and it changes to something else. On my tape the transition from "Dead Shark" to "Headache" is especially weird. "Go West" started my tape. Try it, it's pretty cool. Also, if you're a Neil Young fan, please e-mail me. I don't want to bore anybody in public. From, Jason (in Arizona) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:41:54 EDT From: Breadnb@aol.com Subject: fave bands/fave liz songs alrighty.. here are some of my favorite bands in no particular order (well except for the obvious :) LIZ PHAIR korn pizzicato five garbage hole rage against the machine overcast green day the breeders earth crisis veruca salt shadows fall beastie boys vision of disorder did i mention LIZ PHAIR? now my top 10 favorite liz songs are... 1. shatter 2. headache 3. polyester bride 4. batmobile 5. cinco de mayo 6. fuck and run 7. crater lake 8. jealousy 9. never said 10. mesmerizing just thought y'all would maybe like to know. ;) later, lins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:41:55 -0700 From: "Eric Schuman" Subject: crimson and clover Actually, Joan Jett didn't write it but just covered it. It is an older song from the 60's I believe.Eric > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:37:39 +1000 > From: Sally Johnstone > Subject: Crimson & Clover > > Someone was asking what this was a ref to - it's a Joan Jett & the Blackhearts song which came out in the early eighties. > > Cheers > Sally > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 17:01:49 -0400 From: dbickin@ibm.net Subject: Re: Crimson & Clover >From: Sally Johnstone >Subject: Crimson & Clover > >Someone was asking what this was a ref to - it's a Joan Jett & the Blackhearts >song which came out in the early eighties. > >Cheers >Sally Actually, Joan Jett covered the song. It was first put out by Tommy James and the Shondells probably in the early 70's (maybe late 60's.) I really liked the song back when I was a wee little lad. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:54:33 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: massmusic.com????? I went to Massmusic.com earlier and must have spent a good half an hour trying to find Liz and it kept coming up w/ no search match. I hope someone can help me out this one. Katie ():) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:02:51 EDT From: AngelLieb@aol.com Subject: Don't worry about it Geez! How in the world could I be soooo stupid?! Don't worry about it family, I found Liz on Massmusic.com! ():) Katie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:45:13 PDT From: "katie beach" Subject: fave artists okay, okay. so everyone is probably tired of seeing long lists of artists, but i've really enjoyed reading them and wanted to add my two cents. don't fret, i'll keep it short: liz (duh) sleater-kinney elliott smith mary lou lord quasi verve hole and many, many more. katie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:53:43 -0400 From: "David Perry" Subject: Too Little, Too Late? (Note for Jason: Forgot to check the last message to make sure it wasn't HTML, sorry. Hopefully this one should be ok.) In response to Dan, talking about why Liz isn't popular, I'd throw out three possible reasons for what's going on here. a.) I'm not sure, as I've said before, that Matador is really cut out for producing big-time acts. All of the bands they have are these kind of quirky groups that really aren't likely to strike it big with the masses. I guess this served her well at the beginning, because it meant they were willing to sign her and pay her relatively well for a rookie (particularly in those pre-Alanis days). But you do have to wonder whether their hearts are really into the big time music game, or if they're capable of orchestrating the publicity campaign needed to do it. Also, I don't know what Capitol's exact deal with Matador is, but I wonder if they're motivated to promote Matador albums as much as they do their own. I can recall seeing exactly one magazine ad for WCSE in Rolling Stone; no TV, no radio, no nada. The airplay thing is curious. I've heard her very little here in Philly, but some of you say she's been on a lot in your hometowns. I can't explain that very well. . .As much as I hate to say it, maybe Matador should pay one of the big radio companies some money to get the songs some airplay. b.) Obviously, the four years delay didn't help either. Not, of course, that she didn't have good reasons for it, but never the less. . . I've never heard of any artist/band having that big a pause that early in their career and hitting it really big. You can't afford to disappear until you've established your fan base; there's just too much competition for that. If Matador really did object to the first version of the album, it was a really stupid move on their part; beyond the fact (IMHO) that it probably would have been a better album, at that point, she just needed to get something out. c.) This is going to get me yelled at, but I just don't think this album is quite as good as her previous work. In particular, quite a few of the songs ("WCSE", "Big Tall Man", and "Only Son" come to mind) aren't really very distinctive; they sound like things that a lot of other people are doing. You and I may like them better than other singers, but you gotta figure that a lot of other people who aren't true believers are going to say "I've heard this already." Say what you will about Whip-Smart, you couldn't confuse it for anyone else. That was where Matador really blew it; how "Supernova" and "Jealousy" did not become Top-10 hits is beyond me. Of course, then again, maybe the real reason is just because our heroine's a little too quirky for the average person. After all, she certainly seems to have made a big hit with the pop-culture elites of America, judging from all the great reviews and interviews and sound bites in ads. My God, she's been made the center of a novel! Maybe only special people like us can appreciate her. . .:-) David Perry "Hot, short, impregnable, and freeze-dried" ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V1 #25 ***********************************