From: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org (stillpt-digest) To: stillpt-digest@smoe.org Subject: stillpt-digest V5 #43 Reply-To: stillpt@smoe.org Sender: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-stillpt-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk stillpt-digest Friday, March 7 2003 Volume 05 : Number 043 Today's Subjects: ----------------- a/Release? Salvage? [allenw ] Re: a/Release? Salvage? [allenw ] Re: a/release ["Joseph Zitt" ] Re: a/Release? Salvage? ["Joseph Zitt" ] Re: a/release ["marty" ] Re: a/release ["Berni Phillips" ] Re: a/Release? Salvage? ["Berni Phillips" ] Salvage, w/spoilers [Dawn Friedman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 08:12:15 -0600 (CST) From: allenw Subject: a/Release? Salvage? All of the episode lists I've seen say that last night's Angel episode was "Salvage," with "Release" airing next week. On the other hand, it may make more sense the other way around. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:48:58 -0600 (CST) From: allenw Subject: Re: a/Release? Salvage? Spoilers for last night's Angel, which as previously noted I think was actually titled "Salvage": . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . My Grand Unified Lilah/Beast/Cordy Theory: So. Lilah's dead. Really most sincerely dead, unless we're being misled (we didn't *see* the head come off, after all). However, assuming that she's dead, even further assuming that the character is gone for good, that can't be all that there is to her story (discounting future appearances as the First; and I don't think that was the First as Lilah last night, because Wesley saw/imagined her actually getting up from the table, not just standing around next to her body (though that also happened)). Too many loose ends. Why did the Beast stick his finger in Lilah's abdomen, but not kill her? Why did Cordy stab her to death? Why did she use the Beast-bone dagger to do so, and why did the Beast make the dagger for Cordy in the first place, especially considering that it seems to have been the one weapon that could kill it, and that doesn't seem to have been part of Cordy's plan? And Cordy's evil and pregnant. Really most sincerely pregnant, moreso than should be possible if Connor is the father (though Cordy has a history of short pregnancies). And she's been (at least) kissing the Beast, but he lacks obvious external genitalia. Unless it's the dagger... So. My theory: I think the baby is, in some sense, Lilah's. Possibly Lilah and Wesley's, in fact. The Beast extracted either an egg (probably fertilized by Wesley) or else the "essence" of such a child from Lilah at W&H. Making the dagger, giving it to Cordy, and Cordy stabbing Lilah with it was part of some ritual to transfer/implant the child into Cordy. The dagger *must* have been vitally important to the Evil Plan, otherwise making it in the first place was DEEPLY stupid, as noted above. Granted, leaving it lying around the warehouse wasn't too bright either... Anyway, that's my theory; comments? I'm not at all sure it's correct, but if not, I hope something else equally twisted is going on, and that it's not just a case of M.E. dropping plot threads and changing things at the last minute to deal with Buffy ending. allen w. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:44:55 -0800 From: "Joseph Zitt" Subject: Re: a/release - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald G. Keller" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 8:02 PM Subject: a/release > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Here, in an action-movie > cliche, Faith simply breaks the glass (and then jumps out a window, Wesley > in tow)? Yeah, I got tangled on my suspenders of disbelief on that one. Slayer powers or no, I found it really hard to belief Faith breaking through *that* glass so easily, or Wesley emerging from that fall without any injury. But the rest of the episode was quite spiffy. It was pleasing to see Faith to be apparently solidly on The Side of Good (though we had thought that about Cordelia until recently, too) but with the badass edge. (And did she mindmeld with Xander to get all that military jargon?) BTW, it was a double-whammy for me last night, since I finally got to see "Conversations with Dead People". Wow, one of the stronger episodes --though it would have hit harder had the plot events been surprises if I had seen it in sequences. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:54:10 -0800 From: "Joseph Zitt" Subject: Re: a/Release? Salvage? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "allenw" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: Re: a/Release? Salvage? > Spoilers for last night's Angel, which as previously noted I think was > actually titled "Salvage": > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > The dagger *must* > have been vitally important to the Evil Plan, otherwise making it in the > first place was DEEPLY stupid, as noted above. One possible plan for the dagger: it was indeed the only thing that could destroy the Beast. The Beastmaster(?) demanded it as sacrifice from the Beast, as a sign of obedience. Leaving the dagger lying around wasn't too swift, but the Beast, despite his stentorian tones and Biblical language, seems more of a thrash'n'trasher than a great intellect. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 16:44:12 -0800 From: "marty" Subject: Re: a/release > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > Faith! > > (Repeat until screen is full, program. Points for ref ID.) > > Enough spoiler space? > > Gonna be interesting when the truth comes out that it wasn't Faith who did > in the Beast (who died very much like in Angel's fantasy, right?). Yah know, that sequence made me wonder if Angel isn't back. He really hasn't killed anyone, just a vampire or two. He pretended to be Angelus some time ago, and the song for Lorne ...um. Another interesting thing. When Lilah was standing beside her corpse she was wearing the same outfit that the prison women wore. Better tailored, but the same. NOT what the corpse was wearing. A bit of continuity problem, when Faith emerged from the door, the blouse neck was high. When she was excercising, the neck was a scoop. > So I'm guessing that the Beast is the father, yes? I agree with that. Cordy needs to get Connor back under her control. Notice that the beast called her boss? AND, it was slurred, but the beast referred to his boss as "her" once. You all have been spoiled as to who is playing the boss, right? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:40:41 -0800 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: a/release From: "Todd Huff" > --- "Donald G. Keller" wrote: > > Faith! > > > > Faith! > > > > Faith! > > > > Faith! > > > > Faith! > > > > Faith! > > > > Faith! > > > > (Repeat until screen is full, program. Points for > > ref ID.) > > > > Enough spoiler space? > > > > Of course we all noticed what kind of knife the > attacker was using, didn't we? Hard to sneak Bringers > into the prison, I'm guessing. Thanks. I wasn't sure whose knife it was. > > There were other good things in the episode: the > > complication of what > > Cordelia is up to is making double-reading scenes > > where she's with the > > rest of the crew very interesting; and the scenes > > with Wesley and Lilah's > > "ghost" were very well done. Yes, very fine. > So was the ghost in Wes's head or was the First paying > a visit to L.A.? Very ironic if so. If she hadn't > talked about redemption would Wes have thought about > Faith? I thought this was all stuff going on in Wes's head. > I'm wondering if Angelus' call to Dawn will show up on > Buffy in a few weeks. I think it will. The line following that call was my favorite in the episode. After establishing from Dawn that Buffy was home (and promptly hanging up on her!), I loved the way he delivered the line, "It's the =other= one." Berni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:46:00 -0800 From: "Berni Phillips" Subject: Re: a/Release? Salvage? From: "allenw" > All of the episode lists I've seen say that last night's Angel episode > was "Salvage," with "Release" airing next week. On the other hand, it may > make more sense the other way around. Our local newspaper gives the titles and it said "Salvage." And remember, Faith specifically called it a salvage mission when they went out to fight Angelus. Berni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2003 21:49:59 -0500 From: Dawn Friedman Subject: Salvage, w/spoilers Faith, oh yes... At 05:40 PM 3/6/2003 -0800, Berni wrote: >The line following that call was my favorite in the episode. After >establishing from Dawn that Buffy was home (and promptly hanging up on >her!), I loved the way he delivered the line, "It's the =other= one." Yes, yes, yes! Actually, the hangup was my favorite 'line' in the episode. It's clear Angelus has learned from past mistakes. (In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he's read the Things I Won't Do When I Am An Evil Overlord list.) No self-destructive obsession with Buffy here. The Sunnydale gang is unnecessary trouble, and he's just out to have a good time. It's so refreshing. I also got a kick out of the funny faces Cordy was making when no one was looking. Connor was bright enough to sense something wrong with Cordy. Good for him. Too bad he's an adolescent boy.... I breezily overlooked Faith's escape, being too busy reveling in the interaction between Faith and Wesley. The instant mutual appreciation. Mind you, I loved Lilah and hate to see her go, but oh my, does Faith look different to him post-Lilah. All that broken glass was worthwhile just for that "Five by five." dawn ------------------------------ End of stillpt-digest V5 #43 ****************************